Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

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zman
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by zman »

TheFeniX wrote:
zman wrote:rofl you are still trying to claim that MMOs require skill. That is funny kid.
Skill is a relative term. That you don't understand this is either trolling or lack of intelligence. I'm betting it's a bit of both. Yes, MMOs, particularly PvP and endgame PvE definitely require skill. That many people can develop these skills is irrelevant.
actually yes you did you said you quit after KP meaning you have played less then half of the end game content. You also said you haven't played any of the new warzones.
No shit? Your point? And at that time, I completed all the endgame PvE content (Nightmare Soa aside).
.... oh wow.... now you are saying MMO PVP requires skill...

i didn't think you could sink any lower.

yes you played the 2 raids they had after month 2. We are now at month 14 with 4 raids with a 5th on the test server..

Again see statement about judging current WoW by it's launch. Your views on SWTOR launch have nothing to do with current SWTOR.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by RogueIce »

So, for anyone still playing, have you gotten Rise of the Hutt Cartel? How is that doing so far?

I did note that in 2.1 they'll finally be giving you armor dyes. Which, as usual it seems, is being introduced the dumbest way possible by having it be a single slot on your armor. And you can get a primary color, secondary color, or primary/secondary dye. Which means if you want your Trooper to rock, say, Blue/Black armor you'd better hope EA sees fit to provide or sucks to be you.

I don't know offhand how it'll be offered in game. Probably Cartel Coins because they're money-grubbing jerks. I do know they're offering a character redesign that's CC-bought only, apparently. I suppose the best you can hope is that dyes and a redesign token will be able to be sold on the GTN and that they won't charge 50 million credits or something stupid like that.

Again all I can think about is comparisons to the STO in-game tailor, its ability to customize your look and change the color options on your uniform, all for in-game currency...
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by Knife »

I'm still playing, and still having fun.

Makeb was fun, finished it on two toons now, the new HM's are just fine. Challenging enough not to facestomp, not so hard as to go broke on repairs. Not to fond of the seeker quests and stuff, but good try. If anything, I've been more amused by the PVP kiddies wailing and gnashing their teeth on 55 PVP. They introduced bolster for all brackets so the gear gap is smaller. Casual PVPers are no longer stomped, people with EWH still cry their gear means nothing now. A lot of elite PVPers have discovered their not covered in awesome sauce they thought they were. It's been pretty amusing. My guild is just starting our Ops progression for 2.0 so we'll see.

On the dye, not a big deal for me. There has been the option to coordinate colors on your toon for a while now. Between that and custom gear, I can make my toon look like what ever I want. I know a lot of people have been pining for dyes, but it's not a big deal for me, so... whatever. I also came from LOTRO, so I'm used to cosmetic things being available in the 'store', so the all the crying over that seems silly to me as well.

All in all, I think the game is just getting better and better. The massive population crash and server merges was so last year, servers seem stable, plenty of people in game, progression keeps going, and PVPers keep crying. All is well in the world.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by RogueIce »

Knife wrote:On the dye, not a big deal for me. There has been the option to coordinate colors on your toon for a while now. Between that and custom gear, I can make my toon look like what ever I want. I know a lot of people have been pining for dyes, but it's not a big deal for me, so... whatever. I also came from LOTRO, so I'm used to cosmetic things being available in the 'store', so the all the crying over that seems silly to me as well.
I think on the dye front it's cool just so you can try to do new things. To take a Trooper example, IIRC there's no armor that really has the "correct" look for, say, the Havoc armor your squad wears on Ord Mantell. There's some armor with the same design but not in the right color, so in theory the dyes could fix that. Or let you have the white/blue like the NPCs on the fleet which I don't think is really offered anywhere.

Or for me what I'd like to do is have a white secondary color to make it all blend in so I can totally rock an OT looking Stormie. :D

I wonder if the color match will still work properly if you, say, just color the chest piece but nothing else.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by malguslover »

I"m still playing and still loving it. It is so much better then SWG.

They just did their new Bounty Contract monthly event and its really cool. Oh and they added an Ewok companion which honestly is really bad ass.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by TheFeniX »

Are we talking post-NGE SWG, which was a bastardized version of WoW with a pittance of the balancing and content support? You know, like SWTOR would be 10 years later? Amazingly, SWTOR still has loads less content than SWG, which is to be expected from a themepark MMO.

That bounty contract update looks like weak-sauce. Actual bounty-hunters had to work for their shit. Hunting Jedi man.... fucking Jedi. Thankfully, they needed to kill BHs about as much as I needed to kill them and my build/gear was hella-broken in 1vs1.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by malguslover »

TheFeniX wrote:Are we talking post-NGE SWG, which was a bastardized version of WoW with a pittance of the balancing and content support? You know, like SWTOR would be 10 years later? Amazingly, SWTOR still has loads less content than SWG, which is to be expected from a themepark MMO.

That bounty contract update looks like weak-sauce. Actual bounty-hunters had to work for their shit. Hunting Jedi man.... fucking Jedi. Thankfully, they needed to kill BHs about as much as I needed to kill them and my build/gear was hella-broken in 1vs1.
what? How does SWTOR have less content then SWG? I really want to hear this
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

Galaxies created its own content just by existing and people playing it. My god, the hours spent patrolling spaceports for Rebel scum and managing an Imperial city and crafting shit to stock the vendors and move harvesters and organize a timed hit on a deployed Rebel base.

Very hard to do that stuff in SWTOR. I'm looking forward to the housing and guild ships, but it's still got nothing on Galaxies.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by malguslover »

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Galaxies created its own content just by existing and people playing it. My god, the hours spent patrolling spaceports for Rebel scum and managing an Imperial city and crafting shit to stock the vendors and move harvesters and organize a timed hit on a deployed Rebel base.

Very hard to do that stuff in SWTOR. I'm looking forward to the housing and guild ships, but it's still got nothing on Galaxies.
yeah that's just one thing. SWTOR still has tons more content then SWG
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

I really can't argue with a statement that vacuous.

gg
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

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malguslover wrote:what? How does SWTOR have less content then SWG? I really want to hear this
The faction war alone was as big or bigger than SWTOR. Tim spent months working his way up the ranks, running from planet to planet for different missions, including PvE and PvP. World PvP mattered because you could actually control pretty much every city. Huge brawls between Rebel Scum and Imperial Fascists were a common occurrence, not just for griefing. And that shit was really just a mini-game because you weren't forced to pick a side. You could be some random jack-hole just selling your wares to either side or other neutrals.

The crafting system was orders of magnitude more useful and prevalent than the "My First Craftsman" shit of most MMOs, including WoW. Large swaths of players didn't even bother with combat and that was completely viable. SWTOR conversely forced you into questing within the early life on the game due to nerfing money and XP rewards from Flashpoints (which was always garbage) and PvP.

SWTOR lacks any real diversity, merely carbon copying WoW (or really DnD) classes and renaming the abilities. And your class selection only matters for combat. Nothing differentiates them in any way aside from the Faction conflict story resolution. Even leveling content is handled the exact same: via body count. I could murder 1,000,000 swamp rats and never get a single XP as a bounty hunter in SWG. Nor could a dancer, medic, politician, tamer, or the innumerable "classes" available to Pre-NGE characters. They had completely different grinds to deal with. Some were as easy as dancing in a club for tips. Others were a massive adventure spanning multiple planets to find the right mobs/whatever for XP or just finding a damned trainer.

That really highlights the content differences between themepark and sandbox MMOs. Kids these days think millions of dollars in voice-actors and hilariously clunky animations is somehow a lot of content when compared to the player having to generate their own content. I could "level" a dancer in less than a day by never leaving Coronet. Same for a medic depending on the circumstances. Then I could smash my head against the wall trying to become a Master Bounty Hunter and running all across the galaxy while doing so. That's content. Not "go here and kill 10 imperials and collect 15 Bantha turds."

This completely ignores the player community being a very large part of the content. Player owned and controlled cities also lead to sometimes hilarious role-playing opportunities that really couldn't exist in a themepark MMO.

SWG had some major issues. Such as long travel times, mostly empty (but huge) planets: but there was more than enough content to last one character per server. Meanwhile, by Bioware's own admission when confronted by the endgame playerbase having nothing worthwhile to do was "level another character, also legacy because we are completely bankrupt on ideas here."
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by malguslover »

TheFeniX wrote:
malguslover wrote:what? How does SWTOR have less content then SWG? I really want to hear this
The faction war alone was as big or bigger than SWTOR. Tim spent months working his way up the ranks, running from planet to planet for different missions, including PvE and PvP. World PvP mattered because you could actually control pretty much every city. Huge brawls between Rebel Scum and Imperial Fascists were a common occurrence, not just for griefing. And that shit was really just a mini-game because you weren't forced to pick a side. You could be some random jack-hole just selling your wares to either side or other neutrals.

The crafting system was orders of magnitude more useful and prevalent than the "My First Craftsman" shit of most MMOs, including WoW. Large swaths of players didn't even bother with combat and that was completely viable. SWTOR conversely forced you into questing within the early life on the game due to nerfing money and XP rewards from Flashpoints (which was always garbage) and PvP.

SWTOR lacks any real diversity, merely carbon copying WoW (or really DnD) classes and renaming the abilities. And your class selection only matters for combat. Nothing differentiates them in any way aside from the Faction conflict story resolution. Even leveling content is handled the exact same: via body count. I could murder 1,000,000 swamp rats and never get a single XP as a bounty hunter in SWG. Nor could a dancer, medic, politician, tamer, or the innumerable "classes" available to Pre-NGE characters. They had completely different grinds to deal with. Some were as easy as dancing in a club for tips. Others were a massive adventure spanning multiple planets to find the right mobs/whatever for XP or just finding a damned trainer.

That really highlights the content differences between themepark and sandbox MMOs. Kids these days think millions of dollars in voice-actors and hilariously clunky animations is somehow a lot of content when compared to the player having to generate their own content. I could "level" a dancer in less than a day by never leaving Coronet. Same for a medic depending on the circumstances. Then I could smash my head against the wall trying to become a Master Bounty Hunter and running all across the galaxy while doing so. That's content. Not "go here and kill 10 imperials and collect 15 Bantha turds."

This completely ignores the player community being a very large part of the content. Player owned and controlled cities also lead to sometimes hilarious role-playing opportunities that really couldn't exist in a themepark MMO.

SWG had some major issues. Such as long travel times, mostly empty (but huge) planets: but there was more than enough content to last one character per server. Meanwhile, by Bioware's own admission when confronted by the endgame playerbase having nothing worthwhile to do was "level another character, also legacy because we are completely bankrupt on ideas here."
what? You must be talking about the NGE because PRE NGE you got XP by using the skills so killing 10000 swamp rats as a BH would give you xp in that skill that were using. I know because I was a pistoleer bounty hunter and i had to grind millions of mobs to get xp.

I remember PVP but nothing really meaningful. It was also horribly unbalaced as Combat medics could 1 shot anyone by attacking their mind points.

Crafting yeah SWG had a deep crafting system it was better.

However SWG was severely lacking in armor and costumes. It wasn't until Rage of the Wookies that any new armor got introduced. Before that the game had 6 sets. Rebel, Stormtrooper, Padded, Chitten, Composite (which everyone had) and one other that i can't remember.

As for classes in SWG ehhh it wasnt that diverse. it had a lot of classes but they were all very similar. Yeah it had dancer and musician but when it came to combat classes there was little variaty. The dancers, musicians, and doctors all had macros. People would just set the macro and go to work. Come home and see how much money they made. That is not fun in anyway.

Your options for leveling your skills were very limited. Go grind mobs or go grind mission terminal missions. Which were Go here and kill 3 mobs then wait and kill 3 more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcOXm2hstE4

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcOXm2hstE4[/youtube]
serioulsly? You dare to bash SWTORs questing experience?

If you think SWTORs classes are carbon copies of Wow you are gravely mistaken. Yes Warrior is your standard warrior class however BH/Trooper, SNiper/Gunslinger, Operative/Scoundrel, and especially the Assaisn/Shadow are truely unique classes.

Yeah we had to generate our own content in SWG but that's because THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO! I was paying 14.99 a month to do all the work. In SWTOR i am at least immersed in the Universe.

Player controled cities? really you mean the ghost towns? Try playing the EMU you will see those rose colored glasses change to brown. SWG was fun but its not as good as you remember.


Yes in SWTOR rolling an alt is a form of end game that's because the stories tie into each other. In SWG rolling a Sharpshooter over a Trooper makes no difference to the experinece

There is a reason why SWG peaked at 350k subs and fell rapidly.

http://rubenfield.com/?p=86
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by Mr Bean »

I miss my bioengineer
And I miss Skippy my loyal mouse made up of 40% rancor DNA for damage and hitpoints and everything else was a wild mishmash of multi-generational DNA sampling so I had a small mouse with the hitpoints of a tank, the ability to inflict every single status effect in the game and a crazy fast attack speed. Damage was nothing to write home about but having some Jedi start bleeping, blinded, snared, poisoned and dizzy and randomly getting knocked down every thirty seconds was great. Sure a smart Jedi could sleep it or just kill it but that's were hiding it directly behind myself came in such use.

Old Republic I got enjoyment out of and mechanically the theme park was a fun ride but I put far more time into SWG than SWTOR

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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by TheFeniX »

malguslover wrote:what? You must be talking about the NGE because PRE NGE you got XP by using the skills so killing 10000 swamp rats as a BH would give you xp in that skill that were using. I know because I was a pistoleer bounty hunter and i had to grind millions of mobs to get xp.
You could not become a Master Bounty Hunter by solely grinding shit mobs. Otherwise, I'd have done so.
I remember PVP but nothing really meaningful. It was also horribly unbalaced as Combat medics could 1 shot anyone by attacking their mind points.
As opposed to Agents/Scoundrels killing you in 2-3 GCDs with buff stacking or Smash spec Guardians getting 15k crits every 45 seconds? Or, root, root, stun, knockback, root, stun, knockback, shit-fest that SWTOR is (and WoW would become)?
However SWG was severely lacking in armor and costumes. It wasn't until Rage of the Wookies that any new armor got introduced. Before that the game had 6 sets. Rebel, Stormtrooper, Padded, Chitten, Composite (which everyone had) and one other that i can't remember.
Ubese armor. And, even though it was just copying SW movie stuff, it still looked better than 99% of the crap that came out of SWTOR. More content != better content.
As for classes in SWG ehhh it wasnt that diverse. it had a lot of classes but they were all very similar. Yeah it had dancer and musician but when it came to combat classes there was little variaty. The dancers, musicians, and doctors all had macros. People would just set the macro and go to work. Come home and see how much money they made. That is not fun in anyway.
So, having a class that could make money via macro isn't content? It isn't diverse? Then how about this: Pistol, Carbine, and Rifle actually had range differences in SWG. And this is another point you're completely wrong on: people do have fun doing shit I would consider inane. That's something SWG taught me. Before that game, I had never run into another player online who's gaming interest didn't revolve around taking an enemy's health to 0. In my guild, I was taken along as protection for a few of our gatherers or Rebels because they needed a combat class for protection. How fucking cool was that?

Now, every MMO copies WoW in that, every class has to not only be able kill things, but kill things just as well as everyone else so they can all do the same content, over and over and over again.
Your options for leveling your skills were very limited. Go grind mobs or go grind mission terminal missions. Which were Go here and kill 3 mobs then wait and kill 3 more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcOXm2hstE4
As opposed to the talking mission terminals of SWTOR? Aside from that, the Faction War did have "talking" quest givers.
If you think SWTORs classes are carbon copies of Wow you are gravely mistaken. Yes Warrior is your standard warrior class however BH/Trooper, SNiper/Gunslinger, Operative/Scoundrel, and especially the Assaisn/Shadow are truely unique classes.
I can't take you seriously when you claim Scoundrels aren't carbon copies of every rogue class ever made ever. They even had the novelty of killing people in stun-locks (or close to it) that World of Roguecraft Rogues had.
Yeah we had to generate our own content in SWG but that's because THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO! I was paying 14.99 a month to do all the work. In SWTOR i am at least immersed in the Universe.
How are you immersed in a universe that doesn't react to anything you do aside from "player completed X quest, load Y content."
Player controled cities? really you mean the ghost towns? Try playing the EMU you will see those rose colored glasses change to brown. SWG was fun but its not as good as you remember.
I never said it was all that good. It was however a much better experience than SWTOR and we had enough faction battlers to make it entertaining. As for ghost towns, I point you to Illum that was mishandled so perfectly by BW, for more than a few months they did everything they could to keep you off the planet it was so terrible.
Yes in SWTOR rolling an alt is a form of end game that's because the stories tie into each other.
That's the dumbest fucking thing I've read today (likely all week) and it's only 10am.
In SWG rolling a Sharpshooter over a Trooper makes no difference to the experinece
And by leveling a new alt, you will experience 90% of the same content in SWTOR. That 10% doesn't make me want to do 90% of the same boring quests again. But since I can't level in PvP or Flashpoints, I have to do it.
There is a reason why SWG peaked at 350k subs and fell rapidly.
350k was great numbers back then. SOE dropped the ball and instead of small changes to fix the crafting system and PvP, decide to go with sweeping changes in the Combat Upgrade. When WoW came along, SOE saw all the money they weren't making and basically gutted their own game to copy it.
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by malguslover »

You could not become a Master Bounty Hunter by solely grinding shit mobs. Otherwise, I'd have done so.
Did i say Master bounty hunter? You just said you couldn't level your bounty hunter by killing mobs which is untrue that was the only way to level up your skills in SWG was by killing mobs using the skills

You didn't get XP in lightning canons for turing in missions


OK i see you haven't played SWTOR in over a year then possibly since launch because all your info about it is serioulsy out of date.

1. Agents/Scoundrals can't kill anyone in 2 to 3 hits that has been like that in a long time. Smash spec guaridans? really? its been a long time

2. oh sure a lot of the armor is crap but having several thousands types of armor if 99% are bad that still leaves more options then 6. There is far more varity in SWTOR and you rarely see clones of yourself like you did in SWG. In SWG everyone looked the same.

3. Yes running a macro and walking away from your computer IS NOT PLAYING A GAME

4.SWTORs weapons also have range differnce.

5. did you watch the video? Yeah in SWTOR there is nothing even remotley close to the Mission terminals in SWG. Since you didn't watch it I will descrbie it.

Your mission is go to X location and destroy the nest of swamp rats. You get there fire at the nest 3 swamp rats come out. You kill them shoot the nest again 3 more come out. Rinse and repeat till the nest is gone. THAT IS EVERY SINGLE MISSION from the terminals in SWG.

6. I have yet to see a ranged rogue class that is also a healer. Let me know when you find one

7. Same reason i'm immersed when i watch Star Wars, the story pulls me in. SWG had 0 story

8. Again you haven't played in a long time. Illum is now an insane hot spot for PVP during the Gree. Its the most balanced open world combat out there because while there are over 100 players there they are all at most in groups of 4 which leads to insane free for all fights. In SWG the side with the large team won.

9. again its a Bioware game Story is king and the stories are completely different for each class.

10. You can level up completely by only do class quests. I've done it its not hard. Not to mention its not even close to 90% recycled content. I have leveled 4 characters 2 rep 2 imps with out reclying any content. How you might ask? Easy only do the planet quests on every other planet. So your first run through you see half of the content.


Can't level through PVP or Flashpoints? Ok now your just making shit up. You have ALWAYS been able to do it. I"ve leveled a character exclusviely through PVP and it was actually faster then through questing.

11. Finally no 350k was not great read the link i provided. SWG DEVELOPER even says it wasnt great

http://rubenfield.com/?p=86
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Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic - Now Free to Play

Post by TheFeniX »

I'm going to cut this down and focus on the original argument of "Content" because I know based on the name and the posting content exactly where this is going and I don't care to argue this all over again like I did on the SWTOR forums (and here to a lesser extent).

You claim that SWG "classes" were all very similar which is easily disproved since many of them didn't bother with combat at all. Those that did branched out into all kinds of types of DPS/Tank roles such as debuffing, long-range damage, short-range, melee, pet abilities, among other side-buff granted by other professions. These profs could be mixed in match to create innumerable amounts of builds. That many of them weren't all that viable isn't the point. Meanwhile, every single class in SWTOR relies on the basic triumverate and is hard-coded in the advanced class you take.

And somehow, this means SWTOR has better class diversity.

SWTOR has "several thousand" (citation needed) armor sets and this means the content was greater in this area. Which actually could be true due to how easily you can shit out armors these days. However, this also conveniently ignores that "armor" was not the end-all to clothing options in SWG because the game wasn't completely focused on combat.

Focusing on the mission terminals (1 type of mission from 1 type of terminal, mind you) somehow proves SWTOR has loads more questing content even thought mission terminals were really only a way to get money and usually a side-way advantage to increasing your actual skills.

Meanwhile, the mass exodus of players from SWTOR was in no small part due to the lack of a decent endgame. And this wasn't a problem in a game like SWG because the journey was part of the experience, but in a themepark MMO, once all the movies are over, you have to give the playerbase something to do. Nightmare OPs full-clear in 4 hours, dailes that let you buy garbage gear, and instanced PvP were not the answers. SWTOR lacked (and probably still does) time-dump content like SWG was rife with and WoW keeps enough to generally hold on to a large section of it's playerbase.

The only area that SWTOR beats out SWG in content is really in what's spoon-fed to you. In SWG, I was FeniX. I hunted all manner of scum, including Jedi. As a Master Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer, I was feared by many. My skills were sought for all manner of insanity. From protecting Rebel faction helpers to escorting players through dangerous territory. Shit, I got paid once just to stand around with my Bounty Hunter title on so some RPer could intimidate another guild leader (or something, I really didn't care).

In one of my only bouts of RPing in an MMO, the guy who hired me had me say something to let the other guy know how dangerous I was. All I could think to say was "Fancy speeches cost extra."

My guildmates kept me in all the best gear because my skills were valuable as few of them specced so deep into combat skills. I would get whispers from random players offering me large sums of money to train them in my skills. Such services were offered freely to members of the Rebel Alliance. Imperials would be offered only my spite (but I'd train them for free anyways because I wasn't a douche). Still, as things go, only a cog in the wheel of the galaxy at large.

10 years later, Jedi Guardian FeniX slew the emperor, then sat around the fleet all day looking for PvP queues to pop because we full-cleared all the Nightmare raid content (with 2 exceptions) in 4 hours and Ilum was dead. A mighty hero indeed.
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