Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

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Zaune
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by Zaune »

That's why they're supposedly going over to a rolling release schedule; if the license terms have leaked yet I haven't seen them, but apparently from Win 10 onwards we're all getting n years of free updates to a new OS iteration every n years. Linux has been doing this for years, and it's probably only taken MS this long to think of it because of the aforementioned Vista debacle and the fact that we've only just reached the point of diminishing returns on buying new hardware every three to five years at the end-user level.
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by Edi »

Grumman wrote:
TheFeniX wrote:Windows 8's problem(s) is that it was a better operating system, just not "better enough." It's basically just a flat-out better OS than Windows 7, but it's also hamstrung by hiding all that goodness under a GUI designed for a 5-year-old. Even now, it's really not a "sit at my desk and get shit done" operating system.

They finally (with Windows 10) have an Operating System that Windows 8 should have been (Windows 7, but better in every way). Pretty sure the hardware requirements are the same for 10 as they are for 7, and that's actually impressive, at least to me. A shame about how I'm now spending time cutting out the spying bullshit. Aside from that, and the bullshit with the VPN, I've got no regrets on W10. Like, just the W10 GUI tacked on to W8 would have shut-up 99% of the complaints about the Operating System.
Please consider what you are saying. The problem with Windows 8 is not that it was "not better enough", and Windows 10 is not "better in every way" than Windows 7. An OS that forces you to spend time disabling built-in spyware is worse in at least one way than one that does not.
Google "Windows 7 snooping updates" and then go and look at all ths shit that you have to first remove, then hide, to get rid of. all of it is billed as compatibility updates without much in the way of details. If you installed everything Windows Update throws at you, your Win7 is just as intrusive as Win10, but without telling you.
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by TheFeniX »

Grumman wrote:Please consider what you are saying. The problem with Windows 8 is not that it was "not better enough",
It's a part of why 7 sees over 50% representation in business and Vista sees around 1% and 8 at 10%. Windows 8 does everything 7 does, does it faster. Everything you need is there, just hidden under Metro.

But the real issue is hardware doesn't get obsolete like it used to. Your primary business applications are Office and other stuff like Acrobat. That will cover 90% of what the average business users deals with. Those programs have bloated up to about what they are ever going to. So there's a certain diminishing returns (like what Zaune talked about) on PC hardware: once you're there, there's no reason to replace it, failures aside. And since 7 just does the job so god-damn well, there's no reason for business users to not just keep their 7 licenses and have everyone on the same OS. With OEMs almost all offering W7 Pro in lieu of 8, Windows 8 didn't stand a chance even without Metro. Windows 7 is just that good and 8 isn't good enough to consider splitting your workstations across multiple OSs.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the W7 (or W10) desktop had come with Windows 8.
and Windows 10 is not "better in every way" than Windows 7. An OS that forces you to spend time disabling built-in spyware is worse in at least one way than one that does not.
The spying bullshit is a red herring: I'm talking about performance. From a home users perspective: most people do not care about that shit. They already let Facebook sell all their personal details, MS doing it isn't going to faze them. Also of note, there are numerous QoL improvements W10 has over both 7 and 8. Homegroup in 7 was always a crapshoot. My two W7 desktops would constantly lose their connection, or be connected yet not allow any file/printer sharing. This is a non-issue in W8/10. W10 is even faster than 8 on equal hardware and cleaned up a lot of issues with the GUI (display scaling, just for one).

MS's biggest fuck-up with was not holding off on all the telemetry updates until after everyone got suckered into W10.
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by Wild Zontargs »

This is starting to sound really dodgy:
Forbes: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped wrote:Speaking to PC World, Microsoft Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore explained that Windows 10 is constantly tracking how it operates and how you are using it and sending that information back to Microsoft by default. More importantly he also confirmed that, despite offering some options to turn elements of tracking off, core data collection simply cannot be stopped:

“In the cases where we’ve not provided options, we feel that those things have to do with the health of the system,” he said. “In the case of knowing that our system that we’ve created is crashing, or is having serious performance problems, we view that as so helpful to the ecosystem and so not an issue of personal privacy, that today we collect that data so that we make that experience better for everyone.”

This backs up detailed data that some had chosen to dismiss as conspiracy theories.

[...]

So how concerned should users be about Windows 10’s default data collection policies? I would say very.

By default Windows 10 Home is allowed to control your bandwidth usage, install any software it wants whenever it wants (without providing detailed information on what these updates do), display ads in the Start Menu (currently it has been limited to app advertisements), send your hardware details and any changes you make to Microsoft and even log your browser history and keystrokes which the Windows End User Licence Agreement (EULA) states you allow Microsoft to use for analysis.

The good news: even if Belfiore states you cannot switch off everything, editing your privacy settings will disable the worst of these. To find them open the Start menu > Settings > Privacy.

The bad news: despite Belfiore’s pledge “to continue to listen”, Microsoft’s actions (including the impending Windows 7 and Windows 8 upgrade pressure) suggests the company’s recent love for Big Brother tactics is only going to get worse before it gets better…
Forbes: Microsoft Makes Windows 10 Upgrades Automatic For Windows 7 And Windows 8 wrote:In September Microsoft admitted it is downloading Windows 10 on every Windows 7 and Windows 8 computer. Then in October it claimed an ‘accident’ saw these downloads begin installing without user permission. Well this accident now looks to have been a secret test run because Microsoft has confirmed mass upgrades to Windows 10 from all Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers are about to begin…

In a post to the official Windows blog, Windows and Devices Group executive vice president Terry Myerson announced this will be a two step process:

Step One

Beginning now, Windows 10 has been reclassified as an “Optional” update in Windows Update for Windows 7 and Windows 8 computers. This means users who have set their version of Windows to accept all updates will find the Windows 10 installation process will begin automatically and they will need to actively cancel it.

“Windows Update is the trusted, logical location for our most important updates, and adding Windows 10 here is another way we will make it easy for you to find your upgrade” says Myerson.

Step Two

But in “early” 2016 things will become more aggressive and Microsoft will again reclassify Windows 10 as a “Recommended” update. Given the default setting on Windows 7 and Windows 8 is for all Recommended updates to install automatically this means the vast majority of users will find the Windows 10 install process starts up on their machines.

“Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device,” admits Myerson.

Opt-Out Becomes The New Opt-In

The end result is a dramatic change of focus. While users will still be able to cancel the Windows 10 installation process, it means proactive effort will now be required to stop the upgrade as opposed to proactive agreement to start it.

Given Windows 10’s status will remain as a Recommended Update, however, it means even those who proactively stop it are likely to find the install process initiating every time new Recommended updates appear. The irritation value of this alone is likely to see many concede.

As such the title of Myerson’s post ‘Making it Easier to Upgrade to Windows 10’ is something of a double edged sword because it could equally be titled: ‘Making it Harder Not to Upgrade to Windows 10’.

Myerson does have a bone to throw users though: computers which upgrade to Windows 10 will get a 31 day window in which to downgrade. He didn’t say whether, once downgraded, the nagging to upgrade would then be stopped.
As an added bonus, commenters on the article say that the downgrade feature doesn't always work, leaving them stuck with Win10 unless they want to do a full re-install:
I tried to rollback Windows 10 back to Windows 7 several weeks after I installed it back in August and the process did not work. I ended up with an error screen that would only let me repair my Windows 10 install, so I wouldn’t count on that working for everyone.
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by Edi »

The Windows 10 upgrade always did have a 30 day period when you could roll back. If you let that go past, rollback becomes impossible and the computer will be stuck with Windows 10. I don't know what MS does with the product keys, but I suspect they will disable the product key for the old system so that any reinstall will have to be for Windows 10.

It also seems that if one wants to fully stop spying, or almost fully, you need a separate firewall with custom rules to block all traffic to Microsoft's spy servers, allowing only Windows Update to work. Or blocking even that by default. Which is a lot more hassle than most users are willing to do, never mind able.
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by Zaune »

Edi wrote:It also seems that if one wants to fully stop spying, or almost fully, you need a separate firewall with custom rules to block all traffic to Microsoft's spy servers, allowing only Windows Update to work. Or blocking even that by default.
Well, sod that for a game of soldiers.
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Re: Microsoft new Windows 10 privacy policy

Post by Wild Zontargs »

If you still don't want Win10, check your settings and consider disabling automatic updates before the next Patch Tuesday. Microsoft is forcibly re-enabling the Win10 update again.
Microsoft has been preparing Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PCs for a more aggressive Windows 10 upgrade strategy that the company will kick off shortly, according to the developer of a tool that blocks such upgrades.

"Over Thanksgiving weekend I started getting reports that the Windows Update 'AllowOSUpgrade' setting was getting flipped back on on a number of peoples' PCs, and it keeps re-setting itself at least once a day if they switch it back off," said Josh Mayfield, the software engineer who created GWX Control Panel. The tool was originally designed to make the "Get Windows 10" (hence GWX) applet go away after Microsoft installed it on consumer and small business Windows 7 and 8.1 PCs starting in March, then activated in June.

"This is new behavior, and it does leave your PC vulnerable to unwanted Windows 10 upgrade behavior," he said.

Mayfield has been tracking Microsoft's various moves since last summer to keep his GWX Control Panel up to date with new features required to block the upgrade from appearing on PCs, and from automatically beginning the install process.

The latest update to GWX Control Panel, which shifted the version number to 1.6, added background monitoring so that users did not have to repeatedly relaunch the app to detect changes in Microsoft's upgrade strategy. Mayfield released GWX Control Panel 1.6 -- which is a free download -- on Nov. 24.

Concurrent with the release of GWX Control Panel 1.6, Mayfield began hearing from users that their PCs were being switched from a "do-not-upgrade-to-Windows-10" status to a "do-upgrade" state, often multiple times daily.

In an interview Friday, Mayfield said that the Windows 10 upgrade setting switcheroo on Windows 7 and 8.1 PCs was apparently due to continued updates that Microsoft has shoved onto the older devices. The Redmond, Wash. company has repeatedly re-served its original GWX app to PCs, often with undocumented changes, even if the machine already had the app, or even if the user had managed to uninstall it previously.

"Microsoft has released this update several times," said Mayfield. "It doesn't change the name of the update, but every version is new, with new binary files."

Also in play, said Mayfield, were updates to the Windows Update client on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PCs that Microsoft has also pushed to customers: Windows Update was refreshed last week for both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1.

Documentation for the Dec. 1 updates to Windows Update did not spell out all the changes, but did state, "This update enables support for additional upgrade scenarios from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and provides a smoother experience when you have to retry an operating system upgrade because of certain failure conditions. This update also improves the ability of Microsoft to monitor the quality of the upgrade experience."

There's more to those updates than that, Mayfield argued. "They're telling [the PC's] Windows Update client that this computer can be upgraded to Windows 10," Mayfield said. "[The Windows Update client] is constantly checking settings several times an hour. It's fully aware of the Windows 10 upgrade."

The Get GWX updates and the more recent refreshes to Windows Update on Windows 7 and 8.1 are running in tandem, Mayfield said. "They're working together," he argued. "They're laying the groundwork for something."

That "something" is likely the next step in an unprecedented scheme by Microsoft to boost adoption of Windows 10.

In late October, Terry Myerson, the Microsoft executive who runs the Windows and devices teams -- dubbed the "More Personal Computing" group -- outlined how Microsoft would try to convince users of Windows 7 and 8.1 to upgrade to Windows 10. Rather than wait for customers running the older editions to request a copy of the new OS -- the original idea from the summer -- Microsoft will instead begin to automatically send the upgrade to PCs via Windows Update, the default security maintenance service.

The new push will be a two-step process, with the first kicking in this year, the second in early 2016. First, Microsoft will add the Windows 10 upgrade to the Windows Update list on Windows 7 and 8.1 systems as an "optional" item. That list can be examined by users, letting them choose -- or not -- each optional update.

Sometime next year, Microsoft will shift the Windows 10 upgrade from optional to the "recommended" list. Updates on that list are automatically downloaded and installed on most PCs.

While the Windows 10 upgrade delivered as a recommended update will automatically begin the installation process, the user will be able to refuse the OS change early in the process. "Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue," Myerson promised in October.

Microsoft is counting on a large portion of users to allow that upgrade to proceed.

Many Windows users, however, are not yet ready to upgrade to Windows 10, and are tired of being bombarded with the nagging messages to change operating systems. That includes Mayfield, who wants to remain on Windows 7, a desire that prompted him to create GWX Control Panel.

Because he's been closely monitoring how Microsoft force-feeds the upgrade to Windows 7 and 8.1 devices -- necessary to keep his app in step with Microsoft's changes -- he's become an expert on what the company has been doing, often surreptitiously, to prepare PCs for Windows 10 and execute its "get-Windows-10" game plan.

By monitoring his own test PCs -- eight all told -- and from the reports he's received from GWX Control Panel users, Mayfield has concluded that Microsoft is manipulating Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PCs with behind-the-scenes changes, part of its effort to ensure Windows 10 ends up on as many devices as possible.

Microsoft's original GWX app, for example, does more than just display an icon in the Windows 7/8.1 taskbar and let customers "reserve" a copy of the Windows 10 upgrade. "It's pushed down three different processes that each had different jobs and were unrelated to the icon," said Mayfield Friday. Currently, his GWX Control Panel monitors 10 different Windows settings that may leave a Windows 7/8.1 PC "potentially vulnerable to unexpected Windows 10 upgrade behavior," Mayfield wrote in a Nov. 26 guide to his app.

Microsoft keeps changing those settings, sometimes adding new ones, without the user knowing, Mayfield said. For example, users have reported that their prior GWX Control Panel settings have been overridden by recent updates from Microsoft. In some cases, even Mayfield has been unable to figure out which components of Windows 7/8.1 were responsible.

It's unknown whether Microsoft has, in fact, begun placing the Windows 10 upgrade on older OS-powered devices as an optional item in Windows Update. Microsoft has declined to provide more information than what Myerson gave out on Oct. 29 about the timetable for the upgrade hitting Windows Update. "We will soon be publishing Windows 10 as an 'Optional Update' in Windows Update for all Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 customers," Myerson said five weeks ago [emphasis added]. "Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a 'Recommended Update.'"

The lack of reports online, including on Microsoft's own Windows 10 support forums, argues that the company has not yet started adding the upgrade to Windows Update on Windows 7/8.1 PCs.

The first move may happen as soon as Tuesday, Dec. 8, which is the month's already-scheduled "Patch Tuesday," the day Microsoft historically serves up security updates. Microsoft often uses Patch Tuesday to deliver other, non-security updates.

In Mayfield's eyes, the background machinations conducted by Microsoft's GWX app and the recent changes to the Windows Update client on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems are clues that the company is preparing for the upgrade reaching the optional list.

The GWX Control Panel app can be downloaded from Mayfield's website. While the app is free, Mayfield does accept donations from appreciative users via PayPal. But he's not getting rich from those donations. "I get a donation from about one in every thousand downloads," he said Friday.

When users allow GXW Control Panel to run in the background, what Mayfield called "Monitor Mode" -- and which debuted in version 1.6 -- the app detects any behind-the-scenes changes Microsoft makes to Windows 7 or 8.1 to grease the wheels for the Windows 10 upgrade. Users can then use GWX to restore the PC's settings to a "do-not-upgrade" state.
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"What you are is abject human trash who is very good at dodging actual rule violations while still being human trash." -- Alyrium Denryle
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