MacWorld 2008 Thread of RDF and Awesome

[Xisiqomelir]

January 15, 2008 at 9 AM PST (in <5 mins!)

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Go time!

[Xisiqomelir]

First new product: 500GB/1TB "time capsule" wireless router/network backup solution for $300/$500

[Xisiqomelir]

And away we fucking go!

10:08 am "The World's Thinnest Notebook"
10:08 am As you know, Apple makes the best notebooks in the industry. Today, we are introducing a third kind of notebook. It's called the MacBook Air
10:08 am 4th thing: There's something in the air

[Admiral Valdemar]

The MacBook Air is thin. I'd be worried about cutting myself on that thing.

[Xisiqomelir]

$1800 is owch. Subnotebooks need to go more mainstream.

[Braedley]

I would pay the $1800 for that. Not the $3000 to get the SSD though. I've got a pretty good desktop, but one of these would be great for taking notes at a meeting, traveling, etc.

[Beowulf]

So... why should we be getting this Macbook Air? Sure, it's thin and all, but... what's the point, really? It looks like too many compromises to me.

[Macunaima]

Thin like that, the Macbook Air can also be used like Oddjob used his bowler hat, I guess.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's pure style over substance, a lot of what Apple seems to be. Yes, it looks great, but for that price and the gimmick of a solid state drive as a bonus, it's not exactly the cutting edge of technology and affordability.

[Natorgator]

What do you guys think of the new Apple TV? As someone who hates messing with DVDs (I don't own an HD player yet either) and prefers one click On Demand movie rentals, it looks pretty appealing.

[Melchior]

No updates to the Macbook Pro line?

[Hamel]

I love this. A $20 Apple tax on current iPod Touch owners for five apps, everyone else gets them for free. Mama mia BOHICA

[Drooling Iguana]

I'd bet those Macbook Airs would be really easy to snap in two.

I'm still curious on whether or not it'll blend, though.

[InnocentBystander]

I doubt they'd design something that could be easily broken. I'll admit its small and light, but its not as if the current mac books are terribly large or heavy. I'd have figured the next step for them would be to make a tablet PC.

[Praxis]

So... why should we be getting this Macbook Air? Sure, it's thin and all, but... what's the point, really? It looks like too many compromises to me.

Haha, what compromises? Steve Jobs made a big point on how other thin and light laptops have too many compromises.

The only compromise is COST. That thing is very expensive. I personally wouldn't buy it because I don't have the money. But it's the perfect desktop companion...


It's got a full size keyboard, a full size screen, all the specs of a MacBook in every way except slightly lower clock speed and no disc drive. And it's 0.17 inches thick.

I'd love to have one if I could afford it. My idea setup would
be an iMac and a MacBook Air. Of course, I don't have the money; I'll stick with my regular MacBook.

This machine will have a limited audience. Only the people with money who want a laptop for portability and a desktop for performance will jump for it; those that care about laptop performance will buy the MacBook Pro for the same price.


The $20 price on the iPod Touch update is ridiculous, when you can use homebrew to add those apps already for free.

It's pure style over substance, a lot of what Apple seems to be. Yes, it looks great, but for that price and the gimmick of a solid state drive as a bonus, it's not exactly the cutting edge of technology and affordability.

Did you watch the keynote? They had Intel design them an entirely new processor. This is a very interesting precedent. It's a full Core 2 Duo, yet it's 60% smaller? I've never heard of Intel creating an entirely new processor with a totally different die size on the whim of one manufacturer. It's got a 1.8" iPod-style hard drive (those things are expensive), 2 GB of RAM, and the entire machine is practically all battery.

It's definitely cutting edge technology. It's just ridiculously expensive to boot.

[Grasscutter]

The only compromise is COST. That thing is very expensive. I personally wouldn't buy it because I don't have the money. But it's the perfect desktop companion...

Even this isn't necessarily true when you look at other ultraportables on the market. A friend of mine paid in the neighborhood of $1500 for her Dell ultraportable, and it can't hold a candle to even a regular, mid-range laptop in terms of performance. The Macbook Air's nearest competitor in terms of style and performance, the Sony VAIO TZ, is going for about $2800+ while packing lesser hardware.

Like you said Praxis, this thing's going to have a limited audience, but I think it's going to be very appealing to that audience.

[The Kernel]

The only compromise is COST. That thing is very expensive. I personally wouldn't buy it because I don't have the money. But it's the perfect desktop companion...

Even this isn't necessarily true when you look at other ultraportables on the market. A friend of mine paid in the neighborhood of $1500 for her Dell ultraportable, and it can't hold a candle to even a regular, mid-range laptop in terms of performance. The Macbook Air's nearest competitor in terms of style and performance, the Sony VAIO TZ, is going for about $2800+ while packing lesser hardware.

Like you said Praxis, this thing's going to have a limited audience, but I think it's going to be very appealing to that audience.

Actually, this sucker has some pretty serious compromises. First off, there is no 3G option, which for me is a SERIOUS deal breaker. What's the point of a laptop that I can take anywhere if I need a hotspot in order to get on the internet? Pretty much every other ultraportable on the market has a 3G broadband option; I don't know what Apple has against 3G but they need to get with the program stat.

Also, one of the biggest advantages of most ultraportables like the Sony models is that you can attach a huge battery to them if necessary (or trade off a couple of smaller batteries) and run them forever. Since the Macbook Air is apparently using a lithium polymer, this won't be possible.

Cost wise, this guy really isn't too bad. Ultraportables tend to be pricey so I don't see anything wrong with Apple charging $1800 for it (leaving aside the ridiculous SSD option), although charging $300 for a 200 Mhz CPU upgrade seems like severe gouging.

[The Kernel]

Did you watch the keynote? They had Intel design them an entirely new processor. This is a very interesting precedent. It's a full Core 2 Duo, yet it's 60% smaller? I've never heard of Intel creating an entirely new processor with a totally different die size on the whim of one manufacturer. It's got a 1.8" iPod-style hard drive (those things are expensive), 2 GB of RAM, and the entire machine is practically all battery.

It's definitely cutting edge technology. It's just ridiculously expensive to boot.

Praxis, Intel did NOT design them a new processor, it's a standard LV Core 2 on a reduced sized PACKAGE. The package is really no big deal at all.

Hell, this isn't even a new 45nm chip, which surprised the hell out of me. You'd think that Apple would have wanted the smallest and coolest chip they could find.

[Beowulf]

So... why should we be getting this Macbook Air? Sure, it's thin and all, but... what's the point, really? It looks like too many compromises to me.

Haha, what compromises? Steve Jobs made a big point on how other thin and light laptops have too many compromises.

The only compromise is COST. That thing is very expensive. I personally wouldn't buy it because I don't have the money. But it's the perfect desktop companion...


It's got a full size keyboard, a full size screen, all the specs of a MacBook in every way except slightly lower clock speed and no disc drive. And it's 0.17 inches thick.

I'd love to have one if I could afford it. My idea setup would
be an iMac and a MacBook Air. Of course, I don't have the money; I'll stick with my regular MacBook.

This machine will have a limited audience. Only the people with money who want a laptop for portability and a desktop for performance will jump for it; those that care about laptop performance will buy the MacBook Pro for the same price.
*snip*

It's pure style over substance, a lot of what Apple seems to be. Yes, it looks great, but for that price and the gimmick of a solid state drive as a bonus, it's not exactly the cutting edge of technology and affordability.

Did you watch the keynote? They had Intel design them an entirely new processor. This is a very interesting precedent. It's a full Core 2 Duo, yet it's 60% smaller? I've never heard of Intel creating an entirely new processor with a totally different die size on the whim of one manufacturer. It's got a 1.8" iPod-style hard drive (those things are expensive), 2 GB of RAM, and the entire machine is practically all battery.

It's definitely cutting edge technology. It's just ridiculously expensive to boot.

Compromises:

1. Need to send to service center to replace battery.
2. Performance for cost.
3. Hard drive performance (1.8" drives suck ass)
4. Ability to use peripherals. (1 USB port?)
5. For that matter, the ability to do any hardwiring, really. (why? performance)
6. Upgradability. You can replace the HDD, and that's it.

That's the irony of the thing. In order to get it as thin as it is, they did the very thing Jobs made a big point of. All of it, and for what? To make the damn thing as thin as possible. Really, what's the point of having it so thin? The thickness isn't the determining factor in how portable it is. The other dimensions as much, or more so. Those dimensions determine what size bag you need for it. And it's not .16" thick, it's .76" thick.


And Intel didn't create an entirely new processor with totally different die size. Intel created a new package design. The die is exactly the same as any other of that same line. (I'm not sure what core design it is, because the cache amount isn't specified). 1.8" HDDs aren't expensive. I'd be surprised if the HDD cost Apple more than $80. 2 GB of RAM isn't a big deal either. For your average ultraportable, if it doesn't come with that amount already, it's not too tough or expensive to get it upgraded to that amount. Even with most of the machine being battery, it's still less than 60WHr, or roughly a 6 cell laptop battery.

It's the G4 cube, all over again.

[The Kernel]

And Intel didn't create an entirely new processor with totally different die size. Intel created a new package design. The die is exactly the same as any other of that same line. (I'm not sure what core design it is, because the cache amount isn't specified).

It's an LV Merom with 4MB of cache at 65nm. Shame that they couldn't snag a 45nm chip, the power consumption would have improved considerably.

[Praxis]

I'd actually like to bring up the AppleTV updates for a second. The AppleTV has always felt like it wasn't sure what it was supposed to do. The device only hooks up to HDTVs, yet iTunes only delivers SD content?

The ability to buy directly within the AppleTV interface, rentals (making this a huge Netflix competitor), and HD content actually make the device useful, and bring it up from curiosity gadget to actually useful in my mind. I normally just hook my iPod up to my SDTV. Maybe when I get a HDTV I might get an AppleTV...but I still doubt I'd spend $220 on a glorified media streamer w/hard drive. Maybe I'll get one used, refurbished, or when the price comes down further.

I am loving the new iTunes updates though.

Like you said Praxis, this thing's going to have a limited audience, but I think it's going to be very appealing to that audience.

I know a lot of doctors and business people that would eat these kinds of things up. They've got decent desktops at home, but the business people are constantly running around giving presentations and want something small, and the doctors are constantly running to patients and taking notes and want something small. They're constantly making us adjust our laptop standards just so they can have small laptops because they throw a fit (they'd rather have a ToughBook with a 10" screen than the Lenovo T60's and T61's we give everyone else).

I can see a lot of niche people this would sell for- I half suspect Steve Jobs had the machine made just because he wanted one (as it would seem to fit someone like him perfectly).

Looks to me like the kind of people who will buy this will likely already have a powerful desktop (iMac or Mac Pro) at home and want mobility, and also have a lot of money. A limited niche for sure, but it'll sell- I doubt it'll get anywhere near MacBook or MacBook Pro sales though.

[Xisiqomelir]

Video is up on Apple.com.

[Beowulf]

It seems the the processor form factor isn't even really a new thing. Intel's been planning Penryns in that size package since Fall IDF. The only new thing is that they convinced Intel to make a Merom in that size package.

[Uraniun235]

It's got a full size keyboard, a full size screen, all the specs of a MacBook in every way except slightly lower clock speed and no disc drive. And it's 0.17 inches thick.

Ah ah ah!


0.17 inches thin.

[Xisiqomelir]

It's got a full size keyboard, a full size screen, all the specs of a MacBook in every way except slightly lower clock speed and no disc drive. And it's 0.17 inches thick.

Ah ah ah!


0.17 inches thin.

"Inches thin" is like "times less".