Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut [Spoilers]

[Nephtys]

I dislike most of these endings. It's still too simplistic, and magical. Especially with how the 'Indoctrination Theory' STILL has everything suggesting it! I figured out exactly that the last setting was a dream, because of all the foreshadowing about the kid, weird noises, and the strange way that the Illusive Man and Anderson were devils and angels on your shoulder at the end.

Destroy still makes the most sense. The end goal, and theme even of the games were that although you had choices, you had to stick to your guns and get the job done. And that means ignoring whatever is being said, whip out that gun, and blow away the entire race of space beetles. The Geth and EDI can fend for themselves, even though that's entirely unnecessary to make them die or whatever.
Synthesis makes no sense. How can magic suddenly make everyone into cyborgs or whatever. Retarded. Especially since Robots vs Life was NOT the central theme of the game! It was barely even a MINOR theme. It just felt like Battlestar Galactica's godawful 'god did it' part.
Control was obviously a trap. You just killed the Illusive Man, who wanted to do the same damn thing, which caused all this trouble of the game in the first place? By touching electrified contacts? Weak move, starkid.

My other major problem with the ending still stands. The point of the Reapers. It wasn't to 'stop life and machines from killing each other'. That was never mentioned ever before. What makes far, far, far more sense was going with their 'They preserve life at it's peak with their eating everyone thing', or the 'they're doing what must be done to cull civilization so that new life can grow' or the 'they're doing what they think they must to fight a threat of some kind'.

[Losonti Tokash]

Did you even watch them? Indoctrination theory is dead. Dead as hell. Sticking to your guns means rejecting the choices, since even Destroy plays into the Catalyst's plans. Control is a real big trap, what with God-Shepard forcing the reapers to help rebuild and protect the galaxy.

As for the "point" of the Reapers: the catalyst literally tells you it was made to resolve conflicts between synthetics and organics. It decided the best solution was to reaperize everybody, including its original creators who did not partiuclarly want to be eaten by space crayfish. They are a bunch of AIs enforcing an incorrect interpretation of their mission with overpowering numbers and technology. Which is waaay better than "but they were really the good guys!!"

[Nephtys]

I meant the REST of the game supported all sorts of different endings and storylines. Literally, everything the Starchild tells you is out of nowhere, with almost nothing leading up to that. Resolve conflicts?! This was the FIRST time anything like that was even hinted at. No line from Harbinger or the dying reaper on Rannoch or anything like this.

The main game itself felt like it was backing the indoctrination theory with more or less every little mysterious bit. It's just shoddy writing, now with a patch to make it less shoddy. But still out of the blue.

[DPDarkPrimus]

The main game itself felt like it was backing the indoctrination theory with more or less every little mysterious bit. It's just shoddy writing, now with a patch to make it less shoddy. But still out of the blue.

Or red. Or green.

Y'know, depending.

[Vendetta]

Well holy shit, they've actually done the one thing that might make me break out ME3 for a blast now and again.

What? No, not this singleplayer nonsense, they've finally made it so that dressup cards stop appearing in multiplayer when you have maximum dressup for that character.

[Havok]

I meant the REST of the game supported all sorts of different endings and storylines. Literally, everything the Starchild tells you is out of nowhere, with almost nothing leading up to that. Resolve conflicts?! This was the FIRST time anything like that was even hinted at. No line from Harbinger or the dying reaper on Rannoch or anything like this.

The main game itself felt like it was backing the indoctrination theory with more or less every little mysterious bit. It's just shoddy writing, now with a patch to make it less shoddy. But still out of the blue.

Dude, it is so not out of the blue.

Did you think for three games that the Reapers didn't have someone/thing in control of them? And *GASP* it may be a computer intelligence... in control of... other AIs?!?! *DOUBLE GASP*

[Nephtys]

Of course! How could I not have realized how obvious it was that the ancient race of species-harvesting mechanoids that live in deep dark space between galaxies until needed in a recurring cyclical timescheme in fact, had no plan whatsoever, had no purpose to the harvesting part at all, and were all part of the scheme of a holographic child that offers anyone who completes his puzzle three seperate colored self destruct buttons! It was sooooo obvious!

[tezunegari]

Dude, it is so not out of the blue.

Did you think for three games that the Reapers didn't have someone/thing in control of them? And *GASP* it may be a computer intelligence... in control of... other AIs?!?! *DOUBLE GASP*

No, I didn't. I thought they were a Lovecraftian Horror with a reason to believe what they do is necessary that we just don't know yet.
ME and ME2 hinted at a reason behind the culling but never at someone who is controlling the Reapers.

So what exactly hinted at someone/thing else in control?

The bad thing about the ending is that a new antagonist - the Starchild - is introduced at the very ending of the Trilogy.
And the Starchild is introduced as The Antagonist of the whole story.
After all it controls the Reapers. The whole culling of advanced societies is its plan to preserve life.
But we only learn about it in what... two or three sentences?

There is no emotional connection to it. If they had used Shepards nightmares in a form of indoctrination and shown the Starchild
in the form of the kid tell it's story of being a shackled AI that was forced to commit countless genocides because its creators made a mistake... that would have made the ending far better than what was released.

[Zinegata]

It's been confirmed that there's a bit of dialogue that confirms Pezook's theory: The Reapers were created by some race, but the Reapers went haywire and OMNOMed their own masters. The masters, to quote the Star Child "objected" to being OMNOMED.

So yeah, the big reveal is that the Reapers were an experiment from millions of years ago that had a horrid misunderstanding with their masters and have been OMNOMing civilizations ever since.

There was a very subtle hint of this in ME.

It's not really that exciting of a reveal. It's more of a "Meh, we now have an excuse to ignore its stupid logic". Which is an improvement.

[Zinegata]

I dislike most of these endings. It's still too simplistic, and magical.

Yeah, I've come to argue that the Red / Blue / Green (but most especially Blue / Green) are actually the stupid rainbows and sunshine endings, whereas Reject ironically is the one that actually has any deep artistic merit.

Sometimes you don't win despite your convictions. It's how you face defeat that's more important.

[Losonti Tokash]

I thought they were a Lovecraftian Horror

...why would anyone think this?

[Havok]

Well holy shit, they've actually done the one thing that might make me break out ME3 for a blast now and again.

What? No, not this singleplayer nonsense, they've finally made it so that dressup cards stop appearing in multiplayer when you have maximum dressup for that character.

They added more levels to some of the gear and reclassified some of it too.

Isn't there a blog somewhere that says all the stuff the changed and weapons and powers that get nerfed and buffed?

[Zinegata]

I thought they were a Lovecraftian Horror

...why would anyone think this?

They do kinda look like Cthlhuish. It's an undertone of the series.

[Stark]

An undertone when?

[Grumman]

They do kinda look like Cthlhuish.

Psst! It's spelled "cuttlefish".

[Jordie]

I had a good laugh at Harby and Joker on the Normandy having a staring contest and then Normandy flying off when Harby had to blink. Also the StarBrat's "It's the ideal solution" quip when describing Synthesis.

They added more levels to some of the gear and reclassified some of it too.

Isn't there a blog somewhere that says all the stuff the changed and weapons and powers that get nerfed and buffed?

Bioware posts their "balance changes" in this topic, on the BSN forums.

Yay, they've now nerfed the Infiltrator's Tactical Cloak. Now it's completely useless for anything besides quick sniper shots unless you spec it for duration, and if you do that it does even less damage. Screws up my builds and now I have to promote.

[Zinegata]

An undertone when?

That the Reapers look like "cuttlefish" (fine Grumman )? That they employ zombies? That they are unfathomably OMNOMING stuff?

I used "undertone" for a reason. Not necessarily the effect they're going for, but there are hints that bring up Lovecraftian imagery to those familiar with Lovecraft.

[Oscar Wilde]

An undertone when?

That the Reapers look like "cuttlefish" (fine Grumman )? That they employ zombies? That they are unfathomably OMNOMING stuff?

I used "undertone" for a reason. Not necessarily the effect they're going for, but there are hints that bring up Lovecraftian imagery to those familiar with Lovecraft.

There was also that whole mission in 2 where you're aboard the Derelict Reaper
"Even a dead God can dream"

[Omeganian]

Up until ME2, Sovereign's speech reminded me of "Letter to a Phoenix". Now it does again.

[Zinegata]

Why the Refuse Ending is the best ending:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegr ... ss-effect/

It makes one want to break out the "Grey Knight" speech from 40K.

[Stark]

Is lecturing your Xbox the sign of a good game, or a bad one?

[Zinegata]

Is lecturing your Xbox the sign of a good game, or a bad one?

Is Stark being a troll again, or did he fail to recognize the irony (as laid down in the article) on how Bioware's "Fuck you non-believers!" ending was actually the only truly good and artistic ending?

[Losonti Tokash]

Are you trolling, or do you really think that the ending that's almost line for line what many fans had suggested during the interim is secretly a "fuck you"?

[Covenant]

I think that article is atrocious, as I personally could not stand Liara in ME1. Plus, the "refusal" ending isn't really that much of a good ending unless it's actually shown that on the next cycles, the reapers go down through a force other than the crucible choices. I would not want the "live in peace" solution being the first people to find that time capsule building it and immediately choosing the synthesis option long before the reapers arrive.

Not like I would really care, but it would be a little bit of a wet firecracker finale if that was it. Hell, it'd be more interesting if their solution to the reaper question was duct-taping up the citadel and keeping it from ever signaling a new harvest, but whatev'. Control still seems like the way to go. Synthesis is somewhat monstrous. Destroy is satisfying, but wasteful if I'm given the option of control. Control keeps the reapers alive as warehouses of culture and knowledge, as well as making sure they'll follow a new path. Basically you're just replacing the star child, so at no point do the reapers lose any agency or become any less than they were. Plus, the civilizations who died to create each reaper entity probably died kicking and screaming, and would rather be helping people and making sure their sacrifice was worth something. That and you become the motivating influence behind a giant invincible space armada of fixer-upper worker cuttlefish superships.

And then when the Tyranids invade, you'll actually be able to stop 'em.

[Zinegata]

Are you trolling, or do you really think that the ending that's almost line for line what many fans had suggested during the interim is secretly a "fuck you"?

Actually, it's not secretly a fuck you. It's overtly a fuck you.

What you're ignoring is that the fans don't simply want a "Refuse" ending. They want one wherein the galaxy wins via conventional means anyway. That's a pretty major deviation from what the fans want and what Bioware delivered.

Moreover, certain Bioware employees (namely the ones insisting that the original ending was fine) have even gone so far as to say that the next cycle wins because they used the Crucible, implying that anyone who picked Refuse was an idiot who unnecessarily condemned the current cycle to obliteration.

So really, calling me a troll when you can't even get the facts straight is pretty sad.

Personally, I'm fine with the Refuse ending as-is. By forcing the players to lose for their convictions - instead of getting rainbows and sunshine like all the other endings - it actually becomes the one with a deeper moral than any of the other endings.

Not like I would really care, but it would be a little bit of a wet firecracker finale if that was it. Hell, it'd be more interesting if their solution to the reaper question was duct-taping up the citadel and keeping it from ever signaling a new harvest, but whatev'.

The in-game dialogue is deliberately vague how the next cycle won, and I think there are folks in Bioware who kept it deliberately vague in order to give fans leeway to believe that the next cycle wins conventionally. I suspect the actual writer of that segment really wanted to give the fans what they wanted, but he couldn't go all the way and give a "Golden Refuse" ending.

However, Mike Gamble (the guy who compared the original ending to the Great Gathsby) insists that the next cycle uses the Crucible to win... despite not being involved in the writing process at all. So while some elements of Bioware meant it to be an olive branch, it's pretty clear that those who were insistent that the original endings were fine meant Refuse to be a "Fuck you".