Fallout 4... is coming (10 Nov 2015)

[TheFeniX]

Also, please provide evidence that mods cut sharply into profits. The only profits it cuts into is if you're charging money for what some kid could bang out on his mom's Dell.

Ghetto Edit: Even the Horse Armor DLC for Oblivion made Beth a cool couple million dollars. So I don't see how DLC of any caliber cut into DLC profits. Maybe a bit (seen no direct evidence though), but "sharply?" No.

[Joun_Lord]

I highly doubt modding cuts into profits except as TheFenix put it stuff "some kid could bang out on his mom's Dell".

Free cosmetic reskins and minor things that games like most any EA game or game with shitty day 1 DLC would be charging for would cut into profits. Its hard to sell a gun with a blue skin when some modder is making the same thing for free. But many if not most people would agree that sort of DLC is kind of a rip-off anyway.

Actual DLC that has some work, mods will not cut into profits. All well done DLC will have people buying it because its worth it. Mods will probably even help sell the DLC. Mods help give a game life well beyond its original lifespan. A game like Fallout 4 had people hammering away at it for months between the launch and Automatron because already even without official modding tools a crapton of mods have been helping breath life into the game. Anyone still playing Fallout 4 with their Pony mods, gun mods, nude mods, nude pony mods, and anime goggly eyes mods is most definitely going to buy the DLC coming out, most likely have already long since bought the Season Pass.

So yes, I think sometimes modding can cut into profits but only when the official shit is worse then the stuff people are creating for free or when companies want to be greedy EA style bastards like EA.

[Lagmonster]

It has nothing to do with cost of living increases.

Okay, that was my first error. I ought to have said, "production cost increases" instead. You're right that 'cost of living' is a different thing.

Also, please provide evidence that mods cut sharply into profits. The only profits it cuts into is if you're charging money for what some kid could bang out on his mom's Dell.

And this was my second mistake. I shouldn't have stated it as fact, but rather that stakeholders view any free content as a threat to their profits, whether it is or no.

And there, I'm certain. I've seen people in my own industry invest with their intuition, and then yell at the company they've invested in to do whatever it takes to make money appear. Because they make the same 'it just feels right' judgments about consumers. That is, that if something exists that someone wants, because of something YOU paid out to make money on, well then - and this is key - FUCK that thing, and also you.

[TheFeniX]

Mods will probably even help sell the DLC. Mods help give a game life well beyond its original lifespan.

For just one example: try finding a companion mod for Skyrim (or one that exists as anything more than "I made this chick with huge knockers, please download") that doesn't require Dawnguard to tie into Serana's AI package. You get to the point in a Beth games life where almost every DLC is required for many mods in order to tie into those assets. This means "Legendary Editions" continue to sell for years (even if it lower prices) for more than just the base game. And since there's no physical disc, any cost of shipping is dumped off on the purchasers Internet provider: it's all extra gravy on a "dead" game.

Okay, that was my first error. I ought to have said, "production cost increases" instead. You're right that 'cost of living' is a different thing.

This we agree on, but we might disagree with the why. Games are not anymore in-depth than they used to be. If anything, you can use the FallScroll series to see just how much content has been pulled.

Fewer dialog choices mean less writing and fewer voice actors. Fewer Weapons and Armor (or items in general): less modelling work, less animation work. Really where the lion's share of money goes to these days in marketing and from reading, the business guys have worked out almost a linear curve on money spent on marketing translating to larger sales. So, I'm not crying for them there.

I look at some of the work these Kickstarter or smaller development groups are banging out for comparative pennies and it boggles the mind. I get that Beth is huge, they've got a lot of employees to pay and share-holders to payout. But that doesn't make their game worth more as a matter of course: we should be expecting more from them, not less. Sequels (if you have to do them) should be additive, not "hey, we threw a bunch of shit we've been messing around with into a game."

And this was my second mistake. I shouldn't have stated it as fact, but rather that stakeholders view any free content as a threat to their profits, whether it is or no.

True. Carmack noticed this with the original Doom: people creating their own content. The business guys wanted to shut the whole thing down. Carmack fought for it and even released tools so modders could create their own WADs without messing with the original files. This fight has been going on for years with certain developers being openly hostile toward modding.

Like how EA owes a large part of the longevity of Battlefield to modders and basically shat on them for later BF games. How Evolve sells shitty-reskins and has no modding support (from what I know). These are people who value money over everything else and they can eat shit and die for all I care.

And there, I'm certain. I've seen people in my own industry invest with their intuition, and then yell at the company they've invested in to do whatever it takes to make money appear. Because they make the same 'it just feels right' judgments about consumers. That is, that if something exists that someone wants, because of something YOU paid out to make money on, well then - and this is key - FUCK that thing, and also you.

Also true. From where I'm sitting, it's basically that people that don't give a single fuck about the industry are fully in charge of it and make all the decisions. These guys would have bombed out and cratered the industry 20 years ago because they had to rely on a, generally, more informed consumer base. But now? People pre-order games based on hype and will churn out $60 a year for minor updates. Helps that new generations just don't know any better. To them, this has to be the best way to do things.

All I can really say on the matters is: I don't expect a company to use money to make modding their game easier. But companies that are actively hostile toward modding and do whatever they can to stop it should be avoided as a matter of course. I can't think of a single company that does so who isn't also a money grubbing shit-hole of a company that should stick to suckering rubes out of money in the next bullshit mobile game.

Sad part is Beth seems to have a really cool bunch of developers working for them. They guys do some pretty good work when they're allowed to. But the guys giving the orders and almost all shit-stains. Oh yea, and liars.

[TheFeniX]

Also true. From where I'm sitting, it's basically that people that don't give a single fuck about the industry are fully in charge of it and make all the decisions. These guys would have bombed out and cratered the industry 20 years ago because they had to rely on a, generally, more informed consumer base. But now? People pre-order games based on hype and will churn out $60 a year for minor updates. Helps that new generations just don't know any better. To them, this has to be the best way to do things.

I should really finish a thought and stop ranting. This isn't even all that true. EA got its start in the 80s by basically buying up a lot of talent because publishing used to cost a lot more money when floppies and cartridges could make a successful game LOSE money. They also pushed out competition through exclusivity contracts. While those development groups did good work, EA has always been more of a marketing firm than a game developer. They're a (really intelligent) dinosaur that worked their way into the system by spreading out wherever they could and buying out any competition. I don't think their original plan could work in this day and age. Hell, the existing EA would crush them.

That kind of shit is really bad when you compare a game like Battlefield to Call of Duty. To a company like EA: there can be only one. So they're basically strangling BF by trying to make in more like CoD to try and compete directly. But CoD and BF players used to be almost completely different types of gamers. And now, with their owning of all things Star Wars: we're going to get something like 1 Jedi Game, one Battlefront game, 1 x, 1 y. Same shit with Ubisoft being mad Splinter Cell and Rainbow 6 were competing with each other. Can't have two good things these days I guess.

Imagine if Nintendo and SEGA had done this in the 80s: rather than Sonic and Mario being distinct platformers, they were directly trying to one-up each others mechanics.

Once again... I have to stop ranting at some point. I'm getting out there.

[TheFeniX]

Survival is out. Disables mods, the console, fast travel, and saving anywhere. Adds the need to feed, drink, and sleep. I can't complain about official mods as I don't have to download them. I just hate that they tied "Realism" to survival difficulty since a lot of overhauls for difficulty do not target anything but survival and I wanted a customized experience. Why do I have to play on "super-hard" to expand my RPG experience?

Dev kit is out, but the modding scene from what I can see is fairly quiet. Saved games are now marked with an [M] if you mod and save the game. Achievements are disabled if you load mods because I'm sure "cheevos" morons would bitch. They were probably smug until 5 minutes later when someone modded achievements back in. There's now a Beth.net in-game browser for mods. Probably shittier than Steamworks so I'm not even bothering with it.

The new update completely jacked my install. I didn't get around to fixing till yesterday because I've being playing other games and F4 still has nothing all that interesting to do. One mod I'm definitely interested in: a "death alternative" mod where a guy is using the Synth production vanilla asset to, hopefully, let the player create spawn points a la Bioshock or Blands. I think it would be cool to have to hunt down your old body and recover your gear. To Hell with the lore, let's all be synths.

I'm debating whether to hold off on any promising mods or help beta test them and submit bug reports.

Far Harbor trailer has dropped. Looks underwhelming. You'd think Beth could just maybe drop their high-school shit and send Obsidian some decent money to make a few DLCs.

[biostem]

I've been playing through survival difficulty, and while it is indeed a challenge, there are some minor nitpicks that annoy me:

1. I can fill an empty bottle with water, which is nice, but I lose the bottle when I drink said water.

2. The game seems to penalize short "naps" - since saving is directly tied to sleeping, it seems that trying to sleep for only an hour or 2, just to trigger that effect, frequently results in a "you feel tired" negative status, even if I just awoke from a 6+ hour long rest.

3. There are several places where you'll find a mattress in the wilderness, but you cannot interact with it - I don't know if this was intentional, or if they just so happened to use mattresses as part of random debris piles.

4. The game allows you to "cook out" the radiation from the various meat that you can get from animals, but it's still apparently impossible to cook/prepare any of the prepackaged food items, like cram or salisbury stake.

5. The game seems to really narrow down what are effective builds - because of reduced carry weight, perks like local leader are almost required, since you can't otherwise share resources between settlements or craft weapon/armor stations without it.

6. The game is very lethal now, which I like, but Bethesda needs to address issues like molotov cocktails impacting on objects when the throwing arc is obviously clear, or your companion runs right in front of you as you are in mid-throw.

7. Similar to 5 above, since you can get sick now, and antibiotics are hard to come by, unless you take the chemist perk, you are looking at perpetually running around ill. I can understand this if you are drinking dirty water or eating contaminated food, but if I have lead belly and/or only drink purified water and cooked food, I shouldn't be getting parasites, (I could see you getting this if you were attacked by a bloatfly).

8. I know there's a mod that adds this, (Fenix already addressed the issues with that approach), but you should be able to roll up a sleeping bag and carry it with you - have it incur the weight penalty, but allow it to be used to rest & save...

[TheFeniX]

5. The game seems to really narrow down what are effective builds - because of reduced carry weight, perks like local leader are almost required, since you can't otherwise share resources between settlements or craft weapon/armor stations without it.

This fits with what Beth wanted: a Jack-of-All-Trades character that is level 1000000 with every perk ever.

6. The game is very lethal now, which I like, but Bethesda needs to address issues like molotov cocktails impacting on objects when the throwing arc is obviously clear, or your companion runs right in front of you as you are in mid-throw.

At least they gave up the bullet sponge mechanic and made the character take AND DEAL more damage. And honestly, molotovs need an overhaul because they don't even do fire damage from what I know. I'm annoyed Arbitration (at least my copy) causes CTDs because the real lack of challenge from F4 is the dumb as hammers AI. They just dance and spin around. I swear, half the time the AI isn't even trying to kill you. And this mostly happens at point blank range... even when they have a melee weapon.

8. I know there's a mod that adds this, (Fenix already addressed the issues with that approach), but you should be able to roll up a sleeping bag and carry it with you - have it incur the weight penalty, but allow it to be used to rest & save...

Game also needs a random encounter mechanic when sleeping in dangerous areas which existed in a lot of fantasy RPGs back in the day. The good news is, all the shit needed to "fix" Fallout4s mechanics in these areas is small enough that it will be done and could easily make the jump to consoles.

I recall some people talking about new power armor. NOTE: "Adult content" link due to the mods requirements. You will have to be logged in. There's no nudity I can see, but you have been warned. There's Navi Female only power armor and is Bodyslide compatible...... which, wait what? I'm tempted to try it out just for the insanity of a boob/butt slider on power armor. I don't see it being that much further out for other power armor conversions.

[biostem]

So I got my survival character to level 20 yesterday, and I have to say that either I'm finally getting the hang of it, or the combination of perks finally is turning the tide in my favor. I've shifted my focus from trying to complete the main story line to establishing settlements and getting other miscellaneous supplies that I need/want. Right now, my biggest hurdle is finding enough crystal to build the recruitment beacons at each settlement. I also went with a low intelligence/idiot savant build to speed up leveling, so I'm hoping to run into some enemies with better mods for my guns, (I'm only carrying around a .38 pipe rifle for weaker stuff and .45 combat rifle for stronger enemies).

[TheFeniX]

That's really how the modern FallScrolls series of games work. While mobs scale to your level, they get a very limited selection of perks (if any) and their weapon builds are usually totally random (like guys with "spread attachments trying to snipe you), not min/maxed like the player. Once I hit about 16, on Original Survival, when the game first came out, the only problem was the bullet-sponge nature of the enemies. Other than that, I was sneak-tastic and blasting them with crits non-stop. And going back to the terrible AI, it's just too easy to pick them off one-by-one. In the event they try to rush you, their pathing is so bad and they bunch up because they aren't aware of each other tactically: they make hilarious nade bait.

Trying to push through past Kellog in the main story at level 9 was actually fun and challenging. After a few more levels, my problem was hitting up vendors to trade all my ammo in for .308 and shotgun shells.

This problem is exacerbated by the biggest change to survival: damage output and related adrenaline perk. Now that the player does more damage as well, the game becomes almost trivial as your modded-out Combat Rifle,when combined with the right perks, is doing infinity billion damage on critical headshots. The haphazard assortment of armor mods you would find on mobs worked back with .5 player damage. It does not seem to work now. And that you can still heal crippled parts with stimpacks is a major issue, at least as far as I'm concerned. It means no matter how low my health gets, I can pop a stim and go directly into VATS for all that tasty tasty 95% hit rate and instant-win <SPACEBAR> FOOOOM action, fall back while in cover, and do the same thing 10 seconds later.

Fallout is even worse than Skyrim because you had to mess around with alchemy, blacksmithing, and enchanting to get stupid powerful. With F4, you just pick the perks and available weapon mods to become Nibbler. In fact, Fallout 3 was even lousy with this since the DLCs gave you Divine Weapons of Mass Overkill.

[biostem]

The one thing I find odd is that it "feels" like I'm running into fewer legendary enemies on survival than I did in my previous normal playthroughs, so I'm literally running around with all vanilla gear.

Regardless, with lifegiver at R3 and lead belly maxed out, I don't get radiation from eating and slowly regen my health. In normal mode, (since I got the season pass while it was on sale), I would build those decon arches in all my settlements to remove radiation, but now I just deal with a little of it until I really really need to get rid of it.

[TheFeniX]

The one thing I find odd is that it "feels" like I'm running into fewer legendary enemies on survival than I did in my previous normal playthroughs, so I'm literally running around with all vanilla gear.

I've noticed them a lot less when I'm doing quests, even radiant ones, than when I've just gone out into the wasteland on murder-patrol. I don't know the specifics of the spawn formulas, but I would assume it's due to leveled spawns for questing and Beth wanting you off the beaten path as a time-dump.

They seem to spawn a lot less indoors and I usually find the most (sometimes 2-3) in external stronghold areas. Quincy, if left to respawn, is usually lousy with Legendary Gunners.

Regardless, with lifegiver at R3 and lead belly maxed out, I don't get radiation from eating and slowly regen my health. In normal mode, (since I got the season pass while it was on sale), I would build those decon arches in all my settlements to remove radiation, but now I just deal with a little of it until I really really need to get rid of it.

Radaway, even without perk boosts, is way too plentiful. I like the new radiation mechanics, but they are still only a minor annoyance.

I tried out the boobtasitc power-armor mod. It's interesting because to get the female frame to work, you have to enter a stock frame with nothing but a vault-suit equipped. If you do so, once you load in, the mesh is replaced. The armor itself is static. It's an interesting concept and I think I'm going to dig around the mod in the CK to see how it works. From what I've read, power armor is actually furniture the character "sits" in, which you then control. With the overrides I have to assume are happening, this would mean you could realistically "drive" any type of vehicle if you had the right animations for it.

I don't see why you couldn't use the system to "drive" hollowed out security Bots, or wear an Assaultron-suit like a power armor. Mods already exist to let you play as them whole-sale. But I'd rather not have to play as one without resorting to console commands to move it back. The problem would be if Fallout only has support for one "type" of power armor frame.

[TheFeniX]

So, I've decided I want to mess around in the F4 Creation Kit and I finally found this:
"The Creation Kit is free to anyone with a PC copy of Fallout 4 and a Bethesda.net account. Download the Bethesda.net Launcher, create a Bethesda.net account and log into the Bethesda.net Launcher. You can install the Creation Kit from the Launcher. "

Hey Zenishit: feel free to eat my ass. Sell people a box with nothing but a Steam code. Steam, I might add, which has this thing called a "Tools" section that usually hosts extras for a game. So, why use that when you can find a run around to get people to use what is likely a pile of dogshit mod organizer? And this is coming from a guy who uses NMM because "it works." "We have to control everything and we want mods for consoles to fix our broken everything and to give people something to do when our $25 DLCs are terrible." So, to mod for your game, I have to NOT ONLY install a shitty "Beth.net" program on my PC, but also log in to ANOTHER account.

God fucking damn it. Light at the end: "bethnetsucks" ISN'T TAKEN. So, hit me up I guess. We can play "Creation Kit: Fallout 4" on another fucking useless account created on the interwebs. Because that's all the launcher has right now.

BTW: here's my default view:

I had to maximize the window as "Install" was not visible because someone lost their "Programming for Idiots" book. Every "link" in the app just opens up a window in your browser. Most popular mod? "Unofficial Fallout 4 patch." This program truly is a testament to how fucking awful Beth is at everything they do. Man, talk about lucky that no one else will tackle the same genre they will and that they have such an established modding community with no where else to go.

They've dropped all pretense, Fallout 4 is literally "Skyrim with guns." This is the exact same Creation Kit, down to the interface. I have to give them a little credit though: there aren't 500 errors when loading Fallout4.esm.

I have zero excuse to be as angry as I am right now, but I want to punch all of the things that have ever existed and will ever exist. At least I don't have to load bethshit launcher and can just click "creationkit.exe." I'm sure they'll patch that out soon though.

[biostem]

My survival character is now a little over level 30, and I have to say, things get a lot easier - traveling still takes a lot of time, but you sort of get a sixth sense for where beds will be, and with several settlements chugging away, purified water and food aren't issues anymore. My character is a rifleman, so I've settled into a 2-gun loadout - a long distance sniper and a close to moderate distance heavy hitter. My sniper is still a .38 since that ammo is so easy to come by, but I'll probably switch it out for a laser rifle or some other weapon, (my other is an assault rifle, which I really like).

I think, if I could give some advice to other players attempting survival mode, it be this:

1. Don't ever use molotov cocktails, (unless you get the demolitionist perk that shows your throwing arc), as they too often detonate on some obstacle between you and your intended target, thus doing you in.

2. Unless you are planning on using heavy weapons, or are on your way to a vendor to sell stuff, don't bother with missiles or mini nukes - they are far too heavy to lug around.

3. Rest whenever you get the chance; It seems that you need at least 6-7 hours to get a "full night's sleep", so I wouldn't even bother sleeping the full 3 hours a sleeping bag allows, or the 5 hours a mattress can provide - this is particularly annoying, as you'd think a few 3-hour naps in a sleeping bag should suffice.

4. If you're traveling through an unfamiliar area, hit the VATS button every so often - you can spot land mines using this method.

5. Junk food is less filling - candy drops, gum, sugar bombs, etc, don't provide much sustenance, and you'll end up having to eat several of them to be properly fed. Unless you are desperate for food, instead carry around mutt chops, iguana on a stick, and other more satisfying foods. I've found that there are a lot more radstags in the wilderness, and not only are the steaks you can get form cooking their meet filling, they give you a much needed +25 carry weight.

6. You will spend a lot of time around Diamond City - you can take Hangman's Alley as a settlement with no prerequisites, other than killing the few raiders that you find there. Also, unless you want to decorate things yourself, don't bother buying the home in Diamond City - when you have to investigate Kellogg's home, (you gain access either by passing a speech check or bribing the mayor's secretary for 250 caps), you can use the bed in there. There are crafting stations in the city market, so you're not missing much by using this method.

7. Let loot go - Prioritize what items are critical for your survival and to develop your infrastructure - early on, these were things like crystal, circuitry, and copper. Once I had a few choice settlements where I wanted, I would go on non-mission related scavenging runs - like making another pass through Fort Hagan after defeating Kellogg, or taking another trip to Vault 114 after dealing with Skinny Malone.

8. Don't take Codsworth with you until later - he needs a robot repair kit to revive, thus requiring you to carry yet another item that takes up weight and can't be used for yourself, (I don't know if this stipulation still applies if you do not have Automatron installed).

9. I highly recommend taking the Lifegiver perk and getting it to rank 3 - you will slowly heal over time, while out of combat - great since you will be walking between missions a lot, and the extra health doesn't hurt, either.

10. A bit more of an investment than 9, but the Solar Powered perk gives you more STR and END between 06:00 and 18:00, and heals radiation damage while in the sun. I've been caught a few times with a maxed out load when the sun goes down, but that is a small price to pay for rarely having to use radaways.

11. Weapons dropped by enemies contain some ammo, so if you are running low, pickup any you find then immediately discard them.

12. Get Ballistic Weave as early as you can - it is a huge increase in protection, and many piece of clothing, which can accept ballistic weave, can be worn under armor - I tend to prefer the military uniform as it increases STR and AGI - great for extra carry weight and more action points. Then there's the Trilby hat (CHA) or the Battered Fedora (LCK) for your head.

13. Unless your build requires otherwise, deep pocketed armor is the way to go - it provides just as much extra carry weight as in normal mode, so proportionally, it's even better in survival mode.

14. Since we're on the subject of armor, keep in mind that you can remove armor mods without having and points in the armor perk - this is great if you find a particular mod that you want to use on another piece, (just keep in mind that a leather armor mod can't be used in combat armor, and so on).

15. Drugs make you thirsty - if you are planning on playing a character that uses the chem resistant perk/chemist perk, or any combination to boost your stats, you'll probably want to have a lot of purified water on hand. I've found myself using the various food items that provide buffs, a lot more often - they satiate your hunger and have to negative side effects. There's a Wilderness Survival Guide you can find, in Sunshine Tidings Co-Op, IIRC, that causes animals you kill to provide double meat.

16. Enemy respawn rates have been significantly reduced - use this to your advantage - you can stick to paths you have cleared for safe travel.

17. Many of the soup and other recipes need dirty water, (I have no idea why you can't use purified water) - you can get this easily by filling an empty bottle from any open water source, but I've found that Beantown Brewery, which is very close to Oberland Station, is simply overflowing with empty bottles, so it's a good go-to source of such empty containers.

That's all I have for now, but these tips have helped me in my playthrough...

[TheFeniX]

I've had less time for pew pew and have instead been reading a lot of QQ. Here's a Reddit post explaining some of the hilarity:

I've been modding games Since the first Doom (I made .wads and skins) and it's allways been amazing fun.
People apreciate that you extend their game experience and often offer their own skills to make mods even better, resulting in mod teams that can compete with dev teams. Everybody is always respectfull.
Even on loverslab, a mod community build upon perversion and depravity, people are friendly and polite.

And now Mods are coming to consoles.
Gone is the respect and proper behaviour.
Since a month or two consoles owners are spamming up Bethesda.net and the nexus with some very offensive messages showing bizarre feelings of entitlement. As a result you guys are literally making modding less fun.

Bethesda forums is filled with these questions:
"When will mods come to xbox/ps4?"
"How can I download creation kit to xbox"
"I own fallout for xbox, why must I own it on pc to make mods, no fair!"
Like, whole pages of it. The question is answered every time but no one reads apparently and it's just asked again by the next console player showing literally zero understanding of proper netiquette.

On bethesda's forum page the comments on my mod are 4 pages of "plz bring to xbox" Even though it says in the description I designed it specifically to work on xbox (simple scripts, no hi-res assets)

On the nexus console owners are posting rants about us asshole PCMR modders who "refuse" to bring mods to consoles.
I have been called an asshole because I can't bring a mod that uses third party libraries over to console. It's literally impossible to port this mod to console. I explain this and they come with calling names and posing solutions that I should consider. I've been called a dickweed because I removed a feature from the console version of another mod. It caused lag on a monster pc, it would kill a console. Yet this was a bad decision on my part.
I've been threatened because "I paid for the damn game, I have the right to use that mod!"
There has even been a poll on bethesda.net posted by console players that modders who refuse to release for console should be permabanned.
I mean wat? holy fucking sense of entitlement.

Etc, etc, etc.

Dear console owners. Could you please just stop and let us enjoy our hobby?
We do not work for bethesda. This is our hobby. You are not entitled to anything in this matter.

Modders are so pissed, they're talking about F4SE as a requirement just to DRM out console players. What kid started a poll to ban modders who don't release for console? I guess the post is gone. But This one is still there.

First off, as a console user who has been looking forward to this day FOREVER, It's wonderful to even think about what i'm gonna do once they are released. Now to the point. For most of us who are on console and are getting impatient, worried, feelings of trepidation, and nervous it's actually a combination of things:

1. We have been(like DLC realease dates) kept in the dark and given minimal info regarding anything.

2. The constant baiting by PC users is getting really intolerable. Just cuz you got some fancy contraption hooked up in your parents basement don't mean squat.

3. The limited info we have been given is more about limitations than what we will be able to get.

4. Considering in the past the CK's were out with the game release date(except for Skyrim I think), the 6-7 month has felt like an ETERNITY.

5. And as mentioned above, the release dates coming out right before the content comes out is really ridiculous. (Todd Howard and Company fear of hype train be hanged!)

Now as a console user I love the survival mode and the recent DLC but I would have much rather have had mods first than the other stuff. Now me living in a CAPITOLISTIC society realize that if they would have given us mods first I would have thought alot harder and been pickier on DLC I would have chosen and maybe not bought the season pass in November when I bought the game. And, by the by, survival mode as it is now(minus the bugs of course) should have shipped with the game. Bethesdas looming silence is the most infuriating. They have literally jaded me to future games they produce, I will NEVER buy one of their games on release day again. I love the work they do but if all they are gonna do is keep mum on things that are vital(ie: release dates, patch updates, bug fixes), I would rather wait 6 months to a year, or when prices are cheap, or the ultimate edition comes out. What they are doing is causeing the hype train to be 10x worse than just giving a reasonably close release date a few months ahead of time. I still love you BETHESDA but i'm a little insulted and annoyed with you at the moment.

Cry more. Please. Your tears. This post has made my lunchbreaks very entertaining. Such passive-aggressive whining.

Man, people think PC gamers are entitled. Holy shit, I can't wait to see how poorly Beth mishandles this. I don't always agree with it, but there's a reason Nexus protects it's modders to an almost ruthless level. People putting in their free time to offer you content don't actually owe you anything.

[biostem]

While I do not use mods personally, I envy the level of creativity and dedication many of these authors pour into their creations. The whole entitlement thing is, I'm sorry to say, a byproduct of the "want it now" mentality.

As ironic as this sounds, it may work against the modding community to have Bethesda officially support mods, now...

[Joun_Lord]

It does seem that way to me, that Beth sticking their dicks in the modding scene is going to be a bitter pill to swallow in many ways for the community.

There is good to it, official mod support could potentially make modding easier, installing easier, learning to mod easier. Despite not being a console owner (PC4Lyfe) I've got nothing but good things to say about the potential of console modding. Console modding is one of those things that have been being talked about since atleast the original Xbox if not sooner, the fact its finally happening seems miraculous. It was like an impossible dream much like cross platform play, something we might also be getting.

But with the good comes the bad. Shit like paid mods before already divided the community. Console modding may do the same thing. Probably won't help that some console kiddies will want shit NOW NOW NOW or throw a shitfit when invariably their game breaks because a mod doesn't play well with another or any of the other headaches PC gamers have dealt with since forever.

Beyond all that Beth seems to be trying to squeeze out any mods save from their service.

To activate your mods now you have to log into BethNet. Any mods downloaded from Nexus atleast for me I have to reactivate every time I play the game. Having to download yet another client to use the GECK. Taking so long to release the GECK. Disabling mods completely in earlier patches. Just hinky ass shit like that.

I love Fallout 4. Its not perfect but its fun as fuck. With the exception of fewer guns the Fallout 3 and Wasteland Workshop being some weak ass Horse Armor 2.0 bullshit I've had no real complaints.

But fucking Bethesda seems to be actively trying to fuck over their own game.

[TheFeniX]

To activate your mods now you have to log into BethNet. Any mods downloaded from Nexus atleast for me I have to reactivate every time I play the game. Having to download yet another client to use the GECK. Taking so long to release the GECK. Disabling mods completely in earlier patches. Just hinky ass shit like that.

That's still in there? Jesus, what a joke. I launch Fallout from the NMM, so I hadn't noticed. Makes sense Beth would want to kick out the Nexus. You know, the guys who helped build the modding community?

But fucking Bethesda seems to be actively trying to fuck over their own game.

Well, not the game: the people who bought it. I knew what I was getting going in. But to see them bully the people who gave their games the longevity they had. Well, they're laughing all the way to the bank as console kids kick and scream and Beth blames the modders.

[White Haven]

You're...doing something wrong, Joun. Mods work fine off the Nexus, reliably, same as always. If they aren't for you, then that's something wrong on your end.

[Lagmonster]

Yeah. I reinstalled to play Far Harbour, and while Nexus made me reinstall my mods due to something something patch something, once I did that everything was as smooth as it has ever been. Right now my only complaint is that there just seem to be so FEW mods available compared to the same time post-Skyrim or post-NV.

[TheFeniX]

Yeah. I reinstalled to play Far Harbour, and while Nexus made me reinstall my mods due to something something patch something, once I did that everything was as smooth as it has ever been. Right now my only complaint is that there just seem to be so FEW mods available compared to the same time post-Skyrim or post-NV.

Really? I got Skyrim on a sale for about $30. A few days later, I decided to try out some mods. I remember specifically that CBBE was just released and it and armor conversions were dominating the Nexus Hot Files section to the point I found it really difficult to get anything not BOOOOBS related. A shame because I was playing a male Nord at the time. This was about 5-6 months after release. Frostfall was in it's infancy and extremely script heavy. At least there was SkyUI. Aside from mesh/animation replacers, I don't recall there being a whole lot.

F4 isn't exactly screaming along considering how long modders went without a CK, but there were numerous QoL improvement mods released without official tools:
ArmorKeywords
Armor, Armor type, and legendary mod crafting.
New Workbenches
Letting companions go home.
Looksmenu with a faceripper (I suck at molding faces).
Take Cover mod (not awesome yet, hopefully gets better with CK access).
New guns and melee weapons that aren't vanilla garbage. Like the F4 Combat Shotgun... dear god.
And just NUMEROUS overhauls and additions to the workshop system.

I could be smoking something, but I remember there just being lots of tits and dicks available (and prostution mods) around the time I started playing Skyrim and not much else. They had a creation kit 3 months after release. F4 modders had to wait 6-7. I am really impressed at what the guys/gals are doing for F4 mods.

[Lagmonster]

It's almost certainly a perspective thing: I ran the keywords through the nexus and searched for the kind of things I normally do, mostly buttloads of cool, lore-friendly armours and weapons. I'm old, and therefore have an unreliable memory, but I seem to recall there was a mad rush to add in as many swords, axes, and plate armours as you could ever want within minutes of Skyrim's release, whereas so far I can't seem to find more than a dozen new weapons for F4 that are original or interesting. I'm just happy someone ported the Rhino hand-cannon over as soon as they did. Then again, you could be right, and I just don't know how to look carefully enough.

[TheFeniX]

You're probably right. The lore-friendly armors and weapons didn't interest me that much because, at the time, I was using light armor and most of those didn't look bad with high-res textures. I also didn't mind most the weapons. What I really wanted was dual sheath + shield on back and weapon sheath location replacers which were originally changed only via the skeleton. Many of these mods just had... issues. HDT cloaks would be a while out. Alternative start was horrible originally. I remember it spawning you into the greater world space, which was a bad idea because the Racemenu precache killer wasn't a thing yet and, even if you had the RAM/VRAM, loading Racemenu in a large area would crash more often than not.

I know Death Alternative was a while out because modders had issues hooking into deathevents (for lack of a better term) or interrupting combat before the player was killed via a "if health < 30%" (or whatever) condition.

Based on your post, here's the problem: a new sword is a new sword. You've already got the 2h/1h/DW animations for them. Those aren't likely to change. Creating an armor for skyrim is as "easy" as rigging the mesh to an existing Beth nif format, changing the dismember parts, and skinning it.

For Fallout 4, guns might require different reload animations if the magazine is somewhere different on the gun, or if the gun doesn't even use mags. Ensuring a rifle fits to the shoulder, the left hand grabs the stock, and the right hand is actually on the trigger requires knowledge with animating, not just meshes/skinning. And adding animations in F4 seems to be just as bad as Skyrim. From reading, it seems you can do it natively (so we won't need FNIS), but that's not a given.

For armor and weapons, here's where it gets stupid: you need to call for skinning data from the CK/FO4Edit (the game itself), not the actual mesh/NIF. So, porting over armors takes longer and modders couldn't even figure out what was going wrong for quite a while. This will allow for much greater customization in the future, but it took time to figure out.

[TheFeniX]

For those interested, there's now a Space Muhrine Power armor mod with Boltor and custom sounds for it. Textures are a bit flat at the moment, but updates are likely on the way and why not just install the DDS plug-in for paint.net and hammer away?

As for the debate about modding and DLC, more than a few mods have come out, some with quest content, that I want that require way too much DLC for my taste. Beth has seemed to do a good job incorporating enough assets into their DLC that modders are just tieing into it to save them trouble. Not interested myself, even at the 25% off of all of them. But I was tempted.

Also of note, for the past few days BIG TITS for the Lacy Underwear mod take up 99% of my phone screen whenever I check the nexus..... honestly not complaining. My wife saw it once and started laughing. Then she said she knew what to get for our anniversary, so.... definitely not complaining she looked over when she did.

Thanks mod guy who loves boobs. You are my champion.

[Darth Nostril]

This is the exact same Creation Kit, down to the interface. I have to give them a little credit though: there aren't 500 errors when loading Fallout4.esm.

That simply isn't possible. I had the Skyrim CK open as I tried to figure out how to stop Lydia from protecting enemies by valiantly throwing herself in the path of a well aimed fireball, sneezed while I was in the kitchen making a cup of tea and the CK threw up an error from two rooms away. It's the Bugthesda Creation Kit, it throws up errors, that is its primary purpose.

Also good job big tit modder, good job