World of Warcraft: Shattering

[SirNitram]

The Southern Barrens is quite an experience if you, like many poor fools before, did oldBarrens.

Naralex, I blame you.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

Trying to find a place in Stormwind to "hang" out. Really liking how expansive and open some of the new places are in the city. Has anyone found jump paths to get into expansion areas yet ? One thing that I am a little disappointed about are how some 85 elite mobs town guards hit like a limp noodle. Me and some guildies rolled through Tarren Mill and the Horde controlled area of Anderhol, and the only 85 level mob that did any amount of damage that might make a plate wearer worry are the pets that the flight masters summon. City guards were another matter......

[Minischoles]

And, whether you believe it or not, for the casual player - you know, people who don't have hours every day to devote to the game - they DO want to see some of the end game raid content, but it takes them much longer to get there than it does you. For them, Wrath's endgame requires "some insane hoops to jump through to get geared to attempt most of it". I realize it offends some of the old-time 8-12 hour a day "Wow is my life/job" people to think that someone with an actual life gets to see the inside of the precious, precious endgame as SOME point, but that's what keeps selling the game to people who aren't obsessed with the game.

To be fair, you'll find very few endgame raiders who play for that long - generally you only played like that during Vanilla and some parts of TBC (like Naxx and Sunwell) for WOTLK, you very rarely played that much, and in fact most high end raiders probably play the game far less than 'casual' players who like to grind things out do. Since March i've generally played only on wednesday night, when we blitz all the content and then retire for the week. I spend more time outside the game than I ever do inside it, the only time that changes is during progress raids - but that's an easy trade off, a few weeks of raiding constantly, to spend the next few months raiding once a week.


I can get the old content fascination, I think a little bit of it is the same nostalgia you sometimes see on the official forums, and it's generally from people who never actually raided that content, when they look back it isn't from the perspective of someone who was running that shit as current content, they're looking back at it as something they missed. For example, most people who post on forums about Naxx, never went there. 1% of the wow population in Vanilla completed that place, and the population has grown hugely since then - but people still look back at it, same for Sunwell.
While people who actually did it, have some fond memories of it, but generally they're tainted by all the stuff they had to do - grinding out consumables for Loatheb attempts, farming Nature Resist gear from Maraudon, getting every conceivable buff possible for fights like KT and Brutallus. To anyone who experienced that content when it was current, we do have some fond memories - generally of the first kill, like for me I still remember the first time I killed Kael and killed Algalon as my favourite moments in game - but I also remember the grinding and the wiping.
For someone going back, they generally don't have that, so it can be enjoyable for them, since they're just blitzing the place.

[Ghost Rider]

Seriously, if your guild wants to go back to that, it's easier to fly to other parts of Northrend or go through a five minute dungeon run. If it's for the challenge? Then aside from Professor Putricide on Heroic and Arthas on self same...you can have your family pet roll his/her face on keyboard. It'll have the same feel but less boring for you.

Why does it piss you off that some people enjoy the game more than you do? I really do not understand your attitude.

What pissed attitude? It is that easy, and the scenery that boring. What, you think this shit is hard? Hell, even at the most grinding nonsense it wasn't hard. It was "Don't stand there, move left when someone said so, and oh yeah...don't outdo the tank in threat."

But to address being pissy, that's for later given you have more to say.

And, whether you believe it or not, for the casual player - you know, people who don't have hours every day to devote to the game - they DO want to see some of the end game raid content, but it takes them much longer to get there than it does you.

In the past? Sure. Now? You'd have to be a lazy fucker not to just get gear. Seriously, heroics drop better then two raid dungeons and one of the raid dungeon gives a 277 iLevel ring for killing trash. This is not TBC or vanilla wherein you had to jump through flaming hoop one to get to number ten. Wrath allows you to skip to number nine with ease. If you cannot see that, you are not casual.

For them, Wrath's endgame requires "some insane hoops to jump through to get geared to attempt most of it". I realize it offends some of the old-time 8-12 hour a day "Wow is my life/job" people to think that someone with an actual life gets to see the inside of the precious, precious endgame as SOME point, but that's what keeps selling the game to people who aren't obsessed with the game.

Like I pointed above, bullshit. Only the lazy who wants it delivered to them would think that. The fact that when they allowed dungeons to drop the second highest badge needed for T9 is when it allowed anyone with a pulse to see the endgame. And that was fucking awesome. No longer do I have to jump through fifty hoops for my alts. No longer do I have to do that for a new member. You're a fucking idiot if you think anyone with a brain cell was offended. Oh wait, you think endgame Wrath requires insane hoops. The only insane hoop was doing pre-nerf Ulduar.

Do or did you know any of the 8-12 hour people? Way back in the day, they fucking hated it because it was PvP. Oh you thought they were raiders? Only the stupid. The *hardcore* actually used strategy. Y'know the brain? So we took four hours on raid night, refined and did it better. Fuck, most of the idiots who made the 12 hour did that shit because they really really wanted number 1 in the world.

Which seems to be contradicted by some of the Epic Fail I witnessed and had to endure in pick-up groups.

Find better ones. Raiding is easy enough that if you can claim the tank/healer spots you can run weekly PuG better then guilds.

Again, why does it bother you that some people enjoy parts of the game you don't?

So we're back to this about being pissy. It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is idiots like you who have this mentality that died nearly a year ago when Blizzard went the far more casual route. So, you want to see the old world. Awesome, sweet, cool because that shit required 20 hoops because Blizzard wanted time sinks. But saying you'll go back to see Wrath in Catacylsm is being stupid and lazy. They have made it as accessible as it ever will be short of dumping a youtube video in your mailbox.

For anyone crowing about regular difficulty now is just being stupid and lazy. And before you say some time issue, then that is solely a personal problem and one everyone else shares. People who want to see the endgame deal with it by finding 9 more like minded people and then go at it when they have the time for it. The same thing that has always been, but easier but within a couple hours you accomplish a shit load more and now you can SAVE your progress rather then going "so...last day before reset.". The game has become loads easier and more accessible as it should. This is not a fucking job.

[Jaevric]

It's times like this I'm tempted to resubscribe and see how much has changed. I stopped playing during Burning Crusade after I got sick of Guild Drama and some other issues, so I'd sort of hate to play catch-up at this point...and I don't know anyone IRL who still plays.

Anyway, what amuses me about it is I know quite a few people whose main complaint about later content is that it's too easy and they don't want to play a game if "any idiot who plays for a few hours a week can see endgame content." Frankly, having been in a really mediocre raid guild that would spend 6 hours on a Sunday trying to grind through frigging Molten Core with a bunch of morons and would never have set foot in Naxx, I don't see the point of making the game impossible to play for anyone who has a job and/or a family.

[Ghost Rider]

It's times like this I'm tempted to resubscribe and see how much has changed. I stopped playing during Burning Crusade after I got sick of Guild Drama and some other issues, so I'd sort of hate to play catch-up at this point...and I don't know anyone IRL who still plays.

Guild Drama never changes.

The game could deliver everything for simply existing and guild drama would happen.

So really, wait for the expansion to come out as a reset point if you're feeling the itch.

Anyway, what amuses me about it is I know quite a few people whose main complaint about later content is that it's too easy and they don't want to play a game if "any idiot who plays for a few hours a week can see endgame content." Frankly, having been in a really mediocre raid guild that would spend 6 hours on a Sunday trying to grind through frigging Molten Core with a bunch of morons and would never have set foot in Naxx, I don't see the point of making the game impossible to play for anyone who has a job and/or a family.

That was the largest problem. The items to even start doing raiding was nuts, then the assembly, then the time devotion, etc. Raiding took effort, and when examined too much effort because they copied the basics from EQ. By TBC, they started down the better road, but some of the steps were still above most and with the current? They leveled off for the better. The only thing I wished they didn't do was artifically hindering us with timed gates.

For being too easy? My GL experienced it in the fact that some people were impossibly stupid because of how easy it was for them to get where they were and it took real effort to get them fucking out or shape up. BUT! That is much more in relation to drama more times then it was a matter of the game.

[Broomstick]

Seriously, if your guild wants to go back to that, it's easier to fly to other parts of Northrend or go through a five minute dungeon run. If it's for the challenge? Then aside from Professor Putricide on Heroic and Arthas on self same...you can have your family pet roll his/her face on keyboard. It'll have the same feel but less boring for you.

Why does it piss you off that some people enjoy the game more than you do? I really do not understand your attitude.

What pissed attitude?

That's how you're coming across, at least to me.

It is that easy, and the scenery that boring. What, you think this shit is hard?

No, actually I don't. Some of it is easier than other stuff, but until you're a bleeding-edge raider or going for top level PvP no, it's not hard. I play this for entertainment, not to beat my head against the wall in frustration. There needs to be a balance between too easy and too hard, and if it's coming down on the "too easy" side for your taste, well, can't argue with an opinion.

And, whether you believe it or not, for the casual player - you know, people who don't have hours every day to devote to the game - they DO want to see some of the end game raid content, but it takes them much longer to get there than it does you.

In the past? Sure. Now? You'd have to be a lazy fucker not to just get gear.

That's sort of what I mean - people who don't get gear are "lazy fuckers". Well, maybe they are mainly in the game to socialize, as odd as that seems to some people. I know you're not impressed by the scenery but I have at least one good friend who mainly likes to explore and find odd little nooks and crannies. Hey, whatever makes them happy. The fact that there's more than one thing grabbing peoples' interest in WoW is part of what I think makes it a great game. I just don't get calling someone a "lazy fucker" because they aren't driven to level cap.

My biggest obstacle in raiding, for myself, is that I seldom have the necessary block of time in which to raid, nor do I have a steady schedule. If I can only play for an hour, or at most, two at a time and can't commit to a specific date/time it makes it impossible to raid regularly, even if I'd like to. Fortunately, my guild allows me to act as a "substitute" raider, so if someone can't make it or has to leave early and I happen to be on line at the time I can jump in. I get away with it mainly because I know how to STFU in vent and follow orders, and yes, it's not as difficult as it used to be. Frankly, having only 1-3% of the player base get to end game isn't a good business model (and WoW is a business). I am in favor of the current scheme where initially the endgame is hard to get into (though not as bad as vanilla endgame) and then, after the bleeding edge guys get their rocks off, they make it accessible to more of the player base.

You're a fucking idiot if you think anyone with a brain cell was offended.

Then there are a LOT of players with no brain cells! Plenty of people have their panties in a twist over it.

Do or did you know any of the 8-12 hour people?

Yep.

Way back in the day, they fucking hated it because it was PvP. Oh you thought they were raiders? Only the stupid. The *hardcore* actually used strategy. Y'know the brain? So we took four hours on raid night, refined and did it better. Fuck, most of the idiots who made the 12 hour did that shit because they really really wanted number 1 in the world.

yeah, well, if you can never set aside four hours in a single block you're kind of fucked for raiding, right? Except now you can get around that. Good thinking on Blizzard's part, keeps more people happy and makes the game more accessible to those who can't set aside large blocks of time. Is this a problem somehow? If you want to raid in four hour blocks more power to you. Otherwise, I don't understand why you're swearing a blue streak over this.

And you know damn well that back in vanilla it wasn't' JUST four hours on raid night - there was a shit load of grinding to get gear, mats, resists, etc... all of which took time.

Which seems to be contradicted by some of the Epic Fail I witnessed and had to endure in pick-up groups.

Find better ones. Raiding is easy enough that if you can claim the tank/healer spots you can run weekly PuG better then guilds.

Actually, my guild is fine, but when I have a week when the only time I can play is 3-4 am and everyone else is playing 8 pm - 12 midnight I don't' have much choice in the matter. Yes, I have a crazy-ass work schedule right now, and it interferes with my hobbies.

Again, why does it bother you that some people enjoy parts of the game you don't?

So we're back to this about being pissy. It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is idiots like you who have this mentality that died nearly a year ago when Blizzard went the far more casual route. So, you want to see the old world. Awesome, sweet, cool because that shit required 20 hoops because Blizzard wanted time sinks.

Except you no longer have those 20 hoops to go through to get to old world content anymore. Yay.

But saying you'll go back to see Wrath in Catacylsm is being stupid and lazy. They have made it as accessible as it ever will be short of dumping a youtube video in your mailbox.

See, THIS is where you look pissy - anyone going back to see Wrath is "stupid and lazy". Well, fuck, I guess that if you haven't joined the game by now to hell with you, right? I shouldn't go back to help new folks level their toons, right? God forbid if my and a few guildies just want to fuck around on a Saturday afternoon, if we don't do something YOU approve of we're "stupid and lazy". THAT's why you come across as pissy, GR. Someone does something you, personally, wouldn't do or don't find interesting and suddenly they're "stupid and lazy". No, they're just different from you. Get a grip.

And before you say some time issue, then that is solely a personal problem and one everyone else shares.

But not to the same degree. The guildie whose kid was diagnosed with kidney cancer - he's spending most of his time visiting his son in hospitals and driving him to medical appointments while continuing to work full time and take care of his other kid and his ill mother and - look, the guy make most folks' "busy schedules" look like an afternoon nap. We've got two doctors in my guild - when they're on call they might do dailies but they don't raid 'cause, you know, they're on call and if the call comes they have to go immediately. Lots of people actually have less time to play than most, for very good reasons. Then there are people such as myself, who have free hours but our schedules are so crazy we might play 3-5 am one day and 2-4 pm the next and not all then have three days off and... I just can't schedule anything. Yes, we all have to manage our time but we don't all have the same time management problems.

People who want to see the endgame deal with it by finding 9 more like minded people and then go at it when they have the time for it. The same thing that has always been, but easier but within a couple hours you accomplish a shit load more and now you can SAVE your progress rather then going "so...last day before reset.". The game has become loads easier and more accessible as it should. This is not a fucking job.

Um.. yeah. No one is saying differently. I think we're even in agreement this is better. Again, why are you throwing around "lazy fuckers" all the time? Some are PvP fanatics and never see the inside of ICC or Black Temple and who cares if they do or not? Some people sign on to hang out with friends and dance naked in Stormwind. No skin off my nose if they do or not. I don't view them as "lazy fuckers", I just figure they're looking for something different than I am.

And you did miss one reason for going back to old content - although the market is small, one can make a quick profit on prior-expansion mats needed to level alts. When inscription first came out I made a killing by simply taking an afternoon to gather low-level herbs on an alt, because a lot of people don't want to be bothered looking for stuff. Hey, they saved time, I made gold, everybody happy. Wonderful how it works, right? I don't call them "lazy fuckers", and they don't /spit on me for cruising low level zones. Why can't we all just get along?

[Civil War Man]

It's times like this I'm tempted to resubscribe and see how much has changed. I stopped playing during Burning Crusade after I got sick of Guild Drama and some other issues, so I'd sort of hate to play catch-up at this point...and I don't know anyone IRL who still plays.

I've only played a little bit of the new content, but so far what I have played has been a marked improvement over the original game. Early game is much friendlier to new players, in particular. I dusted off my low-level Tauren Shaman and started questing in Stonetalon Peaks, and the experience was not like trying to pull your own teeth, which was a complete 180 from the way that zone used to be.

Honestly, though, I probably wouldn't play if I didn't play with people I knew IRL. I use WoW as a way to waste time and keep in contact with friends who live too far away for me to hang out with regularly in person.

Anyway, what amuses me about it is I know quite a few people whose main complaint about later content is that it's too easy and they don't want to play a game if "any idiot who plays for a few hours a week can see endgame content." Frankly, having been in a really mediocre raid guild that would spend 6 hours on a Sunday trying to grind through frigging Molten Core with a bunch of morons and would never have set foot in Naxx, I don't see the point of making the game impossible to play for anyone who has a job and/or a family.

Someone saying the content is too easy for them is one thing, but anyone who complains about a game because other people can play it too is either a troll or a bad player. Usually the kind of dead weight that calculates their worth as a player by the numbers on their gear, but wouldn't even have that gear to begin with if it weren't for a couple dozen other players picking up their slack.

[Ghost Rider]

I'm shortening this to one single point because addressing all the red herrings is pointless.

That's how you're coming across, at least to me.

Then it is probably just to you given the amount of red herrings you spew over your situation. Your situation isn't unique, others found ways, others don't. Again the game as it is? It is limited by two particular vectors that has plagued said game since the beginning.

1. Time.
2. People.

Time can be taken in any of it form being yours, others, the game itself. Blizzard cannot do anything about the first two and the third is because of policy.

People will always be a personal hurdle and has to weighed against what you can do, want and have.

As for your sob stories, thank you for bringing up them. It doesn't really matter given they are your problems but so far all I've seen of your moaning is the two above problems and everyone experiences them in different degrees. Yours are different then mine, but as I brought up the raiding scence has gotten as easy as it can get short of delivering said product in the mailbox. Your problems would hinder any hobby, not just WoW.

[TheFeniX]

Level 80 PVP is bearable now.

The Demolishers got a massive speed buff and what looks like a good DR buff. Me and one other guy duoed SotA with two tanks.
Cannons on Isle on Conquest and Strand can now crit on players for 16k (they used to do around 1-2k) so it makes stacking up at gates a dangerous proposition.
Defending Wintergrasp is really hard with the tank speed increase, which isn't a bad thing.

Healing got nerfed hard. A Holy Pally can no longer just laugh off 4 DPS wailing on them while spamming instants or short-casts.

The bosses in AV and IoC are now 85. They also hit hard as I pulled aggro off Drek so he wouldn't kill one of our healers. He one-shotted me for 47k. It was awesome.

All-in-all, I'm liking the patch. And I love the delicious tears from healers as they actually have to work for a change. That and running into an equally geared pally isn't insta-death with my DK anymore.

The amount of crying is hilarious. They completely re-tooled tanking with my pally a month ago and my response was to continue tanking and, you know, realearn my class. A lot of pallys just gave up tanking because they suck.

[Highlord Laan]

The new Felwood is awesome. It's no longer a stopgap zone to grab a level or two before running off, it's got tons of story and quest objectives now. And the Worgen take center stage as the good guys.

[CaptainChewbacca]

All the zones now have fun quests. I spent 2 days exploring, picking up flight paths, and snagging easy pets. There's a plants vs zombies minigame in Hillsbarad that you've got to try out.

[Civil War Man]

The first thing I did when I logged in Tuesday was take my Death Knight over to Badlands to do the "The Day Deathwing Came" quests.

Ya dang-blasted rock elementals! I'll punch you too!

[dworkin]

All I know is that my forsaken warrior is crying over the Western Plaguelands. All that lush new life, all the lovely spiders gone, people are out farming and growing things...

Deathwing you BASTARD!

[CaptainChewbacca]

The 'John Rambo' questline in redridge has to be some of the most entertaining stuff I've seen. Blizzard is really writing some great questlines these days. You even get a tank/machine gun and wipe out the blackrock orcs.

[Broomstick]

Damn! Probably 10 more days before I get a WoW-compatible computer! I am so jealous!

[Highlord Laan]

The 'John Rambo' questline in redridge has to be some of the most entertaining stuff I've seen. Blizzard is really writing some great questlines these days. You even get a tank/machine gun and wipe out the blackrock orcs.

"You realize we just blew up half up Redridge, right?

Keeshan... Spoiler

*ties on the red headband. Wipes away a manly tear.*

[Molyneux]

Rolled a new troll druid, and god damn if I didn't actually enjoy the tutorial area content. Also, I would pay good money for one of those baby raptors as a pet, they're the cutest things I've ever seen.
Spoiler

Alas, poor Zuni...

[dworkin]

The 'John Rambo' questline in redridge has to be some of the most entertaining stuff I've seen. Blizzard is really writing some great questlines these days. You even get a tank/machine gun and wipe out the blackrock orcs.

The Badlands quest with the three guys sitting round drinking and claiming to of driven off Deathwing was hilarious.

[Minischoles]

I like the new quests, but what I don't like is the level of phasing in the 1-60 content now, or the level of 'breadcrumbs'.

I enjoyed phasing in Northrend, but in Azeroth it just feels like they've gone massively overboard. EVERYTHING is phased near enough, nearly every single quest once you're out of your starting zone phases the world in some way, it's really over-used. In some cases it makes sense (like the Horde questline in Stonetalon, or quests in Ashenvale) but sometimes it doesn't.

And the breadcrumbs make questing as you wish a little redundant, since unless you do the quest line that leads you there, you end up without any quest hubs. For example, if you just walk into Stonetalon as Horde, you only get one quest - that's it. You have to do the quest line to get the quest that sends you there, before you get the hub.

[Steve]

I went ahead and signed up for my seven free days to check out the new stuff. I like the new Northshire quests. And the proliferation of FPs is nice, though it's also irritating that they've got a "hub" system where you have to go to the central FP of your zone to fly out of the zone.

[White Haven]

They actually went and made the breadcrumb quests mandatory? If true, that's such an amazingly retrograde step...

[Steve]

They actually went and made the breadcrumb quests mandatory? If true, that's such an amazingly retrograde step...

Breadcrumb? Elaborate? I'm unfamiliar with the term.

[Minischoles]

They actually went and made the breadcrumb quests mandatory? If true, that's such an amazingly retrograde step...

Not in every place, but in most i've encountered, the breadcrumb ends up unlocking a phase - my example of Stonetalon is the most apt, you really don't get any quests if you just skip there.

They actually went and made the breadcrumb quests mandatory? If true, that's such an amazingly retrograde step...

Breadcrumb? Elaborate? I'm unfamiliar with the term.

It's a term Blizzard uses, it's just a word that indicates a quest that you follow to go elsewhere. There are a lot of quests in the game like this now, I think basically to help new players by leading them around both the world and the new story.

[SirNitram]

The main examples are Warchief's Call board quests, and probably the same for King's Call or whatever the Alliance uses.

Can you guess which side I've been enjoying?

While I once again had to relearn Ret Paladin, it's more enjoyable than the faceroll era. Truth be told, I haven't touched classes other than Paladin-Death Knight-Warrior since my early FAIL days, so I am planning to try and learn a casting or agility-based class next. Yes, I've not even fully levelled a hunter.