Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

GEC: Discuss gaming, computers and electronics and venture into the bizarre world of STGODs.

Moderator: Thanas

User avatar
Sokartawi
Crazy Karma Chameleon
Posts: 805
Joined: 2004-01-08 09:17pm
Contact:

Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sokartawi »

Image

Yep, another game on kickstarter, what's new?

Well, I happen to be one of the devs on this game, so I might as well visit all the old forums I used to browse as a kid in the hope of finding people that are interested.

Panzer Pets is all about collecting and trading robot parts and using them to assemble your own robots. These robots are then used to explore the game world, battle against hostile robots and navigating through randomly-generated dungeons to loot its treasures.

The game is set in a post-apocalyptic world and has both a single-player campaign and multiplayer features such as guilds, arenas and tournaments. Players are free to trade their robot parts with others until they have the combinations of parts that they need to build the most powerful team of robots.

If you have to compare Panzer Pets to others (which I don't like to, as we tried to be unique and aim for a niche, instead of copying other games like everyone seems to do nowadays), you can imagine it to be a combination of Pokemon, Fallout, Scrapheap Challenge and Magic the Gathering. In addition to that, the game is massively multiplayer, meaning that you can meet other players and trade and fight with them, or form guilds and have a guild house built directly into the game world for all to see.

All the info about the game can be found here, including a movie:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gam ... obots-mmo/

I'll be happy to answer any question you might have.
Stubborn as ever - Let's hope it pays off this time.
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by weemadando »

Sorry, but I'm automatically skeptical of your budget.

$25 reward tier includes a physical object?

Of your 85k goal - can you really afford to complete your dev process for this game on 40k (generous given the number of physical rewards and taxation on pledged funds)?

I mean, you've got the engine (Unity) and server side stuff done, but you're really proposing that you can complete the rest of the game across multiple platforms (PC, iOS, Android), QA, market it and launch based off these funds?

I personally won't back you, but that's more to do with me not being interested in the end product you're pitching, but even if I was, I'd be hesitant given all the horror stories I've heard from those who have Kickstarters regarding the actual end costs in production, handling and postage for the physical objects.
User avatar
Sokartawi
Crazy Karma Chameleon
Posts: 805
Joined: 2004-01-08 09:17pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sokartawi »

We're a Netherlands-based company, our mail agencies aren't total thieves like the US ones :)

Regarding production costs, we've been working on this for over a year without any pay, and we're not expecting to come anywhere close to a competitive salary for the team with the funds we raise. It's more of a band-aid so we can pay the bills for a few months so we can all lock ourselves up in the office and get the game finished. At the moment, everyone has a second job to pay for the expenses and uses the free time on Panzer Pets, and that's not really a very efficient way to go. 85k is rather minimal and we know it - but we are confident we can release with that budget even if it means we have to slash some features. We hope to raise more (and release with all the features intact), but we rather play safe and get some money, than to fall short of the goal and get nothing at all.
Stubborn as ever - Let's hope it pays off this time.
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Losonti Tokash »

The sheer number of physical objects you guys are promising, particularly with the low thresholds for them, means that a huge amount of the money you get after Kickstarter and Amazon take their cut is going to be dedicated to these rewards and not your game. The shipping costs don't matter that much (especially since you're asking for extra money from people outside Europe) but you won't be benefiting from economies of scale and it's going to take up a bunch of your time as well.
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by weemadando »

But that's just the thing.

You're not getting 85k if you get your goal.

Kickstarter and Amazon both take commissions and then you have US taxes as both those organisations and your "income" are through there. Then you have to deliver on physical rewards - production, handling and shipping - I hope you have budgeted funds and time to package, address and sent 3400 of the figurines, because that's the amount that you could be sending if everyone pledges $25 to get you to your goal.
User avatar
Sokartawi
Crazy Karma Chameleon
Posts: 805
Joined: 2004-01-08 09:17pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sokartawi »

We're well aware of that.

Maybe discuss the game, not something we already know.
Stubborn as ever - Let's hope it pays off this time.
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Losonti Tokash »

If you're well aware of that and choose to act as you are anyway, that kinda tells us a lot about whether donating to your game is actually a good idea and wise investment. Good luck to you guys and all, but there's other projects I'd rather support that seem better managed.
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by weemadando »

Sokartawi wrote:We're well aware of that.

Maybe discuss the game, not something we already know.
It's nice to know that you know that, but that was my first reaction on seeing your details - because every successful project that I've followed has always said that they hideously underestimated the monetary and time costs for the physical rewards.

Actually, that's not true, my first reaction was "Customisable Robot MMO" and "is there really a market for this now?"

I wish you the best, but like I said, not up my alley.

Also, are you doing any advertising of your kickstarter aside from hitting up forums where you or other dev team members are known? 84k isn't a small goal for an unknown (read: not celebrity) team making a new IP.
User avatar
Zablorg
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1864
Joined: 2007-09-27 05:16am

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Zablorg »

This game sounds amazing. Don't listen to weemadando; he's never been involved in game development like you.

Moving on from tedious budget and project management crap, exactly how randomized will the dungeons be? Would you say "kind of random", or "super random"?
Jupiter Oak Evolution!
User avatar
HeadCreeps
Padawan Learner
Posts: 222
Joined: 2011-01-10 10:47pm

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by HeadCreeps »

For a kickstarter project, I was surprised to see the visual style as good as it is. It's very refreshing. Maybe use more variance or just a little more detailing in the environments, but I'm only basing this off a single screenshot.

"Gentleman's Club" has an adult connotation that I doubt you intended. If so, you might want to use a different name.

They're being prickish, but yeah, be careful with the business model.
Hindsight is 24/7.
[/size]
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37389
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sea Skimmer »

So you want to raise three grand a day for a month, intend to spend a bunch of it giving everyone presumably cheap gifts instead of a better game, and don't want to talk about how you intend to do it all? Considering you are behind your target and probably got the easiest money first, you might want to think about that more.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Stark »

I've read a lot about the challenges of dealing with a huge group of small investors who don't really understand the product or process. I wonder if this free gift business is worth it in some way given the sense of entitlement kick starter communities can quickly develop towards a project that they feel they own.
User avatar
Sokartawi
Crazy Karma Chameleon
Posts: 805
Joined: 2004-01-08 09:17pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sokartawi »

Zablorg wrote:Moving on from tedious budget and project management crap, exactly how randomized will the dungeons be? Would you say "kind of random", or "super random"?
The dungeons will be generated from various modular elements that can be connected in various ways, so we have some control over the process and can ensure it looks good and makes sense. There are various parameters we can give when we generate the dungeon, such as the distance between entry and the objective, the amount of branching that takes place, the amount of encounters that spawn, the amount of mini-treasure that is hidden in side-rooms, the amount of repair-stations in the dungeon and the amount of side-objectives you need to complete to get to the main objective.

Side objectives involge a locked door, which can be opened by flipping a switch somewhere or defeating a mini-boss and looting the key-item off him. I'm sure we can come up with more interesting stuff later on, but that's what we have now. Dungeons early in the game will be pretty straight forward, and later on they'll be more complex.
HeadCreeps wrote:For a kickstarter project, I was surprised to see the visual style as good as it is. It's very refreshing. Maybe use more variance or just a little more detailing in the environments, but I'm only basing this off a single screenshot.

"Gentleman's Club" has an adult connotation that I doubt you intended. If so, you might want to use a different name.

They're being prickish, but yeah, be careful with the business model.
Thanks :)

We'll definately do more with the graphics and the environment, we have several themes for environments, but not had time and funds to develop them yet. We focussed on getting an investor demo ready first, and those people don't need more than 10 minutes to see if it's something or not.

The Gentleman's Club will be errr, fun, yes. At least we know that everyone that is egible to enter is over 18, so we can put in there whatever we like without worrying about the ratings. :angelic:
Stark wrote:I've read a lot about the challenges of dealing with a huge group of small investors who don't really understand the product or process. I wonder if this free gift business is worth it in some way given the sense of entitlement kick starter communities can quickly develop towards a project that they feel they own.
That's what I hope too. The physical items won't cost us much effort, we got some connections with a post-order firm here in the Netherlands, the kickstarter/amazon fee and the taxes are way more significant. Having a huge mob meddle in the design of the game is something I'm happy with. Of course not all input will be useful, players paradoxially often want things that make the game less fun to play (Also make rare item X spawn on easy boss Y, because boss Z is too hard! - whoops now all the challenge is gone...), but yeah, overal I think I'll manage just fine. :D
Stubborn as ever - Let's hope it pays off this time.
User avatar
Enigma
is a laughing fool.
Posts: 7777
Joined: 2003-04-30 10:24pm
Location: c nnyhjdyt yr 45

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Enigma »

Sokartawi wrote:
Zablorg wrote:Moving on from tedious budget and project management crap, exactly how randomized will the dungeons be? Would you say "kind of random", or "super random"?
The dungeons will be generated from various modular elements that can be connected in various ways, so we have some control over the process and can ensure it looks good and makes sense. There are various parameters we can give when we generate the dungeon, such as the distance between entry and the objective, the amount of branching that takes place, the amount of encounters that spawn, the amount of mini-treasure that is hidden in side-rooms, the amount of repair-stations in the dungeon and the amount of side-objectives you need to complete to get to the main objective.

Side objectives involge a locked door, which can be opened by flipping a switch somewhere or defeating a mini-boss and looting the key-item off him. I'm sure we can come up with more interesting stuff later on, but that's what we have now. Dungeons early in the game will be pretty straight forward, and later on they'll be more complex.
Why not have the robot be able to break down the door instead but incur damage or increased wear and tear. So the player gets the choice of either spending time looking for the key or risk damaging the robot and have it smash the door open. Of course you can expand upon it like weak\starter robots can only break open frail wooden doors and attempting to break open stronger doors could severely damage the robot yet the door remains undamaged. The stronger the 'bot the more sturdier the door it could destroy, except for maybe special doors that contain mega loot or anything or big importance. This idea can be also used on any containers and so forth. :)

The game looks to be interesting but unfortunately I cannot devote much time on an MMO. If it was a single player game with a multi option then I'd love to play it should it get developed. :)
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)

"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons

ASSCRAVATS!
User avatar
HeadCreeps
Padawan Learner
Posts: 222
Joined: 2011-01-10 10:47pm

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by HeadCreeps »

Sokartawi wrote:The Gentleman's Club will be errr, fun, yes. At least we know that everyone that is egible to enter is over 18, so we can put in there whatever we like without worrying about the ratings. :angelic:
The fuck? I absolutely hate getting into or starting drama, but your group only shows pictures of kids with their robot and then you turn around and advertise an age 18+ Gentleman's Club? Seriously? What exactly is supposed to be your target audience?
Hindsight is 24/7.
[/size]
User avatar
Mr. Coffee
is an asshole.
Posts: 3258
Joined: 2005-02-26 07:45am
Location: And banging your mom is half the battle... G.I. Joe!

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Mr. Coffee »

HeadCreeps wrote:
Sokartawi wrote:The Gentleman's Club will be errr, fun, yes. At least we know that everyone that is egible to enter is over 18, so we can put in there whatever we like without worrying about the ratings. :angelic:
The fuck? I absolutely hate getting into or starting drama, but your group only shows pictures of kids with their robot and then you turn around and advertise an age 18+ Gentleman's Club? Seriously? What exactly is supposed to be your target audience?
FBI agents posing as 14 year old girls from Florida and the 40+ year old tubby basement dwelling closet pedos that love them obviously. But yeah, a titty bar is totally what a game supposedly about collecting robots and shit needs...
Image
Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas
GALE ForceCarwash: Oh, I'll wax that shit, bitch...
User avatar
Aaron MkII
Jedi Master
Posts: 1358
Joined: 2012-02-11 04:13pm

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Aaron MkII »

Obviously there will be a side quest in which your twelve years old character will need to assemble a stripper bot for the bar, cue innuendo and dick jokes.
User avatar
Mr. Coffee
is an asshole.
Posts: 3258
Joined: 2005-02-26 07:45am
Location: And banging your mom is half the battle... G.I. Joe!

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Mr. Coffee »

Sounds like the plot to a really shitty low budget sci-fi film staring a young Melanie Griffith.
Image
Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas
GALE ForceCarwash: Oh, I'll wax that shit, bitch...
User avatar
DudeGuyMan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 587
Joined: 2010-03-25 03:25am

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by DudeGuyMan »

Has this team ever successfully released a game before? Because an MMO is an order of magnitude more difficult than an ordinary game, and indie devs going for an MMO as their first project is pretty much a red flag for vaporware.
User avatar
Sokartawi
Crazy Karma Chameleon
Posts: 805
Joined: 2004-01-08 09:17pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sokartawi »

Enigma wrote: Why not have the robot be able to break down the door instead but incur damage or increased wear and tear. So the player gets the choice of either spending time looking for the key or risk damaging the robot and have it smash the door open. Of course you can expand upon it like weak\starter robots can only break open frail wooden doors and attempting to break open stronger doors could severely damage the robot yet the door remains undamaged. The stronger the 'bot the more sturdier the door it could destroy, except for maybe special doors that contain mega loot or anything or big importance. This idea can be also used on any containers and so forth. :)
I like the idea and definaly will keep it in mind, but we're going to develop the core features first and then add complexity like that.
EDIT: It reminds me of Arcanum when you learned the Disintegration spell. Door, what door? Crusader (1995) also had this option, but it came at the cost of setting off alarms and attracting unwanted attention.
Enigma wrote:The game looks to be interesting but unfortunately I cannot devote much time on an MMO. If it was a single player game with a multi option then I'd love to play it should it get developed. :)
The campaign part can be played as if it were a singleplayer game. You'll run into people while in towns and stuff, but you can freely ignore them. It's not like Panzer Pets is a Korean grind MMO or WoW where you need a dozen people for your end-game raids. When we release, it will feel more like Guild Wars 1, I suppose. Although we'll do more to make Guilds matter.
DudeGuyMan wrote:Has this team ever successfully released a game before? Because an MMO is an order of magnitude more difficult than an ordinary game, and indie devs going for an MMO as their first project is pretty much a red flag for vaporware.
Yep, a large part of the back-end came from previous projects and has actually been tested with a few 100k users playing on it for a year. We developed and then operated an MMO/virtual world called Club Galactik, and we developed Hero World (Guitar Hero MMO) for about 6 months until Activision shut down the whole Hero franchise, didn't pay us, and caused us to lose the license for Galactik Football - forcing us to close down Club Galactik and making us end up on the streets. We did pass Activision's due dilligence before we could start developing for them, and those aren't exactly the easiest to satisfy.
Last edited by Sokartawi on 2012-05-06 06:36pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stubborn as ever - Let's hope it pays off this time.
User avatar
Sokartawi
Crazy Karma Chameleon
Posts: 805
Joined: 2004-01-08 09:17pm
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Sokartawi »

whoops quote instead of edit :|
Stubborn as ever - Let's hope it pays off this time.
User avatar
Mr. Coffee
is an asshole.
Posts: 3258
Joined: 2005-02-26 07:45am
Location: And banging your mom is half the battle... G.I. Joe!

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Mr. Coffee »

While you're at it, can you explain why it is you're making a game where the characters are going to look like cartoon eight year olds that's going to include a titty bar?
Image
Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas
GALE ForceCarwash: Oh, I'll wax that shit, bitch...
User avatar
Starglider
Miles Dyson
Posts: 8709
Joined: 2007-04-05 09:44pm
Location: Isle of Dogs
Contact:

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Starglider »

Name and concept made me think of the Perpetuum MMORPG, although I haven't played it (don't have time for MMOs).

Strongly recommend you put subtitles on the video. I'm used to hearing all kinds of strongly accented English, and I still had a hard time making out what you guys were saying.

I will take your word for having the technical experience for MMO but the other problem with MMO vs single player is that if the game is a commercial failure, i.e. selling premium content doesn't make enough to cover the running costs, the game will disappear and the code will be worthless. That's an additional risk for backers on top of the usual 'will this game actually be released'. If there was an offline mode that would mitigate the risk and also be useful for playing on aircraft / poor signal area / people with harsh bandwidth caps.
User avatar
DudeGuyMan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 587
Joined: 2010-03-25 03:25am

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by DudeGuyMan »

Sokartawi wrote:Yep, a large part of the back-end came from previous projects and has actually been tested with a few 100k users playing on it for a year. We developed and then operated an MMO/virtual world called Club Galactik, and we developed Hero World (Guitar Hero MMO) for about 6 months until Activision shut down the whole Hero franchise, didn't pay us, and caused us to lose the license for Galactik Football - forcing us to close down Club Galactik and making us end up on the streets. We did pass Activision's due dilligence before we could start developing for them, and those aren't exactly the easiest to satisfy.
Hey, good times. I notice now that you mentioned this on the Kickstarter page. My bad, but you should put that right at the top. No matter what other drama ensued, being able to say you completed and released an actual game that was logged into by actual players is huuuuge when it comes to inspiring confidence.
User avatar
Aaron MkII
Jedi Master
Posts: 1358
Joined: 2012-02-11 04:13pm

Re: Panzer Pets Robot MMO on Kickstarter

Post by Aaron MkII »

Mr. Coffee wrote:While you're at it, can you explain why it is you're making a game where the characters are going to look like cartoon eight year olds that's going to include a titty bar?
I'm rather curious about this as well.
Post Reply