So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Stark » 2013-05-24 05:07pm

Vendetta wrote:We'll see whether Google TV achieves actual penetration on TV sets as a standardised smart interface, but I suspect it's more likely it'll just drive what the existing smart features of smart TVs do.
I'm not sure what can be worse than manufacturer TV software, to be honest. Maybe even expanding googles death grip would be better! :lol:

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by bilateralrope » 2013-05-24 07:17pm

TheFeniX wrote:There's a bit more on the resale front
The retailer sets the price—within limits—and the eventual sale is divided three ways, with the split percentage determined by Microsoft.

That percentage may be as low as 10% for retailers.
It will be nice for publishers like Microsoft and EA, which keep their games at high price points for an extended time after release to finally force the used market to do the same, and take all the money while doing so, while ensuring the original purchasers gets shit on a trade-in (more so than usual) so Gamestop can continue earning a profit. That Microsoft is taking a cut at all is fucking hilarious.
It sounds more like MS is trying to kill the second hand market and shift the blame to the consumer. "It's not out fault the second hand market it dead. Blame the people not selling their games". Maybe twist the knife a bit with digital sales that are below the price retailers are charging for the used games, and thus below the price being charged for the same game on other platforms.

In the mean time, you can also have your Kinect spy on you.
The patent application, filed under the heading “Content Distribution Regulation by Viewing User,” proposes to use cameras and sensors like those in the Xbox 360 Kinect controller to monitor, count and in some cases identify the people in a room watching television, movies and other content. The filing refers to the technology as a “consumer detector.”

In one scenario, the system would then charge for the television show or movie based on the number of viewers in the room. Or, if the number of viewers exceeds the limits laid out by a particular content license, the system would halt playback unless additional viewing rights were purchased.
I can already hear the "but if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide" idiot brigade and I haven't even bothered looking at comment sections.
I thought it sounded creepy enough when it looked like a bunch of features, all of which sounded useful on their own, combined into something that sounded a lot like the screens from 1984. But, since the features all sound useful on their own, I doubted MS would write the software to tie them all together into a spy device. With that patent, I'm not so sure.

Then I see this paragraph:
The system could also take into account the age of viewers, limiting playback of mature content to adults, for example. This patent application doesn’t explain how that would work, but a separate Microsoft patent application last year described a system for using sensors to estimate age based on the proportions of their body.
We could write code to turn our camera off when you are watching porn. But instead we will do something that requires we keep our camera on and watching you while you masturbate.
But why get worked up when you can sit back and get "achievements" by pounding down Doritos's and Mountain Dew while watching TV.
Do any of these new consoles play games? You know, except for some CoD after you've had your fill of TV and Sports.
Lets spy on people to make sure they get fat :roll:


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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Ford Prefect » 2013-05-24 07:38pm

The invasion of privacy stuff is hilarious. I was on the fence about the product, but talk about completely killing it.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Stark » 2013-05-24 07:42pm

Owning a patent doesn't really mean anything, and since 99% of everything everyone has ever said about the Xbox has been entirely made up Chinese whispers stuff I'm not paying any attention until someone credible says something. Cause y'know, I heard it all before with the first kinect. :lol:

DOES ANYONE PLAY GAMES ANYMORE WHAT 15 TITLES INCLUDING 8 EXCLUSIVES

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Ford Prefect » 2013-05-24 08:07pm

Stark wrote:Owning a patent doesn't really mean anything, and since 99% of everything everyone has ever said about the Xbox has been entirely made up Chinese whispers stuff I'm not paying any attention until someone credible says something.
Well no shit. That's why I went and had a look at the actual source document and made my own decision based on that information. If it doesn't get implemented, that's great. While they have 'monitoring consumers in their own houses' on their drawing board, they can get fucked. You can try and frame the reporting of it however you like, but there is a freely available document which Microsoft actually wrote stating they want to do invasive shit.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by bilateralrope » 2013-05-24 08:14pm

Filing for the patent is probably just a really bad PR move.

The big difference I see between this and the first Kinect is that, as far as I'm able to tell, the new Kinect needs to stay plugged in at all times. But even that detail is very limited:
In fact, the Kinect will be used for that most fundamental of tasks: turning the whole thing on. Xbox One utilizes multiple power states; it can thus ramp up as needed and consume different amounts of juice depending on use, whether games or movies. And it also possesses a low-power standby mode, allowing Xbox Live and game updates to be pushed to the Xbox One overnight — or whenever the box knows your usage is lowest — without keeping the console all the way on. (Don’t worry; you can still play a single-player game without being connected to the Internet.) It also means that when you walk into your room and say “Xbox on,” the Kinect sensor hears you and turns on your entire setup via infrared blast: TV, Xbox One, even your cable box.
If the Kinect must stay plugged in at all times, the only thing MS needs to do to start is spying on people is change the software with an update. If the Kinect could be unplugged, all this privacy worry would die down quickly if MS would just come out and say that the Xbox One will work without it.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Ford Prefect » 2013-05-24 08:19pm

And I could put duct tape over the camera. The issue isn't what it actually does or doesn't do, but rather that the corporation behind it thinks huge invasions of privacy are good business. It's like how my concern regarding the digital property rights isn't whatever hypothetical money I'd have to pay, but rather letting Microsoft redefine how we engage with things that we purchase.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Stark » 2013-05-24 08:37pm

That already happened years ago. Their bizarre system seems more like a result of trying to marry digital distribution realities to their need to keep physical shops on-side to move their console. I bet they'd love to use a framework everyone is a-ok with like steam.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Vendetta » 2013-05-24 09:07pm

Stark wrote:
Vendetta wrote:We'll see whether Google TV achieves actual penetration on TV sets as a standardised smart interface, but I suspect it's more likely it'll just drive what the existing smart features of smart TVs do.
I'm not sure what can be worse than manufacturer TV software, to be honest. Maybe even expanding googles death grip would be better! :lol:
I think they're still in the "throw features at the consumer and see what sticks" phase.

It's all server mediated, so I'm sure they're getting loads of analytics on what people are actually doing with their smart features and will make them more relevant as time goes by.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by bilateralrope » 2013-05-24 09:56pm

Stark wrote:That already happened years ago. Their bizarre system seems more like a result of trying to marry digital distribution realities to their need to keep physical shops on-side to move their console. I bet they'd love to use a framework everyone is a-ok with like steam.
For a while now I've been hearing that the main reason that the prices of digital version of PC games are very similar to the boxed copy is that retailers threaten to not stock games where the digital version is cheaper. So publishers give in because they need the retail sales.

This bizarre system might be there so that retailers still cooperate enough that the Xbox One gets a decent userbase. Then Microsoft drops the price of digital copies and if retailers pull that threat, MS can threaten to end their second hand sale revenue. Either way the retailers are screwed. Follow through on their threat and they lose their profit from all Xbox game sales, second hand or not. Give in and they slowly die as consumers move to buying digital because it's cheaper. The end result is consumers paying less for a new game, while MS and the publisher/developer receive more for each sale at the release price.

If the price drop isn't copied by other platforms, those platforms are also screwed.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Havok » 2013-05-25 12:42pm

Ford Prefect wrote:And I could put duct tape over the camera. The issue isn't what it actually does or doesn't do, but rather that the corporation behind it thinks huge invasions of privacy are good business. It's like how my concern regarding the digital property rights isn't whatever hypothetical money I'd have to pay, but rather letting Microsoft redefine how we engage with things that we purchase.
Yeah that's all great and all but you are talking about a consumer base that lives on facebook and the rest of the internet. Clearly the current and future customer base has no issue with this "invasion of privacy".
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Havok » 2013-05-25 12:44pm

And also doesn't the law technically break down that you are leasing things you buy? Like books and stuff? And that you don't actually "own" them?
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo » 2013-05-25 12:46pm

bilateralrope wrote:If the Kinect must stay plugged in at all times, the only thing MS needs to do to start is spying on people is change the software with an update. If the Kinect could be unplugged, all this privacy worry would die down quickly if MS would just come out and say that the Xbox One will work without it.
Allowing the console to work without its bundled control accessory would defeat the purpose of including it in the box. Imagine if the Wii could function without the Wiimote. Devs would have had to design games not knowing whether the player was using a Wiimote or a standard gamepad. Wiimote functionality would have been reduced to a token gimmick, the sole selling point of the console would have been undermined, and almost no one would have bought one. The only way to replicate the Wii's success in introducing a new control interface is to make it an integral part of the console, whether or not there is a technical need for it to be.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by TheGreekDollmaker » 2013-05-25 01:10pm

Starglider wrote:
Kuja wrote:I mean...if I'm reading this right,
No, he said that total sales of 7th gen consoles (PS3 + Wii + X360) will be approx 300M and expected total sales of 8th gen consoles will be at least a third more than that. Which is completely reasonable assuming no devestating economic crash or total replacement of consoles by a different technology.
Ok, so.

The economy is shittier then it was in 2006-7, all the sectors in the US (except Oil and Gas and government, are declining, unemployment and suicides are at Great Depression era levels, the place where I live in has at certain places 75% unemployment, the EU is in the deep red...

...and they want to launch a console? Let alone, they expect the generation to have 400M sales in total?

This is insane. This generation will be the generation of who can lose the least.

This goes for all console btw. There is no way that in the middle of this depression that anybody, except the hardcore, will be willing to spent money on a new console. The new console will have to compete with the old ones. Why should I buy the Wii U, Xbox One or PS4 for a higher price and with virtually no games compared to buying say a 199$ PS3/360, or better a 129$ Wii which will have vastly superior selection of games. This just seems insane to me. All of these consoles look horrible, the Xbox One being in the bottom from what it seems.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Starglider » 2013-05-25 01:33pm

TheGreekDollmaker wrote:The economy is shittier then it was in 2006-7, all the sectors in the US (except Oil and Gas and government, are declining, unemployment and suicides are at Great Depression era levels, the place where I live in has at certain places 75% unemployment, the EU is in the deep red...
Sales are accumulated over the whole decade from launch (usually with some sales continuing even after that in developing markets). 2006/2007 might have been nice but after that were the crash and recession years. It is establishment orthodoxy that the economy will always return to a stable long term trend (with the careful guidance of our central bankers), so it is axiomatic (to mainstream analysts) that 2014 to 2024 will be similar in total to 2006 to 2016. The sales gains come from income growth particularly in developing countries, increased device capability and the cohort of consumers plugged into gaming and media devices steadily expanding. Also entertainment suffers less than other industries in recessions, because people want escapism (and likely have more free time).
This goes for all console btw. There is no way that in the middle of this depression that anybody, except the hardcore, will be willing to spent money on a new console.
I know plenty of people who autobuy the latest iPhone / iPad / iThing on release, regardless of cost. I think there's plenty of discretionary income around, just a question of can consoles still compete for gadget spend.
Why should I buy the Wii U, Xbox One or PS4 for a higher price and with virtually no games
That complaint has been made about every single console release in video game history. You are not an early adopter, we get it. Personally I bought an Xbox360 just so I could play Ace Combat 6, everything else was a bonus.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Havok » 2013-05-25 01:50pm

NEWS FLASH!!
We are a consumer/confidence based economy. If people by shit they don't need, everyone does better.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by bilateralrope » 2013-05-25 07:51pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
bilateralrope wrote:If the Kinect must stay plugged in at all times, the only thing MS needs to do to start is spying on people is change the software with an update. If the Kinect could be unplugged, all this privacy worry would die down quickly if MS would just come out and say that the Xbox One will work without it.
Allowing the console to work without its bundled control accessory would defeat the purpose of including it in the box. Imagine if the Wii could function without the Wiimote. Devs would have had to design games not knowing whether the player was using a Wiimote or a standard gamepad. Wiimote functionality would have been reduced to a token gimmick, the sole selling point of the console would have been undermined, and almost no one would have bought one. The only way to replicate the Wii's success in introducing a new control interface is to make it an integral part of the console, whether or not there is a technical need for it to be.
If the Kinect is in the box with the Xbox One, but the rest of the console can work without it, why can't developers assume that everybody has one when they know that everyone with the Xbox did purchase a Kinect ?

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Ford Prefect » 2013-05-25 08:29pm

Havok wrote:Yeah that's all great and all but you are talking about a consumer base that lives on facebook and the rest of the internet. Clearly the current and future customer base has no issue with this "invasion of privacy".
Yeah there really is no difference between a camera which tracks how many people are in your house automatically and someone deliberately mentioning they're with certain people on Facebook. None at all.
Havok wrote:And also doesn't the law technically break down that you are leasing things you buy? Like books and stuff? And that you don't actually "own" them?
At least in Australia, that is sort of but not quite the case in regards to land, which is sort of but not quite owned by the Commonwealth government. However, nobody owns personal property except you. Basically.
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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Stark » 2013-05-25 09:02pm

If they even use it (ps it was possible with the first kinect too, and patenting every possible application of your device is probably wise) unless it sends that information anywhere rather than using it internally, is it really any worse than google knowing everything about you? :V

I mean kinect could start taking pictures of everyone in your house and datamining that for advertising; then it might be about the google level.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by InsaneTD » 2013-05-25 09:03pm

Don't think this had been posted yet and my apologies if it has.

http://www.slashgear.com/xbox-one-used- ... -24283449/

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Stark » 2013-05-25 09:35pm

It's a bit sad that their lust to shut down the extremely lucrative used market means they apparently didn't bother building in simple ways to lend games, which would assauge people who believe they actually own games etc.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by bilateralrope » 2013-05-25 09:42pm

InsaneTD wrote:Don't think this had been posted yet and my apologies if it has.

http://www.slashgear.com/xbox-one-used- ... -24283449/
By running all transactions through the cloud system, Microsoft and the publisher of the game will automatically get a percentage of the resale figure. Exactly what that cut will be – and what price the retailers will be selling the games for – is unclear; MCV’s sources indicate that stores will be able to set their own figures, but Console Deals‘ sources suggest that Microsoft will permit at most a 10-percent discount from the game’s recommended retail price (RRP).
How big is the usual price difference between a new copy of that game and a second hand copy during the first month after that games release ?

The only way I can see that 10% discount limit being a problem is if the price of digital copies is less than the allowed price of second hand physical copies.
Nonetheless, if the leaks are true, the policies are unlikely to meet with a positive reaction from gamers and – as Don Reisinger wrote earlier this week – could give some cause to rethink upgrading to the new console.
Oh, they will make a lot of noise. But we should all know how these video game boycotts turn out by now. Especially when I'm seeing a lot of complaining from Steam users :roll:


I want to see the terms and conditions on this second hand sales program that don't directly relate to money changing hands. Specifically the ones that say what conditions need to be met before MS can terminate the arrangement.

Stark wrote:It's a bit sad that their lust to shut down the extremely lucrative used market means they apparently didn't bother building in simple ways to lend games, which would assauge people who believe they actually own games etc.
It sounds like people could share games by sharing their Xbox Live account.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by Stark » 2013-05-25 10:40pm

I wonder if the XBLA thing still works, where the licence is owned both by the first console to download it and the profile that paid for it. It just seems like it would have been really easy to set the system up so they'd get a slice of the used pie without actually impacting people's daily and social gameplay at all.

But then setting the used fee at $1 would probably result in no real problem, but I'm reasonably confident they'll set it as absolutely high as they think they can get away with.

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Re: So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

Post by thejester » 2013-05-26 07:42pm

Just as concerned by the change in the way content is charged for as the privacy angle TBH. It's hard to see Microsoft implementing it given (as outlined above) how marginal the One's utility as a media centre will be in the next five-ten years anyway. Stream content off an app built into the TV that doesn't monitor me, or have the live game/episode/whatever pause because my housemate wandered into the room!
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