World of Warships

[Thanas]

Yeah she is - besides my Yammy - the only BB I have no qualms to shove into tight spots. Make sure to run Damage Control System 2 upgrade on her as well, her rudder shift is so good that you do not need the upgrade there. With the firefighting flag you can get fire durations down to ~40 seconds if you let them burn. Also use premium repair and premium damage control, you easily make that money back.

Coupled with superintendent and Jack of all Trades and you got a nearly unstoppable HP monster who just laughs at smaller opponents. Until an Amagi, Iowa, Yamato or Montana shows up you can brawl for ages.

She also got great HE, so if you have to long-range duel and face an angled North Carolina, just shoot HE at him. You can easily get two fires per salvo, so fire one, he uses repair, fire second salvo, then just run. When next you meet him he has like half XP, so repeat.

[Thanas]

Anyway, on to the Cruisers debate.

I have now played 23 battles in the Pepsicola. Got a 61% winrate (average player has 41%), 38k average damage (average tracked is 28k) and average around 1600 base XP in her (average is 1000). Ship kills is 0.87 per battle (average 0.61%). She is not a bad ship at any means. I can handle her just fine.

BUT - and this is where Jub gets to say "told you so" - cruisers in general, unless they are IJN cruisers - at Tier VII seem to suffer a bit. The Yorck has about the same average stats as the Pensacola overall (http://warships.today/vehicle/4282300400/eu/Pensacola). I guess it has a lot to do with there being fewer cruisers around and also the horrible turret traverse. This IMO is the worst thing - now I find it very hard to even track DDs, meaning the hard counter for DDs is no longer that effective. I am still making plenty of an impact but less than I did before and certainly less than I do in a Königsberg.

Shell arc and turret traverse are what helds them back. Restore those two things and they would be awesome ships. Her armor is decent if you know how to angle. Her fully upgraded form is great. And she throws HE even better than the Cleveland. All of this should lead to a great ship, but instead it simply leads to the second-best Tier VII ship I have played (after the Nagato, also played Colorado).

I have had great success in treating her like a huge Clemson, meaning getting into knife fights with Japanese cruisers. At close ranges (under 10km) the AP just punches through the IJN ships like a hot knife through butter. And the secondaries are surprisingly decent. Of course, this is not a playstyle for everybody - you constantly need to evade for torps, know when to hold your repair etc. And I suspect where I to try the same in a IJN cruiser I would have more success. So maybe I try the IJN line next or tough it out until the Des Moines.

[Borgholio]

Coupled with superintendent and Jack of all Trades and you got a nearly unstoppable HP monster who just laughs at smaller opponents. Until an Amagi, Iowa, Yamato or Montana shows up you can brawl for ages.

Yeah I've engaged Tirpitzes in my New Mexico before. They're beasts. Usually takes me and another similar-tier BB to take one down.

[Thanas]

So for Christmas I got that Atago.

My god she is a monster. I would almost say p2w in her case. She just sails so very smoothly, has awesome camo (11 kilometers with concealment expert iirc) and her torpedo arcs are fantastic. Her guns are deadly accurate too and she can bounce BB shells - in a cruiser. I had 2 matches in her and made 1.3 million credits.

If I had not played the Pensacola I would clam that cruisers at Tier VIII are as OP as in lower levels just based on her performance alone.

[Nephtys]

Pensacola's got honestly, pretty nice firepower and great agility when you max her out. The problem still lies in the fact that you're occupying a Tier 7 slot that could have been a Nagato. I do quite well in mine too, getting around a 56-ish percent Win Rate, 38k avg damage and greater than 1 KDR.

The armor is suffiicent against cruiser fire, a forward angle zig-zag still lets you bring 4 turrets to target when you need to, while maintaining dodging and armor. The problem is that hits from 15/16 inchers (Which you will see) will crash through the superstructure even on a head-on or angled impact, and end up straight in the barbettes or machinery.

I've never sustained more than 2 volleys in a Pensacola from battleship fire, which you WILL face. Even with excellent dodging, you WILL run out of luck and lose more than half your HP in a single hit. That's the issue. I see it enough being both receiving and delivering.

---

I really like the game. It's fun, and slower than most 'arena vehicle games' which makes a lot of forethought in positioning matter more (and without stealth one-shot ambush stuff like WoT or Warthunders mechanics). You always have at least an option to retreat and regroup. But one issue is the problem of historicity: Battleships skyrocket in capability from tiers 5 through 10. Cruisers... don't.

Battleship ranges go up by several KM a tier, while cruiser ranges remain less than or equal to tier 5 or tier 6 cruisers for the entire game. Battleship HP skyrockets as displacement nearly doubles for later ones, along with armor and better protected design. Cruisers again, don't. Battleship cannons become monsters with rapid firing 16s or 18s, while cruisers are using the same 8 inch guns from tier 5 or tier 7, in often, similar numbers... and lose out on anti-destroyer power too, due to reduced RoF and traverse time.

At least Destroyers have an extremely powerful 'everything killer' in torpedos, and the extreme utility of massive concealment and agility. That's good, they're in a good place. Cruisers need a gimmick to make them worthwhile. Perhaps some sort of ROF boost consumable or something to allow them to crap out some nasty close range hit-and-run DPS or something, but as it is, I'd prefer a BB in any slot from tier 7 onwards. Perhaps even tier 6 onwards.

[Thanas]

I think IJN cruiser are the way to go as they don't really suffer from the same problems as the pensacola.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Ok. Nagato is supposed to be great. But I'm missing shots I'd easily nail in Fuso, taking more damage than I would in Fuso, and just overall not having a fun time.

Is it just the typical stock problems? Is upgraded Nagato that much better than her stock configuration?

[Jub]

Ok. Nagato is supposed to be great. But I'm missing shots I'd easily nail in Fuso, taking more damage than I would in Fuso, and just overall not having a fun time.

Is it just the typical stock problems? Is upgraded Nagato that much better than her stock configuration?

I had the same problem the first day I played the North Carolina after upgrading from the Colorado. My shots were just a little off from what I was used to so I was missing most of them. I was also, and honestly still am, getting used to the rudder shift time on the stock hull. I'm still not entirely used to her, but I'm hitting most of my shots now and I'm learning how she moves and takes hits.

[Thanas]

Ok. Nagato is supposed to be great. But I'm missing shots I'd easily nail in Fuso, taking more damage than I would in Fuso, and just overall not having a fun time.

Is it just the typical stock problems? Is upgraded Nagato that much better than her stock configuration?

It is a combination of several things:
- you have fewer guns so less chance of positive rng
- you have a different shell velocity (16" vs 14") so you need to aim differently - very slightly though
- you are meeting more capable players who know how to wiggle the ships a bit

Nagato is much better upgraded than stock too. Also get the secondary upgrade if you want to play her as a brawler. She truly is the queen of breaking enemy pushes.

[Venator]

While trying to get my gaming desktop into some form of functionality, I ran a game on my work laptop using the trackpad.



Not sure I'm ever playing using anything else, now xD.

[Borgholio]

If you want easy credits but also a 50-50 chance of success then play the IJN line. They are way better at damaging capital ships.

So I got into Japanese DDs today and holy crap...I think I'm in love. I quickly got the hang of waiting until enemy BBs were focused on my teammates, darting in close, unleashing a swarm of torpedoes, then popping smoke and running like hell. I get a half dozen torpedo hits and 2 - 3 kills per game easy. I went from the Tier 2 to Tier 4 DD in just a couple hours.

Thing is, the whole thing feels...asshole-ish somehow. Waiting until their back is turned then sneaking up and stabbing them. But hey, I can't argue with the results.

On another note, I had one of the most epic cruiser games today. I was in my Konigsberg trying to escort a couple of our BBs through a chokepoint. Enemy carrier dropped some torps, I turned into them and popped one before it armed, letting the BB slip in through the gap I made. Two DDs made a torp run next to each other and I took them both out with a single shot. Fired one three-shell salvo from the front turret...one shell sank the first DD and two more over-penetrated and managed to hit and sink the other. That got a sick little giggle out of me.

[Thanas]

...that strategy won't work that well and not at all in ranked. Seriously, it is bad strategy.

Here is what you really do in a Japanese DD.
1. Figure out your detection rating with camo on. Usually it will be anywhere in the 6-6.5 range.
2. Set camo to resupply. That 300 meter difference will save your life and for the low price of 8k gold.
3. The first minutes of your match are going to be positioning. Anticipate where the enemy is moving into.
4. Maneuver ahead of your target
5. When you are 7k away, fire your torps. One spread slightly left of indicator, one spread center, one spread slightly right. With BBs one spread half left half center, one center, one half center one half right.
6. Turn away hard immediately and run.

7. Watch them sail into your stealth torps.

8. By now you should have completed your turn and reloaded. Repeat steps 1-7.


This is how you get results like this:


Yep, 130k damage in a T5 match. With a T5 DD.

But wait. It gets even better.



Yep. 143k damage. Mostly against opponents a tier higher.

And if you know how to ambush people properly on maps, you can do the same with a US DD as well.



Muahahaha. 18 torp hits, 6 kills, double strike, confederate, high caliber, first blood and 5x devestating strike. Too bad they did not have the Kraken achievement back then.

But look at that last game - Isokaze on enemy team with 5 kills. He was so good I never intercepted him and could not kill him as he stealth torped half my team. This was an awesome match for us two DDs.


This is also the part where I brag that my BB play has changed from "very good" to excellent. Nice. I am finally getting over my bad stats from the Lolorado and Shitzumo.

Mostly plays battleships and is excellent in them
Deals a very large amount of damage
Key vehicle - Clemson

[Borgholio]

1. Figure out your detection rating with camo on. Usually it will be anywhere in the 6-6.5 range.
2. Set camo to resupply. That 300 meter difference will save your life and for the low price of 8k gold.
3. The first minutes of your match are going to be positioning. Anticipate where the enemy is moving into.
4. Maneuver ahead of your target
5. When you are 7k away, fire your torps. One spread slightly left of indicator, one spread center, one spread slightly right. With BBs one spread half left half center, one center, one half center one half right.
6. Turn away hard immediately and run.

7. Watch them sail into your stealth torps.

8. By now you should have completed your turn and reloaded. Repeat steps 1-7.

I will try that today! Question - what skills do you train on your DD commanders?

[Thanas]

Situation awareness
torpedo reload (2nd tier skill)
superintendent
Last Stand (IJN) or demo expert (US)
Concealment Expert

additional skills after those essential ones:
1. Basic firing training (especially for US)
2. Expert marksmen (for IJN)
Whatever else I feel like it.

[Nephtys]

Teams are... something indeed. Perhaps my luck is swingy, ranging from good (9 wins out of 10 games with 5$ Tirpitz!) to atrocious (1 out of 11 wins with New York, averaging 60k damage!).

Just finished a 103k damage game where a soviet DD ran out from where she was safe, with 80 percent of the enemy cap... to try and sling 4km torps at targets 8km away, revealed herself and died. Another loss for my 9% winrate NY.

(rage)

[Jub]

This battle wasn't overly special in terms of experience or damage, but I did piss a certain Fuso off a ton. See if you can spot the reason.

[Venator]

Teams are... something indeed. Perhaps my luck is swingy, ranging from good (9 wins out of 10 games with 5$ Tirpitz!) to atrocious (1 out of 11 wins with New York, averaging 60k damage!).

Just finished a 103k damage game where a soviet DD ran out from where she was safe, with 80 percent of the enemy cap... to try and sling 4km torps at targets 8km away, revealed herself and died. Another loss for my 9% winrate NY.

Played my Wyoming earlier and got sterling performance till being torpedoed. At the end of the game, there was one enemy left to our two - another Wyoming and a Wakatake on about 25% health.

The Waka constantly kept the enemy spotted, but snapped off a few shots and/or fired torpedoes outside maximum range, then fled in fear of retaliation. As the clock ticked down, finally the Wyoming trundled into range and finished off the enemy.


The surviving enemy was a Langley.

---

Jub - the only time I've ever hit a single enemy that many times was an bot SoCal in the process of claiming my Emden. I'd love to be a fly on the wall beside that poor bastard.

[Imperial528]

They were afraid of a Langley? A Langley?!

The secondaries on the Langley are so inaccurate, it couldn't damage itself if the gun exploded!

[Thanas]

What ship was that, Jub? DD?

[Jub]

What ship was that, Jub? DD?

No, that was my Atlanta. It was near the end of the match and he was among the last enemy ships still around, so I just pulled up alongside him and started hosing him with HE. Much of my damage dealt that game was done 250 damage at a time.

[Nephtys]

Reactions to the Fuso:

Brilliant ship. Possibly everything I loved about Kongo (another well beloved ship), but... MORE! You lose 5 knots, but gain (effectively) the firepower of an additional 6 guns! Both by having 4 more guns, but also them having a 5 second faster reload cycle.

Add in stronger secondaries, more range, substantially more armor...

What a beast. It craps on all of the lower tier trash it sees, and has a great shot against the Colorado as well.

Destroyers still eat you alive, but at least the extra gunpower gives more of a chance for a few lucky hits before a run.

[Venator]

I gave Thanas' advice for Japanese destroyers a whirl. It works really well.



I've been running 2 kills/game consistently, which doesn't sound huge but for the toaster I play on, it's a stark improvement over my average DD performance in the past. Getting 5 citadel penetrations in the Gremyaschy is still a highlight, though.

[Thanas]

I neglected to mention:

Against BBs only fire tight spreads
Against cruisers you can fire both tight and wide spreads, but I prefer tight spreads in lower and wide spreads in higher tier matches
Against DDs it really pays off to fire two tight and one wide spread.

[Jub]

My stats with the Murmansk are well below what I should be doing in it, most of my ships are like this. I think it's mainly because I tend to play a lot when I'm unfocused, but when I pay attention and play with a little intention this can happen:







Of course this game had to be a loss, but I still made out well.

[Jub]

I've finally managed to have a good game in my North Carolina. I'm still not entirely sure I've gotten her down yet, but that second hull has helped a ton.