SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

GEC: Discuss gaming, computers and electronics and venture into the bizarre world of STGODs.

Moderator: Thanas

User avatar
Tanasinn
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1765
Joined: 2007-01-21 10:10pm
Location: Void Zone

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Tanasinn »

Chardok wrote:
Tanasinn wrote:
Stark wrote:The bandit population might be less well-funded, but it's still absurdly huge. Who knew a 15-population town could support entire Moria-like labyrinths of bandits not 20 feet from the gate? :V That's versimilitude!
That hurts the immersion, sure, but I feel New Vegas - which has fewer raiders compared to, say, Fallout 3 - had another problem in that there's fewer places you can go to have a big brawl with people.

You never got jumped by Caesar's patrols?
I did plenty, but much like the Talon Mercs/Regulators in FO3, they get annoying by virtue of being shoved on you rather than sought out.

Legionary assassins were more annoying than their FO3 counterparts, too. Plus their football motif is really fucking lame.
Truth fears no trial.
User avatar
Chardok
GET THE FUCK OFF MY OBSTACLE!
Posts: 8488
Joined: 2003-08-12 09:49am
Location: San Antonio

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Chardok »

I mean...are you looking for a full-on on-demand throw-down? If so, you could just pop in to any town, really, and kill a chicken in view of a guard. Or throw a loaf of bread at a shopkeeper.


OH! I wanted to ask - do townies respawn? I mean, If a dragon follows you into town and burns 3/4 of it to the ground, how long does it take before the people show up there again?
Image
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22430
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Mr Bean »

Chardok wrote:

OH! I wanted to ask - do townies respawn? I mean, If a dragon follows you into town and burns 3/4 of it to the ground, how long does it take before the people show up there again?
If they are named then they are dead and gone. Guards respawn but otherwise you can depopulate the world.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
Chardok
GET THE FUCK OFF MY OBSTACLE!
Posts: 8488
Joined: 2003-08-12 09:49am
Location: San Antonio

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Chardok »

Mr Bean wrote:
Chardok wrote:

OH! I wanted to ask - do townies respawn? I mean, If a dragon follows you into town and burns 3/4 of it to the ground, how long does it take before the people show up there again?
If they are named then they are dead and gone. Guards respawn but otherwise you can depopulate the world.

that seems....terrible. Wouldn't that effectively eliminate the ability to finish/start quests in some cases?
Image
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22430
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Mr Bean »

Chardok wrote:
that seems....terrible. Wouldn't that effectively eliminate the ability to finish/start quests in some cases?
There are a few rare NPC's which are unkillable I think for the main quest line. They did away with being able to murder your way out of the main storyline but generally speaking yes you can murder your way out of quests. If a Dragon follows you back to town and burns down the town... sucks to be you. However I'll note most quest npc's hang out indoors. The major towns where a good 60% of the quests are gotten are also instanced so you can't bring a Dragon into them (Yet... come on PC mods) but you can sure as heck murder a town by yourself with your own zombie minions.

OAN:Necromancy is great, don't want to carry all those swords and such? Then re-animate your former enemies and have them follow you back to town then re-kill them there (Or let them time out) so you can loot them yourself. Got this tip from a friend and it was hilarious to murder a entire coven of necromancers then re-animate them and bring them back to town with me only to de-animate then loot them there.
Last edited by Mr Bean on 2011-11-12 06:32pm, edited 1 time in total.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Stark »

You'd imagine the important people are set to just run into the Invincible Houses until you shoot arrows at the dragon and kill it.

Many games have a similar kind of 'diminishing possibility' towards the end, but it's usually evident more in games liek Just Cause or Mercenaries where clearing half the map = half the map is now dead boring.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Vendetta »

Chardok wrote:
Stark wrote: versimilitude!
Computer?


*beee woop bee*

Define Versimilitude.
What nerds are really talking about when they say realism.
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22430
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Mr Bean »

Okay 12 hours in
I'm a werewolf
I've been to only two of the major cities
I've just soul sucked my first dragon
I already have two followers both of which are chilling in one of my homes.
I've yet to increase any skill beyond 35(Except locking which is in the 50s) since I keep switching method of fighting.
My entire walk about wardrobe is magical at this point
I have had dozens of zombie minions including Zombie werewolfs which I can't recommend enough.
The bards have one song about me already I can pay them to sing about my daring exploits
And I've broken about seven minor quests.

And I understand how the quest generator works. Take an example quest to clear out some Silver hand anti-werewolf fascists. You can be sent to one of a dozen lairs of theirs with half a dozen possible objectives I've gotten one sneaking mission, a kill all, one plant evidence mission and of course one go werewolf eat a few and flee back to the home of someone so you can frame them for being a werewolf. According to what I've read online the quest generator mixes and matches locals so the next time through you won't be sneaking in this time but murdering everyone the next play through for the same mission and so on. Also you can turn them down if you for example don't want to do the sneaking mission and it will produce another type for you.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by FaxModem1 »

I'm a few hours into the game. After reaching Riverwood, I just grabbed a wood cutting axe and began working, then dropping off the firewood to Hod. Do this thirty or so times, and you soon have enough money to cruise around in style. Which is nice, considering I'm an Archer player and I like a lot of spare arrows.
Image
User avatar
charlemagne
Jedi Knight
Posts: 924
Joined: 2008-10-13 02:28am
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by charlemagne »

While I like the game so far, I don't feel myself sucked in as I was with Oblivion and Morrowind. Reason for this is that Sykrim is just more of the same. It's more polished, and graphics are pretty awesome with the fog around the mountains and so on.

Most absurd thing is, like always the lack of scale. Walk thirty feet, find 5 dungeons and a "town" with 5 inhabitants.

You can't really blame Beth for just polishing the successfull model they have going since Morrowind. I still wish they'd get more ambitious and try something like a modern Daggerfall, scale-wise.
Image
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Stark »

The scale of Daggerfall was useless. They could play versimilitude if they wanted by moving away from their legacy bullshit (ie, every game is an entire country and nothing else, so you get a 'huge' map with invisible walls round instead of a nicely crafted map that makes sense) and make a map of the same size but with sensible scale so everything is spread out in a reasonable way.

Y'know, so you don't run across 3 dragons in 200m of walking. :lol: The real disappointment is that they create a 'sandbox' game (right down to bland random quests) but don't have any faction wars, an interesting economy, destruction, or any of the things modern sandbox games use to make life more interesting. It's a broken sandbox with a crap story, instead of a story-based game or a good sandbox game.
User avatar
charlemagne
Jedi Knight
Posts: 924
Joined: 2008-10-13 02:28am
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: SKRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by charlemagne »

Stark wrote:The scale of Daggerfall was useless.
True, and I don't mean Beth should just remake Daggerfall with nicer graphics. But as you put it, sensible scale would be nice indeed.

They should stop shit like naming every single NPC. Then you can build cities that feel like actual cities, make them trivial to navigate to the important places/NPCs but hey, immersion. No one needs every NPC having their own bed they sleep in at night, no one cares about that, and you don't need it to build a world that feels alive.
Image
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Stark »

Remember, when they made Oblivion they honestly thought Radiant AI, where every NPC was a person with a life and needs etc, was a big step forward that enriched the game. Whether or not that would have been true (had Radiant AI fuckin worked for shit) I think they're still in that space. It's strange, since with respawning badguys and random quests they've already pulled back from a totally crafted world, and they're clearly taking no steps toward real emergent play.

I think the designers at Bethesda just have really fixed ideas on what an RPG should be and are just incrementing toward it, rather than any other goal. How else to explain how amazingly backward Skyrim is?

Amusingly Space Rangers feels way more 'alive' than any Bethesda game, and they only have 40ish 'real' NPCs that cruise around and just spawn and despawn the others as needed. Turns out you can't even tell.
User avatar
charlemagne
Jedi Knight
Posts: 924
Joined: 2008-10-13 02:28am
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by charlemagne »

Yeah, I know, and it was amusing for 5 minutes to follow a NPC around and see what he was doing all day. I just can't imagine that no one at Beth realises that this is just unimportant cosmetics that don't really add anything to the game and clash badly with ever-respawning guards and bandits.

Amusingly Morrowind feels more like a huge world compared to Skyrim because of that.

Skyrim is still enough fun to play, and at least there's nothing like the amazing quest shortage that Oblivion had (with every major town having what, 1 or 2 sidequests? and everything else being either main quest or one of the guilds). As bland as all those quests may be, it still is nice to have something to do besides clearing every dungeon just to clear it.
Image
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Stark »

Thats what I think is nteresting about their design priorities; they've added a bunch of stuff that while years behind the curve really do add a lot to the game. They just can't let go of the old stuff and can't follow through with the new stuff.

It's interesting to contrast this with Bioware, who are willing to turn their fictional worlds inside out to accomodate gameplay changes.
User avatar
Sephirius
Jedi Master
Posts: 1093
Joined: 2005-03-14 11:34pm

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Sephirius »

So am I the only one that totally doesn't care about this game? I never understood the attraction to these sorts of games- they seem to be devoid of any skill required. But I guess I must be in the minority as my MW3 thread has like 1 reply.
Saying smaller engines are better is like saying you don't want huge muscles because you wouldn't fit through the door. So what? You can bench 500. Fuck doors. - MadCat360
Image
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by FaxModem1 »

Sephirius wrote:So am I the only one that totally doesn't care about this game? I never understood the attraction to these sorts of games- they seem to be devoid of any skill required. But I guess I must be in the minority as my MW3 thread has like 1 reply.
I think the main draw is exploration and customization. With the Modern Warfare series, you are pretty much following a carrot on a string, and doing what you're told throughout the entire series, to the point that the No Russian level could have derailed the game by having the player kill all the terrorists in the elevator, but you can't, because they want you to make it from Point A to Point B to Point C, and be quiet if you want to do something else.

Games like the Fallout series, the Elder Scrolls series, the Mass Effect series, is that you get to be the center of it all, unlike real life. You also make choices, and those choices can carry weight story wise. One also gets to explore, see the wonders of someone else's imagination, and conquer, free it, help it, or not even touch it, because it's your choice. It's not Point A to Point B, It's Point A to triangle to Pi to the color orange and then maybe Point B if you want to see how the story goes. This is probably one of the reasons the Final Fantasy series is having problems, they lost that and made things way too linear.

At least, that's why I prefer sandbox style RPG games.
Image
User avatar
Sephirius
Jedi Master
Posts: 1093
Joined: 2005-03-14 11:34pm

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Sephirius »

FaxModem1 wrote:
Sephirius wrote:So am I the only one that totally doesn't care about this game? I never understood the attraction to these sorts of games- they seem to be devoid of any skill required. But I guess I must be in the minority as my MW3 thread has like 1 reply.
I think the main draw is exploration and customization. With the Modern Warfare series, you are pretty much following a carrot on a string, and doing what you're told throughout the entire series, to the point that the No Russian level could have derailed the game by having the player kill all the terrorists in the elevator, but you can't, because they want you to make it from Point A to Point B to Point C, and be quiet if you want to do something else.

Games like the Fallout series, the Elder Scrolls series, the Mass Effect series, is that you get to be the center of it all, unlike real life. You also make choices, and those choices can carry weight story wise. One also gets to explore, see the wonders of someone else's imagination, and conquer, free it, help it, or not even touch it, because it's your choice. It's not Point A to Point B, It's Point A to triangle to Pi to the color orange and then maybe Point B if you want to see how the story goes. This is probably one of the reasons the Final Fantasy series is having problems, they lost that and made things way too linear.

At least, that's why I prefer sandbox style RPG games.
But you miss the point of the MW series, the single player is basically a training regimen for online combat and competition, hence my point about skill. But I'm oldschool from when games used to be hard.
And not just arbitrary difficulty to screw you, proper, fair, difficulty. (contra as an example.)
Saying smaller engines are better is like saying you don't want huge muscles because you wouldn't fit through the door. So what? You can bench 500. Fuck doors. - MadCat360
Image
User avatar
DesertFly
has been designed to act as a flotation device
Posts: 1381
Joined: 2005-10-18 11:35pm
Location: The Emerald City

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by DesertFly »

That was a lame argument as long ago as Quake 3, and that was advertised as a multiplayer-focused game. It's just stupid saying that about a game which supposedly has a fully-fledged single player experience and is being advertised as such.

And anyway, isn't this thread about Skyrim, not the third (or the fifth, if you count the not "Modern Warfare" branded entries) variation of a game from 2007? A game with a completely different play-style and objective than Skyrim?
Proud member of the no sigs club.
User avatar
loomer
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4260
Joined: 2005-11-20 07:57am

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by loomer »

Hey, guess what, we're all from the old school of gaming, Sephirus. We also don't come in and complain about how MW3 is a linear twitchshooter full of dickheads in your thread.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Stark »

I've been talking to people about the draw on games like Beths stable of broken walking simulators, and while I guess it's different for people it really does seem that the primitive design is a result of the audience. I mean I played heaps of these games, despite the broken combat, the bland missions, the awful character mechanic etc... Becuase walking around and finding stuff is kinda fun. It's also very slow, so its easy for the designers to hide numerous sins.

These are games people will rent and sink assloads of time into even when they have no interest in the story and will never play the game again. It seems that the core experience is what people enjoy, even if all the mechanics around it are shit (although obviously there's a huge a market for sp-only games where you are an untouchable powerhouse).
User avatar
Zixinus
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6663
Joined: 2007-06-19 12:48pm
Location: In Seth the Blitzspear
Contact:

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Zixinus »

I am now trying to look up cheats to summon items that I've already picked up.
Specifically, the keys in Volunruud. I have the Ceremonial sword and axe, but the game refuses to acknowledge that I did.
Credo!
Chat with me on Skype if you want to talk about writing, ideas or if you want a test-reader! PM for address.
User avatar
Chardok
GET THE FUCK OFF MY OBSTACLE!
Posts: 8488
Joined: 2003-08-12 09:49am
Location: San Antonio

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Chardok »

Incidentally, I actually did uninstall the game (360 version) and the textures, while not up to PC level of awesome are MILES better. I mean, to the point that even my non-gaming SO said "Wow thats....way better." she kept saying "I wish I could live in a world like that."

then I was Mr. Joy McKillington, saying things like "Yeah, that hut looks awesome, wish I could sleep on that 1 inch think matress made of goathair." and "Jeepers, that WHEEL_OF_CHEESE on the dinner table looks DELIGHTFUL. At least I hope it is, because it's got to last us for 5 months."

Worlds like this are only cool if you're the Good/Evil King or the hero because if not, the only thing to do..I mean the ONLY thing to do to keep from dying of boredom is to start a war.


On the plus side, I had Ricky spectating and he was so enamored of the game that he basically forced me to play all day, and I was his freaking HERO when the first dragon attacked. He was just awestruck at the size of the thing and having the volume all the way up only intensified the experience. He was all "OH! GO AROUND! LOOK OUT FOR THE FIRE! WAIT! MAKE THAT GUY A ZOMBIE TO HELP!" It was a good time :D
Image
User avatar
charlemagne
Jedi Knight
Posts: 924
Joined: 2008-10-13 02:28am
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by charlemagne »

Played a bit more this evening. I really enjoy exploring while en route to quest destinations. The one thing you can't hold against Beth is the amount of love and detail the put into the game world.

What I don't understand is why every npc is so afraid of dragons, I only fought 3 so far and sucked in their souls like this was KOTOR2 and dragons = jedi masters, but there's loads of other enemies way more dangerous to me :D I need a few lucky crits to survive bears, oh and after killing one dragon, I walked up to the thingy he was sitting on and out pops a lich that pwns me in like two seconds :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the challenge. I'm level 13 I think and play on "expert", and actually meeting challening enemies is a very welcome change from (vanilla) Oblivion.
Image
User avatar
Chardok
GET THE FUCK OFF MY OBSTACLE!
Posts: 8488
Joined: 2003-08-12 09:49am
Location: San Antonio

Re: SKYRIM: Let's kill some Dragons!

Post by Chardok »

Stark wrote:It seems that the core experience is what people enjoy, even if all the mechanics around it are shit (although obviously there's a huge a market for sp-only games where you are an untouchable powerhouse).
I feel like I fall firmly into this category. Although I am interested in the story. (Referring to the previous point). I like to just walk around and really soak up the world in Games like OblivirimOut 3 and all the better when I can walk into a joint and be like 'SUP BITCHES?! BOOM you are all dead LOL I AM ALL POWERFUL! you are all INSECTS! You are on the way to destruction make your time!

Plus, you know, dragons.
Image
Post Reply