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Tritio wrote:Thanks for the replies. I'll reconsider the PSU if a Coolmaster is decent enough.
Is it a good idea to downgrade the RAM? The Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9 is priced at $185 (compared to $249 for the 1866 CL9).
Any recommendations for the Motherboard?

I got the price lists in Sim Lim Square (the most well known electronics place in Singapore) from the following website:
http://pricewatch.vr-zone.com/previewpricelist.php
Sample of price list I used (400KB .pdf):
http://pricewatch.vr-zone.com/cms/price ... %20aug.pdf

PS: @ Mr Bean, ooh, you lived in Singapore? How long and when?

You're unlikely to notice a difference between 1600 and 1866, to be honest. Save yourself the nearly sixty bucks and go with the 1600. By the time the speed is going to have any impact whatsoever the prices will have dropped considerably.

Tritio wrote:Thanks for the replies. I'll reconsider the PSU if a Coolmaster is decent enough.

Always, always buy a good PSU. Don't get some ridiculous kilowatt unit, but a cheap unit will make you angry in the future. Seasonic and Corsair are good ones.

Is it a good idea to downgrade the RAM? The Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600 CL9 is priced at $185 (compared to $249 for the 1866 CL9).

Read this.

Any recommendations for the Motherboard?

Asus is fine.

I'm planning to upgrade my computer, start to finish - the build I'm currently looking at is too expensive for my tastes by around 100-300$, and I have no idea whether any of the cooling accessories are worth anything.
Primary purposes: Gaming, photography, data storage (photos, music).

מעבדי אינטל Core i7 2600K 3.4Ghz, s1155, 8MB, GPU Core, Tray
CPU Fan: מאווררים וגופי קירור מאוררים למעבדים - Scythe Yasya CPU Cooler
Mobo: GIGABYTE Z68MA-D2H-B3 s1155 Core i3/i5/i7, Intel Z68, DDR3 1333, 3xPCI-E, DVI, HDMI
זכרונות DDR3 1600Mhz 3x4GB G.Skill RipJaw Edition Triple Channel CL9-9-9-24
כונני SSD Corsair Corsair Force Series 3 60GB SSD Sata III MLC 2.5'' Retail
דיסקים קשיחים Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB IntelliPower, 64MB, SATA III WD30EZRX
כרטיסי מסך ASUS - AMD HD 6950 DCII 1GB GDDR5 DX11 2xDVI 4xDP PCI-E
צורבי DVD LG DVD±RW GH22LP20 x22 Black LightScribe IDE (Oem)
Case: מארזים Thermaltake V9 BlacX Edition Midi Tower Black Gaming Case (No PSU)
PSU: ספקי כוח SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Active PFC 12cm Fan S12II-620 (Retail)
עכברים Microsoft BlueTrack Comfort Mouse 3000 USB Black (Retail)

מחיר 7530 ₪ = 2,000 dollars (too much).

I was thinking of chipping at the price of the GPU or SSD or Case or PSU. Not sure. My minds not where it should be,
thanks!

That CPU doesn't do triple channel RAM; do two or four DIMMs, not three. It might not be worth going for 1600MHz RAM, either, unless you intend to substantially overclock (and the 2600K is multiplier unlocked, anyways - and natively will overclock itself if needed).

The SSD will be the fastest speed boost you can get for your computer, though I prefer to get Intel SSDs.

The PSU is a fine one; I'd keep it.

Go for a SATA optical drive.

You can probably get a cheaper case.

Have you thought about importing? Those prices are ridiculous. I looked up a similarly spec'd system on Newegg for $1000 USD before rebates:

Thermaltake V9 BlacX Edition with Docking Station (NewEgg Exclusive) SECC / Mesh ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

$25.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$74.99


Western Digital Caviar Green WD30EZRX 3TB SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

$123.99


XFX HD-695X-ZNFC Radeon HD 6950 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

$30.00 Mail-in Rebate

$239.99


SeaSonic S12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

$69.99


G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

$51.99


GIGABYTE GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

$114.99



OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-60G 2.5" 60GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$25.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$94.99


Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K

$219.99


Discount From Promo Code -$10.00

Subtotal: $980.92

Dominus Atheos wrote:Have you thought about importing? Those prices are ridiculous. I looked up a similarly spec'd system on Newegg for $1000 USD before rebates:

Thermaltake V9 BlacX Edition with Docking Station (NewEgg Exclusive) SECC / Mesh ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

$25.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$74.99


Western Digital Caviar Green WD30EZRX 3TB SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

$123.99


XFX HD-695X-ZNFC Radeon HD 6950 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity

$30.00 Mail-in Rebate

$239.99


SeaSonic S12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

$69.99


G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

$51.99


GIGABYTE GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

$114.99



OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-60G 2.5" 60GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$25.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$94.99


Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K

$219.99


Discount From Promo Code -$10.00

Subtotal: $980.92

Israel has nasty VAT and import taxes. (My current rig was assembled back when I worked in a computer company and could use more favourable taxation rates than those available when buying from a store).
Annoying, I kn ow.

What would you reccommend PSU (wattage), case and cooling wise?

That, and Newegg only ships inside the USA and Porto Rica

The Grim Squeaker wrote:That, and Newegg only ships inside the USA and Porto Rica

I'm sorry, by importing I meant buying from newegg and then using a service like Bongo to forward the packages to you in Israel.

The Grim Squeaker wrote:What would you reccommend PSU (wattage), case and cooling wise?

The PSU and case are fine. You could probably get a cheaper case like phongn suggested, but I wouldn't sweat it too much. Unless you are overclocking, stock cooling is fine in almost all cases, so you don't need to get a dedicated CPU cooler.

Also, if you aren't overclocking you can get the straight i7-2600 and save a bit of money.

Well, unless he's doing really heavy video editing or somesuch, he can save even more money and get an i5-2500 or 2500k, really.

starslayer wrote:Well, unless he's doing really heavy video editing or somesuch, he can save even more money and get an i5-2500 or 2500k, really.

Heavy gaming, more like.

The Grim Squeaker wrote:

starslayer wrote:Well, unless he's doing really heavy video editing or somesuch, he can save even more money and get an i5-2500 or 2500k, really.

Heavy gaming, more like.

Does not require a high end CPU unless you're sporting 30inch monitors out of your ass and a non GPU limited game.

Photo editing takes advantage of SMT, so I'd suggest the 2600 if he can swing it.

I´m getting a new computer, mainly for 3D stuff. The following rig seems reasonable. What do you think:

CPU: Core™ i7-2600K
Mainboard: Asus P8Z68-V PRO
GPU: NVidia Quadro 2000
RAM: 16GB Corsair DDR3-1333 1.5 Volt
PSU: Cooler Master GX-650W
Fan: EKL Alpenföhn "Bocken"
Case: Antec Three-Hundered
HDD: 1TB Seagate ST1000NM0011
Some Asus DVD Burner
Windows Home Premium

It costs 1350€

First off if you are into 3d stuff you need to shell out the extra 20$ (Extra 12€) to pick up Windows 7 Professional because Professional has all sorts of useful bits that are missing from Home Premium and the fact that Home Premium tops out at 16 gigs of ram support, the way ram is going you could easily two years from now upgrade to 32 gigs for half the price you pay for 16 gigs today but with Home Premium that also means upgrading your OS. Besides Professional just plays nicer with more software via it's emulation modes. Also useful Professional backs up much easier and much quicker than Home Pro, something also useful in any large scale project work.

Can you afford to go for an Asus P8B WS, Xeon E3-1270 (or some other 12x0 variant) and ECC RAM? You're doing 3D work, the extra reliability might be useful.

Oh, thanks Mr. Bean for the Windows advice. I didn´t know about the 16Gig limit and buying that would have been really foolish.

@PHong: Thanks for the advice. The Mainboard and the CPU wouldn´t be that problematic, only 80€ more but the ram would also be 100 - 120€ more expensive.
Is one of or two components usefull without the other other would i have to buy all three to have improved reliability? For example would it be useful to only upgrade the mainboard and CPU but not the RAM?

Do you really need the quadro? Most programs are d3d these days anyway, so you might be better off getting a faster gaming gpu that can also do cuda/opencl for when gpu-accelerated rendering becomes common.

To be honest I´m not sure. I read a whole bunch of stuff online about the quadros and it appears that 50% of users and benchmarks think that quadros are awesome while 50% think quadros are like feeding money to the fire.

I´ve currently got a job at a company where I work with a quadro 2000 and I´m quite happy with it. Esspecially in scenes with many polygons the quadro seems to shine. On the the other hand I have no direct comparison with a current geforce card so it´s really hard to tell. It´s a risk I´ve decided to take.

I thought about getting a fast gamer card in a while and do some benchmark tests myself. I´ve still got some money to waste to reach my taxt deductible limit so I can afoard to get a fast gamer card as a secondary card. But I don´t have the time at the moment to look into how all of this "multiple graphic cards at same time" works at the moment and if the rig I´m looking at even supports this.

As far as I know none of the major 3d packages derive any benefit from multi-GPU. Some renderers might for GP-GPU rendering, but I'm not sure about that. Vray and Finalrender aren't adding GPU support until their next major releases.

I'm in the opposite position to you; I've never used a workstation card but the gaming cards I've been running seem to work well enough in d3d. I think viewport image quality might be better?

salm wrote:@PHong: Thanks for the advice. The Mainboard and the CPU wouldn´t be that problematic, only 80€ more but the ram would also be 100 - 120€ more expensive.

Is one of or two components usefull without the other other would i have to buy all three to have improved reliability? For example would it be useful to only upgrade the mainboard and CPU but not the RAM?

The main idea is to get ECC RAM - and that requires a Xeon CPU and a motherboard that supports it :/

@phong: What exactly would more reliability mean? Less program shut downs or faster rendering or something different?

fractalsponge1 wrote:As far as I know none of the major 3d packages derive any benefit from multi-GPU. Some renderers might for GP-GPU rendering, but I'm not sure about that. Vray and Finalrender aren't adding GPU support until their next major releases.

I'm in the opposite position to you; I've never used a workstation card but the gaming cards I've been running seem to work well enough in d3d. I think viewport image quality might be better?

Yes, you´re right. I just did some research and it looks like the only advantage of multi-GPU is for Vray RT. That´s a nice to have thing but far from required. Hm... we´ll see, if I don´t find anything more useful to buy before my tax deductible budget runs out I´ll get the gamer card. But i guess I´ll just invest in software instead.

I´ll get the Quadro and test it. In Germany you can return stuff you bought for 14 days without a reason. So if I´m not happy with the Quadro I´ll just return it and get a Geforce 580 or something like that instead.

My understanding of most of the GPU accelerated renderers is that they cannot access system memory and GPU memory at once, so your scene needs to fit into the card's frame buffer if you plan on using GPU acceleration. I don't know if Vray RT can access memory across a multi-card setup.

Do share if you think the quadro is worth it. Also note if you get a gaming card the mid-low range cards might not support double precision FP GPU compute, which might or might not matter in renderers in the future.

---

I went from 6x2GB ddr3 to 6x4GB ecc ddr3 and haven't noticed much of a difference in crashes. I think ecc is actually supposed to be slightly slower at any given memory clock speed due to the error checking, but (also afaik) error checking doesn't become really important except when there is a large amount of installed memory. It's possible if I were running 24GB of non-ecc ddr3 I'd be seeing more memory corruption leading to crashes.

salm wrote:@phong: What exactly would more reliability mean? Less program shut downs or faster rendering or something different?

You may experience fewer crashes, your rendering may be more accurate, etc. If you do decide to go with higher reliability, make sure you get ECC unbuffered/unregistered RAM. Registered/buffered RAM will not work (and is somewhat more common).