Broadband Connection Help

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Revy
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Broadband Connection Help

Postby Revy » 2012-04-12 02:44pm

Okay, I hope this is the right place to ask. It's driving me crazy.

I have my telephone socket in my front porch. My living room is at the opposite end of the house. In order to have my telephone and computer work in my living room where I want it, I have to use a telephone extension cable. Now for over a year and a half I had no problem with this setup. About a week ago though I lost my net connection and eventually traced the problem to the extension cable. When I plugged my filter straight into the phone socket without the extension, my broadband connected just fine. When I use the extension my telephone works, but my broadband does not.

Okay, so it must be the extension I said. So I bought a new one. That one had the same problem - would let my phone work fine but not my broadband. So I went back to the shop and bought another one, and that also had the exact same problem. So I instead buy online an extension cable from a different company, one specifically stated to support broadband internet. It just arrived and it had the same goddamn problem.

Now the thing is I have a spare router, spare filters and spare DSL cables, and I have tried using all of them. They all work exactly the same - as in they work fine if plugged directly into the phone socket, but none of them work at all when I try and use any telephone extension lead. Despite using an extension lead just fine for almost two years without issue, now all of a sudden it seems impossible for me to get an internet connection if I use one.

What is going on?! Is it a problem with the extension lead? Because I have three brand new leads, none of which work (at least not for my internet, they all allow my phone to work fine). Is it my modem/router? I've tried two of them and they both have the same issue - works fine when not using extension, doesn't work when I do use one. And I have used an extension fine before. It's just now that my broadband seems to have mysteriously decided not to work with an extension.

Could it be my internet service provider? They've been trying to pressure me into accepting a new router, on the grounds that doing so forces me to accept a year long contract with them. I'm not going to do that if my router works fine and they're just pissing around with the settings on their end to try and force me into a contract with them.

ARGH. Please can someone help.

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby SCRawl » 2012-04-12 02:51pm

This line here gave me pause:

When I plugged my filter straight into the phone socket without the extension, my broadband connected just fine.


My DSL works by having filters for the phones, not the DSL modem; if you put the filter between the modem and the telephone jack you won't get the Internet. Assuming yours works the same way, have you made an error in typing or is this just a big brain fart with the filter?

(Aside from this I don't know. Sorry.)
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Revy
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Revy » 2012-04-12 02:59pm

Uhh ... that's not how my DSL works. It is actually impossible for me to run my DSL/broadband without using a filter. My phone socket only accepts one kind of plug, and that is a telephone plug. In order to use internet of any kind I must plug my DSL cable into a filter (along with my telephone itself if I want to use my phone and internet together) and the filter into the phone socket. As far as I know, in this country you physically cannot plug a router/DSL directly into the main phone socket.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby SCRawl » 2012-04-12 03:02pm

Ah. Well, here in the part of Canada where I live the DSL modem has a port for the telephone cable, which uses an RJ-11 phone cord to go between it and the jack, and has an RJ-45 port to go to the router. The telephones must have filters (RJ-11 again) which run between them and the jack, or else the whole system goes kaput.

This is, I'm sure, interesting, but won't help you with your problem.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby ANGELUS » 2012-04-13 01:11pm

Sounds like you might need to replace your phone socket. One of the pins might be damaged and doesn't allow for an extension, but will work if you connect directly to it.

Try replacing the phone socket, and if that doesn't work than call the phone company as there might be a problem with the wiring
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Revy » 2012-04-13 02:23pm

Replacing the phone socket would require me to ask the phone company to do it (since I certainly don't know how to remove and wire in a new socket), and they won't do it unless the problem actually prevents the telephone from working - they don't care about my internet and are not required to lift a finger to make sure I have an internet connection.

According to my ISP the problem is likely that the phone line in my area has degraded, and because I live in a very remote area the phone line in my region is already just at the edge of being able to receive any kind of a connection (why they can't just put a booster or something somewhere along the way I don't know). Therefore adding even a 10m extension is too much for the degraded line, which is only just barely able to get a connection as is. They also said that I can't push the phone company (BT) to do anything to fix the problem, because BT can simply decide that the service in my area is unmanageable or somesuch and just shut down the line altogether, leaving me with nothing.

In order to try and solve the problem I've purchased an extra long DSL cable online. I'm hoping that I will be able to plug the filter into the main socket as it is now and use the extra long DSL line to put my router in the room I want it in. I have no idea if an extra long DSL will result in the same problem as a simple telephone extension line, but I guess I'll find out when I get it and try. If it doesn't work then I'm stumped.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby TheFeniX » 2012-04-13 02:54pm

Revy wrote:According to my ISP the problem is likely that the phone line in my area has degraded, and because I live in a very remote area the phone line in my region is already just at the edge of being able to receive any kind of a connection (why they can't just put a booster or something somewhere along the way I don't know).
As data signals move across a line, the electrons begin to separate/attenuate. Different protocols degrade like this at different distances based upon the type of wire they're using and the equipment.

So, boosting a degraded signal just boosts the degradation. It's been years, but DSL is only rated out to about 1.5 miles. You can get a connection further than that, but you lose speed. Ethernet is only rated to 100 meters, but you can "punch down" a 1000 meter box of the stuff and pull 10 Mb.

Therefore adding even a 10m extension is too much for the degraded line, which is only just barely able to get a connection as is. They also said that I can't push the phone company (BT) to do anything to fix the problem, because BT can simply decide that the service in my area is unmanageable or somesuch and just shut down the line altogether, leaving me with nothing.
Do you know anything about phone lines? Your best bet would be to find your phone box, and run a new line from it to somewhere that you can get power. Go to home depot and get some Cat5e "networking cable" to do it with. It's all twisted pair anyway and the cat5e is higher quality. Otherwise, hire someone to do it.

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Executor32 » 2012-04-13 08:14pm

Instead of buying all these cables and hoping they'll fix the problem, why not just get a cordless phone that supports multiple handsets, like this one? With that, you could keep the main base station next to the modem where it'll work without killing your Internet, and just have a smaller charge-only base station next to your computer.

Oh, and these are what they're talking about by DSL filters:

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They go between any phone and the wall jack. The DSL modem gets connected directly to the wall jack.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Stark » 2012-04-13 08:34pm

Revy, what is the plug you refer to as a 'phone plug'? If you're using the line filter to adapt your wall plug to an RJ-11, you're far better off just buying an actual adapter. With the filter in-line I'm surprised your modem works at all as it will filter out the very signal the modem needs.

In AU older houses use series 600s, chunky retangular plugs with 3 thin and 1 fat pin. There's one in my garage, but it has a s600->RJ11 converter permanently plugged into it because nobody makes anything series 600 anymore.

Series 600

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RJ11 as used by all routers I've ever seen

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Executor32 » 2012-04-13 08:57pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_telephone_sockets

what is this i don't even

You guys have weird, confusing shit over there, Revy.
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どうして?お前が夜に自身を触れるから。
Long ago in a distant land, I, Aku, the shape-shifting Master of Darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil, but a foolish samurai warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil is law! Now, the fool seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is Aku... -Aku, Master of Masters, Deliverer of Darkness, Shogun of Sorrow

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Stark » 2012-04-13 10:29pm

Oh shit, I've seen those white plugs with the clip on the side here as well. It looks like the way the sockets are wired is amazingly horrible too, with conceivably a whole house wired into the back of a single filter. Ugh. Their filters have a line and dsl side because they use such fucked up plugs, so at least he's not killing his ADSL with it.

Australia moved from series 600 to RJ-11 in like two years and most people don't even remember anything else now. Jesus.

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Starglider » 2012-04-14 03:50am

If you are on the edge of your exchange's DSL range it is entirely plausible that you can connect when plugged into the socket but not via extension lead. At DSL frequencies there is a significant signal drop with every connector. Using a shielded extension lead can help maintain the S/N ratio (I installed one at my parent's house to resolve exactly this issue) but really the solution is to install the filter+router as close to the line entry point as possible and use a data network (either cabled ethernet or wireless) to connect your Internet devices to it.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby phongn » 2012-04-14 12:24pm

Stark wrote:Australia moved from series 600 to RJ-11 in like two years and most people don't even remember anything else now. Jesus.

In the US, I occasionally see old houses with the freaking Bell System connector! IN USE, with some phone still rented from AT&T.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Zaune » 2012-04-14 04:12pm

Is there any reason why the modem itself has to be in the living room with you? You've already got an extension cord running across most of the ground floor (and are you sure you mean the front porch, not the hall?), so a length of Cat 5 won't be any more of a tripping hazard.
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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Executor32 » 2012-04-15 12:54am

As I understand it, he has the modem on the porch near the phone jack. The problem is that when he moves the phone to the living room and adds an extension cord between the phone and the DSL filter, the Internet connection stops working.
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どうして?お前が夜に自身を触れるから。
Long ago in a distant land, I, Aku, the shape-shifting Master of Darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil, but a foolish samurai warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil is law! Now, the fool seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is Aku... -Aku, Master of Masters, Deliverer of Darkness, Shogun of Sorrow

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Revy » 2012-04-15 07:14am

Yeah, we have a pretty crappy phone setup in this country.

Image

^That's the kind of extension lead I've been using. See the connector pin on that? That's the only type of port my main phone socket will accept. No I cannot just plug a DSL straight into the phone socket, it has to go into a filter, and the filter plugs into the main socket using the same kind of connector you see on the end of that extension. The filter looks something like this:

Image

My current working setup is something like this:

Socket - Filter = Phone & DSL

At the moment my phone and router are in my front porch (yes really). The wireless signal from my router will not reach my living room where I want my computer. What I used to do was this:

Socket - Extension - Filter = Phone & DSL

But now if I use an extension my internet stops working. I could get an extended ethernet cable and run that through my house, and leave my router in the porch, but ethernet cables are kinda thick and don't go under doors so well. I've ordered an extended DSL cable so I can try and set it up like this:

Socket - Filter - Extended DSL - Router

With my phone plugged in there as well. I haven't got the thing yet because the post where I live is slow as hell, so I'm still waiting. I'm not sure if it'll work either, because I don't know if the weak ass signal will travel through an extended DSL any better than a simple phone extension cable.

Also, I'm a girl. Not important but I'm saying it anyway.
"And the writers sayeth unto the firmament: let there be a hokey plot convenience! And lo, I sayeth it shall be a curse upon Voyager, and all the people who dwell within, and they shall surely feeleth like a collection of jackasses."

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby Executor32 » 2012-04-15 11:50am

My apologies. :oops:

The extended DSL cable probably won't work either, for the same reason as the phone extension. The only real options I can think of are to run a long Ethernet cable from the router to your computer, or possibly get a wireless range extender.
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どうして?お前が夜に自身を触れるから。
Long ago in a distant land, I, Aku, the shape-shifting Master of Darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil, but a foolish samurai warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil is law! Now, the fool seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is Aku... -Aku, Master of Masters, Deliverer of Darkness, Shogun of Sorrow

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Re: Broadband Connection Help

Postby GrandMasterTerwynn » 2012-04-15 02:45pm

Revy wrote:Yeah, we have a pretty crappy phone setup in this country.

Image

^That's the kind of extension lead I've been using. See the connector pin on that? That's the only type of port my main phone socket will accept. No I cannot just plug a DSL straight into the phone socket, it has to go into a filter, and the filter plugs into the main socket using the same kind of connector you see on the end of that extension. The filter looks something like this:

Image

My current working setup is something like this:

Socket - Filter = Phone & DSL

At the moment my phone and router are in my front porch (yes really). The wireless signal from my router will not reach my living room where I want my computer. What I used to do was this:

Socket - Extension - Filter = Phone & DSL

But now if I use an extension my internet stops working. I could get an extended ethernet cable and run that through my house, and leave my router in the porch, but ethernet cables are kinda thick and don't go under doors so well. I've ordered an extended DSL cable so I can try and set it up like this:

Socket - Filter - Extended DSL - Router

With my phone plugged in there as well. I haven't got the thing yet because the post where I live is slow as hell, so I'm still waiting. I'm not sure if it'll work either, because I don't know if the weak ass signal will travel through an extended DSL any better than a simple phone extension cable.

Also, I'm a girl. Not important but I'm saying it anyway.

As has been said, you could possibly buy a wireless range extender. Leave the router on the porch, and put the extender just inside the house so that the wireless signal will then be able to reach your computer.


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