Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

[zman]

I'll probably quit once I finish all the class storylines. They're petty much the only thing interesting about the game, and the only thing that some other game doesn't do way better.

have to disagree with that.

The Warzones are some of the best I have ever played WAY better then WoWs battlegrounds. Now they do get boring if I get the same one 2 or 3 times in a row but now that they have 5 different ones that has yet to happen.

The end game raids are solid with the new Terror From Beyond standing out as one of my top 5 all time raids. It is perfect in its design.

The Flashpoints are also a ton of fun. Standouts from that are Black Talon/Esselses, Tempest Prison/ Foundry, Colicoid War Games, The two Rakgoul ones, and False Emperor.

[TheFeniX]

The Warzones are some of the best I have ever played WAY better then WoWs battlegrounds. Now they do get boring if I get the same one 2 or 3 times in a row but now that they have 5 different ones that has yet to happen.

I don't know about the extra two warzones they added on, but SWTOR PVP is fundamentally broken. Although the Warzones were good concepts, anything would be horrible to play with the sheer amount of pre-mades, BWs inability after months to ensure even teams, the gear gap at 50, and the over-reliance on 8 vs 8. Void Star was a hallway AOE fest and Huttball made certain classes almost a requirement to play effectively. Also, everything was buggy as shit.

Claiming SWTOR PvP is anything but hilariously bad when compared to even Rift (much less WoW) is a joke. It's a soul-sucking massive grind that belongs in a Korean MMO.

The end game raids are solid with the new Terror From Beyond standing out as one of my top 5 all time raids. It is perfect in its design.

The end-game raids are buggy, broken, messes with SOA being the only fight that didn't fail in either design, execution, or gameplay. Oh yea, and we could clear EV and KP (up to SOA) in under 3 hours in Nightmare mode and we kinda sucked. I hear the new raids are about the same: wipe 4 times, win on 5th, get loots. You have to just be terrible to, bugs aside, not clear SWTOR end-game content with ease.

The Flashpoints are also a ton of fun. Standouts from that are Black Talon/Esselses, Tempest Prison/ Foundry, Colicoid War Games, The two Rakgoul ones, and False Emperor.

BT and Esseles set the bar high, only to have most of the other flashpoints turn into straight hallway loot fests. The Rakghoul ones were fun, probably because it's L4Dead in SPAAAAACE! (literally), and the False Emperor would have been a stand-out flashpoint if it (you guess it) hadn't been so fucking buggy and broken.

[zman]

The Warzones are some of the best I have ever played WAY better then WoWs battlegrounds. Now they do get boring if I get the same one 2 or 3 times in a row but now that they have 5 different ones that has yet to happen.

I don't know about the extra two warzones they added on, but SWTOR PVP is fundamentally broken. Although the Warzones were good concepts, anything would be horrible to play with the sheer amount of pre-mades, BWs inability after months to ensure even teams, the gear gap at 50, and the over-reliance on 8 vs 8. Void Star was a hallway AOE fest and Huttball made certain classes almost a requirement to play effectively. Also, everything was buggy as shit.

Claiming SWTOR PvP is anything but hilariously bad when compared to even Rift (much less WoW) is a joke. It's a soul-sucking massive grind that belongs in a Korean MMO.

The end game raids are solid with the new Terror From Beyond standing out as one of my top 5 all time raids. It is perfect in its design.

The end-game raids are buggy, broken, messes with SOA being the only fight that didn't fail in either design, execution, or gameplay. Oh yea, and we could clear EV and KP (up to SOA) in under 3 hours in Nightmare mode and we kinda sucked. I hear the new raids are about the same: wipe 4 times, win on 5th, get loots. You have to just be terrible to, bugs aside, not clear SWTOR end-game content with ease.

The Flashpoints are also a ton of fun. Standouts from that are Black Talon/Esselses, Tempest Prison/ Foundry, Colicoid War Games, The two Rakgoul ones, and False Emperor.

BT and Esseles set the bar high, only to have most of the other flashpoints turn into straight hallway loot fests. The Rakghoul ones were fun, probably because it's L4Dead in SPAAAAACE! (literally), and the False Emperor would have been a stand-out flashpoint if it (you guess it) hadn't been so fucking buggy and broken.

oh wow you haven't played in a LOOOOOOOOOONG time

Yeah they fixed all the problems you had

PVP there is no real gear gap anymore. Pre mades all do the Ranked warzones, and all the bugs in the warzone are LOOONG gone

SoA bug?? Wow way to show how long its been since you played

You beat Nightmare EC in 3 hours? Bullshit.

But yes 3 hours for a raid is the industry standard now. You can blame the MMO community for not wanting to raid for days on end

again Bugs in those flashpoints been gone for a long time.

but again all end game raid in MMOs is easy. You can blame that on the MMO community in gereral but also on youtube and everyone putting the stratagies on before the patch even leaves the test servers.

Its the same with every MMO there is no more actually playing to learn stratagy. Hardcore raiding died when Wow came out.

[Knife]

Meh, never stopped liking the game and a lot has changed since FeniX stopped. Post 50 PVP is still a grind fest shit hole till you have War Hero, but they've made it easy enough to get that, a good week grinding puts you on rough par with the PVP kiddies. Hell, it's even fun to listen to them bitch on general about how they got stomped by a shit team cuz team mate xy or z sucks. I never really PVP'd with my slinger, but got a Shadow tank up and running for the guild and pretty much love PVP with him. Hutt ball is a treat with a Shadow in a way it never was with a Sage or Gunslinger.

I'm not a hard core raider, and never have been, but the raids are fun enough and I'm doing more and more of them. Hell, we've even been doing a lot of WPVP, prior to the Gree event. I loved the Rakgoul event and the Great Aquision Race, but I've stayed away from the grief feast on Illum, minus my dailies that is.

My only bitch lately is the insane repair bills. None of my toons are uber rich, usually hovering around 1 million. Getting dinged for 100k repair bills for a shit run is getting rough. I get it, those greedy bastards with 10 mil credits out there need to be reigned in, but damn, think of the poor and working poor.

[Lord Revan]

I haven't played since january due to PC issues, but I liked it ok, sure there's problems but what games doesn't have those and I've not met any major game breaking bugs that happend consistently.

[Darksider]

How long does it usually take you guys to find a group for endgame shit like the Operations? I was wandering around the Republic fleet station for over an hour with the group queue active before I finally gave up.

The guild i'm in does weekly raiding, but I'm not well-equipped enough to tackle the ops they're doing, so I need to gear up to match them before I can join in.

[TheFeniX]

I'm glad they fixed all the shit wrong at end-game in time for the gear to be next to useless. I also don't believe for a second the gear-gap or general shittiness of SWTOR PvP has been cleaned up as I talk to a few people who still play the game and I read the SWTOR PvP forum.

Here was our raid run setup after we downed Nightmare Rancor (whatever his name was) once. KP: Rancor Hardmode, everything else Nightmare. EV Nightmare up to SOA. Then we'd flop around and decide what to do from there. All that: 9/10 bosses down: 4 hours on a good run. We had weeks we went over due to issues getting players, my bedtime (self-instated), and people fucking up trash pulls. That said, we never raiding more then 8 hours a week and 4 hours was our power through. And we weren't the only ones doing it that fast.

But it's really hard to take your post seriously with you claiming 3 hours being the norm and shit like:

but again all end game raid in MMOs is easy. You can blame that on the MMO community in gereral but also on youtube and everyone putting the stratagies on before the patch even leaves the test servers.

Its the same with every MMO there is no more actually playing to learn stratagy. Hardcore raiding died when Wow came out.

I read somewhere months back that the first guild to down Soa Nightmare took something like 8 wipes. Contrast to Heroic Ragnaros who took upwards of 250, give or take. WoW actually handles raids about the best way you can. LFR to let people experience the content. Normal mode for the baseline raiders. And Heroic for masochists.

I haven't played MoP, but the only raid in Cata you were getting through in under 3 hours was Throne of the 4 Winds. If you were powering through the other raids in that amount of time, then you still have Heroic mode and you can spend double that time on one boss.

[Losonti Tokash]

A three hour raid sounds fucking atrocious and I have no idea why something even longer would be seen as desirable.

[TheFeniX]

A three hour raid sounds fucking atrocious and I have no idea why something even longer would be seen as desirable.

That's fine. I happened to enjoy raids like that. I already have flashpoints and instances for shorter group content.

The problem with WoW raids is they're almost always story related, but 90%+ of the playerbase would never see the actual end of a storyline because they aren't going to bother min/maxing for raiding or the mentality that pervades it. With LFR, few people would have seen the (horrible) Cata ending, thus locking them out of "beating" cata. LFR should have came years ago because so few people have actually seen the end of Arthas in-game, and the same for BC and Vanilla storylines.

SWTOR has little excuse for the short loot-fests because, at least EV and KP, were completely outside the general SWTOR storyline. They had a much better reason for being a brutal grind-fest, ESPECIALLY at the higher difficulty levels. Being 8/10 Nightmare after.... 3 weeks? of raiding should not be a thing, at least not for the group of guys we had.

[zman]

A three hour raid sounds fucking atrocious and I have no idea why something even longer would be seen as desirable.

That's fine. I happened to enjoy raids like that. I already have flashpoints and instances for shorter group content.

The problem with WoW raids is they're almost always story related, but 90%+ of the playerbase would never see the actual end of a storyline because they aren't going to bother min/maxing for raiding or the mentality that pervades it. With LFR, few people would have seen the (horrible) Cata ending, thus locking them out of "beating" cata. LFR should have came years ago because so few people have actually seen the end of Arthas in-game, and the same for BC and Vanilla storylines.

SWTOR has little excuse for the short loot-fests because, at least EV and KP, were completely outside the general SWTOR storyline. They had a much better reason for being a brutal grind-fest, ESPECIALLY at the higher difficulty levels. Being 8/10 Nightmare after.... 3 weeks? of raiding should not be a thing, at least not for the group of guys we had.

EV was out of the main story line. However KP fit right in with a quest line that started on Belsavis about freeing the Dread Masters. That story continued on into EC and TFB as well as fitting in with the end game zone Section X.

Now yes for EV and KP they did make nightmare mode just scaled up bosses but like I said that ended there. EC and TFB (well TFB Hard Mode) added new boss mechanics and it took quite a long time for anyone to beat all of EC Nightmare mode. Hardmode for TFB it took over a month for the top guilds to beat it.

So like I said that was all solved long ago.

When talking about a MMO making your decision on it a year after launch shouldn't be based on the things you expereiced at launch.

MMOs evolve WoW isn't the same game 1 year after launch.

If I was to do the same thing with WoW that you did here well then I would say

Man Wow sucks it has 0 pvp, no battlegrounds, there is only 1 raid and it is boring, the game is buggy as hell and server crashes happen every other night.


Now does that fit in the WoW of today or even 1 year after launch?? No of course not.

[zman]

I'm glad they fixed all the shit wrong at end-game in time for the gear to be next to useless. I also don't believe for a second the gear-gap or general shittiness of SWTOR PvP has been cleaned up as I talk to a few people who still play the game and I read the SWTOR PvP forum.

Here was our raid run setup after we downed Nightmare Rancor (whatever his name was) once. KP: Rancor Hardmode, everything else Nightmare. EV Nightmare up to SOA. Then we'd flop around and decide what to do from there. All that: 9/10 bosses down: 4 hours on a good run. We had weeks we went over due to issues getting players, my bedtime (self-instated), and people fucking up trash pulls. That said, we never raiding more then 8 hours a week and 4 hours was our power through. And we weren't the only ones doing it that fast.

But it's really hard to take your post seriously with you claiming 3 hours being the norm and shit like:

but again all end game raid in MMOs is easy. You can blame that on the MMO community in gereral but also on youtube and everyone putting the stratagies on before the patch even leaves the test servers.

Its the same with every MMO there is no more actually playing to learn stratagy. Hardcore raiding died when Wow came out.

I read somewhere months back that the first guild to down Soa Nightmare took something like 8 wipes. Contrast to Heroic Ragnaros who took upwards of 250, give or take. WoW actually handles raids about the best way you can. LFR to let people experience the content. Normal mode for the baseline raiders. And Heroic for masochists.

I haven't played MoP, but the only raid in Cata you were getting through in under 3 hours was Throne of the 4 Winds. If you were powering through the other raids in that amount of time, then you still have Heroic mode and you can spend double that time on one boss.

I have no problem beleiving that the first guild to beat SOA when it went live only took 8 wipes as he was on the Beta for over 2months with only a few guilds beating him. So yeah on Beta it took about 200 wipes to kill him. But once that stratagy was released it was easy. Just like every boss in WoW is when the new raid goes live.

MC was not in WoWs beta. MC didn't get released till about 3 weeks after launch and no one had played him, Youtube hadn't existed and they didn't have the guides that people make for bosses in MMOs now.

I know this because I was the first person to ever make a WoW boss instructional video and I can back that up. I was one of those early raiders who had to learn all the boss fights the hard way because the best you could ever find was a poorly written stratagy on a guild website or video on Warcraftmovies that consisted of one persons perspective of the boss fight and really crappy heavy metal playing.

Thats it. So i saw the need and created the first ever WoW instructional video for Firemaw. This conssited of video and still pictures showing how to kill the boss. My videos should still be on Warcraft movies if you want to take a look at. Just look up videos by Rabbitslayer.


But back to the mainpoint ALL RAIDS IN MMOS ARE EASY NOW. Why do you think you can use LFR in WoW and beat every raid with a pug?

[zman]

How long does it usually take you guys to find a group for endgame shit like the Operations? I was wandering around the Republic fleet station for over an hour with the group queue active before I finally gave up.

The guild i'm in does weekly raiding, but I'm not well-equipped enough to tackle the ops they're doing, so I need to gear up to match them before I can join in.

Group finder works ok. Depends on what class you are and what time you try to find a group. If you are healer or tank then you can find a group in about 30mins or less. If you are DPS.... well good luck.

[Lord Revan]

How long does it usually take you guys to find a group for endgame shit like the Operations? I was wandering around the Republic fleet station for over an hour with the group queue active before I finally gave up.

The guild i'm in does weekly raiding, but I'm not well-equipped enough to tackle the ops they're doing, so I need to gear up to match them before I can join in.

Group finder works ok. Depends on what class you are and what time you try to find a group. If you are healer or tank then you can find a group in about 30mins or less. If you are DPS.... well good luck.

well that's not unique to SWTOR, in WoW DPS have 10-20 times the wait times as tanks/healers I dunno about other MMOs as I've not played those, but it seems there's always relativly fewer tanks and/or healers then there's DPS so you'll end with a long queue for DPS as there's 2 slots in the group for DPS but 10 people waiting in line to get to a group.

[TheFeniX]

I have no problem beleiving that the first guild to beat SOA when it went live only took 8 wipes as he was on the Beta for over 2months with only a few guilds beating him. So yeah on Beta it took about 200 wipes to kill him. But once that stratagy was released it was easy. Just like every boss in WoW is when the new raid goes live.

What strategy? The fight is hilariously simple. And they didn't beat Soa: they beat Soa on Nightmare difficulty.

MC was not in WoWs beta. MC didn't get released till about 3 weeks after launch and no one had played him, Youtube hadn't existed and they didn't have the guides that people make for bosses in MMOs now.

Then Karaga Nightmare mode. It took us like 5 wipes to get it down, because we had already beaten him on normal and the fight is the exact same.

But back to the mainpoint ALL RAIDS IN MMOS ARE EASY NOW. Why do you think you can use LFR in WoW and beat every raid with a pug?

500+ wipes = easy mode. "Super-awesome elite" guild who already downed the 25-man still had 32 wipes on 10-man. FeniX and 7 other dipshits down Karagga Nightmare in 5 wipes: raiding is ezmode. But wait, we watched a video.. well, our raid lead did and said "don't stand in fire and kill adds when they spawn. FeniX, keep him perpendicular to the raid and move when he spits fire." Holy shit, we never would have figured THAT out on our own.....

Not buying it, nor your "LFR killed raiding" bit. "I beat Left 4 Dead on easy mode, Expert Realism should totally be a cakewalk." And I could watch a strategy on the Hoverbike level of Battletoads 100 times and I still couldn't beat that fucking level.

Your argument completely fails because you don't understand the concept of a difficulty level. Not surprising because neither does BW. I don't know how older raiding stacks up, never cared for MMOs back then. But I do know the difference between keyboard smashing difficulty, difficult but not soul destroying, and bullshit easy mode WRT Raids/Operations. WoW has all 3. SWTOR only had the latter when I played, unless you count "raid wiping" bugs in the foremost category. Shit, their heroic instances were more overtuned than nightmare ops.

[Stark]

That's a bit of a laugh. Just the other day I had NPCs in a boss fight say 'stay out of the fire' and I thought 'wow thanks for the 'hot' tip lol'. Is that really what counts as elite hints for pros?

And Los raids used to be a full on sealed event thing; it'd be like a whole event chain (only locked in an instance and super hard). We'll try some raiding on the w/e if you want.

[zman]

I have no problem beleiving that the first guild to beat SOA when it went live only took 8 wipes as he was on the Beta for over 2months with only a few guilds beating him. So yeah on Beta it took about 200 wipes to kill him. But once that stratagy was released it was easy. Just like every boss in WoW is when the new raid goes live.

What strategy? The fight is hilariously simple. And they didn't beat Soa: they beat Soa on Nightmare difficulty.

MC was not in WoWs beta. MC didn't get released till about 3 weeks after launch and no one had played him, Youtube hadn't existed and they didn't have the guides that people make for bosses in MMOs now.

Then Karaga Nightmare mode. It took us like 5 wipes to get it down, because we had already beaten him on normal and the fight is the exact same.

But back to the mainpoint ALL RAIDS IN MMOS ARE EASY NOW. Why do you think you can use LFR in WoW and beat every raid with a pug?

500+ wipes = easy mode. "Super-awesome elite" guild who already downed the 25-man still had 32 wipes on 10-man. FeniX and 7 other dipshits down Karagga Nightmare in 5 wipes: raiding is ezmode. But wait, we watched a video.. well, our raid lead did and said "don't stand in fire and kill adds when they spawn. FeniX, keep him perpendicular to the raid and move when he spits fire." Holy shit, we never would have figured THAT out on our own.....

Not buying it, nor your "LFR killed raiding" bit. "I beat Left 4 Dead on easy mode, Expert Realism should totally be a cakewalk." And I could watch a strategy on the Hoverbike level of Battletoads 100 times and I still couldn't beat that fucking level.

Your argument completely fails because you don't understand the concept of a difficulty level. Not surprising because neither does BW. I don't know how older raiding stacks up, never cared for MMOs back then. But I do know the difference between keyboard smashing difficulty, difficult but not soul destroying, and bullshit easy mode WRT Raids/Operations. WoW has all 3. SWTOR only had the latter when I played, unless you count "raid wiping" bugs in the foremost category. Shit, their heroic instances were more overtuned than nightmare ops.

while like i said SOA is a easy boss there is still a stratagy to beating him. If you think you can beat him with out anyone in your raid playing by all means go ahead. Like i said before the problem with the first 2 raids was that the only difference between hard mode and nightmare mode was the boss had more hp and hit harder. However the 3 new raids added new mechanics in each progression making it much harder. Hence the reason it took months for people to beat EC nightmare and TFB Hard mode.

However in Beta it took months for people to beat him. Once everyone knew the fight it was easy. Just like every boss in WoW.

Not buying it, nor your "LFR killed raiding" bit. "I beat Left 4 Dead on easy mode, Expert Realism should totally be a cakewalk." And I could watch a strategy on the Hoverbike level of Battletoads 100 times and I still couldn't beat that fucking level.

You know it's not every day you hear the stupidest thing ever. Lets see one genre of games requires skill and good reflexs (FPS) and the other does not (MMOS) are you really saying that MMOs require skill?

If you are going to make stupid comments try to put SOME thought into them instead of making yourself look like a complete idiot. There is no learning process in MMOs when bosses go live. Everyone knows the attacks and how to counter them. All it is just repetion. In many ways its like dance dance revolution but with a global cooldown.

Yeah no WoW's heroics are not that hard. I know because I still play and it's much easier then when it used to be 40 mans. SWTOR does have scaling difficulites but I wouldn't expect someone who has only played up to KP to understand that. Perhaps if you have ever played TFB or EC then we could talk. But since you have no idea about those fights or mechanics you are WAY out of your league here kid.

[TheFeniX]

You know it's not every day you hear the stupidest thing ever. Lets see one genre of games requires skill and good reflexs (FPS) and the other does not (MMOS) are you really saying that MMOs require skill?

You start off praising how new SWTOR raids are difficult, then go on to bag that MMOs require no skill. Which is it? Do you really have this limited understanding of what skill is or are you just being dishonest to prove a point?

If you are going to make stupid comments try to put SOME thought into them instead of making yourself look like a complete idiot. There is no learning process in MMOs when bosses go live. Everyone knows the attacks and how to counter them. All it is just repetion. In many ways its like dance dance revolution but with a global cooldown.

You talk about repetition not being related to skill and reflexes when repetition is one of the key components of both of them. So blow the condescension out your ass.

I can just imagine you heckling guitar players at concerts with "That's not really skill, you just practiced a lot."

Yeah no WoW's heroics are not that hard. I know because I still play and it's much easier then when it used to be 40 mans. SWTOR does have scaling difficulites but I wouldn't expect someone who has only played up to KP to understand that. Perhaps if you have ever played TFB or EC then we could talk. But since you have no idea about those fights or mechanics you are WAY out of your league here kid.

Hey there Mr. B.net poster. I was waiting for you to show up. What's next "lol no Kinglsayer, why you post in my thread bro?" I only played up to KP because SWTOR was a gigantic shit-fest when it came out and was still a shitfest when I left. You vanilla WoW raiders are always so cute. "40 man was harder." Getting 40 people to do anything without it turning into a cluster-fuck is difficult. Lowering the player-count to increase exposure and focusing on mechanics other than straight DPS races was one of the best moves Blizzard did for raiding and one SWTOR totally passed the buck on. Raiders are just mad the average person could horn in on their club without devoting their whole lives to dealing with a raiding guild's drama.

Also, I read/watched up on the fights for the new SWTOR operations. Not impressed. And this is relevant because, by watching a video, I know everything there is possible to know about these fights.

you are WAY out of your league here kid.

On a serious note, this might have sounded cutting in your head, but all I get is the image of a 13-year-old spouting garbage over XBLive.

[Stark]

Its bizarre to me to read this sort of thing because (as Fenix says) lowering the barriers to entry for raid content (and all kinds of endgame content in general) was a big part of what happened in WoW and then the rest of the MMO genre that didn't suck over the last few years. Did Bioware just not notice? Did they think people still expected a game where only a small fraction of players would ever see some of the content?

I mean people bitch in other games where you need to rustle up a whole 6-8 people for some storyline content.

[zman]

Its bizarre to me to read this sort of thing because (as Fenix says) lowering the barriers to entry for raid content (and all kinds of endgame content in general) was a big part of what happened in WoW and then the rest of the MMO genre that didn't suck over the last few years. Did Bioware just not notice? Did they think people still expected a game where only a small fraction of players would ever see some of the content?

I mean people bitch in other games where you need to rustle up a whole 6-8 people for some storyline content.

no they expected people to roll multiple alts to see all the stories as that was one of the big pieces of feedback they got. In SWtor rolling alts is part of the end game as many of the stories tie in together.

[Stark]

I don't think you've really understood how I'm replying to what Fenix said.

[zman]

You know it's not every day you hear the stupidest thing ever. Lets see one genre of games requires skill and good reflexs (FPS) and the other does not (MMOS) are you really saying that MMOs require skill?

You start off praising how new SWTOR raids are difficult, then go on to bag that MMOs require no skill. Which is it? Do you really have this limited understanding of what skill is or are you just being dishonest to prove a point?

If you are going to make stupid comments try to put SOME thought into them instead of making yourself look like a complete idiot. There is no learning process in MMOs when bosses go live. Everyone knows the attacks and how to counter them. All it is just repetion. In many ways its like dance dance revolution but with a global cooldown.

You talk about repetition not being related to skill and reflexes when repetition is one of the key components of both of them. So blow the condescension out your ass.

I can just imagine you heckling guitar players at concerts with "That's not really skill, you just practiced a lot."

Yeah no WoW's heroics are not that hard. I know because I still play and it's much easier then when it used to be 40 mans. SWTOR does have scaling difficulites but I wouldn't expect someone who has only played up to KP to understand that. Perhaps if you have ever played TFB or EC then we could talk. But since you have no idea about those fights or mechanics you are WAY out of your league here kid.

Hey there Mr. B.net poster. I was waiting for you to show up. What's next "lol no Kinglsayer, why you post in my thread bro?" I only played up to KP because SWTOR was a gigantic shit-fest when it came out and was still a shitfest when I left. You vanilla WoW raiders are always so cute. "40 man was harder." Getting 40 people to do anything without it turning into a cluster-fuck is difficult. Lowering the player-count to increase exposure and focusing on mechanics other than straight DPS races was one of the best moves Blizzard did for raiding and one SWTOR totally passed the buck on. Raiders are just mad the average person could horn in on their club without devoting their whole lives to dealing with a raiding guild's drama.

Also, I read/watched up on the fights for the new SWTOR operations. Not impressed. And this is relevant because, by watching a video, I know everything there is possible to know about these fights.

you are WAY out of your league here kid.

On a serious note, this might have sounded cutting in your head, but all I get is the image of a 13-year-old spouting garbage over XBLive.

ummm it's both

yes MMOs are easy and require no skill compared to games like FPS where reaction time is a major factor.

Anyone can beat the hardest of all the raids in MMOs. It will take time but no skill. MMOs are grind fest all of them.


I find it funny how you call SWTOR a shitfest yet you say you keep up to date about it and post on forums about it. Why?

I hate The Transformers movies but I would never waste my time writting lengthy hate posts about it or watching them as you seem to be doing with SWTOR.


But this all comes back to the main point. MMOs are living games. They change over time. SWTOR at launch which you played is nothing like SWTOR of today. To make assumptions as you do is just evidence of your ignorance. Just like WoW of launch is nothing like WoW of Burning Crusade, or WoW of Lich King, or WoW of Cataclysim or WoW of Pandaria.

PRO TIP. The version number of game is to indicate the changes made to it. Going from a 1.0 to a 2.0 is much larger change then 1.0 to 1.1

By its very nature you should have realized that SWTOR is a different game now then it used to be.



BTW I'm not at all angry that Raids are no longer 40 mans. Sure it was fun and more rewarding when you killed a boss like C'thun but i no longer have time for raids like that. Overall I have a lot of fun Raiding WoW now it's no where near as hectic and dosen't feel like a waste of my time since I can complete all the raids in 2 hours. Same with SWTOR.

If SWTOR is such a shitfest why do you care about it?

[TheFeniX]

yes MMOs are easy and require no skill compared to games like FPS where reaction time is a major factor. Anyone can beat the hardest of all the raids in MMOs. It will take time but no skill. MMOs are grind fest all of them.

That you don't understand why this argument means nothing is the real problem here. I honestly think you're just playing dumb because no one who has even stepped foot in a raid could honestly say reaction time isn't a major factor in MMOs.

But this all comes back to the main point. MMOs are living games. They change over time. SWTOR at launch which you played is nothing like SWTOR of today. To make assumptions as you do is just evidence of your ignorance. Just like WoW of launch is nothing like WoW of Burning Crusade, or WoW of Lich King, or WoW of Cataclysim or WoW of Pandaria.

I never came into this thread saying I had played anything past KP, so quit acting like that's what I'm claiming. SWG made a lot of changes over the years too. Most of them were fucking horrible and I kept up with the game even though I quit a few months after the Combat Upgrade.

I'm a huge whore to the SW establishment. Who knew!? Honestly, now it's mainly about seeing just how far EA and (what's left of) BW can violate the half-dead body of SWTOR before they sell it off to illegal organ fences.

[CaptHawkeye]

I hate The Transformers movies but I would never waste my time writting lengthy hate posts about it or watching them as you seem to be doing with SWTOR.

If SWTOR is such a shitfest why do you care about it?

I literally cannot get over how absolutely fucking stupid you are. You have no idea how pathetic your whole Self-Appointed Defense Attorney act is. Sadly their are actually a lot of people like you out there in the video game industry. Valiantly defending the rights of multi-million dollar brand names and their right to increasingly ask more and more of consumers while delivering less and less. What a true hero you are.

[zman]

yes MMOs are easy and require no skill compared to games like FPS where reaction time is a major factor. Anyone can beat the hardest of all the raids in MMOs. It will take time but no skill. MMOs are grind fest all of them.

That you don't understand why this argument means nothing is the real problem here. I honestly think you're just playing dumb because no one who has even stepped foot in a raid could honestly say reaction time isn't a major factor in MMOs.

But this all comes back to the main point. MMOs are living games. They change over time. SWTOR at launch which you played is nothing like SWTOR of today. To make assumptions as you do is just evidence of your ignorance. Just like WoW of launch is nothing like WoW of Burning Crusade, or WoW of Lich King, or WoW of Cataclysim or WoW of Pandaria.

I never came into this thread saying I had played anything past KP, so quit acting like that's what I'm claiming. SWG made a lot of changes over the years too. Most of them were fucking horrible and I kept up with the game even though I quit a few months after the Combat Upgrade.

I'm a huge whore to the SW establishment. Who knew!? Honestly, now it's mainly about seeing just how far EA and (what's left of) BW can violate the half-dead body of SWTOR before they sell it off to illegal organ fences.

rofl you are still trying to claim that MMOs require skill. That is funny kid.

actually yes you did you said you quit after KP meaning you have played less then half of the end game content. You also said you haven't played any of the new warzones.

so your whole reason for keeping up with the game is because you are a whore???

wow ummm ok

[TheFeniX]

rofl you are still trying to claim that MMOs require skill. That is funny kid.

Skill is a relative term. That you don't understand this is either trolling or lack of intelligence. I'm betting it's a bit of both. Yes, MMOs, particularly PvP and endgame PvE definitely require skill. That many people can develop these skills is irrelevant.

actually yes you did you said you quit after KP meaning you have played less then half of the end game content. You also said you haven't played any of the new warzones.

No shit? Your point? And at that time, I completed all the endgame PvE content (Nightmare Soa aside).