Let's play: Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space

[Eternal_Freedom]

Right, with a shifty glance to page 1 for the program details:

The Grand Plan for Fall 1963

Budget: 106 MB

R&D Orders:
-Begin Titan program, 1 team (64 MB)
-Assign 5 teams to Mercury R&D (5 MB)
-R&D Total Cost: 69 MB

Procurement Orders:
-Purchase 3x Atlas boosters (9 MB)
-Purchase 2x Mercury Capsule (3 MB)
-Purchase 2x Explorer Satellites (2 MB)
-Procurement Total: 14 MB

Launch Schedule:
-Schedule a MANNED ORBITAL FLIGHT for FALL 1963 with KELLY as prime crew and CUNTSER as backup
-Schedule 2x Explorer orbital missions

Total Expenditure: 83 MB
Remaining Funds for Fall 1963: 23MB

All clear?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ghetto Edit: Shit, I meant that to be 1x Mercury capsule.

[PeZook]

Very clear, yes. Tomorrow the world might get rocked

[Eternal_Freedom]

I know I'm over-emphasisng things, but we had a few mix ups in the past. Time to setlle things once and for all!

I tihnk I've got the hang of thise budgeting thing too. I also spent ten minutes carefully copying all the project details into 4 notepad files, so I'll always have the numbers handy.

I have slept but now I have awakened, and the campaign can begin in earnest! The whole world will know our names!

Oncidentally, I've been looking at the cost per payload for the Murcan rockets, and the SAturn V is the best balance. Explains things.

[PeZook]

Don't sweat it, I very much appreciate clear and well-emphasized posts, since I hate mixups as well.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Then this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...

[Simon_Jester]

I'll work up a budget this evening (Eastern Seaboard United States time).

"Comrade, this entire pad was built for the cheap!", the maintenance chief was waving his arms around in excitation, "There's traces everywhere, cheap steel, cheap cement, cheap water pumps! Everything cheaper than what it was supposed to be! And the difference probably went to some bureaucrat's pocket!"

"Yes, yes, calm down, comrade. Assuming you get the funds, how fast can this be fixed?"

"Six months, no less. It has to be done properly this time, da? Will have to oversee everything myself!"

Syrgy sighed. At least the problem didn't kill anyone this time, but he could already see the Comissar interrogating everyone...AGAIN.

We will have to go most carefully over the documentation of the pad's construction... during the von Evilstein administration of the Cosmodrome.

The only problems are technical and logistical: Zenobian infrastructure is suffering from neglect and corruption, and it may show up later as well (hint: I skipped ahead and it will, but I won't tell you just how )

SHITS!

So, just to check, are 'random events' in this game predetermined at game start, such that every time you load the game you get the same sequence of random events?

Also, still hoping for female cosmonaut event, just so we can have Comrade Svetmaya join the team.

The two currently serving Voshkhod crews seem decently compatible: the drop in moods isn't higher than expected for a year of no flying. Of course, unless the thing flies soon, the Zenobians WILL lose a crew, and become unable to do manned flights.

Absolutely. Worst case, I'm seriously considering yanking a pair of trainee cosmonauts to form a third flight crew, maybe even a fourth; there's a lot of promising talent there.

Note that cosmonauts in Zenobian basic training have all gained a point in some of their skills. They still have on year's training left, unless Syrgy Pavylyvych decides to yank some of them out.

I wouldn't do it if I didn't have to, but my personnel management slip-up with the vanguard Group I cosmonauts has left me with some serious problems.

Need some time to think that one over.

Also, to think over beginning the Proton project this turn...

Don't sweat it, I very much appreciate clear and well-emphasized posts, since I hate mixups as well.

Anything you want changed about my format?

[ChaserGrey]

Spoiler

Still reading over the back thread, but things look to be shaping up pretty well. For what it's worth, I've managed to win this thing several times and have a decent feel for what works and what doesn't. Can someone summarize what mode decisions the two teams have made? Did the minishuttle "gentleman's agreement" go through?

[Simon_Jester]

The minishuttle "gentleman's agreement" has gone through; we've worked our way towards it gradually but I think it's pretty well established. Doomy wanted to violate the agreement and go for a Voskhod/Proton joint rendevous scheme, but his plan was partly plagiarized and his proposed schedule of a 1967 victory was blatantly full of shit, so that went nowhere.

Syrgy Pavylyvych would probably be just as happy to go for Soyuz/Kicker-C, but a historical lunar landing appeals to him too. That said, we've agreed to steer the game in the direction of minishuttles, so yes that is on.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The Murcans fully intend to honour the Minishuttle agreement, if only for the hilarity that will ensue, like colonel Ravensburg flying the prototype XM-1 Ravenstar. Lots of Ravens buzzing around.

Also, depending on how far we can take this game, I am seriously considering developing Nova and going for a manned MArs landing as well.

So, PeZook, the question arises: at what point does the game "end"? When someone lands upon the Moon? Or can it just keep going? And is there a time limit? I know Teddy said Fall 1969 at the latest, but how long does the game let you take? Fall 1979? 1989?

[ChaserGrey]

Okay, cool. For what it's worth, here's my experience (using Murcan names for convenience, but applies to both sides):

- The Gemini/Titan/Cricket moon package looks good on paper but doesn't work well in practice. Too many components, too low reliability since they're early generation, and you need two launch pads to get a mission off the ground which means you can fly once a season, max.

- The methods I've had the best success with are an EOR mission with minishuttles and the Soyuz/Kicker-C combo. The former works because you need a *lot* of prep missions before a landing, especially to develop your docking skill, so sending up three minishuttles turn after turn ends up being cheaper than buying capsules. The second is pretty KISS and has high reliability.

- If you go the minishuttle route it can often be worth it to skip Gemini and go straight to the shuttle. You start saving on launches sooner and by not doing Gemini you can grab prestige points for being the first to get your shuttle flying and the first three-man crew.

- I've made Direct Ascent work reasonably well, but as someone said a while back it's a chancy, all-or-nothing proposition. If it works, you can go from a standing start to a Moon landing in just a few missions. If it doesn't, you can end up with partially researched rockets and capsules and no money to finish them or buy more.

- Historical type missions can work, but I've found it's usually a better deal to go the minishuttle route.

- LOR as implemented in the game doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's safer to go with EOR, in my opinion, because 1) you only have to brake one stack into lunar orbit and 2) if your docking gets f***'d up your crew just has to reenter, not make it all the way back from the Moon.

@Eternal_Freedom: The game gives you until Spring 1977, I think. If you haven't landed a man on the moon within 20 years, you're SOL.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hmmm....even with the appalling mismanagement evident in both programs ONE of us should have managed it by then

[ChaserGrey]

Hey, appalling mismanagement is part of the fun in BARIS!

I'm not sure if you've played it before, E_F, but as someone who wasted way too much time on it during high school- if you'd like another assistant to help make plans or run ideas past, (and poor Lt. Brown) are of course at your disposal.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Johnny von Braun stood and addressed the meeting of senior MASA officials, all present except for Sam, who was on vacation in some godforsaken country (probably Stenchia).

"Gentlemen, I am most pleased to announce it has been a good season for us so far. The two Mercury flights went flawlessly, and we made a major breakthrough that will greatly improve the safetyt of the Mercury capsule on our next launch.

To that end I have assigned Astronauts Kelly and Cuntser as prime and backup for a orbital flight in the Fall. OhJesus' fiery death will be avenged as a Murcan soars through the Heavens to safely return!"

This generated much cheering, altrhough it was somewhat muted by the memory of that tragedy.

"I am also pleased to annouce the beginning of the Titan rocket program, our next-generation launcher. Atlas has served us well but we soon will need larger and larger spacecraft to meet our Moon landing deadline, and the Atlas is just too small for our needs. Titan will serve admirably in this regard."

"Our second group of astronauts has now begun training, and look very promising indeed! Some of them will land on the Moon in the not too distant future, and I can safely say they are ready and willing to rise to the challenge."

Johnny then glanced at the new face at the table.

"Finally, I would like to introduce Mr. Grey, a recent addition to MASA. He comes to us to head up our new Computational Analysis section. He and his team will be using advanced new supercomputers to simulate planned missions in advance, and show us which direction is most likely to achieve success. Mr. Grey, welcome to MASA."
Spoiler

ChaserGrey, you can take that as a "yes please" on the advice/analysis thing. Feel free to submit ideas and plans, especially while barnest is away on holiday, I'm gonna need help. At the rate this is going we could be doing moonshots by the time he gets back.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Johnny von Braun stood and addressed the meeting of senior MASA officials, all present except for Sam, who was on vacation in some godforsaken country (probably Stenchia).

"Gentlemen, I am most pleased to announce it has been a good season for us so far. The two Mercury flights went flawlessly, and we made a major breakthrough that will greatly improve the safetyt of the Mercury capsule on our next launch.

To that end I have assigned Astronauts Kelly and Cuntser as prime and backup for a orbital flight in the Fall. OhJesus' fiery death will be avenged as a Murcan soars through the Heavens to safely return!"

This generated much cheering, altrhough it was somewhat muted by the memory of that tragedy.

"I am also pleased to annouce the beginning of the Titan rocket program, our next-generation launcher. Atlas has served us well but we soon will need larger and larger spacecraft to meet our Moon landing deadline, and the Atlas is just too small for our needs. Titan will serve admirably in this regard."

"Our second group of astronauts has now begun training, and look very promising indeed! Some of them will land on the Moon in the not too distant future, and I can safely say they are ready and willing to rise to the challenge."

Johnny then glanced at the new face at the table.

"Finally, I would like to introduce Mr. Grey, a recent addition to MASA. He comes to us to head up our new Computational Analysis section. He and his team will be using advanced new supercomputers to simulate planned missions in advance, and show us which direction is most likely to achieve success. Mr. Grey, welcome to MASA."
Spoiler

ChaserGrey, you can take that as a "yes please" on the advice/analysis thing. Feel free to submit ideas and plans, especially while barnest is away on holiday, I'm gonna need help. At the rate this is going we could be doing moonshots by the time he gets back.

[ChaserGrey]

"Gentlemen." Mister Grey nodded to the astronauts as he stood. "The scenario I am about to present to you is only one of several that are under consideration at MASA headquarters, but I'm presenting it to give you one possible idea of what the future might look like. As our plans become harder, firmer, and more solid-" He trailed off for a moment, staring at the amassed manly Murcans- "er, sorry, we will keep you in the loop."

"Now then." Grey pulled down a chart, showing a lifting body shape. "Gentlemen, this is the XMS-2. This scenario calls for us to bypass the advanced two-man capsule proposal, codenamed Gemini, and proceed directly to the three-man minishuttle that will take us to the Moon. It will take some time to be ready, but," he cut off the grumbles from the audience, "in the meantime we plan several orbital Mercury missions, including missions to test the new EVA Suit technology and an extended three-day flight."

"Once the XMS-2 is ready, we will use the Titan rocket the Director mentioned to launch a series of manned and unmanned Earth orbital missions. The unmanned shots will let us develop our rendezvous and docking skills without risking you needlessly, while the manned missions will concentrate on longer and longer duration flights. At the same time, we will be using the Titan to launch a series of Ranger probes to the Moon and possibly other targets in the Solar System. I hope you like rocket fumes, gentlemen, because it's going to get pretty thick around here."
Spoiler

Lunar recon is another thing that takes a while, and is better done sooner than later. Visiting other planets is optional, but if you have the hardware it's a good way to pick up some points.
Edit: it's also a Real Good idea to do a bunch of unmanned docking missions first. The skill starts at 40%, and goes up by 5% for failed dockings and 10% for sucessful docking attempts. For reasons known only to the BARIS coders, failed docking attempts can trigger explosions that kill the crew on manned missions but the worst that happens on unmanned flights is that docking doesn't work. So you do a bunch of unmanned missions with your shuttles, then switch to manned missions to pick up the prestige points.

Grey flipped over his next chart. "At the same time, we'll be developing a lunar module, which will descend from orbit around the Moon to land its crew on the surface. When all the pieces are in place, we project a series of deep-space flights leading up to an eventual landing."

Later, in the Director's office, Grey laid out papers on the his desk.

"Sir, as you can see I recommend an EOR profile with the Kicker-B proposal. The major question is what form the Lunar lander should take. The one-man Cricket is more expensive, but with it we could launch a complete mission on one of your proposed, uh", he checked the plans, "Saturn V rockets. If we go with the larger and heavier Eagle, even the Saturn V will need a booster stage to get off the ground. I recommend against a multiple-launch profile at this time."

[Eternal_Freedom]

"Hmmm...you say even the Saturn-V would need boosters for the XMS-2, Eagle and docking module? That might cause problems....what advantages does a two-man lander have over a one-man ship?

[PeZook]

Simon, Race Into Space 4.8 allows you to yank astronauts out of training, form them into flight crews and plan missions with them all in a single season ; So there's no reason to yank cosmonauts early. If both flight crews for the proposed launch break up you won't assign another one anyway ; If you lose one in the planning stage, you can just replace it.

You format is great ; The only thing I'd change is that when you budget for hardware, please indicate if this is for the planned flights, of extra purchases.

And yes, the events seem to have been rolled at the start of the game, though some of them have changing variables (like which astronaut dies in an accident etc.)

I do check if an event stays the same after reloading the game and inform you accordingly.

EDIT: As for landers, well, in game the difference is that the Crickett is more expensive. IRL, a two-man lander has an entire slew of advantages: it is safer to fly (because you have a copilot, without which at least two Apollo missions would've crashed or aborted), it allows for longer EVAs (because there's less risk - you have a buddy to help if something goes wrong), it can carry a lot more instrumentation (since two astronauts will have the time to set it all up) and of course brings back a lot more SCIENCE! with it, since any workload is spread around two people. For example. one can make photos while the other sets up experiments, you can collect more rocks, etc.

[ChaserGrey]

"Hmmm...you say even the Saturn-V would need boosters for the XMS-2, Eagle and docking module? That might cause problems....what advantages does a two-man lander have over a one-man ship?

"The two-man ship carries substantially less technical risk, Sir. Lower costs to start up, lower per-unit purchase costs, and we estimate it will cost half as much for our engineers to work on. I think it might be worth accepting the risk of the boosters, Director."
Spoiler

If you look at the flashcards on pg. 1, you can see the differences. The biggest one, besides the obvious weight, is that Eagle R&D costs are 2/team, Cricket are 4/team and overall reliability is lower. It can be a real PITA to R&D, especially if you're also doing other expensive programs. Since I believe (but could be wrong?) we're developing boosters anyway, I think Eagle is worth it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

A question: is our yearly budget determined solely by performance, or does it gradually increase as we go?

[Simon_Jester]

[Grumbles at superior BARIS-experience of people playing Murcan team; I'm having to make this up on the fly]

[Grumbles further at fact that I am realistically committed to Voskhod for a number of reasons, regardless of whether in theory it might be better to go straight to Lapot. At least I can do docking trials for cheep. Mwahahahaaa!]

[Pesky evolved Murcan paleodinosaur futurodynasoar shuttloids]

[PeZook]

I'm not sure about these explosions Chaser mentioned ; Remember that this is not really the original game, but an open source recoding, so some things are different. I've never had a crew die due to docking, and a manned docking mission lets you combine docking with other stuff, like they did on Gemini: docking, spacewalk, duration etc.

Of course that risks failure during some step, but hey

We will discuss docking once the first orbital hurdles are behind us ; Then the game gets REALLY complicated.

[ChaserGrey]

[Simon, if it helps bypassing Gemini/Voskhod isn't a clear-cut decision. It costs more overall doing it your way, but you're pretty much guaranteed to beat the Murcans to the first multi-man crew and maybe some other steps too. I prefer going straight through, but that's me.]

[ChaserGrey]

I'm not sure about these explosions Chaser mentioned ; Remember that this is not really the original game, but an open source recoding, so some things are different. I've never had a crew die due to docking, and a manned docking mission lets you combine docking with other stuff, like they did on Gemini: docking, spacewalk, duration etc.

Hrm. That would change things. Combined missions are generally a Good Thing, all else being equal. As RL program director Chris Kraft put it- once you've committed to launch and reentry, you've bought most of the risk associated with a mission. Therefore, it makes sense to do as much as possible once you're up there, so another crew doesn't have to go up and do it later.

I'd still want to do some unmanned docking attempts first, though. Even if they took the **** docking explosions out a failed docking attempt still cancels later planned events and sends you right back to Earth.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Chaser, sorry I missed your response earlier. I think we'll go with Eagle, for the reasons you mentioned. Plus, I think "Eagle" is just a cooler name for a LEM than "Cricket" which even though it's an insect, always remidns me of interminable Test matchs on TV