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Yuck. I don't see how anyone can look at the Guardian PvP set and not vomit, helmet or not. I make do with the helmet toggled off and a proper Jedi robe modded up with the best 50+ purples I can find in place of the chest, which dilutes the ugliness of the rest of the set since it's mostly under the robes. You only need 4 pieces for the set bonuses anyway, so it's possible to do without the chest.

I kept an old set of orange gear for the day when you can finally rip out the armoring and set bonus from gear. That said, I will take the Knight PvP gear any day over the Sith Warrior (either PvE or PvP) or the "MORE SKULLS I SAID MORE SKULLS!" on the Death Knight gear from WoW.

For those interested, there's a bit of speculation about 1.2 at IGN. Some issues I'm interested in:
1. This will effectively kill Ilum, even more so than it is now. No objectives, just killing fields. If they're doing this, they should really put the crafting material nodes back in. The conspiracy theorist in me is starting to believe BW knows they fucked up large scale battles and are doing what they can to keep players away from them so they don't notice the deficiencies in the engine.

2. "Void Star will be changed so that Republic can fight Republic and Empire can fight Empire, a team format shared by Huttball and Novare Coast." If this doesn't come with X-server PvP, it will make the faction imbalances even worse. The one thing that keeps the larger faction playing is that they don't have queues. What also makes them insane is same faction huttball over and over, so some have actually swapped factions. Now they can go back.

3. Win/Loss keeping: This is dumb unless they can ensure that matches will not begin until it's 8vs8 and disconnects count as an automatic loss (or are tracked separately).

4. "We wanted to make it so Biochem wasn't the only viable elder game crafting skill. We've done a lot of changes there that'll make the crafting system a lot stronger." - First off: Elder skill? And seriously, this can't come soon enough. Outside of all sanity, I've kept with Synthweaving. I would be content with BoP augment slots, but there would need to be multiple to keep up with the awesomeness that is biochem and would also make the profession profitable. On our server, you can't sell medpacks because everyone has biochem anyway.

5. "Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight," : FUCK. I have way too much shit on my bar already.

6. "We want to put in some guild features, like the aforementioned capital ships, " - Shut up and take my money! Anything, and I mean anything that will get me off the Fleet Station is a good change.

7. "For the interface, it sounds as though nearly every element of it will be modifiable in some way." - This just needs to come. I'm stuck with 4 bars, the side ones of which get covered up in PvP. I could get by with just a 3rd stacked on top of my original 2. But they better not be fucking with us on this. They should take a page from Star Trek Online.

What's wrong with PVP at the moment, I could put together a top fifty list but I'll hold off.

1. Warzones are a mess of bugs, exploits and just problems
Bugs like the Vigilance not working or being worthless. Example sleeping someone fills 75% of your bar but sleeps break randomly since if I have a healing dot on someone and it ticks that will wake me up, if I get shielded by a friendly player I'll wake up but not if I'm healed. Some damage buffs will also wake me up if my enemy uses them while I'm sleeping. Plus there are the knock-down sleeps that are in essence an extra stun as it takes time to get back up even if they use it mid combat. There's also issues with team stacking and disconnecting resulting in warzones being 4 vs 8 and the worst issue is the guilds running in full ops mode. Sorry but no scratch team is going to best a team on a teamspeak/vent/mumble even if they are all green geared. Worse yet you get in negative situations where people quiting result in the ops group getting thrown against everyone. I've seen in the low end a seven man ops team kill an entire streak of warzones, we had about seventy people playing and because of player cycling in half an hour they won nine games and ended all warzone queing for hours as they simple rolled. Teambalancing is needed, four man team? fine but throwing pub teams against guild teams is just asking for stomping.

2. PVP Gear issues
Example, pvping 16's at 48 is pretty easy, worse at 49 when I can easily get an entire set of purple 49s mods from dailies for alts in under a week. My Sniper was taking on three 30s at once at 49 since the scaling bonuses is not coded well so I'd end up with Rakata level bonuses with 1700 cunning /1400 Stamina so I had 8k more heath then everyone else, a 38% standing crit rate and just shy of 80% surge. High end pvp is just as bad as Battlemaster gear lets you crush anyone in tioneese or less. Having a PVP only stat is an interesting idea but requiring you to pvp to get pvp gear results in a long time of being nothing but bait for the already well equipped players. And because of BoP nature of this gear and inability to craft it means you need to send lots of time as a gearless target for the existing battlemasters.

The only way to avoid that slog is to stock up commendations in your 40s which again means that makes low level pvping hard since you have 46s and the like running around being able to fight half the team because gear scaling breaks.

3. Open world pvp is pointless
Because it is, you had four years for a reason why we would want to control Illium and aside from the buff no one cares. But they at least realized that.

4. The wait time on matches is to long / matches last to long
Seriously, if you see the prompt to load in and wait 49 seconds (You have 60) and then load you still have another minute to wait to start. On my super-nice computer its two minutes, on my shitt old test computer old AMD computer with a 8800 gt and only 2 gigs of ram I still have forty seconds to load in. Why? Because the count down does not even start until half the team is loaded in. Combine that with 15 minute matches which are typically decided in five minutes or less and it means trying to throw the match early. Only Voidstar seems to be nice and quick.

Mr Bean wrote:High end pvp is just as bad as Battlemaster gear lets you crush anyone in tioneese or less. Having a PVP only stat is an interesting idea but requiring you to pvp to get pvp gear results in a long time of being nothing but bait for the already well equipped players. And because of BoP nature of this gear and inability to craft it means you need to send lots of time as a gearless target for the existing battlemasters.

Full champion will let you smash anyone in full Cent, if you are halfway competent. You're looking at about a 30% endurance increase alone. You DPS stats increase about the same depending on stat priority, which can get dumb (like Cent and BM Vindicator greaves having crit and champ having power which is much better for Guardians).

From Champ to BM is like a 7% stat increase. Nothing to sneeze at, but hardly the game changer that <=Cent to Champ is. Cent is only really good at rounding out your set bonuses. Given the choice, I'd PvP in a full set of Columi over Full Centurion. The gains in Expertise aren't likely to make up for the large amounts of core stats you're going to lose.

Until you get ~8% expertise, PvP is a stomp. A full champ set will net you ~10% expertise. I actually use my Rakata Main-hand, Off-hand, and pants because the core stats (str and end) scale better than the brutal DR on expertise after ~9%.

But yes, your complaints are extremely valid. On our server, there's 2-3 Imp guilds full of War Hero's and Battlemasters that queue in 4 man premades constantly during certain days of the week. It's extremely unlikely to see an Imp in a BG with less than 16k HP during these days. People see this and immediately start leaving the WZ or bemoan anyone on our team with less than 14k HP. Then we get a free loss, Imps get a free win.

That's not really my issue. My issue is that the current system rewards the zerg for smashing undergeared pugs with daily completions and more gear. I've read posts on the forums, and seen screenshots, of players on light servers and on the underpopulated faction either not being able to PvP or being forced to PvP against the same Imp/Rep premades over and over. Now they are crying non-stop on the forums because their welfare gear disparity is going to get somewhat normalized with 1.2. Babies....

Battlemasters+ need to get forced into a "higher" bracket to continue their gear progression. And people who PvP casually need better options than consistently fighting people in full Champ and Half/full BM. If I can't get full Rakata from farming Normal Mode-Operations, PvPers don't deserve the best gear for fighting players with 0 expertise or trading Huttball wins. So... rated WZ and X-server queues or bust.

Sorry, not reading through this whole thread but I got in on the whole free weekend they just did and I'm probably going to pick it up. Is there some loose conglomeration of people here who play together or are you guys just all over the place?

We're all over the place. My only mans are on Beggeren Colony, but I don't think any of the other guys share a server.

Is there a way to change severs? My characters are all on Hanharr(?) but it's not like I've got an emotional attachment to it.

There's no way to transfer characters to a different server as of right now. You can join any server at any time though, you aren't locked to one.

Begeren Colony here as well.

I think there's a few guys on Ajunta Pall as well, off the top of my head.

Alright, then I'll just reroll somebody on Begeren, would like to play with you guys some this week. Recommend Republic or Empire?

Begeren has pretty good faction balance if PvP holds any interest to you, so either is a good pick. I'm mostly Repub, don't know about Joviwan.

I'm all over the place. My main is imp, but they're locked with my other buddies for partying. I've got lowbies or can roll up something on either faction.

What time zone are you in?

I'm in CDT. Is there a way to add someone's account as a friend or can it only be by character?

Character only. One of the many lulz about TOR is no global friends.

I guess you guys could give me your Origin ids and I'll just add you on there. I'm deciding between a Trooper or Warrior right now.

Origin ID is Joviwan

Sith Warrior's SL is pretty good. Trooper I haven't explored too hard, but fem-voice is a slightly hammy commander shepard, so it's at least amusing.

Alright, I added Joviwan. My Origin id is Losonti. We're quite creative.

Who designs this shit? Better question, who approves this shit? I'd accuse BW of mocking us, but I'm seriously starting to believe this is either the best they can crank out with current resources or management is rubber stamping designs just to get them out the door to make the 1.2 release.

1.2 is it's own bag of cats. The forum is awash with tasty tears from all classes. Sorcerers and Sages are in an uproar over the breaking of their hybrid spec and a reworking of their healing tree and the way healing buffs are applied. For them, the game is now ruined forever!™

The Defense and Vigilance trees for Guardians are being reworked to reduce the effectiveness of the hybrid tanking build and forcing more PvE Tanks into a 31 Defense build. They are doing this with as little effort as required I might add. BW doesn't understand that Defense doesn't need a tweak, the whole concept of the tree needs to be rethought. Guardian Slash is getting "causes more threat" on it, but the AOE threat ability of the Guardian is being reduced (less damage on Force Sweep). So... Vanguards still make better AOE tanks, do more single-target damage, and have better passive mitigation stats than Guardians...... so yea.... I'll still Tank like a badass with my Guardian, but I'll always wonder how much easier it would be for my team (in PvE mind you) if I was a Vanguard.

BTW: every official comment on Guardians is that "they are working as intended" and "our team has no issues clearing content with any makeup of classes." Even if true, BW doesn't understand the main complaint of Guardian Tanks (or even DPS): When a pug is given the option between 2 classes, both of which can do a job, all things being equal they will always take the better of the two from a technical standpoint.

Commandos/Mercs are having a CD of some type put on Grav Round/Tracer Missile. I'd get more information, but the screams of anguish from 1-button spamming Mercs is too satisfying. Not only will the players who didn't bother to learn their class still be an easy kill, but they'll have major issues even sniping at other players.

The main issue with the Sorc/Sage healing is because of how garbage Alacrity is for stacking and how a great thing was made okay and a terrible thing was made worse.

Okay healing as a Sorc in the past meant opening up with Resurgence our instant use 6 second dot heal which could heal for 1.5k to 4k if every tick critted. That healing was incidental, the main benefit was the Force Bending buff. It made Dark Heal cost half as much it made Dark Infusion cast twice as a fast, it made Innervate crit and it made Revifivication cost much less.

Healing meant cycling Resurgence on the off-tank or a dps while you used the Force bending buff to spam dark infusion and Innervate on the tank. The problem lay that the buff was not consumed on first use meaning I could use Innervate with it's boosted crit rate for 2.6 seconds then just before Force bending wears off I cast a speed up Dark Infusion. That's a bug and should be fixed fine.

But then they went and changed the healing bonuses, Dark heal now auto-crits which is a good chance because there was never any reason to use dark heal, but now they made Dark Infusion instead of activating faster it costs half as much. Considering it was the best spam heal this rips everyone's current rotation meaning it's going to be Resurgence then Innervation then Dark Infusion then resurgence and then... nothing for 1.4 seconds before starting the cycle over again because we can't fit in Revivification because of how expensive it is to cast and how long it takes to cast.

But getting back to alacrity. First off healing gear contains only tiny amounts sufficent to remove .1 second from casting time (Which is nothing) and even boosted by Adrenals and augments your only talking about .3 seconds faster on a 2.5 second heal. And the dimenisions returns hit Alacrity HARD so if you have a 2.5 second heal the fastest you can get it is 2.0 seconds while a 1.5 second attack will hit 1.3 at best. And with lag and netcode delays the extra .1 does not matter nearly as much as crit and surge to make that 2.5 second heal do twice as much.

*Edit
Also all high level gear is like that Knight's gear. And interesting concept ruined by one or two extra bits tacked on. The Bounty Hunter gear is like that, great arms, great looking pants and shoes but then they make the helmet silly and the chest piece has four giant coat-racks hanging off the back. Or the Jugg gear which looks good except the shoes have claws on them but only half a claw like your a four toed dinosaur with two toes kinda halfway chopped off and then there are the silly cauldrons which look like LARP gear made out of a shoebox and some tin cans.

1.2 goes live Thursday the 12th. Link to the patch notes: here.

The big focus is on a new flashpoint, operation, and the Legacy system. PvP is being tweaked with new ugly gear and there's a lot of other stuff. I quit about 2 weeks ago, and I don't see anything relating to performance fixes that would make me come back.

I've beaten the Imperial Agent, Bounty Hunter and Inquisitor story lines, Half done with the Warrior Story lines and except for Jedi Knight I've not gotten past 15 on the Republic side. Lots of interesting stuff with 1.2 and most of it single player focused. PVP is still a mess but has been improved.

Sages and Sorcerers remain the flavor of the game (As it's been to long to call it flavor of the month since they have been at the top of their tier from day 1 to present) but there are several builds that 1.2 is getting rid of but you can make a PVP/PVE beast in the 23/2/16 build which lets you dps, it lets you heal and it lets you heal and DPS... forever.
Build in question. The only tool you lack is Innervate crits being able to use consumptions instead you use Force Lightning to recover force. It remains the go to build for someone who wants to do both.

The only thing 1.2 changes is you used to be able to run a 2/18/21 build to wreck in pvp since you were able to unload a massive amount of burst damage after you get your death field and dots off. From no damage to 800 damage a second just from dots now throw in Force Lightnings and Shocks hitting for 2k damage a pop then you get to throw in chain lightning every 10 seconds on top of wraith instant casts every six seconds. Massive... massive amounts of damage in pvp and pve.

I'm in it for the last time today before the changes take it away.

Mr Bean wrote:Sages and Sorcerers remain the flavor of the game (As it's been to long to call it flavor of the month since they have been at the top of their tier from day 1 to present) but there are several builds that 1.2 is getting rid of but you can make a PVP/PVE beast in the 23/2/16 build which lets you dps, it lets you heal and it lets you heal and DPS... forever.
Build in question. The only tool you lack is Innervate crits being able to use consumptions instead you use Force Lightning to recover force. It remains the go to build for someone who wants to do both.

1 vs 1, I found Sages aren't all that they're cracked up to be. At least not when I face off against them with my 14/27/0 Guardian in DPS gear. The full-heal spec makes it almost impossible for me to burn them down since they can undo all my damage if they get one heal off. But with the Enure + WZ medpack combo (9.1k heal) they really couldn't kill me either.

The hybrid spec gets rolled 1 vs 1 by a lot of classes. I've personally watched our guild BM Sentinel chew through dozens of them over the course of a nights gaming (while I peel for him and keep some other players busy). I kill them constantly myself unless they're awesome with their snares and force speed/LOS (most are not). I usually just move on with my life if they happen to be smart because my armor makes me a looong kill for them either way. The real problem is how ridiculously well they scale in larger engagements. 4 of them pumping out damage and throwing a heal when 1 or more gets focus is pretty hilarious. Guardians scale about as well with regard to their utility and CC, but we can't heal. Sorcs/Sages bitch because (*GASP*) they don't do awesome 1vs1. Other classes bitch because (*GASP*) a class with that much utility excels when in a group environment.

It's really where Jugs/Guards are at now. Players are pissed a good Guardian (who isn't sweep bombing) can use his mobility and utility to survive "forever" (with pocket heals, he doesn't need much) and dole out consistent damage while doing so. Just like people did with the sages, they assume we all have 31/31/31 builds and wear DPS gear over a set of Tanking gear ("WTF this full-defense tank hit me with a 6k smash!! NERF NERF NERF!"). Man, I wish my smashes hit for anywhere near that.

UPDATE: 1.2 already landed? The forum is a shit-storm and supposedly mods are deleting threads here and there. A shame, there used to be like 3-4 really knowledgeable posters on the PvP forum who could actually do a good job pointing out flaws and why they are flaws. They may have quit the game by now, because the forum is nothing but "X sucks because I don't like it." Well... it's always been that, but with a few gems here and there.

The Bioware forums are utter shit for the most part because Bioware has zero community guys, the people actually posting are devs which is always a mistake in an mmo. They don't even have a sucker's bet player recruit feedback team. Patch lands in a few hours.

*Edit
FYI hybrid build I linked was for PVE not pvp, the 2-18-21 build which 1.2 removes was the pvp murder build. The hybrid build lets you be a healer in a 4 man or a dps at will as you can swap between and do just as well as long as you have a competent tank. No other healer class has that option to go hybrid as well as Sorcs do. Operatives/Rebel equivalent can but they suffer from the worst healing in the game.

Mr Bean wrote:The Bioware forums are utter shit for the most part because Bioware has zero community guys, the people actually posting are devs which is always a mistake in an mmo.

Are you serious? That's fucking hilarious. EA/BW can't pay some guys $5.75 an hour to check forum posts or get some fanboys to do it for free?

FYI hybrid build I linked was for PVE not pvp, the 2-18-21 build which 1.2 removes was the pvp murder build. The hybrid build lets you be a healer in a 4 man or a dps at will as you can swap between and do just as well as long as you have a competent tank. No other healer class has that option to go hybrid as well as Sorcs do. Operatives/Rebel equivalent can but they suffer from the worst healing in the game.

Ah. Yea, I don't know what BW was thinking by giving the sage a linear recovering energy bar and sticking Ops and Commandos with their staged one. Trying to run a Sage out of force is impossible to do in PvP. Personally though, PvE in this game is so easy and boring, it doesn't surprise me Sages can pull this off with a competent team. For PvE, people prefer Vanguard to Guardians. Since Guardians are more bursty in our damage intake, healers trying what you're talking about don't like us.