Where the co-op at?

[TheFeniX]

Man, I don't even want to log into another MMO. FFXIV is just boring since leveling the classes and doing the content I wanted to. WoD is shaping up to be lame. Sadly, some of the best actual co-op (and by some, I mean only) was SWTOR.

Kyle and I just finished out the what I assume is what would happen if Michael Bay and John Woo had a kid.... then it exploded: also known as Resident Evil 6. We've pounded out Saint's Row 3 and 4. We were giving 6 Vegas 2 a shot but that fucking sound bug in co-op makes the game unplayable (because fuck you Ubisoft). The old D&D beat-em ups were fun, but lack longevity. I hit Saint's Row 2 with a hammer to get it working, but the PC port is fucking bad.

We got burned out on Burnout: Paradise. Diablo 3 was meh and none of the cheap Diablo clones interest me. Even the indie ones look boring. Steam is filled with a bunch of F2P bullshit MMOs cast as co-op. We can only play so many Arcade matches of SC2. Kyle wants me to grab RE5 for PC but we already pounded that one out on 360.

Dying Light looks interesting as does Evolve, but that's 2015. Gat out of Hell and Saint's Row 5 are out there somewhere, so those are likely going to be a thing for us. 2 other buddies with exploded PCs should be coming back online soon since they are getting their PCs unexploded.

I feel like we've already blown through most everything that's worth-while. I was thinking about getting Gears of War for PC, but I have little faith the matchmaking system works at all and I'm not investing $50 to find out. Why the fuck is that game still $50?

What's left out there I don't have to beat on for hours for good co-op play?

[Phillip Hone]

What kind of games are you into?

If you like RTS titles, Dawn of War 2 and its expansions have a good co-op campaign.

Company of Heroes 2 has some decent co-op missions but not a full co-op campaign.

The Total War games since Shogun have co-op campaigns you can play that work well enough.

[TheFeniX]

I liked Dawn of War 1. Never played 2. How does the co-op work? Full campaign? Cooptimus states each controls 2 out of the 4 squads. I don't get how this works. How different is the game from the first? The first was pretty standard RTS conventions with a few gimmicks to expand the gameplay.

I've never been big on grand strategy. Sins of a Solar Empire is the closest I've got to enjoying one and it's not even close. We play that when we get 3-4 people on, also because of the Star Trek mods. But games take forever and it's a crap's shoot whether the AI (no matter the difficulty) will be up for an actual fight or end up easily curtailed because they bottleneck and space stations kick ass. Either that, or it goes full cheating bastard and just decides it's winning. We also tried out Supreme Commander after a sale, but that game has a crippling memory leak.

My other problem with RTS in those veins is that you get so focused on managing your resources that you stop talking at all (and I assume this problem is worse in Grand Strategy). And bullshitting with each other is an important part of the fun. This is what drags me away from Sins even though I enjoy it.

When it comes to co-op: there are no games we're really into, except that they should be good and handle co-op well. There is pretty much no genre off-limits. We can and have played everything from Terraria to Cod: WaW Competitive Co-op.

[Elheru Aran]

DoW 2 is a pretty different game from 1. 1 (and expansions) are more a fairly straightforward RTS system, 2 is a little more squad-based and tactical game. I couldn't really get into 2 because it was just too different for me.

What's really fun about the DoW 1 series though is that it's absolutely lousy with mods. You can get pretty much nearly any faction you want into the game, any settings, whatever you like.

[Phillip Hone]

I liked Dawn of War 1. Never played 2. How does the co-op work? Full campaign? Cooptimus states each controls 2 out of the 4 squads. I don't get how this works. How different is the game from the first? The first was pretty standard RTS conventions with a few gimmicks to expand the gameplay.

I've never been big on grand strategy. Sins of a Solar Empire is the closest I've got to enjoying one and it's not even close. We play that when we get 3-4 people on, also because of the Star Trek mods. But games take forever and it's a crap's shoot whether the AI (no matter the difficulty) will be up for an actual fight or end up easily curtailed because they bottleneck and space stations kick ass. Either that, or it goes full cheating bastard and just decides it's winning. We also tried out Supreme Commander after a sale, but that game has a crippling memory leak.

My other problem with RTS in those veins is that you get so focused on managing your resources that you stop talking at all (and I assume this problem is worse in Grand Strategy). And bullshitting with each other is an important part of the fun. This is what drags me away from Sins even though I enjoy it.

When it comes to co-op: there are no games we're really into, except that they should be good and handle co-op well. There is pretty much no genre off-limits. We can and have played everything from Terraria to Cod: WaW Competitive Co-op.

DoW2 co-op works pretty much the way you said. It's the full campaign. The way it works is that there are four squads. If there is one player, they control all four. If there are two players, the "host" player decides which two squads to give his ally. So then you each only get two. It's not perfect but it works pretty well. You cannot build additional squads.

To answer your question about what kind of game DoW2 is, I'm gonna go into some Relic history now. Dawn of War 1 was a mostly standard RTS with some innovations like a minimalistic cover system, squads, morale. After Relic made Dawn of War, they made Company of Heroes 1, which radically expanded on what Dawn of War did with some really cool results.

The cover system in CoH1, instead of just the add-on it was in Dawn of War, became a critical element in every battle. Suppression was introduced for weapons like machine guns that gave them a really cool supporting role - they don't kill that fast, but they force infantry to hit the dirt and fight and move very slowly. Armor is different too - you can't just DPS a tank to death anymore. Rather, you need to use something capable of penetrating its armor, like a field gun, or a bazooka, or another tank. Tanks had very different front and rear armor so flanking became important. Lots of long range units (with limited sight) made scouting more interesting and more important. All in all, less of an RTS, more of a real time tactical game.

Dawn of War 2 used the same engine as CoH1 and imported all of its features with somewhat mixed results. Mechanically, it's not as good as Company of Heroes 1 - it has the same features in the 40K setting, just not as well implemented. Still, I found it really fun, and in some ways more enjoyable, since I've never been great at microing a lot at once, and DoW2 is very small scale. Base building and resource management are also entirely gone in the campaign.

[Elheru Aran]

Still, I found it really fun, and in some ways more enjoyable, since I've never been great at microing a lot at once, and DoW2 is very small scale. Base building and resource management are also entirely gone in the campaign.

Yeah, see, that's what didn't work for me. I like my big battles and sprawling bases, as well as getting way the fuck more resources than the other guy

[TheFeniX]

Holy shit. DoW2 actually has a demo for download. Novel concept.... I'll give it a go and see if it's worth the $30.

What does the PS4 have going on? I don't see much on cooptimus that isn't mirrored on PC, but that's an option. Our Google TV is getting old (horrible Netflix quality when compared to our smart TV) and I could use a new blu-ray player.

[Joviwan]

Have you already tried Borderlands 2? Or Borderlands: The Pre-sequel? My friends and I milked the coops in Blands2 for quite a while before it got stale for us.

[TheFeniX]

I had way to many hours in BL1 to count. Halfway through BL2 was when the co-op was no longer fun because the game's playstyle and writing are subpar. I can only do so many "run here and shoot things" quests before it finally gives out. There's no breakup of the roles: everyone kills things in a few variable ways. Contrast to SR3 where I might be driving a car while Kyle keeps the tiger in the backseat from mauling me to death (game is kind of nuts). Gearbox thinks just being outlandish and over-the-top is enough to deflect criticism, but they could learn something from Volition: crazy shit also needs to be fun and have a payoff. Both Borderlands game are way low in both of those merely relying on the obsessive nature of the player to keep them playing.

I doubt the next game is anything fresh and Gearbox has pretty much shown Borderlands was a freak accident of popularity because they generally suck. This, combined with their bullshit with DNF and Alien: CM, means they won't be getting any more money from me.

[RogueIce]

We were giving 6 Vegas 2 a shot but that fucking sound bug in co-op makes the game unplayable (because fuck you Ubisoft).

Curious to know what this entails? Because I played it with my friend and never noticed anything (and it was tons of fun). Is it on a specific platform?

[TheFeniX]

Occasionally in the 360 version of the game, the machinegun fire sound will loop over and over. It's rare and it either goes away on it's own or stops when you die. In the PC port, it's a known bug since release and only happens to your co-op partner (not the host). The difference between PC vs console is that the looping sound does not stop unless you hit a loading screen or disconnect (same thing really). The sounds can stack. It usually only happens if you spawn in or die when the sound is playing, but it can (and does) happen randomly any time there's machinegun fire. You can google "vegas 2 sounds loop bug" and get numerous links to the issue that Ubisoft never bothered with because fuck Ubisoft.

It's a shame too because the game is great and is pretty good gun porn.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Diablo 3 was meh and none of the cheap Diablo clones interest me. Even the indie ones look boring.

Really? I found Path of Exile to be superior to Diablo in basically every way. Plus, it's 100% free (the only paid stuff is cosmetic or convenience, as far as I know), so no reason not to try it, really. It's less a Diablo clone and more like a true sequel to Diablo 2.

I'll second DoW2 as a co-op game to play. The squads are consistent through the campaign, with characters who lead them, not generic RTS-clonewarriors, and in many ways the game is more like a real-time tactical with RPG elements (a la MechCommander) than a real RTS. There is still RTS skirmish mode if you like compstomps in more traditional RTS style with bases, and the Last Stand horde mode as well.

Payday 2 if you like shooters. It's pure co-op. Best with a 4-man crew, but a 2-man crew can still get a lot of fun out of the game. It's sort of like Left 4 Dead but with cops and bank vaults instead of zombies and safe rooms.

[TheFeniX]

I'm just kind of done with the isometric dungeon hack. Payday 2 is on sale, I'll probably look into that tonight.

Another game that has piqued my interest is "7 Days to Die." The zombie angle is played out, but I'm mostly interested in setting up my own dedicated server and just using the co-op aspects so we have our own persistent world. I'll have to do more research into how it works though.

[Mr Bean]

I'm just kind of done with the isometric dungeon hack. Payday 2 is on sale, I'll probably look into that tonight.

Another game that has piqued my interest is "7 Days to Die." The zombie angle is played out, but I'm mostly interested in setting up my own dedicated server and just using the co-op aspects so we have our own persistent world. I'll have to do more research into how it works though.

7 days to die is not hard to set up a server. And considering the 177 hours I sunk into the game? Yeah imagine Minecraft if the monsters never stopped being a challenge and you could die of dysentery.

The random generated worlds, the promise of more zombie types are development goes on? Yeah 7 days to die has good promise. They already have the underlying system down.

[TheFeniX]

7 days to die is not hard to set up a server. And considering the 177 hours I sunk into the game? Yeah imagine Minecraft if the monsters never stopped being a challenge and you could die of dysentery.

Awesome. So, if I setup a server, anyone who has the password can come in and continue scavenging and building when I'm not online and we can all reap the rewards? That's really something I'm interested in and would kill for more generic fantasy (like Elder Scrolls) or Sci-Fi in this vein.

[PREDATOR490]

Do not plan on opening your server to anyone you do not fully trust if you do 7 Days to Die or you might as well give up building anything. Cheating and hacking in that game are extremely bad to the point someone will wreck your shit you spend days building in seconds.
If it is a private server - 7 Days to Die can be okay depending on the population but you are better not playing the random map if you want a better co-op experience. The Random maps are random but folks have complained it suffers from lack of anything interesting compared to the fixed city map with its various locations.

If your looking for a sci-fi 7 days to die - Starbound might be a valid option and the mod community has added more stuff like Star Trek items etc.
As long as you make sure the folks you play with have the same mods then Starbound is fairly low maintenance.

[Mr Bean]

7 days to die is not hard to set up a server. And considering the 177 hours I sunk into the game? Yeah imagine Minecraft if the monsters never stopped being a challenge and you could die of dysentery.

Awesome. So, if I setup a server, anyone who has the password can come in and continue scavenging and building when I'm not online and we can all reap the rewards? That's really something I'm interested in and would kill for more generic fantasy (like Elder Scrolls) or Sci-Fi in this vein.

Random maps ATM are very sparse. Navagalze or whatever the default map is feature packed and there is stuff all over the place. It's easy to put 80 hours into there and just finish searching everything. The random maps are Minecraft (old minecraft) level infinite with the out of bounds being about forty or thirty forty away from zero/zero compared to default map which is about five miles square.

And yes 7 days to die hacking is bad not as in there's a lot of hackers but the server trusts your inventory. As in cheating is as easy as editing your inventory files not to mention trailers and hacks letting you fly at 90 mph firing rocket launchers and dropping mines like candy. But yes with a group of about ten it's a great shared experience as everything takes time but like Minecraft there's a fast concrete response to what your doing and autocrafting is a default option. EX, you break rocks to get iron to smelt for a pickax. The pickaxe lets you break big rocks into small rocks faster so you take some small rocks and build a campfire. You use that campfire along with a pot you made or looted to boil river water to make clean water, then maybe you use the pot to mix up some coffee or tea. While your water is boiling your off chopping down trees for more fuel for the fire or to sharpen into stakes to improve your defenses. Later you'll head into a nearby city to loot for guns, ammo food and raw materials. Book can tell you had to make things so you keep an eye out for those as well but you want to stay moble because more buildings means more zombies and individual hordes can cross the 80 zombie mark in the game.

Our worst night back in pre 8 was when two hordes merged and trailed back to our base after someone failed to lose them before heading home resulting in a solid eight minute battle as we threw up improvised scaffolding to fire down on the horde crossing our half finished ditch after we ran out of bullets and pipe bombs and were reduced to hand to hand for the last ten or so zombies. Lucky we had spent the explosives well so most of them fell in one hit.

Also on an unrelated note, you can eat broke glass to commit suicide. One of the many features promised.

[TheFeniX]

If your looking for a sci-fi 7 days to die - Starbound might be a valid option and the mod community has added more stuff like Star Trek items etc.
As long as you make sure the folks you play with have the same mods then Starbound is fairly low maintenance.

I played Terraria to death. I'm looking for something in the 3D first/third person venue and Mincraft did not interest me. It's not the building for the sake of building that reels me in. Honestly, co-op Skyrim would be my dream game. But the co-op mod going on is basically a cutdown MMO and it's unlikely they'll even get that going right.

Our worst night back in pre 8 was when two hordes merged and trailed back to our base after someone failed to lose them before heading home resulting in a solid eight minute battle as we threw up improvised scaffolding to fire down on the horde crossing our half finished ditch after we ran out of bullets and pipe bombs and were reduced to hand to hand for the last ten or so zombies. Lucky we had spent the explosives well so most of them fell in one hit.

How viable/fun would it be with 2 people, maxing out at 4? Do you know if it's easy to backup your save files? I wouldn't mind unlocking it after backing up, leaving it up for a day, and come back to see if people had fucked anything up or not. If restoring from a backup is as easy as copying one .map (or whatever) file back to the active directory (like Terraria), then I'm pretty much sold.

Also on an unrelated note, you can eat broke glass to commit suicide. One of the many features promised.

It's the little things.

[Mr Bean]

Our worst night back in pre 8 was when two hordes merged and trailed back to our base after someone failed to lose them before heading home resulting in a solid eight minute battle as we threw up improvised scaffolding to fire down on the horde crossing our half finished ditch after we ran out of bullets and pipe bombs and were reduced to hand to hand for the last ten or so zombies. Lucky we had spent the explosives well so most of them fell in one hit.

How viable/fun would it be with 2 people, maxing out at 4? Do you know if it's easy to backup your save files? I wouldn't mind unlocking it after backing up, leaving it up for a day, and come back to see if people had fucked anything up or not. If restoring from a backup is as easy as copying one .map (or whatever) file back to the active directory (like Terraria), then I'm pretty much sold.

Fun fact, map saves are not total but by region so if you know where is your based is (Say 0,0 or -3,1) you can reset just that half a mile grid and leave everything else the same. So it's not one save file but about twenty. Random gen save files are bigger but each one is just half a meg or so. Dig a giant hole, put up a 70 foot penis statue and dig an entire water slide and giant garden and it gets up to about 8 megs or so.

Easy to just stop the server, backup the folder then start it again and done.

[TheFeniX]

Yea so, I bought Payday 2 and 7 Days. Both on sale right now. I'll get around to rigging up a server and see how it is. Kyle gifted out RE5. Damn that game is hard to go back to after RE6. Especially all the QTEs with a keyboard. Still, at least the updated the aiming for mouse support on the port.

EDIT: Ugh annoying, the files aren't public yet. I have to log in with my main account for SteamCMD to setup my 7d2d server. Lame. Oh well, at least it's going.

[Jaepheth]

Could get the Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 Enhanced Editions.

[Mr Bean]

Yea so, I bought Payday 2 and 7 Days. Both on sale right now. I'll get around to rigging up a server and see how it is. Kyle gifted out RE5. Damn that game is hard to go back to after RE6. Especially all the QTEs with a keyboard. Still, at least the updated the aiming for mouse support on the port.

EDIT: Ugh annoying, the files aren't public yet. I have to log in with my main account for SteamCMD to setup my 7d2d server. Lame. Oh well, at least it's going.

There are third party server managers like 7 Days Server manager and Front Runner Server manager

Most home servers uses 7 days while hosting companies uses Front Runner. Mostly because Front Runner is more complex and 7 days is simpler. Best part about 7 days is how easy it is to change the settings.

[PREDATOR490]

If you are mainly looking for co-op action - Arma 2 or 3 should be viable even for 2 people depending on what scenarios you try.
Alternatively, you can try and join the popular severs and be fighting alongside up to 50 - 100 people.

7 Days to Die - 4 people working together in that game can dominate pretty quickly once you understand the system. Hell, one person can nullify any threat Zombies pose when you figure out the methods to build that make zombies hopeless. The gravity ditch that has zombies fall to their death being a good example.

[TheFeniX]

Could get the Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 Enhanced Editions.

Years upon years ago, I played Secret of Mana with 2 friends using a multi-tap. While fun, casting spells/using items slowed down the pace of them game, but was pretty much a requirement to not get steam-rolled. It was an interesting concept and one way ahead of it's time, but it didn't work all that well. Much like the tethered screen/everything of San Andreas and Fable 2 co-op. I'm big on being able to do my own thing in a co-op game, even if it isn't always the best idea. From what I know of BG co-op, you're basically just an extra set of hands.

If you are mainly looking for co-op action - Arma 2 or 3 should be viable even for 2 people depending on what scenarios you try.

I've got ARMA2 laying around from when I tried DayZ. Looking for something a bit more laid back and ARMA 3 is still $60 either way.

So, we went in blind on 7 Days and have done pretty well for ourselves. The first night was spent cowering in the attic of a house in (what I assume) is the main neighborhood of the stock map. Getting a spawn point up was the most important part, but now we've got a pretty good handle on things. I've specifically avoiding googling anything about the game, aside from some weirdness like what the bottle contents you need for a first-aid kit (was Grain Alcohol).

Obvious alpha is obvious, but the game has a lot of potential. Right now, I'm working on linking a few houses together with scaffolding which has lead to much hilarity as a stock-pile Splints due to breaking my leg like... constantly. So Kyle is left to gather supplies while I limp around linking everything together.

[Mr Bean]

Nothing in 7 days to die can screw you going in blind there are only one thing that will make you tear your hair out if you find out about them later both loot related.
Spoiler

That thing is an auger. It's in essence a shovel/pickax runs on gasoline and is far faster than a pick or a shovel at mining rocks and dirt. However it's a rare spawn and can't be made. Finding it in 7 days to die is the equivalent of Raid gear from an mmo. You think finding a drill which lets you do everything faster is just a so so upgrade but the ability to quickly dig trenches, break down barricades and the fact it is a giant drill so it's a hell of a hand to hand weapon makes it invaluable. I found one once and broke it down into scrap because it did not do anything not knowing it need gasoline to work.