StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Stark wrote:Yeah, apparently getting something always costs you something, and you aren't selling your huge boring list of shit to sidestep the funding process. I'm particularly interested to see of the starting locations can key into decisions - if you start in America and maintenance is cheap you might not value money so much, but still need staff and other resources etc. I've heard about countries requesting you make them guns or whatever for money, but this ties up your engineers for the duration.

North America gets a bonus for aircraft and aircraft parts. Europe on building research labs. Asia on officer training and foundry. Africa on monthly incomes and South America on interrogations and autopsies.

I love the South America bonus for some reason. It's hilarious and brings to mind huge tatooed Mexicans electrocuting Sectoid genitals.

Stark wrote:The joke is dealing with obsessive fans who are both extremely vocal and extremely stupid - both servicing their delusions of relevance and insight with wrong answers and lies while simply force-feeding them the correct answers is hilarious as all hell.

Even if it doesn't work as a game, flat-out lying to nerds while creating a game on sound principles that they'd hate if you talked about them is a good precedent.

The most beautiful thing is, they can whine all they want, but the game is already made. They can bitch about the UI, the deployment, the economy, the lack of TU's and ammo all they goddamn please and it's just noise.

And I sincerely hope the game sells in TONS. Because in my book, Firaxis guys took a hell lot of a chance to make tactical turn based combat FUN, DYNAMIC and TACTICAL with full knowledge they will get dragged through mud by stupid idiots. I hope the entire game is as good as the demo itself was, for the minimum of stuff it showed, because they took a deep plunge into the unknown in the world of modern warfare games.

I was hugely disappointed with the visual options in the base itself. I kept wanting to scroll past the Wall of No More Zooming to get a closer look at things.

Game more important than detail textures? :v

The most unfortunate part about the awful demo is the impression it creates of a stop-start game flow driven by events and 'story' rather than flowing from player action. Lets hope the strategic layer isn't just a bunch of binary choice popups and forced dilemmas.

And seriously if they made this game and then ruined it with a scripted story I'll laugh I'll milk comes out my nose.

I don't doubt the demo was the result of the PR department going "spoil as little of the game as possible."

Except that the crux of decision making in X-Com is at the base of the game. So by limiting the demo you're not really showing people anything more than what they could have seen on youtube. They might as well have not even release a demo.

The most interesting part of the demo is when they make you chose which country to help. But you're not allowed to play after that mission so you don't get to see the relevance of this decision.

It was especially interesting because it was explained as the aliens testing X-COM's capabilities. The answer they get is quite useful to them: Try to do two things at once, and you succeed at at least one of them. I hope late-game X-COM gets to turn the tables on that if the aliens are smart about abusing it.

PeZook wrote:

Stark wrote:Resourcing is all about decisions apparently, and not spreadsheet whoring bullshit like the first game. The horribly stupid 'economy' in the first game is a great example if shit morons what to see again because they don't understand it actually sucked and detracted from the actual playing of the game (as distinct from the endlessly repeated crap people claim to have enjoyed). FIraxis clearly understands that the interesting part was always the strategic layer.

I love how they consciously decided to limit your resources ("You will NEVER have enough to get everything you want" was the quote); Not only does it keep the game somewhat like the part where 90% of these sorts of games are interesting (IE. the start, where you actually have to make tradeoffs because you have very limited resources), but it means it might actually stay interesting and fresh for a second playthrough!

Fanboy morons hate that concept, of course. Unless you can break the economy in the first three weeks, it's not a real X-Com game.

That really doesn't answer my question; like at all (do you still get alien stuff? Do you still get to sell alien stuff? Does selling alien stuff have more meaningful ingame effects like in X-com 3?).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that selling alien bodies for cash in the old game to sidestep the money issue was a good thing. My question is more of "Are there consequences to selling alien stuff, if you can still do it at all?". Like if you sell guns it could end up in the hands of foreign governments... which might up the panic once the government starts using their guns enmasse for their military, which also then end up attacking you with plasma guns once they turn alien sympathizer.

Simply saying that "stuff is always limited!" is kinda vague, especially with regards to alien loot (you automatically don't get as much loot if you're already overflowing with alien stuff due to previous successes?)

White Haven wrote:It was especially interesting because it was explained as the aliens testing X-COM's capabilities. The answer they get is quite useful to them: Try to do two things at once, and you succeed at at least one of them. I hope late-game X-COM gets to turn the tables on that if the aliens are smart about abusing it.

That's the concern. If it's mishandled, the game may deteriorate into an effectively turn-based, binary choice game of min-maxing. 10 days till review - but what if that's meaningless, and you know you have 2 binary choices and one battle (we'll call this a 'turn') and the semi-realtime element or juggling simultaneous demands is weak or nonexistent? That'd probably suck.

The giant bomb quick look video showed multiple incidents happening around the world at any given time.

weemadando wrote:The giant bomb quick look video showed multiple incidents happening around the world at any given time.

Do you use the map to interact with them, or what? You've only got one team, but it's good to know while they're in transit you can still have other stuff to 'do'.

Zinegata wrote:

PeZook wrote:

Stark wrote:Resourcing is all about decisions apparently, and not spreadsheet whoring bullshit like the first game. The horribly stupid 'economy' in the first game is a great example if shit morons what to see again because they don't understand it actually sucked and detracted from the actual playing of the game (as distinct from the endlessly repeated crap people claim to have enjoyed). FIraxis clearly understands that the interesting part was always the strategic layer.

I love how they consciously decided to limit your resources ("You will NEVER have enough to get everything you want" was the quote); Not only does it keep the game somewhat like the part where 90% of these sorts of games are interesting (IE. the start, where you actually have to make tradeoffs because you have very limited resources), but it means it might actually stay interesting and fresh for a second playthrough!

Fanboy morons hate that concept, of course. Unless you can break the economy in the first three weeks, it's not a real X-Com game.

That really doesn't answer my question; like at all (do you still get alien stuff? Do you still get to sell alien stuff? Does selling alien stuff have more meaningful ingame effects like in X-com 3?).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that selling alien bodies for cash in the old game to sidestep the money issue was a good thing. My question is more of "Are there consequences to selling alien stuff, if you can still do it at all?". Like if you sell guns it could end up in the hands of foreign governments... which might up the panic once the government starts using their guns enmasse for their military, which also then end up attacking you with plasma guns once they turn alien sympathizer.

Simply saying that "stuff is always limited!" is kinda vague, especially with regards to alien loot (you automatically don't get as much loot if you're already overflowing with alien stuff due to previous successes?)

There's a "grey market" to sell your loot. Thing is loot is more useful in this than the original. Even dead bodies can be a resource used for things like research.

Lord Woodlouse wrote:There's a "grey market" to sell your loot. Thing is loot is more useful in this than the original. Even dead bodies can be a resource used for things like research.

Cool .

Nothing is more frustrating than losing a whole squad of veterans. I almost threw my controller across the room.

Ironman mode will put white hairs on my head.

CaptHawkeye wrote:Nothing is more frustrating than losing a whole squad of veterans. I almost threw my controller across the room.

Ironman mode will put white hairs on my head.

Yeah Ironman will offer whole new challenges. I think the key to that one will probably be not to send all your top guys out on every mission, be sure to send in some fresh recruits to walk point

I've already instituted the practice of one officer, three veterans, and two rookies for my missions. Rookies take point.

Gotta say, Classic is pretty lethal. Long range firefights just don't work in your favor, as those Aliens seem to always be able to take hard cover.

Something of a catch-22. Rookies are never going to win a long-range firefight.

So far, one thing I realized: You can't hire scientists, but you CAN 'hire' Engineers by building Workshops? Also, Satelite coverage GRANTS additional money? Damn. I mismanaged my first two months by not expanding my satcom capabilities.

Also, small and medium UFOs now are a match for poor Interceptors with Avalanche missiles. I nearly lost an Interceptor vs a Medium, and that's with the combat augmentations.

Assaults seem very good. The rocket launcher itself is an incredible asset to dig out hardened targets. Suppression Fire is exceptionally useful.
Supports are good. Smoke is life. Rifle Suppression is huge as well, to back up that support.
Snipers, not a fan of. Move-or-Shoot sucks in a game like this, and they aren't THAT accurate to begin with. Their replacement for shitty old UFO:EU's 'Flares' though, are awesome.
Assaults I like. At least early game on classic, since a rifle burst won't put most aliens down, but a crit shotgun blast will.

Nephtys wrote:So far, one thing I realized: You can't hire scientists, but you CAN 'hire' Engineers by building Workshops? Also, Satelite coverage GRANTS additional money? Damn. I mismanaged my first two months by not expanding my satcom capabilities.

Satellite coverage also gives you engineers and/or scientists and the region bonus if you cover the whole continent with them.

Assaults seem very good. The rocket launcher itself is an incredible asset to dig out hardened targets. Suppression Fire is exceptionally useful.
Supports are good. Smoke is life. Rifle Suppression is huge as well, to back up that support.
Snipers, not a fan of. Move-or-Shoot sucks in a game like this, and they aren't THAT accurate to begin with. Their replacement for shitty old UFO:EU's 'Flares' though, are awesome.
Assaults I like. At least early game on classic, since a rifle burst won't put most aliens down, but a crit shotgun blast will.

Playing on Normal, my prime squad is two-heavies, two snipers, a support and an assault. Snipers hang back on squad-sight overwatch, heavies methodically advance and my assault is a scout.

I don't like taking losses at all, even amongst the rookies. So as soon as I can build some robots to send in taking the punishment the better.

I'll probably end up treating bots so cruelly they'll plan on having a machine revolution after the aliens are defeated.

You are so far off-base on snipers that you can see the curvature of space-time. First-off, they CAN move and shoot, if you build them that way, or alternately they can become a hilarious engine of extreme-range fear if you give them squad sight instead. If you couple that with late-game flight armour to get an elevated position for line-of-sight purposes? Yeah. Game over. I was...only marginally impressed with heavies; the LMG/cannon damage isn't good enough to make up for the fact that, well, it's not a 'I see you from Venezuela' sniper or a 'Hey there, I just ran around you six times and then blew your kneecaps off' assault or a 'You really don't want to try moving...' support. Not useless, just a touch underwhelming.

I highly approve of the apparent high death rate of rookies in X-com .

Snipers are also essential when fighting against Crysalids and Mutons. The insane amount of damage they can do with headshot and a laser sniper rifle is great for taking them out and the zombies they spawn. Squad sight is also better than run-and-gun I've found. Heavies are really not that great. You don't want to use explosives because that takes away the corpses and weapon fragments that you need, and they're also slower than the other classes. Assaults are wonderful for their ability to move halfway across the map and then blow some alien's face off. The fact you cannot choose what class your soldiers become is the only real design decision I really hate. Even the six man squads I've found to be enjoyable.

That said anyone found the game to be rather low-casualty? On normal I've only lost 2 soldiers in about 4 months. Clearly I should be playing on Classic, but for my first run through it didn't seem advisable.

Moving with the sniper reduces their accuracy by so much that it's not worth doing. You're better off whipping out your laser/plasma pistol, or doing something else. Squad Sight also isn't that useful to me, given that terrain is usually what blocks me, not distance. Plus, your accuracy is still poor at super ranges.

Assaults are kinda awesome once you give them plasma rifles though. The extra speed is so handy.

Snipers are great. Colonel Flynn 'Zero' Cox is a Canadian death-engine. He's got a 95% hit rate on all but the hardest shots, can one-shot almost anything short of a Berserker, and gets two shots per round to boot!

I love my Heavies, too. The upgraded Suppression is fantastic, and the upgraded rockets (same perk, no less) are a fantastic 'oh shit' shot which is deliciously reminiscent of a Starship Troopers nuke.

Granted, I'm only playing on Normal, so I've only had one KIA and one critical injury so far.