Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

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Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Vendetta »

Eurogamer wrote:PC and Mac role-player Diablo 3 will be released on consoles, Blizzard has confirmed.

Blizzard community manager Micah Whiple broke the news via his Twitter feed. No specific platforms were mentioned for the console version, or a release date.

When asked if he could confirm or deny rumours the anticipated hack and slash was on the way for consoles, Whiple responded with the affirmative:

"Yup. Josh Mosqueira is lead designer for the Diablo console project."

Mosqueira previously worked as design director on Company of Heroes at Relic.

Diablo 3 is due "early 2012" for PC and Mac.

A console version has long been rumoured and various job postings for console-based development roles at Blizzard have previously cropped up.

"People don't believe us when we say we're going to make a console game - flat out," Diablo 3 director Jay Wilson said last November, talking of Blizzard's commitment to a console version. "We haven't officially announced a product. We say that because we like our product announcements to be a big deal. We haven't been as secretive about this one because our biggest barrier is actually getting a console team."
Need to know more?

Eurogamer's goblin commander Oli Welsh went hands on with Diablo 3's beta last year.
Of course, we all know that you couldn't possibly really make a game as demanding as Diablo without the precision clicking control of mouse and keyboard.

Oh well, more lootz for me!
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by weemadando »

Hey everyone, remember how Torchlights controls and UI were totally fine with a controller on console?

UNSPEAKABLE CANNOT HAVE DIABLO ON CONSOLE ITS OUR SPECIAL THING

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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by PhilosopherOfSorts »

What the hell is the big deal? People act like Diablo has never been on consoles before, I had the original Diablo on the PS1 ten years ago.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Tanasinn »

Console ports are associated in modern PC gaming with deliberate simplification to appeal to a broader, more casual audience. PC userbases charge that this is often to their own loss, and not always without reason. See: Crysis 2.

Diablo 3's had a lot of nerd rage surrounding it anyway, from the "too bright and WoW-like" artstyle (google imagesearch 'diablo 3 logo'), to changing how online works and implementing a cash store of some sort.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Tolya »

Why are people so fucking bent on the bloody control scheme? If someone is a PC or console Nazi just admit that you are a hater, why the crazy theories on mouse vs pad?
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

Thank CHRIST. Let's hope he controls are more sacred than torchlight, though.

Tolya, people say things like 'If it doesn't play best with mouse and keyboard I don't want to play it'. Some are totally married to one setup, which is amusing because I think Diablo games are better on a controller.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Executor32 »

Speaking as a PC gamer, I don't get the obsession the vocal minority have with it. I mainly just use KB/M for FPS and RTS games, and my wireless 360 controller for almost everything else, especially racing and third-person action games. Hell, if I get tired of sitting in the chair and just feel like lying in bed and playing, I'll play any game with the 360 controller. I like to think that most PC gamers are like me, and the KB/M Nazis are actually just the same five people bitching to each other and their sockpuppets. :lol:
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

Those vocal communities of sockpuppets reinforce each others' attitudes, of course; that's why games from the 90s are considered advanced or deep or complex when really they were just clumsy with crap UIs.

I had no intention of playing D3 on PC even though it has some interesting ideas, so this is good news for me. Does anyone know if it's story/act based like the older ones, or a more open or random? I'm really only interested in the long-term coop potential, since I simply don't care about the laughable Diablo attempts to have a story.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by S.L.Acker »

Assuming the console versions are the same as the PC version I'm going to get my copy for my 360. It might be different if I could plug my laptop into my clunker of a TV, but really, D3 looks like the perfect time waster of a game that I'd want to kick back with on the couch.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

It'll look worse on console, but I doubt anyone will notice given the art style. If the PC is using skillbars, the controls will be better on a controller for everything except placing AOE.

Let's hope they get adventurous with the camera; being able to play q diabls in quasi third-person is great shit. Turns out you don't need zoomed-out top-down if you're not using a mouse. :v
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by S.L.Acker »

I'm not that worried given that I'll be playing it on my not high def TV. I'm really not much of a graphics whore anyway.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by TheFeniX »

Executor32 wrote:Speaking as a PC gamer, I don't get the obsession the vocal minority have with it. I mainly just use KB/M for FPS and RTS games, and my wireless 360 controller for almost everything else, especially racing and third-person action games. Hell, if I get tired of sitting in the chair and just feel like lying in bed and playing, I'll play any game with the 360 controller. I like to think that most PC gamers are like me, and the KB/M Nazis are actually just the same five people bitching to each other and their sockpuppets. :lol:
Early console shooters and RTSs were piss-poor ports with gameplay and UIs (respectively) set up to work for a mouse and keyboard. PC gamers don't forget things like that and cover their ears and scream loudly when you tell them about how things have changed since then.

For shooters, Unreal Tournament for the PS2 was an uncontrollable mess using the same difficulty for bots as was on the PC (pinpoint accuracy from across the map), but the controller couldn't keep pace with the fast-paced fighting nor the ridiculous amounts of weapons the game had. If you'll notice, there just aren't many shooters like UT anymore, for better or worse. The one actual cross-platform MP shooter, Shadowrun (ugh) really highlighted the disparity in the control scheme and gave PC elitists more ammo. I can't find the webpage anymore, but even with the slow-movement speed and aim-assists, console users were slaughtered by their PC counterparts.

Goldeneye and, later, Halo would show how a competent shooter could be made for a console and later interations followed the Halo mold (2 weapons, assist aiming, and (generally) less deadly hitscan weapons.For RTSs, the control scheme is almost impossible to make work cross platform. Halo Wars, while not a great game, showed how to do this for console. However, the UI is extremely simple when compared to games like Starcraft. But on the flip side, the PC port of Halo would drag current gen PCs to their knees even though the original game was released on PC like 2-3 years (can't recall) after it was for Xbox.

The other gripe PC gamers have is that developing for console tends to dumb-down aspects of the game and in some instances they aren't far off with concern the things like inventory management or quickly comparing items in RPGs. Making a game for both platforms usually results in one platform getting shafted hard. Mass Effect was known for being buggy on 360, but was really fucked up on PC. I heard of issues with Borderlands (which the UI was fucked dual-screen on 360 anyway), Brink, etc. And as I brought up, the ports usually have major issues with optimization and stability.

Few games pull it off well, most notably valve games like L4dead. I was surprised that a game designed for the 360 worked so well on the PC, even with the bullshit matchmaking system. I even heard good things about the Orange box for console where the main issue was the lack of customization when compared to the PC version of TF2 (no custom maps, etc). That and the lack of admin control with the matchmaking system to deal with griefers.

Diablo fans likely don't want to get stuck with a broken and dumb-downed port of a console game. There's also the bullshit PC elitism. There's always that.

So to wrap up this rant, you basically need two good teams or a concept that works well cross-platform to make a good multiple platform game. But that shit takes time and money with two or more development and testing teams. So, what you're usually stuck with is a buggy and broken piece of shit and Diablo fans are pretty crazy to begin with. So, queue up the death threats and "worst. game. ever." forum posts.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

Brink's problems didn't seem to have anything to do with being cross platform; it was just fundamentally flawed (and arguably really out-of-date by the time it came out).

I'm sorry but anyone who says 'few' games pull off both control styles 'well' must not own a console. In particular, since all the actual thought for q diabl control using a pad has already been done by other games, all they really need is new art and a desire to make money.

Dumbing down inventory management = rofflecoptors. The attitude that games are 'true' on PC and need 'adjusting' to fit consoles is really the very root of this whining.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Darmalus »

I don't remember the first two Diablo games using more than half a dozen buttons plus the mouse anyway, should be effortless to port over the controls. You might even wind up with a few unused buttons.

I remember the 'uproar' over D3 being too colorful, that was hilarious.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

Other games show its trivial to have 12 or more moves or skills ready to go with a controller while still having full camera control, a quickbar, and game specific stuff. Using common twin stick stuff targeting is easy, but like I said placing an effect on the ground is clumsy, because it requires a pointer unless it's a grenade or at your/the enemies feet.

UIs built around mouse pointers struggle on consoles. I wonder why?
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by TheFeniX »

Stark wrote:Brink's problems didn't seem to have anything to do with being cross platform; it was just fundamentally flawed (and arguably really out-of-date by the time it came out).
As bad as Brink was for 360, all of that was compounded on PC by adding in issues with graphics optimization. As in, the game really shouldn't have been that graphics intensive, but it was causing major framerate issues on current gen PCs.
I'm sorry but anyone who says 'few' games pull off both control styles 'well' must not own a console. In particular, since all the actual thought for q diabl control using a pad has already been done by other games, all they really need is new art and a desire to make money.
TheFeniX wrote:I heard of issues with Borderlands (which the UI was fucked dual-screen on 360 anyway), Brink, etc. And as I brought up, the ports usually have major issues with optimization and stability.

Few games pull it off well, most notably valve games like L4dead.
Read first, then bitch: valve is the only developer I've seen consistently pull off well optimized games for multiple platforms. Fallout 3 (Bethesda) did as well (and even a control scheme that worked well with a controller and a KB/M), but then there's Brink.
Dumbing down inventory management = rofflecoptors.
Try telling me the inventory system of Borderlands, KOTOR, or Mass Effect is anywhere near the level of PC RPGs made in the mid-90s. Hell, even Eye of the Beholder did it better. Mass Effect's was excruciating on so many levels considering everytime you broke down a low-level piece of gear, it defaulted back to the top (where all your good stuff was). They fixed this in 2 by just removing it all.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

I guess you don't shooters.

The lol of inventory management is that it is no fun ever and should probably not exist anyway. ME and Beth have shit inventories because their designers suck, not because you need a mouse to have 'fun' 'managing' inventory.

Since the same tooltip comparisons work on both platforms, the only reason games on either have bad comparisons is bad UI design.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

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Tolya wrote:Why are people so fucking bent on the bloody control scheme? If someone is a PC or console Nazi just admit that you are a hater, why the crazy theories on mouse vs pad?
The shop/inventory/skills UI for Skyrim is a classic example of a godaweful console UI slapped onto the PC port with utterly no regard for working well with a mouse because the developers where lazy.

Most game developers are utterly shit at UI design, and asking them to develop two UIs for radically different input styles will just result in utterly miss-poor UI design which will generally ignore an entire UI paradigm because it's too hard to make it work over multipule ones.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Executor32 »

Am I the only one who actually doesn't mind Skyrim's UI on PC? If SkyUI is any indicator, it would seem that the typical BethSoft approach of 'omg hueg lists words words WORDS', which I can't stand in the least, is preferred.

Also, the reason the Halo port ran so terribly was because it was a poorly-coded piece of shit.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Stark »

Beth did the same shit job on Oblivion (giant lists, but giant text so you can only see 5 things at once) and people seriously called it consoles attacking PC and not Beth just being lazy retards.

At least the Skyrim one seems better tabbed.

If nerds didn't insist on games being built around OCD hoarding, none of this would matter. :)
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Vendetta »

But Starks, how will I survive if I cannot pick up nine thousand bits of completely useless trash?

I'm still waiting for another q diabl to steal Too Human's loot management, where you set a rarity level to keep and anything below that instantly converts into money as you pick it up. Sacred 2 almost did it, you could set a level which stopped anything lower being picked up, but all that loot left all over the floor was just... untidy.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Tolya »

Xon wrote:The shop/inventory/skills UI for Skyrim is a classic example of a godaweful console UI slapped onto the PC port with utterly no regard for working well with a mouse because the developers where lazy.

Most game developers are utterly shit at UI design, and asking them to develop two UIs for radically different input styles will just result in utterly miss-poor UI design which will generally ignore an entire UI paradigm because it's too hard to make it work over multipule ones.
Actually Im not that sure Skyrim UI is entirely shit on PC. I am at my 60 or so hour and frankly, I uninstalled the SkyUI mod because it was even shittier than the original. Perhaps it is so fucked up at it's base that no fan mod can fix it and the entire system should be rewritten? Skyrim's inventory system would work great if the amount of loot you could carry was limited to, say, 100 or so. But I guess fattynerds would be enraged so you can get yourself overloaded like a fucking armory. Who can fight with two sets of plate armor in their inventory. So that is just lazy design of the gameplay mechanics, the inventory has it's flaws (like the overly stupid magic/skills/inventory/whatever selection screen which was so blatantly ripped from consoles that it should have a plasma screen in the back) but I blame the laziness of devs and fattynerd pressure.

The control scheme isn't the problem. Actually using WSAD for menu navigation was weird at first, but I got to used and started liking it. I don't have to point the mouse for every blooody action if I can do it faster on a keyboard. PC devs should look closely at the pad's capabilities because there are some very nifty things there.

I seriously think that the worst inventory schemes revolve around small fonted lists, a mouse pointer and tons of categories. Yes Dragon Age, I am looking at you. Skyrim only has the last thing.

JA2 did it mostly right. You had a limited amound of space and you had to prioritize what to take and what to leave. Of course, enemies mostly dropped ammo, so you just picked up everything. But in a world such as Skyrim it would work great too. I cannot fathom how stupid you have to be to design an inventory system around hoarding tons of useless shit. Yes, everyone drops their equipment, but sneaking with 30 swords at your back just because you can just pushes the boundery of suspending the disbelief.

I have two fucking sets of armor in Skyrim, one for sneaking, one for battles. And I can change them on the fly. During an axe swing. Oh, and I can drink a cartload of potions in a second, so if Im about to get killed I just instagulp and go at it again. That shouldn't be possible because it just breaks immersion.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Thanas »

I recall that it was not possible to switch armor in Bioware RPGs in a fight. Maybe that is just Bethesda sucking.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Tolya »

In Skyrim you can change that on the fly. You can even bind 1-9 keys to different armor (although not the entire sets) and go nuts.
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Re: Fatnerd rage incoming: Diablo for consoles.

Post by Purple »

@Tolya

Having not played Skyrim I can't speak from experience. But I do speak from a standpoint of common sense RPG design. I pretty much disagree with you all the way. Most of the things you listed as bad I can say are good.

Firstly, there is nothing more annoying than a limit on how many items you can carry. And not for the reason you think. I agree that you will newer need more than one set of weapons and armor per character (maybe two if you are really bent on it). But all the extra loot, especially the generic shit items have a purpose. They are there so you can carry them to the nearest merchant and sell them so that you can have the money to buy the good stuff. The absolute worst and most annoying thing is having to constantly destroy/drop items you know would provide you with just the kind of money you need only if you managed to get to a merchant. Now there are solutions to this, like say spraying merchants all over the map like in Bioshock/Borderlands or just making a system where you can send items to some chest in your camp or automatically sell them from far away. But just having a flat inventory limit that forces you to leave loot behind is annoying to no end. And it just creams of bad game design to include features that annoy players.

And the absolute worst thing that can happen to an inventory is not to have many categories. The one thing that angered me in Mass Effect (to name another RPG) to no end was that the shops did not have categories listed. And so I had to trudge through all items to select the thing I want to sell/buy. The thought of having that apply to my entire inventory that I have to access not once or twice per 5-10 hours of play but every time I check my drops would drive me insane. As for fonts, I can't say either way. Too small and it becomes a chore to read but too large and there is way to few items per page so you have to scroll down constantly making it a problem to keep track of what you have and how much you have of it. Now if only someone would come up with a system to group all items of the same type together...)

The one thing I do agree with you is changing armor and weapons on the fly and potions. These things should have a bloody cool down for the sake of balance. But other than that I think that as a rule gameplay > immersion. If a feature is going to help immersion but be needlessly annoying or angering to the player than it should be dropped.
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