Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people
* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 
Want to support this site? Click

Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 94 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 08:55am
Offline
Jedi Council Member

Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Posts: 2023
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Oh, you'd just love the other ACs, Starkers. :lol:


AC6's combat model, with its awesome "allied support" and actual friendly squadrons and land units who did shit (i mean, an Aegis cruiser fleet's missile salvo is a sight to behold) + AC4's superb plot would be the best air combat action game ever.



I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 09:01am
Offline
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Posts: 19927
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Except 6's plot is a shallow and cringe-worthy attempt at replicating 04's plot.



Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 09:03am
Offline
Sith Devotee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-03-04 07:52pm
Posts: 2910
Location: Korea.
I say that the Erusian's were using "experimental" fighter designs because many of the aircraft you encountered late game, were, in "2005" incomplete. The SU-37 with forward swept wings never went into mass production in our world. Erusea had it and put into production because, as the end neared for it, it began to quickly rush the "experimental" designs of AltEarth to the frontlines in desperation. I applied the same logic to the super-sonic bombers. Again, we see them a lot in *our* world. But we never saw much of them in AC4 after Emancipation. This seems likely because Erusea didn't build many of them, and rushed the ones they had built into service.

The only successful "advanced" designed the Erusean's used was a direct "knock off" of ISAF's F-22 Raptor. I call it a "knock off" because ISAF was often portrayed using the F-22 as a symbol of sorts. So it wouldn't have made as much sense for Erusea to call it one of their "experimental" late designs. Their F-22 was a direct copy of ISAF models. Which indicates the aircraft had been designed prior to the war and shared amongst ISAF's members.

Quote:
Where are you getting this from? The squad did make it to the city, wherein they were all shot down by Mobius 1.


You mean you didn't just QAAM spam them as soon as they entered the map over the ocean? :)

Edit: Ace Combat 6 makes me sick. It's a shallow attempt to duplicate AC4's storyline but it completely fails because their is zero effort to maintain consistency. I've tried rationalizing it as well but ultimately you have to resort to magic for about half of it. This does not equal good storytelling, much less a game I would *want* analyze.



Best care anywhere.

What is Project Zohar?

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 09:56am
Offline
Sith Devotee
User avatar

Joined: 2002-08-30 11:45am
Posts: 3138
I would like to see your take on Gears of War. I really didn't like the game's aesthetic design, just a mass of grey, black, blackish grey, light grey, more black, and maybe some red mixed with black when the bullets hit. Still, it was a neat setting, and if the setting is crafted as well as AC4, it'll be a fun read.



Image

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 09:59am
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Posts: 36168
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Oh, Hawks and I can go on for hours about how Gears of 'no story/character depth' is far more complex than people (ie stupid reviewers) seem to think.

And fix Mass Effect's plot so it doesn't hinge on everyone being complete retards.

We're both clever and INCREDIBLY bored. :lol:



Elfdart wrote:
my first manager and I spent the better part of an hour in his office asking an insanely hot female employee to go through the "B" authors in the Lit section. Why? Because that would make her climb up on the ladder right where the security camera was and gave us a perfect view of her perfect gazongas
whatisprojectzohar.com

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 10:00am
Offline
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Posts: 19927
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
CaptHawkeye wrote:
I say that the Erusian's were using "experimental" fighter designs because many of the aircraft you encountered late game, were, in "2005" incomplete. The SU-37 with forward swept wings never went into mass production in our world. Erusea had it and put into production because, as the end neared for it, it began to quickly rush the "experimental" designs of AltEarth to the frontlines in desperation.


You could say that. But if you take into account the rest of the Ace Combat world, then those Su-47s and F-15 ACTIVEs aren't really experimental designs since they've seen action ten years before the Usean Continental War.

Quote:
I applied the same logic to the super-sonic bombers. Again, we see them a lot in *our* world. But we never saw much of them in AC4 after Emancipation. This seems likely because Erusea didn't build many of them, and rushed the ones they had built into service.


Mmm... maybe they just didn't build many of them. Like those Su-47s and F-15 ACTIVEs and F-22s. Probably because of the Ulysses-caused financial difficulties, and due to budget stomping to fund the Stonehenge projects and all that.

I think that Erusea and the ISAF both started with the same crappy old-school equipment, and that both sides weren't able to mass manufacture state-of-the-art models due to financial hardships. This is why, when North Point was endangered by enemy bombers, all the ISAF could send was a widdle F-5.

The reason why later in the war, the ISAF ended up having stuff like F-22s was probably due to lend-lease from other nations not directly involved in the war, such as Osea and Yuktobania.

Quote:
The only successful "advanced" designed the Erusean's used was a direct "knock off" of ISAF's F-22 Raptor. I call it a "knock off" because ISAF was often portrayed using the F-22 as a symbol of sorts. So it wouldn't have made as much sense for Erusea to call it one of their "experimental" late designs. Their F-22 was a direct copy of ISAF models. Which indicates the aircraft had been designed prior to the war and shared amongst ISAF's members.


The Ace Combat world really doesn't adhere to conventional stuff wherein particular nations end up with particular aircraft. It seems that in their world, every nation gets a mishmash of real-life American, Western NATO, and Russian Warsaw type of equipment.

I blame the corporations for this, and not without reason. In Ace Combat 5, we see that the Grunder Corporation was a former Belkan national munitions producer but was privatized when South Belka was assimilated into Osea. We see Grunder provide weapons to not only Osea, but also Yuktobania, and when shit hit the fan the corporation had manipulated things far enough so that it could reliably call on the aid of treacherous units in BOTH militaries.

In Ace Combat 3, which is set in the future of the Ace Combat world, things go so far that the corporations have replaced nations and that its the corporations that are waging war against each other, and against rebels and the remaining world governments, in a complex multi-sided war large enough to fit 3 CDs, so complex that the player can CHOOSE which side to defect to. AND it's a cyberpunk mess where the player is actually a fighter simulation AI system.


Ace Combat 6 is a real shame. It had all the potential to be an Ace Combat of TEN THOUSAND AWESOMES, but the presentation was a shit attempt at combining 04, 5 and Zero and it became a mess. A very good looking mess with rather nice gameplay.

Multiple tunnel runs! LANDING IN A RECENTLY CAPTURED AIRFIELD IN THE MIDDLE OF COMBAT! Man. Six should be played without the cinematics. :D

Dance with the angels! Golden King! MATILDAAAAAA!!! :lol:



Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 10:35am
Offline
Jedi Council Member

Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Posts: 2023
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Except 6's plot is a shallow and cringe-worthy attempt at replicating 04's plot.


You might have noticed I specifically talked about the combat system and mated it with AC04's plot, and never ever mentioned the horrid AC6 plot.

Edit: Oh, yeah, I can see where there might be some confusion - I said *would*, implying I was talking about a hypothetical alt AC6 with a worthy plot, not the AC6 we got.



I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 11:28am
Offline
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Posts: 19927
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
I know what you meant, but I wanted to bitch for myself too. :P



Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 11:42am
Offline
Sith Devotee
User avatar

Joined: 2002-08-30 11:45am
Posts: 3138
I got so sick of hearing Dance with the Angels I was considering changing sides. It was effective the first time, where she learns her daughter is still alive. The rest of the time it's just retarded. Like when that enemy ace is interrogating captured pilots. I would have liked to see them beaten for their pointless bravura. What does it say about a game that I got such a loathing for people on my own side?



Image

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 11:59am
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Posts: 9478
Location: Sheffield, UK
Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Ace Combat 6 is a real shame. It had all the potential to be an Ace Combat of TEN THOUSAND AWESOMES, but the presentation was a shit attempt at combining 04, 5 and Zero and it became a mess. A very good looking mess with rather nice gameplay.

Multiple tunnel runs! LANDING IN A RECENTLY CAPTURED AIRFIELD IN THE MIDDLE OF COMBAT! Man. Six should be played without the cinematics. :D

Dance with the angels! Golden King! MATILDAAAAAA!!! :lol:


Too many viewpoint characters in AC6. Also, Sam Riegel attempting to emote. Not a good combination.

If they'd dialled back the headcount and put a couple of missions in between the first two covering the retreat under fire, it would be greatly improved storywise.

AC6 still has some of the best actual missions of the series.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 12:08pm
Offline
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Posts: 19927
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Gameplaywise, it was awesome, yes. It's just such a horrific shame that the story... AUGH!

I could bitch about it forever! :lol:

I mean, shit, all the previous Aces were totally interesting - even when 5 and Zero had total bullshit plots! :P

What the fuck happened to the Storyteller Boy (04), War Journalist (Zero) and Genette's (5, X) voice actor, anyway? Where was he? Why was he replaced with Melissa and motherfucking Matilda?! Aurgh!

At least we had Kei Nagase there. And Grimm! And PJ! Lanner! Sky Kid!


EDIT:

I did dig McKnight's story though. The tankers were totally badass! :D



Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 12:46pm
Offline
Sith Devotee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-03-04 07:52pm
Posts: 2910
Location: Korea.
Addition, I did notice that Stonehenge was not in Erusea but was actually beyond its borders in Usea south of San Salvacion. The Erusean's receive most of the credit for the facility so I believe it was staffed mostly by them. When the military buildup began Erusea probably used political games to keep a military protection force at the facility. Claiming that the facility was "Erusean territory".

Since Stonehenge is surrounded by rough terrain, and would prevent any Allied Air Cover for advancing ground units, an attack on the facility early in the war would have been simply impossible.

Edit: What Shroom Man said before about what happened to the storylines in the following games is true. They over reacted to the praise they got over AC4's good narrative and concluded "EMO PLOT = BETTAR STORYTELLIN". They never realized that what AC4 work so well was the simplicity and direct, professional nature of delivery.

I personally consider the best voice acting and scripting performances in any game go to AC4's "Mission Briefer" and "Sky Eye". Along with CoD4's "Command" and "AC-130 crew". Why? Because they sounded like real professionals and real people. Yet many nerds totally ignore those aspects and instead concentrate on IMPRESSIVE MONOLOGUE OF EMOTIONAL DELIVERY. YOU BLEW IT UP! OH GOOOD DAMN YOU!



Best care anywhere.

What is Project Zohar?

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 01:51pm
Offline
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Posts: 19927
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
It's really a subtle balance they pulled there with Sky Eye and the Mission Brief(er). On one hand, to make it too professional would make it too robotic, but to add tiny bits like "hey, it's my birthday" or "god's speed, Mobius 1" make them awesome but not, as Hawks says, like IMPRESSIVE MONOLOGUE OF EMOTIONAL DELIVERY. YOU BLEW IT UP! OH GOOOD DAMN YOU!

I mean, come on. It started with Ace 5 with their loudmouthed Thunderhead and later in the game we get Okaba Nieba or something, which is "Sky Eye in your language" and everyone over the radio starts singing. What the hell? And in Zero, we got gems like "DEMON LORD OF THE ROUND TABLE!" and yeah. But it was tolerable since Eagle Eye in Zero was practically just Sky Eye. It was tolerable since while there was melodrama, Five and Zero kept the battlefield and the plot in the forefront.

But man, in Six, I can't believe it.

It fails whereas 04 succeeds and Five and Zero do good because while 04, Five and Zero keep the battlefield and the plot in the forefront, Six just focuses on the... ugh. The storyline is disjointed so we can see DANCE WITH THE ANGELS and ENEMY ACE EATS GROCERY BAG APPLE and shtick. Multiple POVs of superfluous characters who have barely anything to do with the story! Haha!

It's just like, ugh, Pearl Harbor.


EDIT:

Kei Nagase is hot though!



Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!


Last edited by Shroom Man 777 on 2009-01-19 01:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 01:51pm
Offline
Avatar of Confusion
User avatar

Joined: 2002-10-12 04:38pm
Posts: 5835
Location: Peace River: Badlands, Terra Nova Winter 1936
Hey guys, go dance with the angels!



Do not meddle in the affairs of insomniacs, for they are cranky and can do things to you while you sleep.
Image
The Realm of Confusion
"Every time you talk about Teal'c, I keep imagining Thor's ass. Thank you very much for that, you fucking fucker." -Marcao
SG-14: Because in some cases, "Recon" means "Blow up a fucking planet or die trying."
SilCore Wiki! Come take a look!

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 06:31pm
Offline
Sith Devotee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-03-04 07:52pm
Posts: 2910
Location: Korea.
Part 4: Erusea’s Mistakes

The folly of a nation’s leaders can bring it to many dark times. War is a very sensitive kind of challenge to lead people through because, contrary to popular belief, all wars are inherently out of control. My grandfather described war as 80% luck, and 20% skill. I don’t think luck is that major a deciding factor personally. It’s more like 50% luck, 30% skill, 20% of everything else. Luck has been changing the outcome of battles for a long time. That being said, there is still a single way countries can somewhat “control” the outcome of a war. Economic determinism. If your country is bigger in population, industry, and economy, chances are, you’ll win any war you get into with a smaller opponent.

But wait, it still isn’t that simple. What if your opponent is on the other side of the planet? What if there is an entire ocean separating both of you? Like Stark would say, simplistic analysis of huge events is totally worthless. Black/Whiting everything is just bullshit. Everything plays a role, but nobody knows the future. That’s why luck ultimately ends up the cruel decision maker of the battlefield. Sometimes luck FAVORS one side. How much it favors that side is often up to the situation.

Back to the game, Erusea’s leaders felt that they could take advantage of the distance between themselves and their enemy. They worked to take advantage of the poor preparation ISAF had at the start of the war. Like most underpowered belligerent states, they failed to take into account ISAF’s own advantages. Hoping that luck would favor them more than their enemy. It’s possible that, if the moon was just right, Erusea could have indeed accomplished its goals. ISAF would have some kind of external issue preventing them from re-taking Usea. Erusea would eventually grow into a world super power of equal strength to say, Yuktobania or Osea. (AC’s Insert Soviet Union and Insert United States.) They came close, but never really close enough. So what did they do wrong?

1. They started the war. This may seem comically self evident but really, it’s true. Erusea opted to use its own “brand” of warfare to defeat the largely conventional forces and tactics of ISAF. Erusea took a real gamble with its strategy. Use its playing cards to capture Usea, break the ISAF’s back, and remove their enemy from the playing field before his gargantuan industrial advantage could come to play. They weren’t ready for the war after all.

Unfortunately for Erusea, they were more ready than they thought. Ultimately Erusea’s projections were over optimistic. They failed to place enough effort into taking North Point which ultimately proved to be a much tougher nut to crack than initially believed. They assumed that ISAF would give up easily, when it was very likely that even if they had taken North Point, ISAF would have kept coming. However, that small possibility of ISAF giving up motivated them. It compelled them, and it killed them.

2. Failure to build a real Air Force. Erusea was a nation with a history of naval supremacy. In its history, it had probably beaten a much stronger navy at some point and had garnered a reputation of utter supremacy in the local seas. This isn’t a bad thing in and of itself. In our own history, there has only been one case where a single nation with an inferior navy managed to conquer an opposing nation with complete naval supremacy. Sparta’s war against Athens. (Some might also say “The Soviet Union vs. Nazi Germany”, but it disregards the fact that the Soviets were allies with Britain and the United States. Holders of the two biggest Navies in the world. They most definitely had naval supremacy, even if it wasn’t directly held by them.)

However, if Erusea was going to build a massive blue water navy at the cost of sufficient land-based Air Power, than the LEAST they could have done was built a huge Naval Air Arm as well. Though I suppose it’s possible that building a huge fleet of super carriers was no longer possible for them after they had drained a great amount of national effort in the construction of Stonehenge and Megalith.

If that was so, then again, they never should have built the Aegir Fleet. They should have built a much greater quantity of aircraft and they should have built the facilities necessary to train the pilots for them. If they had done that, North Point could have been reduced to an impotent smoldering ruin early on, with the threat of land based air blockade preventing any overseas resupply of North Point.

Of course, what the Erusians would do when ISAF began to surround Usea with fleets of super carriers is pretty questionable.

3. Over reliance on Stonehenge to achieve aerial supremacy. Stonehenge had been transformed to an AA battery of great power during the war. Erusea had every reason to use it for that role, after all, they had spent a lifetime’s worth of energy and labor into building the installation. If they were going to war, the least they could do was use it for that. However, Stonehenge was limited obviously by its range and detection capabilities. If Erusea had an air force of comparable strength to ISAF’s, these disadvantages would not have been so war-breaking. However, the use of a surface strong naval force was used instead, for cultural reasons. This severely limited Erusea’s offensive capabilities beyond Stonehenge, and they would pay the price for it.

4. Erusea was disorganized. Even when Erusea had the right strategic idea in mind, their ability to carry out important objectives was cut short by one or another lacking factor. Erusea’s bombers frequently attacked with poor escort or no escort at all. Their important strategic facilities were all protected by little more than local patrols. Upon hearing word of an attack, cries of help would be made to Stonehenge instead of Erusean Air Command. Their command structure was confused and awkward. Erusea’s leaders chose to carry out a war thousands of miles away from the safety of Farbanti. Undoubtedly creating a communications headache.

5. Erusea had no foreign allies. It’s funny that violent militarist governments frequently obtain power in AltEarth, but they never seem to form very close knit alliances. Then again, Erusea wasn’t “like” other fascist governments. Erusea was motivated by social feelings of abandonment, not national supremacy. Erusea would probably be a country simply oblivious to its actions. It might even publically denounce the actions of other fascist regimes (if there were any at the time) and then steamroll another Usean town the same day. Perhaps it created a political status quo of sorts. “Only Erusea is Erusea’s ally.” Where a strong sense of national self-sufficiency was the order of the system.

Erusea is different from other historical fascist states both real and fictional, but war does not discriminate. Strategy is strategy. Erusea made many painful mistakes early on its planning. Some it seems to have been aware of and attempted to fix or at least conceal. Ultimately the issue was that Erusea simply couldn’t afford to make mistakes of any kind. Unlike ISAF, who could afford far greater losses in equipment and personnel. It’s likely that even if Shattered Skies had been a Erusean success, ISAF would still have been an overwhelming opponent within the course of a few months. After the Aegir Fleet died Erusea shifted to a strategy of politics design to exhaust ISAF’s leaders and persuade to seek a negotiated settlement. But botched counter attacks, disorganized defenses, and the loss of one unrecoverable asset after another could only lead to the end.



Best care anywhere.

What is Project Zohar?

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 08:22pm
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2006-04-22 05:15pm
Posts: 7085
Location: Britain
Very good work, CaptHawkeye, glad to know I wasn't the only one who recognised what the war was all about in Ace Combat 4 - it was obvious the sinking of Erusea's premier naval group two thirds into the game was the strategic turning point, Erusea's Midway crossed with a more ingrained Pearl Harbour where everything turned to shit and they were mostly on the back foot (gradually all the way back to their homeland). Being obsessed with their navy could've contributed to naval officers in Erusea traditionally having dispropotionate power in military decision making, so historical attempts of the Erusea Army trying to expand their nascant air wing often got figuratively shot down in conferences out of jealousy, leading to the mostly fragmented and underfunded Erusea Air Force that we had in AC4.

The Yellow Squandron seems to be a Erusea equivalent of the Qing Dynasty's Beiyang Army, giving a good account itself on a tactical level and created the illusion of a strategically powerful airforce (in the same way the Panzer Divisions gave the illusion of a fully mechanized German military).

The Erusea Navy's influence could be such that the Megalith island facility was most likely a naval base at heart, staffed mainly by Erusian Navy sailors and marines, rather than just soldiers and airmen.



'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil

'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid

'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-19 11:21pm
Offline
Sith Devotee

Joined: 2005-07-31 06:48am
Posts: 3395
Here's the worst part re: "dance" and "angels" in the same sentence...

... not even defecting will help.
Lt. Cmdr. Ilya Pasternak, Estovakian Air Force wrote:
Toscha, give me one of those apples you have there. Then go have a dance with the angels, will ya?
I loved Ace Combat 6 for gameplay, but even I noticed something wrong with "dance" and "angels" in the same sentence in AC6 as I was playing/watching...

By the way, here's something that I noticed off about the 'emo' of AC5 and AC6... good lord, if you want to give Thunderhead or Ghost Eye a coronary? Just shoot down Lt. Col. Ford (who was supposed to be Capt. Bartlett's replacement as flight lead) or Frank "Garuda 2, Shamrock" Lumpert.

The "Demon Lord" bit was fuckyeah though, don't knock it. Besides, only at the end (when it looks like V2 is nigh) does Eagle Eye cede this; at all other times you are Galm 1 or Cipher.



"Yee's proposal is exactly the sort of thing I would expect some Washington legal eagle to do. In fact, it could even be argued it would be unrealistic to not have a scene in the next book of, say, a Congressman Yee submit the Yee Act for consideration. :D" - bcoogler on this

"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet

Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 12:09am
Offline
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: 2004-07-31 01:34am
Posts: 750
Besides, Galm's flight patch was awesome.



"There are times I'd like to get my hands on God." - Frank Castle

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 05:02am
Offline
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
User avatar

Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Posts: 19927
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Zero was pretty good in the whole dealing with the soldiers of war, the characters were generally rather awesome even though a whole lot of the plot and the World Without Boundaries shtick was ridiculous. But awesome, in its own way! Idealism! Nihilism! Fly as always, fly by me! A disgusting squabble on who gets the largest piece of the pie! Yo, buddy! It's good fun.

Five was also good. Sure, Thunderhead was bloody annoying and it was totally ridiculous as Zero's World Without Boundaries shtick, with you and your wingmen leading the ragtag fleet to save the war - but it was cool! I totally dug the Tom Clancy technothriller shtick, it was awesome.

Of course, both premises were rather bullshit but they presented it in a tacticool way that made you feel PUMPED UP. Whereas Ace Combat 04 was pure gold because, despite the presence of trademark Ace Combat ridiculous superweapons, it was presented as a real war with minimal amounts of 'pure bullshit'. Hell, Megalith and Stonehenge were entirely superfluous to the whole story, in fact.

Ace Combat 6 was just cringe worthy. I mean, its bullshit quotient didn't really exceed that of 5 or Zero. I mean, there wasn't even the whole ridiculous shtick like the World Without Boundaries or the Ragtag Fleet or the Grunder thing. But... ugh, the presentation was all bad. MATILDAAAAA!!!



Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 06:06am
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Posts: 9478
Location: Sheffield, UK
Edward Yee wrote:
The "Demon Lord" bit was fuckyeah though, don't knock it. Besides, only at the end (when it looks like V2 is nigh) does Eagle Eye cede this; at all other times you are Galm 1 or Cipher.


If by "fuckyeah" you mean completely awful unnatural dialogue, and almost certainly, like the rest of ACZ's horrible dialogue, the product of a massively literal translation from Japanese, leaving some lines, particularly near the end of the game, which make no sense at all in English. (there are some sentence structures also which are transparently Japanese in origin, which you simply wouldn't say in English, even though they make grammatical sense)

Also, the plot had no flow between the war with Belka and the fight against A World Without Boundaries, and the latter had the most arse-reamingly stupid motivation in the history of ever ("we'll blow everyone up, so they can't have wars any more").

Also, it missed out all of the interesting bits that got referenced in AC5, the rise of the Grey Men, Ofnir/Grabacr claim to have been active in the war but aren't heard of, Bartlett/Pops are only referenced in passing in one mission, and there appears to be no reference at all to the involvement of Yuktobania in the war, despite the fact that this war was supposed to be a joint Osean/Yuktobanian effort and pushed the two nations into an alliance, and that was the motivation for the revenge strike turning the two nations against each other in AC5.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 12:29pm
Offline
Sith Devotee

Joined: 2005-07-31 06:48am
Posts: 3395
The best part about the Galm patch? It's apparently a "l where there shouldn't be" (a Japanese inversion of the 'r instead of l' that sometimes happens) moment... just imagine if it were Garm Team. :twisted:

And if you understand Japanese... :D

Quote:
Also, it missed out all of the interesting bits that got referenced in AC5, the rise of the Grey Men, Ofnir/Grabacr claim to have been active in the war but aren't heard of, Bartlett/Pops are only referenced in passing in one mission, and there appears to be no reference at all to the involvement of Yuktobania in the war, despite the fact that this war was supposed to be a joint Osean/Yuktobanian effort and pushed the two nations into an alliance, and that was the motivation for the revenge strike turning the two nations against each other in AC5.
Re: Ofnir/Grabacr... they can't have just been talking out of their asses? I admit that these didn't bother me because thanks to "The Four Horsemen," I'd actually abandoned Ace Combat 5. :P

P.S. Nothing quite like watching someone complete the mission Zero with, of all things, the Prowler.



"Yee's proposal is exactly the sort of thing I would expect some Washington legal eagle to do. In fact, it could even be argued it would be unrealistic to not have a scene in the next book of, say, a Congressman Yee submit the Yee Act for consideration. :D" - bcoogler on this

"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet

Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 03:40pm
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2006-04-22 05:15pm
Posts: 7085
Location: Britain
Why didn't Erusea build artillery guns that based on the same technical principles as the giant guns that comprised the Stonehenge defence platform, only vastly scaled down and mostly intended to hit ground targets? They would be in same ways more pragmatic and flexible than ICBMs, like Metal Gear Rex's railgun was.



'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil

'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid

'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 04:39pm
Offline
Miles Dyson
User avatar

Joined: 2007-04-05 09:44pm
Posts: 7767
Location: Isle of Dogs
Big Orange wrote:
Why didn't Erusea build artillery guns that based on the same technical principles as the giant guns that comprised the Stonehenge defence platform, only vastly scaled down and mostly intended to hit ground targets?


Possibly because key elements of the technology (e.g. whatever magic substance they were using to get around rail erosion problems) were manufactured overseas, and could not be substantially replicated by Erusea. Or perhaps they were working on that, but didn't manage to get it into service before the war. Also based on this analysis they were probably trying to build a railgun-armed super-battleship rather than land-based artillery. :) The technology was eventually successfully scaled down for fighter usage in AC6, though only for one or two prototypes.

Any notion of doing AC5 as well Hawkeye? :)



Image
Image
Windhaven
~ Spirit of Flight ~

x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

( Trailer : zeppelins, death rays, wormholes... )
( Opening cutscene / voice acting test )

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 05:25pm
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2006-04-22 05:15pm
Posts: 7085
Location: Britain
Like the similarily belligerent Empire of Japan or the Third Reich, the Federal Republic of Erusea seemed to be ultimately a medium sized country that had a relatively limited industrial base that could not do almost anything like the ISA, who likely had the blessings of Osean Federation if they were supplied by a secure industrial capacity beyond North Point that could stemroll anything Erusea cobbled out (another contributing factor to why the FREAF never had the same coherency, quality, and striking power as the ISAF at its height, even when they were technically winning at the start of the game, but at North Point the Erusea military command also failed to grab the bull by the horn).

I wonder if CaptHawkeye can do a mini-essay on elite army/naval ground forces?



'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil

'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid

'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: Ace Combat 4's "Strategy" PostPosted: 2009-01-20 06:29pm
Offline
Sith Devotee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-03-04 07:52pm
Posts: 2910
Location: Korea.
Quote:
Any notion of doing AC5 as well Hawkeye?


I'll think about it, but until I get my hands on a working PS2 it won't happen soon. Also, I keep hearing people say otherwise, but I won't be able to know whether or not AC5's plot is bullshit until I play it.

Quote:
I wonder if CaptHawkeye can do a mini-essay on elite army/naval ground forces?


I was thinking about doing a light hearted Tabular Record of Movement for Erusean Iowa Class battleship Tanager, from its construction in AltEarth's "1940s" to its death as the flagship of the Aegir Fleet.



Best care anywhere.

What is Project Zohar?

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 94 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group