Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

GEC: Discuss gaming, computers and electronics and venture into the bizarre world of STGODs.

Moderator: Thanas

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4869
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by TheFeniX »

I've been saying this since MW2, two games in. Go Forbes:
I’m in space. I’m shooting a machine gun, in space.

I don’t know what else is left to do at this point. I’ve seen every major landmark on Earth blown up from the Eiffel Tower to the Washington Monument. I’ve killed Russians, Arabs, South Americans and dirty US traitors. I’ve had my character die unexpectedly so many times, it’s become expected. I’ve saved the world and watch it be destroyed through some variant of World War 3 over and over and over.

The campaign of Activision’s Call of Duty: Ghosts is perhaps the pinnacle of all these events, and reinforces the belief that this nearly decade-old fad of modern military shooters is simply running out of interesting ways to tweak its concept for new stories.

Ghosts is a particularly relevant case to examine, as it’s meant to be a completely separate new sub-series from Modern Warfare and Black Ops. In it, you’re told of the legend of the “Ghosts” a famed military unit of 15 soldiers who stood against an army of hundreds and won. This is supposed to be impressive, but since in every Call of Duty game in history (and any shooter, for that matter), I’ve been a one-man army gunning down thousands, pardon me if I’m not particularly wowed by the concept.

The Ghosts go in and get jobs done that other units can’t, and are a bunch of supreme badasses. How this differentiates them from Navy SEALs or Army Rangers I have no idea, other than the fact that they all have cool skull balaclavas.

The US has been more or less destroyed again, much like it was in Modern Warfares 2 and 3. But it’s not the Russians invading this time, it’s a South American cabal who hijacked our space weapons program and used it to make craters out of our cities.

Like Black Ops 2 before it, Ghosts realizes that the definition of “modern” has to be stretched to an unreasonable degree for the series to look like its evolving. Black Ops 2 teleported us from’Vietnam to a fair distance in the future. Ghosts is content to advance us only a few years, and bask in a vaguely post-apocalyptic setting.

This isn’t a review of the campaign, it’s a diagnosis of the symptoms that plague the campaigns of nearly all “modern military shooters” these days, and make me think it might almost be time to retire the concept entirely. It feels like less and less thought is being put into these campaigns, but that also combines with the fact that we’ve “seen it all before” at this point, having played through nearly a dozen such stories across a multitude of different series.

It wasn’t always like this. When the first few Modern Warfares burst on the scene, there had never been a shooter campaign like it. In MW1, the Chernobyl level stands as one of the greatest in history. In MW2, “No Russian” was permanently burned into our minds. But now? By the time we reach Ghosts, it seems that ideas are either going to extremely wacky places, or are being recycled altogether.

In both Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty: Ghosts, released within a week of each other, I fought aboard a sinking aircraft carrier as planes slid across the deck. Past that, Ghosts takes some scripted scenes literally moment for moment from past games, as seen in the video below:

Elsewhere, when they do try to be different? Things are just getting ridiculous. Underwater and space levels, both using the same kind of physics, feel like something out of a James Bond game made while taking LSD. The addition of a new “dog” mechanic does nothing but make you click a button to insta-kill an enemy periodically.

Ghosts also represents the complete abandonment of characters in games like this. As in, there aren’t any.

Well, there are, technically (minor spoilers ahead). You play as Logan, and you and your brother Hesh(?) serve as Ghosts under your father. There’s bad guy named Rourke who was a Ghost, but was broken by the enemy and now he hunts his old team instead.

And that’s it. The protagonists’ primary defining trait is that they’re related to each other. The antagonist is trying to kill you. The end. The voice actors (actual actors like Stephen Lang and Brandon Routh) recognize the depth of their respective roles, and apparently all agreed to voice every line in the exact same tone with few inflections. The dog has the best voicework of the bunch, honestly.

Shooter campaigns need two things if they want to justify their existence: Meaningful gameplay and a compelling story. Or at least a solid attempt at either. Call of Duty: Ghosts lacks both, and subsequently has one of the weakest campaigns in recent memory.

Call of Duty has an increasingly problematic “shooting gallery” issue as the years have gone on. As in, there isn’t any real strategy to fights. You go into a room, and various enemies are scattered around behind cover. They run in and out, pop up and down, and you shoot them with a generous assist from auto-aim that’s leagues stickier than its multi-player counter. It’s incredibly easy, but turning up the difficulty doesn’t change the fundamental strategy of gameplay, it just makes you die faster.

The best shooter campaigns are ones that make combat a puzzle. There’s a room full of enemies, and you have to figure out the best way to kill them all, or sometimes, actually avoid them. Battlefield 3 may have been full of the sort of overused set pieces like prison breaks and building toppling as rival games, but it was somewhat enjoyable because there was some strategy to how you approached a room. In a hangar full of Chinese soldiers, I found I kept dying trying to take them all head on. Eventually, I learned to creep around the side of the room, so when I engaged I wasn’t surrounded, and I could ultimately sprint to my final destination. In Call of Duty, you probably would be forced to kill every enemy in the hangar before your NPC partner was physically even allowed to open the exit door you needed to go to.

Third person shooters have proven to do “strategic” combat reasonably well. More so than FPSs for the most part. Naughty Dog in particular has done great work with this between Uncharted and The Last of Us, where each encounter feels like a riddle. How do I kill three snipers, two RPG-wielders and three shotgunners with only twelve pistol shots and a hand grenade? But in Ghosts, the answer would just be to hide behind the same bit of cover, and hope the auto-aim of your 300 round machine gun snaps to each of their faces quickly enough.

Then there’s story. Sure, you can just view these campaigns as the equivalent of Michael Bay movies where explosions substitute for dialogue, but they don’t have to be. There’s a way to tell compelling stories in this genre, but they’re few and far between lately. Spec Ops: The Line drew praise not for its gameplay, which was honestly pretty generic, but of its fantastic rendition of Heart of Darkness, remade with a modern military unit in a ruined Dubai. But normally all we get are landmarks being exploded, and there are few actual characters being developed.

A bond between a military family is a fantastic seed for a compelling story to grow out of, but Ghosts is so concerned with assaulting the player with action at all times, that there’s no time for any character to develop in the least bit, and certainly not the mute, never-seen protagonist we control. It’s all of ninety seconds between when we meet these characters and when a city is demolished, and there’s never any flashback or discussion about anything that happened to them before they became ghostly killing machines.

Games can often struggle with actual gameplay, but are salvaged with compelling stories. The problem now is that Call of Duty campaigns have gameplay lacking in any amount of strategy and barely even attempt to write an effective story at this point. You need one or the other, if you can’t manage both.

It’s just not enough to blow stuff up in graphically impressive ways anymore. Shooter campaigns need more than that to prove that they should even exist. If the amount of effort put forth in making them is just going to keep decreasing, perhaps these series would be better off just devoting those resources into expanding multiplayer content further. But I miss good campaigns, and Call of Duty: Ghosts’ failures only serve to remind me of that fact.

And really, a lot of what I’m saying applies to multiplayer too. That’s a post for another day, but without playing it yet, if I guessed and said that Ghosts added some new maps, new guns, and tweaked classes and customization a bit, would I be on the right track? We’re stuck in a box in that mode too, and I’m not sure how long this genre is sustainable.
Watch the video embedded in the article, it's hilarious. Just like WWII shooters finally got played out, it looks like we're finally here with the "Modern" equivalent. It's this consistent yearly release, like Madden, with a check-list of approved "upgrades" to gameplay while doing nothing to advance the genre or even give us a different experience from older models. People buy the new version, because that's what you do.

But more so than that, it's that they aren't even "modern" shooters. We're going way past Tom Clancy levels of absurdity to make menacing bad guys. It makes you wonder at what point you're going to end up in Lost Planet.
User avatar
Brother-Captain Gaius
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6859
Joined: 2002-10-22 12:00am
Location: \m/

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

We've been there for awhile now - I was getting tired of it by MW2, and was the main reason I had any interest whatsoever in Black Ops (a nebulous Cold War setting is intriguing). The last "modern warfare" game I've touched is BF3, and I don't really see any compelling reason to get 4 now, despite being a Battlefield fanboy.

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare was a novelty. I liked it for its then-bold move to escape Hollyworld War 2 (a very different beast from Real World War 2) and play with some modern toys and gizmos. But that's all it was, really: a novelty. That the modern warfare trend has continued unabated even after MW2 has baffled me. Battlefield 2 was a rare gem, in that it actually utilized some of the depth you can potentially get out of a modern setting, thanks in large part to its third China faction and lush Chinese environments.

I've been calling for a return to World War 2, done properly at least. People got tired of it, and I was one of those people, but it's been shoved off into the corner of niche games like Red Orchestra for quite a long time now. Why they released Battlefield 4 instead of Battlefield 1944 is a little puzzling to me. They got things pretty well figured out in 3, if you're going to release another iteration so soon, why not take that iteration back to the series' fondly-remembered roots? The sophistication of Battlefield gameplay has gone forward in leaps and bounds since 1942, so the things you could do with a 1942-style World War 2 setting makes me salivate (Dress-up for your dude! Throw on a zeltbahn! Unlock the rarely-used US camo pattern! Unlock the G43 to replace your K98! Use vehicle unlocks to turn your M4A1 into an M4A3E8 76mm, or add schürzen to your PzIV Ausf. H!).

But really, there are so many things you can do besides more modern warfare. The Cold War has seen little love. Operation Flashpoint and CoD: Black Ops are the only notable entries I can think of (World in Conflict also explored it, but that's an RTS). Vietnam rarely gets proper treatment either. Battlefield Vietnam is hugely underrated and remains one of the best of the series, and the only thing since has been a sort of homage-DLC for Bad Co 2 (which I don't think really did the original justice, despite the enhancements). Hell, you can get really crazy and do Korea, or maybe a fictionalized Desert Storm / early 90s setting. And of course, there's always sci-fi, though that enters relatively complex territory vis-a-vis gameplay, IPs, subgenre identity and a zillion other odd concerns that crop up.
Last edited by Brother-Captain Gaius on 2013-11-06 01:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
Agitated asshole | (Ex)40K Nut | Metalhead
The vision never dies; life's a never-ending wheel
1337 posts as of 16:34 GMT-7 June 2nd, 2003

"'He or she' is an agenderphobic microaggression, Sharon. You are a bigot." ― Randy Marsh
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22438
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Mr Bean »

It's been a running problem with modern shooters. They have gotten the point of Mario games where you have to have the fire level (Office building) the ice level (giant battlefield you sneak/cinematic past) the water level (The water level). The story is less what's going on as in how to justify where we are going.

You could see hints of this in MW2 where they built some levels before they wrote the story and it was blatant but well hidden in MW3. And Battlefield has always been terrible with lackluster singleplayer and hilarious bad borderline offensive stories.

So as they bleed talent they also bleed writers.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Thanas »

MW1 is a game I still like to replay. Yeah, it was out there, but at least it had a good story that gripped you. Tschernobyl was a great level. The nuke was one of the bravest decision in gameplay. It totally screwed with the "race against time to stop bomb" concept. This time you did not feel any threat because you knew the good guys always defuse the bomb in the end. BLAM, your character is dead. Major wakeup call.

Now it is similar to grimdark stuff - you expect the outrageous so it becomes less and less good. Also, please no more WWII shooters. I think games like Red dead redemption showed far more interesting scenarios. How about a WWI shooter, a wild west shooter or a Korean war shooter? Maybe another vietnam. But good god, no more WWII or modern stuff.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Brother-Captain Gaius
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6859
Joined: 2002-10-22 12:00am
Location: \m/

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

Well, you could always go Napoleonic. :wink:

Which actually brings to mind an interesting trend: the medieval shooter. Mount & Blade Warband introduced multiplayer medieval mayhem, which has since been further refined by War of the Roses, Chivalry, and now War of the Vikings. If this trend has legs, then I will be very happy indeed. Murdering people with an arming sword while dodging crossbow bolts is so much more satisfying than yet more circle-strafing with a camo-painted experimental carbine slated for limited operational service in 2023 with 8000 tacticool gizmos bolted onto it.
Agitated asshole | (Ex)40K Nut | Metalhead
The vision never dies; life's a never-ending wheel
1337 posts as of 16:34 GMT-7 June 2nd, 2003

"'He or she' is an agenderphobic microaggression, Sharon. You are a bigot." ― Randy Marsh
User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4869
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by TheFeniX »

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare was a novelty. I liked it for its then-bold move to escape Hollyworld War 2 (a very different beast from Real World War 2) and play with some modern toys and gizmos. But that's all it was, really: a novelty. That the modern warfare trend has continued unabated even after MW2 has baffled me. Battlefield 2 was a rare gem, in that it actually utilized some of the depth you can potentially get out of a modern setting, thanks in large part to its third China faction and lush Chinese environments.
I thought MW1 novelty was strengthened by it's complete package. It had some of the best console MP I've ever seen with a level-up process that didn't hamstring new players. The single player campaign, while cliche as they come, was extremely well done and engaging. It suffered from Grenade of Grenade: Grenade Grenade at higher difficulty, but that was really the only negative I can recall about the game. It just happened to have spawned a whole number of games that have done nothing to keep the series moving forward, instead just rehashing old stuff (like maps, guns, and general gameplay) while saying "how over the top can we go?" WRT to storytelling. Really, it isn't the over-the-top stuff that gets me. It's how stupid and shoe-strung it all gets.

It's like how people cringe when prison guy punches Batman in the back to fix a protruding disc: I laugh because it's so fucking stupid, my empathy meter reads zero and this is supposed to be "RAWR gritty grimdark realistic Batman."

I laughed hard as well during a mission in MW2 (I think, I buy them for the wife and play them a bit) where it's like "stop him, shoot him in the leg because we need him alive and I watch too many movies! What do you mean the 5.56 flattened out, fragmented, and he bled to death in seconds!?" Oh wait, that didn't happen. Instead the guy is just fine in the next scene where he's tied to a chair and, as the door closes, some guy is sparking jumper-cables in a "we're about to free the shit out of you" moment.
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22438
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Mr Bean »

No WWII shooters? You could totally do a good one with a proper story like none come before. Want one? Here one I dreamed up in five minutes

Hans Polman proud son of Poland, you start the game as him as he gets all geared up to defend his small town like his other friends who are all proud of their new uniforms and training. Like the potato training in Call of Duty 2 except you disguise the training in Hans everyday activities, dashing to the end of the road after his friends, learning to throw grenades by throwing rocks and it ends with Hans and his good friends waving goodbye to his family and marching away to war.

You've got your levels, Hans fights in the short war, has to sneak away from Germans escapes to France only to have to escape again in Dunkirk to joining a Polish division for a much different Normandy invasion than portrayed. Losing friends stage by stage until 1944 where he once went to war with six or seven good friends he's down to two. Throw in a second lead for the 1941 and 1943 years of fighting for them to join up (somehow) for 1944/1945.

Don't take them to all the high points but several but let the game start and end quietly. I'd like nothing more than to have the last mission be a simple one where they soldiers are gearing up to do something only to hear the war end on the radio rather than planting a flag on something.

Korea you could do the same, Vietnam needs a better modern treatment, you could do a great BoB style story with one game that takes place entirely in defending one firebase in Vietnam.

Ideas, we have them.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Borgholio »

I'd like a civil war shooter. I don't think anybody has done that...
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Thanas »

Mr Bean wrote:No WWII shooters? You could totally do a good one with a proper story like none come before. Want one?
Sorry but I am pretty much wasted on WWII at this point. I mean, there isn't one scenario I haven't played one way or the other in one game or the other, be it action or not. Heck, even the escape/underground thing has been done.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4869
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by TheFeniX »

Borgholio wrote:I'd like a civil war shooter. I don't think anybody has done that...
The closest I think is Darkest of Days, but it's some weird time-travel plot with M-16s. I never played it.
User avatar
born in shadow
Youngling
Posts: 143
Joined: 2008-10-14 06:41pm
Location: Some kind of lead box

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by born in shadow »

Borgholio wrote:I'd like a civil war shooter. I don't think anybody has done that...
There's actually a few History Channel games covering the Civil War, which have pretty universally bad reviews.

Though I agree, I'd like to see some other wars depicted. Vietnam and Korea have been the ones I'm most interested in, though I'd like to see WWI in a way that isn't "sit in a trench for a week then die of trench foot" but I feel it'd descend into wave after wave of turret sections.
User avatar
Skywalker_T-65
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2293
Joined: 2011-08-26 03:53pm
Location: Bridge of Battleship SDFS Missouri

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Skywalker_T-65 »

I'd definitely pay for a Korea shooter.


Come to think of it...has there been a Korean War shooter? And I mean a proper one, not a 'OMG the war restarted!!' one.
SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE
User avatar
Siege
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4108
Joined: 2004-12-11 12:35pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Siege »

I'd love to see a Civil War shooter done with the unreliable narration of Call of Juarez: Gunslinger. "I heard we fought them Yankee bastards over states' rights!" [cue scenario 1] "No, no, that's not how it went..." [cue scenario 2]

In fact come to think of it a lot of these cardboard cutout shooters could probably do with some twisting of the way the story is told. The article mentions Spec Ops: The Line and that did an exceptional job of making the player wonder what the fuck kind of terribleness you were perpetrating through pretty much nothing but a narrative that was increasingly disconnected from what you actually saw was going on; even a fraction of that would make the CoD single player far more entertaining than it's been for the past, oh, five or so games in the series.
Image
SDN World 2: The North Frequesuan Trust
SDN World 3: The Sultanate of Egypt
SDN World 4: The United Solarian Sovereignty
SDN World 5: San Dorado
There'll be a bodycount, we're gonna watch it rise
The folks at CNN, they won't believe their eyes
User avatar
tezunegari
Jedi Knight
Posts: 692
Joined: 2008-11-13 12:44pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by tezunegari »

Siege wrote:I'd love to see a Civil War shooter done with the unreliable narration of Call of Juarez: Gunslinger. "I heard we fought them Yankee bastards over states' rights!" [cue scenario 1] "No, no, that's not how it went..." [cue scenario 2]

In fact come to think of it a lot of these cardboard cutout shooters could probably do with some twisting of the way the story is told. The article mentions Spec Ops: The Line and that did an exceptional job of making the player wonder what the fuck kind of terribleness you were perpetrating through pretty much nothing but a narrative that was increasingly disconnected from what you actually saw was going on; even a fraction of that would make the CoD single player far more entertaining than it's been for the past, oh, five or so games in the series.
The unreliable narrator would have been perfect for Spec Ops: The Line.

[It's been a while since I played it so my recollection might be spotty]

The whole game felt like a standard shooter the most of the time and the twist towards the end (everything you have witnessed is a delusion) came out of nowhere. If Yager had at least included forshadowing (showing the damage to the radio the main character used to talk to Col. Konrad, the shelter of the outpost clearly marked with a red cross or clearly civilian activity as you torch it with White Phosphorous, the killer / water thief scene) it is only shown in reveal-Flashback at the very end what kind of delusions you followed.
The gameplay and narration never felt like a deconstruction of a standard heroic shooter to me.
The twist reveal should have just highlighted the foreshadowing and finally connect the dots that spell out the delusion for the people who missed those details.

Imagine the story told like a debriefing of the main character Walker. The narrator is the investigator in charge of finding out what happened. Everything starts with him narrating the story as collected by reports of the SAR team that evacuated Walker at the end, other survivors of Konrads 33rd, rescued civilians and Walker himself.
Walker interrupts at several points to change the narration like CoJ: Gunslinger did, but there are details in the changes that pop out. Like clearly visible civilians in the outpost you have to attack with White Phosphorous.
And towards the middle the narrator changes gradually from the investigator to Walker, with the investigator interrupting and showing prove that Walkers narrations is wrong.
The twist reveal is the investigator using the scenes from earlier and pointing out the details foreshadowing the truth, the ones that didn't change, to tell Walker that all he remembers, or is willing to tell, is a delusion.
"Bring your thousands, I have my axe."
"Bring your cannons, I have my armor."
"Bring your mighty... I am my own champion."
Cue Unit-01 ramming half the Lance of Longinus down Adam's head and a bemused Gendo, "Wrong end, son."
Ikari Gendo, NGE Fanfiction "Standing Tall"
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Thanas »

Dude, there were plenty of hints before.

For example, the CIA interrogation. Or the part where the surviving civilians were angry as hell at you for killing the soldiers. Or where civilians other than insurgents in general seemed to hate you. Even if you missed the intro where he states their mission purpose those things should have tipped you off.

If nothing else, then definitely the water destruction should have been a massive hint that you were on the wrong side.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22438
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Mr Bean »

Did you not pick up on the number of times your squad asked what the heck you were doing? Or seem to not be speaking as soldiers but little mental voices? Or how mission objectives kept changing? Or the planted explanations that make no sense? Nothing after the helo crash makes sense, the same one you start the game flying? Nothing makes sense after than and it's obvious, before that it's subtle but after that (And there is over a third of the game left at that point) it's everything short of backwards talking dwarfs in red rooms.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4869
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by TheFeniX »

Isn't Spec Ops the game where you're forced to commit atrocities where the game won't continue otherwise and the developers say "You're such a bad person for doing what we're forcing you to do."? I think I watched a zero punctuation on that.

That's hard to pull off right in a video game and good ones can afford to bash the player/genre. But Specs Ops was pretty mediocre everywhere. Dead Space had it going well until the fight scene with your girlfriend that made no sense in the context of the game and was merely designed to throw the player off the scent.
Grumman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2488
Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Grumman »

I'm reminded of a comment from a previous thread, where apparently the only modern shooter that remembers women can be soldiers was some Gaiden game on the Playstation.

Oh well, at least I have Fallout: New Vegas.
User avatar
Brother-Captain Gaius
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6859
Joined: 2002-10-22 12:00am
Location: \m/

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

Grumman wrote:I'm reminded of a comment from a previous thread, where apparently the only modern shooter that remembers women can be soldiers was some Gaiden game on the Playstation.

Oh well, at least I have Fallout: New Vegas.
You got the Vegas part right: Rainbow 6 Vegas 2's player character can be female.

(and come to think, the entire lineup of classic Rainbow 6, although arguably a slightly different genre, has entire rosters of female operatives)
Agitated asshole | (Ex)40K Nut | Metalhead
The vision never dies; life's a never-ending wheel
1337 posts as of 16:34 GMT-7 June 2nd, 2003

"'He or she' is an agenderphobic microaggression, Sharon. You are a bigot." ― Randy Marsh
User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4869
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by TheFeniX »

With generally better voice actors which is why I always played female characters in Vegas games. Also, "Not bad asshole! Not bad."

Are cops faux pas these days? Why haven't we seen a Robocop game without the Robocop part? We've gone off the deep end with military shooters, why not a cop game where it isn't all about investigation, read: click on things for a bit and get dialog? Imagine a game about managing a police force in a bombed out shit-hole and your objective is to avoid having the national guard called in an attempt to clean up the streets.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Thanas »

TheFeniX wrote:Isn't Spec Ops the game where you're forced to commit atrocities where the game won't continue otherwise and the developers say "You're such a bad person for doing what we're forcing you to do."? I think I watched a zero punctuation on that.

That's hard to pull off right in a video game and good ones can afford to bash the player/genre. But Specs Ops was pretty mediocre everywhere. Dead Space had it going well until the fight scene with your girlfriend that made no sense in the context of the game and was merely designed to throw the player off the scent.
Spec Ops is one of my favorite games ever. I don't get where you are getting the mediocre part from.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4869
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by TheFeniX »

King's Field is one of my favorite games of all time and, besides the difficulty, was a pretty mediocre game. It didn't exactly give us anything new in the FPS (First-Person Stabber) genre.

I never played spec ops, but reviews have it pegged as a pretty standard "hide behind things and pop-out to shoot" 3rd person game with a story that seems deep on the surface, but falls apart the further you go down the rabbit hole. They tried something new with the plot, dissecting the modern shooter, but they did so in a high school writing kind of way (No John, you ARE the demons! And then John was a zombie). By forcing actions on the player, then berating him for said actions, the impact is lost.
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Losonti Tokash »

This thread is pretty great because we can, all in one place, see people complain these games have no innovation while ALSO complaining that the innovation in those games is dumb and unnecessary. Bonus for "that game sucks no I never played it."
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Thanas »

TheFeniX wrote:King's Field is one of my favorite games of all time and, besides the difficulty, was a pretty mediocre game. It didn't exactly give us anything new in the FPS (First-Person Stabber) genre.

I never played spec ops, but reviews have it pegged as a pretty standard "hide behind things and pop-out to shoot" 3rd person game with a story that seems deep on the surface, but falls apart the further you go down the rabbit hole. They tried something new with the plot, dissecting the modern shooter, but they did so in a high school writing kind of way (No John, you ARE the demons! And then John was a zombie). By forcing actions on the player, then berating him for said actions, the impact is lost.
Spec Ops is IMO one of the most underrated games ever due to most reviewers missing the point spectacularly - aka "I look for standard stuff, it is not in there, therefore the game sucks". The writing is good. Much superior to anything done in Call of Duty.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Starglider
Miles Dyson
Posts: 8709
Joined: 2007-04-05 09:44pm
Location: Isle of Dogs
Contact:

Re: Modern Shooters Played Out (CoD)

Post by Starglider »

Spec Ops had completely standard and mediocre contemporary shooter gameplay. The story was good and the characterisation above average for a shooter. For comparison Bulletstorm was much prettier, much more fun, more varied and had surprisingly engaging characters, only coming up short in the story. Spec Ops was compelling but only as a participatory study in military mental breakdown.

I enjoyed the Bad Company games, would like to see someone make a good WW2 or Korea game.
Post Reply