An Idea I had (WH:40K DoW Related)

[Lord Revan]

I was thinking of making an LP or something like that for DoW: Soulstorm, mainly to give me motivation to finally go Thru the SP campaign for at least one race for it, as this is the bastard child of the DoW games.

If you said "yes" in the poll I'd like to hear what race you'd want me to use (note though that Dark Eldar are out of the question).

[Eternal_Freedom]

I like the idea (and I voted yes) but I don't see how it would work. It's not like, say, BARIS where you can forge a narrative and the players can have a genuine choice about what to do, in thais case it would be "pick a race" and then "pick a target." No real choices beyond that.

However, if you do do it I woudl say Imperial Guard, Tau or Necrons, they're always fun.

[Lord Revan]

I like the idea (and I voted yes) but I don't see how it would work. It's not like, say, BARIS where you can forge a narrative and the players can have a genuine choice about what to do, in thais case it would be "pick a race" and then "pick a target." No real choices beyond that.

However, if you do do it I woudl say Imperial Guard, Tau or Necrons, they're always fun.

true there's a bit of challenge.

[PainRack]

True....... Any LP would require the form of some.... narrative restriction.

Say, no Baneblades, or that a Baneblade must always inflict the killing blow, or that the hero must always be on the frontline and inflict the killing blow.......

P.S I'm leaning towards IG too:D

[Lord Revan]

there's limits as to how much I can flex as you probably know Soulstorm was rushed like hell and as such doesn't have a very good coding for the SP campaign, even at easy it's not really possible to dally cause you'll end up swarmed by the basic troops of the enemy.

no Baneblades for basic missions should be possible though.

If going IG I was thinking of something like an after action report by Governor-general Stubbs to the segmentum HQ.

[Vendetta]

Actually, apart from the terrible voice acting and poor air unit implementation, Soulstorm is no more broken in campaign than Dark Crusade was. The only thing you really miss out on is the banter that used to happen between your boss and the enemy boss in stronghold missions (I could say you miss out on the special missions, and you can't cheese defence missions by capping and exploiting the whole map, but that makes defence missions an actual Thing).

In fact it's somewhat less so due to lots of fixes to honor guard units that used to take up squad cap when they shouldn't and, once it was patched up more balanced than DC ever was.

(It's also way easier, 2 base enemies on Normal on DC was basically "you must honor guard rush one of them down or be overwhelmed", whereas in SS you can expand and map control well enough to deal with it. IIRC this is because you have more 200% health on Normal in SS and 100% in DC).


So, narrative restrictions:

No air. Air is shit.

On the first planet, use only tier 1 units (Guardsmen, HWTs, Commissar and Psyker)
On the second planet, add tier 2 units (Vehicles except Leman Russ, Priest)
On the third planet, add tier 3 units (Kasrkin, Ogryns)
On the fourth planet, add tier 4 (Full Scale War/Leman Russ).

Use Baneblade only in stronghold missions, may not be rebuilt in that stronghold if it dies.

You may research all upgrades for a unit type/economic upgrades, but may not build any units not allowed by campaign progression.

[Lord Revan]

I tried to play some IG missions to see if they were a viable option and they seem OK.

So, narrative restrictions:

No air. Air is shit.

personally I didn't find the marauders that bad but I can live with no air-support

On the first planet, use only tier 1 units (Guardsmen, HWTs, Commissar and Psyker)
On the second planet, add tier 2 units (Vehicles except Leman Russ, Priest)
On the third planet, add tier 3 units (Kasrkin, Ogryns)
On the fourth planet, add tier 4 (Full Scale War/Leman Russ).

nice idea but not gonna happen, I'm not talented enough to take out SoB with just base infantry, personally I was intending to so that while I got whole tech tree avaible I wouldn't use certain units at all in certain maps, for example in a non-stronghold city maps I'd use only hellhounds and sentinels but no other armor and focusing heavily on infantry including specialists, where as on a plains map I'd go mechanized with Leman Russes and Chimeras (with regular troops) while leaving other mechanical units and specialist troops home, kind of less like a game campaign and more like a military operation, so places where the enemy has a lot of ways to ambush (from example cities or forests you focus on troopers cause they're cheaper and can detect and defend from ambushes more easily then tanks, while on plains where you got open view to show the enemy while the imperial guard is called "The Hammer of the Emperor".

Use Baneblade only in stronghold missions, may not be rebuilt in that stronghold if it dies.

This I got no problem with in fact it was similar to what I was intending to do anyway (and was testing if it was viable). No rebuilding isn't really a major issue, as I'm generally good enough to not loose my relic units once I get them.

[Vendetta]

Winning early maps (indeed, probably all the skirmish maps) is totally viable with basic infantry, because the basic Guardsman squad is actually really good. Upgrade them, put a Commissar on them, execute, watch a million flashlights melt the enemy's face.

The trick is to be swarming them out really fast.

A few basic rules are: Always be taking strategic points with at least one or two squads.
If you have a choice between building a new listening post and upgrading an existing one, always build a new one because it refunds part of the cost.
Don't ignore grenade launchers. Their knockdown is really useful, take a couple early on.
Don't mix grenade launchers and plasmas on one squad. They have different ranges and the combat AI will stop at the range of the longest range weapon the squad has. Fill a couple of squads with GLs, they can outrange most defensive structures too.

Initial build should be a GM squad, a techpriest, another GM squad, and another techpriest.

Get your initial techpriest to chuck down an infantry command and one reactor.

As soon as your GM squad pops send it to cap the nearest point, when the first techpriest pops send it to build a listening post there. Do the same with the second GM squad and techpriest.

When your infantry command pops build another squad off it.

Your basic cycle at this point should be if you have 100 resources build a listening post, if you can't build a listening post build a guardsman squad, when you're nearly at 12 supply build a second infantry command.

Throw down the tactica control as well when resources allow and get the basic health and morale upgrades, grenade launchers, and sergeants.

Within 5-7 minutes you should be looking at being on 18 supply and probably have an income of 140 or so, this is where you fill your squads. Don't fill them too early, build more squads instead, even though you pay squad tax for doing it, when you have more squads you can scale faster when it matters, especially with the reinforce rate of guardsmen.

I'd say ignore the planet restrictions for stronghold maps, because you will need the extra force, but on the skirmish maps you should be able to outbuild the AI handily. I just ran the first IG map on Normal and was beating the enemy base down before the SoBs were out of tier 1, they only had basic unreinforced sororitas to oppose me with no upgrades, and I had 18 supply of full GM squads with comissars and special weapons.

Dawn of War is all about aggressive play.

Oh, and install the SS bugfix mod:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/soulstorm-bug ... ersion-148

[Lord Revan]

I'm not saying it's not possible to beat SoB with basic infantry, I'm saying I can't do it (not without putting a lot more effort into this then I want to), as I said it would be nice idea but I'm just not able to pull it off successfully

That said I never use plasma guns for basic GM squads, only the grenade launchers (with Karskin being full plasma), what did in my missions I played (excluding Sama District where I went all out) was 3 Basic GM with full upgrades and commissars, a pair of Leman Russes (though the way I used those they can easily be replaced by hellhounds) and basilisks for arty though that was a bit of an overkill.

and in case you think would be too easy remember that outside of Kauruva III there really isn't a place that's wide enough to effectively use to tanks (well some zones of Kauruva IV might count too). it also means I can leave Lands of Solitude last as I don't have worry about Blood Ravens rolling over me in defense cause of their good starting units.

[Vendetta]

If guardsmen didn't solve your problems you didn't use enough of them. They're a horde army, build a horde.

Really, there is absolutely no reason to stop at 3 GM squads, just keep building them until you can't build any more, then build a second infantry command and keep building more, and keep at least one of them capturing points (eventually you'll need to have the rest either fending off harassment or harassing yourself to bottle the AI up, quick rule, every time it attacks you, kill the attack then attack back and take a strategic location off it).

Remember that the game is completely different to Winter Assault, you can't turtle with any race, turtling is not how you play Dawn of War, you need to be out being aggressive, taking points and knocking the enemy back as soon as practicably possible.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I just conquered the SOB HQ with (mostly) a Command Squad and seven GM squads with priests/commissars and lots of plasma guns. Highly effective, especially with three Basilisks and earthsahker rounds backing you up. Numbers and concentrated firepower is key with Guard.

[Lord Revan]

Really, there is absolutely no reason to stop at 3 GM squads, just keep building them until you can't build any more, then build a second infantry command and keep building more, and keep at least one of them capturing points (eventually you'll need to have the rest either fending off harassment or harassing yourself to bottle the AI up, quick rule, every time it attacks you, kill the attack then attack back and take a strategic location off it).

Remember that the game is completely different to Winter Assault, you can't turtle with any race, turtling is not how you play Dawn of War, you need to be out being aggressive, taking points and knocking the enemy back as soon as practicably possible.

actually I could turtle quite effectively once I got where I should stop (aka at ramp to their main base taking out their ability effectively expand while I secured the rest of the map), though granted those maps I played had natural choke points I could abuse as for why just 3 GM squads my infantry build was 3 GM squads, 4 HWT, 1 karskin squad and 1 Ogryn squad making my supply be 3*2+4*2+3+3 aka I just hit the supply cap.

with a Psyker (or your commander with targeting optics) there's not many counters the SoB have for a well placed HWT (or four).

[Wing Commander MAD]

I'm not saying it's not possible to beat SoB with basic infantry, I'm saying I can't do it (not without putting a lot more effort into this then I want to), as I said it would be nice idea but I'm just not able to pull it off successfully

That said I never use plasma guns for basic GM squads, only the grenade launchers (with Karskin being full plasma), what did in my missions I played (excluding Sama District where I went all out) was 3 Basic GM with full upgrades and commissars, a pair of Leman Russes (though the way I used those they can easily be replaced by hellhounds) and basilisks for arty though that was a bit of an overkill.

and in case you think would be too easy remember that outside of Kauruva III there really isn't a place that's wide enough to effectively use to tanks (well some zones of Kauruva IV might count too). it also means I can leave Lands of Solitude last as I don't have worry about Blood Ravens rolling over me in defense cause of their good starting units.

Big mistake plasma GM eat just about anything in numbers (save actual tanks) and are ridiculously more viable than flash lights and GL. Keep in mind I'm not a fan of spamming execute. GM squads are about the reverse of other shooty squads (barring HB) where the heavy weapons cause nice damage spikes but most of the overall damage comes from the regular squad-members. Your first and maybe second squad of GM should have GLs and the rest plasma resources permitting. GM flamers are largely useless. Your priorities for squad leaders for GM should be Priest > Commisar > Psycher. That said when you get to them, you're best off using a priest for Kasrkin and Ogyrn as they they're far too expensive to execute. Ogryn should always have a priest though as an Ogryn squad with a priest can take on and beat enemy walkers for cost. Kassies meanwhile are best left with their hellguns, which have longer range and do appreciable damage on their own. IIRC Kasrkin with with hellguns and a priest are on par for plasma tacs for DPS. Throw in the genetics upgrade and a priest, and you have a fast hard hitting unit that can operate from behind your GM or behind your enemies lines screwing his econ. Krak grenades are good impromptu AV/AB or when you need to instantly break an enemy squad or two. Finally, don't ever lose so many men in a GM squad that they drop a HW, that waste of power will hurt you. Likewise never use execute if you're down to only the GM with HW. Execute is cost effective on vanilla GM, but the loss of HW is almost never worth the benefits of execute.

As far a vehicles go the only real notworthy parts are that Hellhunds should never be moved once they start fighting as their FoM penalty is horrendous, and that the AoE is much much larger than the graphic effect shows. Secondly, don't discount the Chimera. Its multilaser does decent damage to all target types (except HH and HB) and its armor type lets it outlast any infantry barring those with AV or soft AV (plasma/power weapons). Also, you should always garrison a nearby Chimera if your GM are broken as the gun ports put out more DPS than a broken GM squad.

[Vendetta]

Also take note in early game IG that the techpriest has the Commander armour class and are therefore the most durable builder unit, which means that they can actually tie up basic enemy squads which tend to perform poorly against Commander armour quite well whilst your early GM pew pews them.