Go go gadget iPad

[Dahak]

But while it might be OK for a smartphone, I fail to see why a computer the size of the iPad needs to be limited in that way. Especially when you have the screen size to do it comfortably.

[Skgoa]

Because Apple wants a controlled environment where no process can possibly do anything worse than crash and doesn't want to spend the effort to do real code analysis and verification. Thats also why apps don't get much access to anything. They realize that the user might want to listen to music or be recieve twitter updates etc. at the same time as whatever else he is doing, so they enabled that, - but other than than they deliberately forbid more than one app running at the same time. Also, apps should be atomic, save their state etc. etc., so "fake multitasking" is actually good enough. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like having to or more apps running in a tiling window manager, but its not a problem for the kind of things I want to do with this device.
And you are forgeting something: this is NOT a "computer" in the sense that it should be able to do everything. This is a consumer electronics product and thus must function as straight forward as possible. You might have the experience to do all kinds of stuff on a computer, but my grandparents don't - they just want to go online or watch a movie or look at their pictures AS EASY AS POSSIBLE. Thats what this device does and thats why its going to be a huge commercial success. If that is not what you want, than this is not meant for you. Get a "real computer" and be prepared to constantly update, live with weird crashes etc. I don't want to insult your oppinion, but would you complain about there not being a shell on a Wii? Or that a pocket calculator doesn't have Bluetooth? The people who want an iPad will buy it and be happy using it and the people who want a "real computer" will buy a different device.

[charlemagne]

Get a "real computer" and be prepared to constantly update, live with weird crashes etc.

Why are there even still prejudices like those? I honestly can't remember the last "weird crash" I had when running either XP from SP2 onwards, Vista or 7. And what does "constantly update" even mean? Windows updates automatically and most normal users don't even notice it, and most applications update on their own, too. Is having to click "update and restart" in iTunes every couple of months such a hassle that you have to be especially prepared for it?

Besides, going online, looking at pictures or playing a movie on a modern OS is not rocket science. If you can touch a browser symbol with your finger you can also learn to click it using the mouse pointer. I find it hilarious how this "only tech-savvy nerds can use a computer" attitude still persists even though Windows got easier to use than ever.

[Questor]

Get a "real computer" and be prepared to constantly update, live with weird crashes etc.

Why are there even still prejudices like those? I honestly can't remember the last "weird crash"

Flash causes a number of them.

I had when running either XP from SP2 onwards, Vista or 7. And what does "constantly update" even mean? Windows updates automatically and most normal users don't even notice it, and most applications update on their own, too. Is having to click "update and restart" in iTunes every couple of months such a hassle that you have to be especially prepared for it?

I'm actually not sure the point on updating either. It is almost entirely transparent.

Besides, going online, looking at pictures or playing a movie on a modern OS is not rocket science. If you can touch a browser symbol with your finger you can also learn to click it using the mouse pointer. I find it hilarious how this "only tech-savvy nerds can use a computer" attitude still persists even though Windows got easier to use than ever.

My argument isn't that "only tech-savvy nerds can use a computer". My argument is that only highly tech-savvy nerds are whining about multi-tasking in the first place. When I watch normal computer users using a computer, I rarely see anything that would require more than "fake-multitasking", which should be even more seamless with more power to work with. The exceptions brought up run the gamut from inane to having a point. On the low end, we have the argument that they need multi-tasking so that they can run a competitor to iTunes - well, that's a high percentage request - and that they need it so that they can work on a spreadsheet while they chat - something I question when you have lost 1/3 of your screen area already to a keyboard. On the high end we have the maps/shopping example that is brought up.

Another thought that I'd like to bring out. I suspect that introduction of massive new features of the iPhone OS would be done with iPhone OS 4. As far as the people using the SDK are saying, currently the iPad is running on what is - for the most part - the same OS as the iPhone has had since the intro of the 3GS. I'll be more curious to see what happens as the iPad OS differentiates itself from the iPhone OS. Something that I expect to be a gradual process.

EDIT: What a lot of it seems to come down to is the polarizing nature of Apple. Not to mention that we've been told that tablets are the next big thing how many times now?

Throw in the fact that when some people think tablet, they assume TabletPC, or touch netbook, rather than what apple seems to envision - which seems to be a more versatile e-reader - and you have recipe for issues to occur. I think apple was really smart to avoid iTablet.

[Skgoa]

Get a "real computer" and be prepared to constantly update, live with weird crashes etc.

Why are there even still prejudices like those? I honestly can't remember the last "weird crash" I had when running either XP from SP2 onwards, Vista or 7.

My Firefox died on me just yesterday, propably due to flash, some games simply freeze the computer when crashing and explorer.exe died several times since I switched to Windows 7. While I can live with that (its not nearly as bad as it used to be) I wouldn't expect people who have NOT grown up with shitty win3.1 and 95 to tolerate it. I expect a device like the iPhone/Pad to simply work, I allready switched to Linux on all computers but my gaming PC because I am fed up with windows.

And what does "constantly update" even mean? Windows updates automatically and most normal users don't even notice it, and most applications update on their own, too. Is having to click "update and restart" in iTunes every couple of months such a hassle that you have to be especially prepared for it?

I don't use iTunes so I can't comment on that, but I like to know what my PC does and I shure as hell won't let any of my computers update on their own. If you are giving control away like that anyways, there is no point in not just using a closed system. Also, I have to run custom patches and install programms just to DARE to connect to the internet on a windows machine - is that what you would expect the mass market to put up with?
A HUGE percentage of all computers is infected with some kind of malicious software, often even though a patch for the vulnerability allready existed for a long time - its mostly the fault of users NOT (automaticly) updating. So excuse me if thats incredibly lazy, but I want my iPad to just work and I want it to work regardless of what I install and whatever people do with it when I lend it to them or leave it unatended in the office to go to the toilet.

Besides, going online, looking at pictures or playing a movie on a modern OS is not rocket science. If you can touch a browser symbol with your finger you can also learn to click it using the mouse pointer. I find it hilarious how this "only tech-savvy nerds can use a computer" attitude still persists even though Windows got easier to use than ever.

Actually one of my grandmothers once asked me wether I needed the speakers turned on when I reinstalled Win95 on her PC. Just two weeks ago I introduced my mother to NoScript and AdBlock, wich rendered her almost unable to use the internet. My fathers PC is a mess that would imho only be solvable by at least formating the system partition. My parents are both computer and technology savvy and I know many people with the same or lower level of proficiency.
So once again: if you want to have it your way, thats fine by me. But theres a huge market for devices that are simple and forgiving.

[charlemagne]

I don't use iTunes so I can't comment on that, but I like to know what my PC does and I shure as hell won't let any of my computers update on their own. If you are giving control away like that anyways, there is no point in not just using a closed system. Also, I have to run custom patches and install programms just to DARE to connect to the internet on a windows machine - is that what you would expect the mass market to put up with?

Just to clarify - I'm not "hating" on the iPad, whoever wants one should get one, fine by me.

On those points:
1) I gladly give away "control" if it means that I don't have to remember to check Windows Update and stuff like Adobe Reader, iTunes, Trillian, Webbrowsers and eMailclient and what the hell ever I have installed for updates manually. What "control" do I gain by prohibiting programs to check for updates all by themselves? Most of them still prompt on download or installation of updates and patches anyways.

2) The last windows machine I had to run any custom patches or install programs on to connect to the internet was running Win98. I have no idea what you are talking about there, but then I'm on a DSL connection for years now, and IIRC since XP PPPoE was supported right out of the box.

The thing is, I'm just not seeing how the iPad makes anything I personally and most people I know do on their computers so much more easier. But sure, it's a fancy gadget and if I had money to throw at stuff I don't really want, I'd get one, too, just to play around with it.

[General Zod]

2) The last windows machine I had to run any custom patches or install programs on to connect to the internet was running Win98. I have no idea what you are talking about there, but then I'm on a DSL connection for years now, and IIRC since XP PPPoE was supported right out of the box.

Ever try installing Vista on a machine from scratch? I did a few weeks ago and it wouldn't even recognize my ethernet port. On the other hand Windows 7 picked it up right off the bat; even Ubuntu recognized it. Pre Win 7 OSes have terrible driver support.

[charlemagne]

Ever try installing Vista on a machine from scratch? I did a few weeks ago and it wouldn't even recognize my ethernet port. On the other hand Windows 7 picked it up right off the bat; even Ubuntu recognized it. Pre Win 7 OSes have terrible driver support.

Yeah I did actually And I don't remember any problems, of course I had the motherboard drivers ready, so I can't 100% remember if Vista had drivers present or needed to snatch them.

P.S. Although this really doesn't have to do anything with the iPad, and not even with "computers are hard to get online" because well, driver installation is something you just have to do when setting up the OS.

[Skgoa]

I don't use iTunes so I can't comment on that, but I like to know what my PC does and I shure as hell won't let any of my computers update on their own. If you are giving control away like that anyways, there is no point in not just using a closed system. Also, I have to run custom patches and install programms just to DARE to connect to the internet on a windows machine - is that what you would expect the mass market to put up with?

Just to clarify - I'm not "hating" on the iPad, whoever wants one should get one, fine by me.

And in the spirit of frindlyness let me clarify something, too: I am not even shure I will actually buy an iPad, I am just annoyed by everyone going "I don't like it, so there can not possibly be a market for it" - like Dahak did.

On those points:
1) I gladly give away "control" if it means that I don't have to remember to check Windows Update and stuff like Adobe Reader, iTunes, Trillian, Webbrowsers and eMailclient and what the hell ever I have installed for updates manually. What "control" do I gain by prohibiting programs to check for updates all by themselves? Most of them still prompt on download or installation of updates and patches anyways.

Well, different philosophy I guess. The most I allow my programs to do is firefox addons updating whenever I restart FF and I could stop them before or during that.

2) The last windows machine I had to run any custom patches or install programs on to connect to the internet was running Win98. I have no idea what you are talking about there, but then I'm on a DSL connection for years now, and IIRC since XP PPPoE was supported right out of the box.

Sorry, my point was about security holes (vulnerabilities, open ports and services) in standard windows installations. You wouldn't believe how many people have all kinds of ports open, just because Windows has services activated by default that no one in their right mind would actually use. Network Shares being writable to anyone and even printers anounced on the whole dormitory subnet are just some of the things we see here regularly, many people don't even have anti virus software or any kind of firewall. I volunteer at a student run non profit ISP in my dormitory, many of our "customers" are supposedly the product of one of the best education systems in the world and still you can't trust the huge majority of them to even set up their own lan connection(or provide the right room number or mac address), much less keep their systems uptodate.

The thing is, I'm just not seeing how the iPad makes anything I personally and most people I know do on their computers so much more easier. But sure, it's a fancy gadget and if I had money to throw at stuff I don't really want, I'd get one, too, just to play around with it.

Yeah, I am not going to throw any of my computers out, but IMHO this device has its place between actual computers (i.e. laptops) and smartphones. I have the money so I might just get one to try a few ideas for apps I had since the iPhone came out. At worst it will look good on my resume.

[General Zod]

And in the spirit of frindlyness let me clarify something, too: I am not even shure I will actually buy an iPad, I am just annoyed by everyone going "I don't like it, so there can not possibly be a market for it" - like Dahak did.

The obvious problem with the ipad really is what kind of niche it can possibly fill. It's too expensive to replace your typical netbook, too gimped to replace your typical tablet, and not powerful enough to replace your typical notebook. It's hard to see the average user of any of these wanting to buy an iPad at all.

[Dahak]

And in the spirit of frindlyness let me clarify something, too: I am not even shure I will actually buy an iPad, I am just annoyed by everyone going "I don't like it, so there can not possibly be a market for it" - like Dahak did.

I never said that there "can not possibly be a market for it". I just said that I can't see what market they are actually trying to target, because for all niches, I see devices that do a better job than the iPad in that niche, like Zod mentioned. Hardly the "revolution" Jobs announced...

[charlemagne]

Sorry, my point was about security holes (vulnerabilities, open ports and services) in standard windows installations. You wouldn't believe how many people have all kinds of ports open, just because Windows has services activated by default that no one in their right mind would actually use. Network Shares being writable to anyone and even printers anounced on the whole dormitory subnet are just some of the things we see here regularly, many people don't even have anti virus software or any kind of firewall. I volunteer at a student run non profit ISP in my dormitory, many of our "customers" are supposedly the product of one of the best education systems in the world and still you can't trust the huge majority of them to even set up their own lan connection(or provide the right room number or mac address), much less keep their systems uptodate.

Ok, I misunderstood you there, then (So the iPad will be 100% secure and without any holes that will need patching? ) And will the average user keep his iPad up to date? Anyways, this is straying too far from the thread topic.

Oh, and people not having Firewalls or virus scanners is really just stupidity or ignorance by now. Windows has a basic firewall that is fine for any home purpose since XP, and the MSE virus scanner thing isn't bad either.

[Medic]

Just my $0.02 as this thread winds down, I'm kind've an Apple hater (bias declared) or at the very least, I've balked at what I perceived to be the "Apple Tax" and being stuck with particular components.

That being said, when I heard of the iPad I wanted it to be more than what it was, a bigger iPhone -- though that's nothing to balk at, certainly -- and was thus greatly disappointed. Seeing all the bells and whistles of an iPhone have made me seriously envious at times but I REALLY don't want a phone bill (I have Kricket and am fucking satisfied with with a crappy phone and crappier service because I don't like being stuck with too many bills and contracts when I live paycheck-to-paycheck; it happened once and I'm loathe to get financially overcommitted again) and have thought: I could do worse than to make my next mp3 player an iPod Touch, since it is so much more than just an MP3 -- my bias in that realm has always been Creative but an iPod Touch is an undeniably better value.

A thought though: I read a lot of reviews on it when this thread kicked off, and one article noted that the iPad could be e-comic reader's killer-app of, well, ever. I've never been into comics but what about board game's? If they could get the rights or something to various games (my bias is Axis And Allies) you could make some fucking killer digitized board games, with decent graphics and everything, online, and without the huge handicap of a gust of wind or a bump of the table that can sometimes ruin a good board game.

These days I take it for granted none of my thoughts are original in these matters, so are there any board-game like apps or just really fun RTS / RPG games which are really unique to this format? Cause the allure of an iPad to me is the potential to create a new niche in gaming, something combining the elements of PC's (online, installable games), handhelds like the PSP and DS (simple, easily developable games, mobile and good battery life) and the Wii (intuitive controls, in iPad's case, a large touch screen), all in a fairly affordable price. And game only it does not.


That all being said, the somewhat lukewarm response from consumers, media and industry definitely means I don't plan to be an early adopter, but I hope it can carve out something unique, especially if they tweak the hardware up into a better performance bracket. My only real worry is Apple's frantic turnover of new products; I'm less-than-enthusiastic about constantly buying the Next Big Thing. For example, the gaming laptop I (still) use (though it's back in America for now, I'm in Iraq) has vintage 2006 parts. I've got bigger bills now than I did when I shopped for PC's / laptops once a year (car / truck) so I like to get my money's worth on stuff like computers and game systems.

edited for horrible grammar