Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers)

[Anacronian]

But murdering everybody is pretty surefire and doens't run into the risk of the people you're scolding going "Make me" and turning out to have better tech than you. So it IS logical, if your goal system doesn't include "Don't murder people" as an imperative, and your only other goal is "stop organic vs. sentient conflict forever" - remember, logic is about reaching conclusions from premises. If your premises are fucked up and monstrous, the LOGICAL action will be fucked up and monstrous, too.

But there is nothing surefire about that way either as ME 1 proves, Even if the reapers go all ape shit on the galaxy as they usually do somewhere some AI might survive just like the Protheons on Ilos survived the reaper onslaught and a AI probably won't die from the passing of time like they did(if Vigil surved 50.000 so could a AI) - In the game the only surefire way to stop AI's (as far as we know) is the catalyst.

[Omeganian]

Also, a funny quote from the Bioware board before I blow another gasket:

I realized that the Catalyst's argument made perfect sense just a little while ago. I've also been worried about people shooting mydog recently, since people can be ****s. Fortunately this game showed me a good way to deal with problems like that, so I shot my dog. No one can shoot my dog now.

Sounds familiar - to a Russian.

http://books.google.co.il/books?id=Zv8k ... al&f=false

[PeZook]

It would take not only a fucked up, but also a contradictory premise to think that turning people into machine paste is the equivalent of saving them, so I am really far more inclined to believe that the Catalyst was either lying or had simply gone completely insane from too many genocides.

How is it contradictory? It depends on what you define as "life". If you save the DNA, you can recreate the species later using biomedical tech, so if your value system doesn't put any value in individuals (which the Reapers OBVIOUSLY don't, since they fuck individuals up in all sorts of gruesome ways) it's perfectly logical to save organic life as nothing but a massive DNA sample.

Remember: logical does not equal moral.

Which is much more interesting from a narrative perspective than this insane notion that the Catalyst was right just because it says so.

Or yeah. Either way, Shep's meek and unquestioning behavior is the worst part.

"Oh yeah AI dude I just met, the same who's responsible for killing my friends and wrecking my homeworld, I will do as you say.

No way you're lying just to get me electrocuted!"

[PeZook]

But there is nothing surefire about that way either as ME 1 proves, Even if the reapers go all ape shit on the galaxy as they usually do somewhere some AI might survive just like the Protheons on Ilos survived the reaper onslaught and a AI probably won't die from the passing of time like they did(if Vigil surved 50.000 so could a AI) - In the game the only surefire way to stop AI's (as far as we know) is the catalyst.

Doesn't the Crucible only work on mass effect based technologies? Since it needs the Citadel to work and all...So that one's not surefire, either. Turns out that during billions of years random variables accumulate out of control and might distrupt any careful plan

[Havok]

And you're a fucking tool.

Bioware writing a bad guy doesn't mean they agree with Hitler. Bioware writing a bad guy and forcing you to do exactly what it wants is.

So you are stating unequivocally, that Bioware and it's writers support genocide and agree with Hitler. And you will provide proof of this I assume? Of course you will.

So, you don't consider a highly advanced AI that has not questioned his motives or actions for maybe a million years, admitting that his solution doesn't work anymore and then giving up three options that will cease his existence, the same as saying he has been wrong?

No, that's just him further justifying its own shitty existence. It only questions its own motives because the galaxy got a fleet big enough to kick its ass; not because it's actually some paragon of knowledge.

OH FUCKING REALLY? You think that rag tag fleet was going to stop the Reapers? Did they destroy a single one in space? You also realize that what was at Earth was in no way shape or form the entirety of the Reaper population? Of course you don't. That would require paying attention to the game.

Sheppard gets to make the choice TO DESTROY THE AAI AND REAPERS by the grace of the AAI and nothing more. If it's not admitting wrong doing I'm not sure what is.

Right. Why would you take the word of COMPUTER that has watched 50,000 year galactic civilizations unfold hundreds of times into account. He is probably just making wild guesses.

So what gave him the right to mass-murder trillions of sentient beings again in the first place? Oh right, because he doesn't actually know shit and you're being a stupid indoctrinated fan boy.

Because despite your attempt at mockery, the fucking moron of an AI was in fact only GUESSING. He committed mass murder over a HUNCH and a shitty premise. He's no better than Hitler.

You can prove he was guessing? The game and the writing are stated as fact. That the AI is doing what he does is because of fact is a given. You kinda not understanding that key point of fiction? When the bad guy does his monologue to the good guy and explains who, what, when, where and why the good guys doesn't call him a liar. He goes, "OOOOH well I UNDERSTAND now, BUT..."

Again, you are an idiot.
Citing ONE AI and a couple thousand programs doesn't prove the AAI wrong.

No, this is just you employing Wall of Ignorance.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Catalyst was wrong, and it was reading off Mein Kampf to justify its genocide.

Its premise was wrong. The created are not automatically hard-wired to destroy the creator, or vice versa. The Quarians and Geth prove this in the Golden ending. EDI proves this.

My gawd.. you are for real.
The Quarians tried to wipe out the Geth. The Geth tried to wipe out the Quarrians. I'm going to use caps lock here, CLEARLY THE AAI'S PREMISE IS NOT ONLY NOT WRONG, BUT SURPRISE... CORRECT. That CMDR. Shepard gets them to cooperate... a man both organic and synthetic (OMG!!! It's like Bioware is trying to tell you something there...) is part of what makes THIS CYCLE UNIQUE.

NEWSFLASH: Left to their own devices, one of them gets completely wiped out by the other. But hey the AAI actually knows what "inherent" means.

Even worse, there is no guarantee that a destructive war will not happen even without it committing mass genocide. Turians fight humans. Humans fight Batarians. Batarians fighr Vorcha. Conflict happens, but the root cause is not necessarily the racist Organic vs Synthetic bullshit it is spouting.

Man... you don't fucking GET IT.
They should have named it The Gardner instead of the Catalyst so dumbasses like you would get the concept behind the AAI and how it thinks.

All it cares about is making sure it's garden stays healthy and continues to grow. It takes care of it's garden and makes decisions based on past experiences of how long it can leave it's rose bushes alone before they start to stagnate and die from their own overgrowth.
The issue of Synthetic Vs Organic is a parallel issue. See the Protheans. They were not in danger of being wiped out by their AI, as they exterminated them already, YET they held their foot down on the throat of any other race attempting to uplift themselves or challenge their authority. Swell guys.

NOW look what happened when the Protheans, the supposed best at everything were replaced? The races that succeeded them actually succeeded where they could not.

I'm mean, is your mind so small that you can't comprehend a different way of looking at things? The idea that a COMPUTER mau not be bothered with impassioned OMG HITLER!!! being screamed at the top of someones lungs? Did you NOT FUCKING PICK UP ON THE WAY THE REAPERS VIEW THE RACES OF THE GALAXY IN THREE ENTIRE GAMES? Fucking hell.

You also don't listen well.

No, you fucking moron. You're the one who's seriously buying justifications for GENOCIDE. I guess the Jews were awfully happy that Hitler had good reasons for killing them off too!

There is a difference between UNDERSTAND and BUYING, you fucking idiot.

The AAI states that it does what it does to keep synthetic life from wiping out ALL intelligent organic life, clearly an even that happened at some point, not to keep them from simply waring with organics. It's an ends justifying the means issue. A horrific one, but you chose one... kill off one or maybe ten civilizations to save all intelligent life in the galaxy, or just let it all die out.

First of all, you're a fucking moron for believing that what the AAI says is actually 100% true and factual and not merely self justifications.

Why would a unopposed, COMPUTER whom is practically god for all intents and purposes need to justify ANYTHING? Especially to itself? Why does it have to lie? What purpose does it serve? WHO IS IT JUSTIFYING ITSELF TO?
You want to so badly ascribe YOUR way of thinking and understanding, as limited as it obviously is, to what are supposed to be the decisions of a fucking Million Year old AI.

Secondly, the Geth prove that Synthetics are not inherently hard-wired to wipe out all organics. They stopped themselves from wiping out the Quarians. That you believe this bullshit line of reasoning that "Synthetics are hard-wired to destroy organic life" or vice versa is the very root of the problem: It's bullshit. It's nothing more than the Little Hitler's racist AI fantasies.

HAHAHAHAHAHA No they fucking DID NOT. Legion was ready to keep the Reaper code and wipe out the ENTIRE QUARIAN FLEET. The Quarian fleet was ready to EXTERMINATE THE GETH. It was only Act Of Sheppard that kept it from happening. Oh yeah, that was AFTER the Quarians tried to EXTERMINATE the Geth... AGAIN. Fucking El Oh EL man, stop deluding yourself so badly.

EXCEPT it is not a complete extermination of ALL organic life.

Yes, like how Hitler wants his own fucking Master Race. Great logic. Go to hell, you Nazi lover.

Don't push you fucking luck kid.
And whether you like the concept or not, it is how nature works. The weak are replaced by the strong until the strong themselves get replaced. If you want to think that we as humans are above that, then you are living with blinders on.

Genocide ain't cool no matter your reasons. It is NEVER justifiable, ESPECIALLY when the premise is absolute bullshit (Synthetics are hard-wired to kill organics, and/or vice versa. Again, nothing more than fucking racist bullshit).

No one, including myself, ever said it was you dumb fucking retard.
OH RIGHT! EXCEPT YOU.

TL;DR: The Catalyst attempted to "preserve" organics by killing them and using their body parts for furniture. Over a completely wrong and unproven premise. This is not a sane person's solution. This is not a logical solution. This is the solution of a fucking psycopath.

And yet sane and logical people do the same things every day. Just depends on which "life" you chose to value more than another, again see the gardening analogy.
For a being that is effectively immortal, the lives of beings that will live maybe 20,000 years is not as important as making sure life itself survives.

Of course you are a fucking idiot that can't comprehend abstract thoughts like that.

And you seriously will trust this person to reshape the universe AGAIN? "Oops, sorry, I killed trillions and trillions of people! But I admit I made a mistake! I can make it right now!"

Grow up. You have to ignore about 95% of the onscreen atrocities and divest yourself completely of common sense to even think that Little Hitler deserves any trust or sympathy.

Who said anything about sympathy? You are one dishonest little cunt that keeps trying to put words into peoples mouths.
What was Sheppard supposed to do, you dumb fuck? Just sit there and do nothing?
"Hey, you have ZERO reason to lie about any of this, but I think I'll just sit here and let exactly what I was fighting against happen anyway because I don't trust you because... uh... you may kill me... oh wait... gonna bleed to death... it's an elaborate trap to... kill me... oh wait... it will actually kill all the people in the fleet you sneaky son of a... OH WAIT... YOU ARE GONNA KILL ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE GALAXY... oh wait... well shit... I guess you are telling the truth."

You are an idiot. There is ZERO reason to not believe what the AAI said was true. That is the point that Bioware is trying to get across... the past kept repeating itself, but this time SHEPPARD!!! The cycle is ending because this time there are enough changes/advances/evolution, whatever you want to call it that the cycle is no longer the purvue of the AAI and the Reapers, but up until NOW, it has been.

Can you provide any proof that "Little Hitler" was lying about a single thing he said... or any Reaper for that matter? No seriously... show in any of the three two disc games that what he says is in any way, in doubt?

You have yet to show that the AAI's "completely wrong and unproven premise" is anything of the sort.

You know... thinking about it, and this will make you happy, I'm sure, there is one thing about both Hitler and the Catylist that you can say; They never lied about their intentions, nor their reasons.

[Anacronian]

But there is nothing surefire about that way either as ME 1 proves, Even if the reapers go all ape shit on the galaxy as they usually do somewhere some AI might survive just like the Protheons on Ilos survived the reaper onslaught and a AI probably won't die from the passing of time like they did(if Vigil surved 50.000 so could a AI) - In the game the only surefire way to stop AI's (as far as we know) is the catalyst.

Doesn't the Crucible only work on mass effect based technologies? Since it needs the Citadel to work and all...So that one's not surefire, either. Turns out that during billions of years random variables accumulate out of control and might distrupt any careful plan

Honestly i have no idea how the Crucible works other than it's magic - But the reapers could have build the mass effect relay system and the Citadel like they did and then just make a copy Citadel with a Crucible in someplace unreachable like the galactic core (no collector base is needed) and then just pop in and fire the Crucible whenever needed.

[Havok]

And STOP COMPARING HIM TO HITLER. For fucks sake. Hitler had ZERO basis for what he believed and did, while the AAI, like it or fucking not, had ACTUAL EXPERIENCE about what it was talking about and what it knows will happen. The game presents that evidence in droves.

No, you dickhead. The reason why you're whining is because you were stupid enough to buy the Catalyst's words without questioning it.

Provide ONE valid reason to question it.

If you actually fucking listened to what he said you'd realize what the Catalyst did was nothing but justifying genocide, and using a stupid and racist premise (Synthetics are hard wired to kill organics and vice versa) as though it was unassailable fact.

Do you understand the difference between explain and justify?

He was wrong. You are wrong. Nothing justifies genocide, EVER. It doesn't matter if Hitler "has no basis". Neither did the fucking Catalyst because it's already been shown his premise was complete shit.

Except killing the race that is the Reapers. That is cool right?
And again, premise = complete shit because you say so doesn't fly.
I have shown repeatedly based on IN GAME INFORMATION AND ACTUAL STORY GAME PLAY that the premise is completely fucking valid. Liking or disliking it is another issue, but I don't think you can comprehend that.

And the real reason you want the comparison to stop is because you can't take the fact that you seriously got duped into siding with the Mass Effect version of Hitler. Most of the players pissed at the ending have already figured that out - and that's why the most popular alternate ending isn't "Shepard lives". It's "Fuck Little Hitler even if we die trying to kill him!"

Well, hate to burst your Dumb bubble, but ALL endings kill the Catalyst and the Reapers. I don't think that dumb bubble around you is going anywhere soon though.

You're a fucking moron who needs to actually understand what words mean. Instead of pretending that other people "didn't hear" what you heard; that's just bullshit Wall of Ignorance.

Please. I can actually fathom and comprehend an absence of morality and not just scream HIIIIITLLLLLEEERRRR!!!! when ever anything bad happens in a fictional story.
You have made it abundantly clear that you couldn't comprehend the most basic and general motives and themes that BIOWARE was trying to get across.

Come the fuck on.

[Starglider]

I dont think preferring the mako puts you in the minority.

I read that the Hammerhead was supposed to 'fix' all the complaints people had about the Mako. Except that the Mako actually felt like driving a cumbersome heavy armored vehicle and presented a gameplay challenge, wheras the Mako was an air hockey puck with ridiculously easy missions (due to the auto-tracking unlimited can't-miss completely-outrange-the-enemy missiles).

Do you think they could have spun the finale in a transhumanism way, as a long-running plot to prevent the singularity or whatever? The enemy being (thematically) social conservatism would use been a laugh.

That was a bad idea and even the Bioware writers knew it. The AI-vs-organic issues were given a good treatment in the Geth/Quarian segment, backed up by EDI's stuff (I liked the logs detailing that she was created from the muderous Luna VI in ME1). In fact those bits being good are part of the reason why the ending looked so bad.

As I understand it the original ending prior to the script leak incident involved some sort of dark energy natural catastrophe (thus the Haelstrom dangling plot thread in the final version) and the Reapers being the only solution that a distant past galactic civ could think of to stop it. Your choice was to help the Reapers with their solution or destroy them and find a different solution. This sounds like a much better idea to me, although the general principle of having your earlier choices and war resources actually make a difference is more important than the ending specifics. Scrapping this and replacing it with the crap cribbed from Deus Ex was a mistake; it seems every time BioWare reacts to fans things get worse. Which makes the 'petition for a better ending' an even more hillariously bad idea.

P.S. I chose the 'synthesis' ending because I was hoping it would magically save everyone from a horrible mass die-off. Turned out to just be the 'destruction' ending but the survivors get glowing cyber-goth rave tattos. Still wouldn't chose 'control' even though it results in less immediate deaths and Reapers potentially helping with recovery efforts, because it seems like a giant 'indoctrinate me and continue the cycle please'.

[PeZook]

OH FUCKING REALLY? You think that rag tag fleet was going to stop the Reapers? Did they destroy a single one in space?

Actually...yes?

Turian and Krogan fighters can blow up Reaper destroyers, Turians managed to stop several smaller offensives cold (except the one at Palaven for obvious reasons), the Fifth Fleet murderized Sovereign and its Geth support fleet. A freakin' tresher maw ate a small reaper by itself. Reapers can be wrecked in space just fine.

[Omeganian]

P.S. I chose the 'synthesis' ending because I was hoping it would magically save everyone from a horrible mass die-off. Turned out to just be the 'destruction' ending but the survivors get glowing cyber-goth rave tattos. Still wouldn't chose 'control' even though it results in less immediate deaths and Reapers potentially helping with recovery efforts, because it seems like a giant 'indoctrinate me and continue the cycle please'.

I would prefer it to seem a "final showoff delayed, please prepare for a MMORPG asskicking in a few years, please".

[Havok]

Having organics bend over backwards now to not destroy artificial life after it get created again and then have it start wiping it's creators. Then have the Reapers return to wipe out the synthetics all wearing Alliance badges and being lead by Citadel Shepard would be fun.

Dunno, it seems that the organic vs. synthetic conflict in ME is always born out the organics fearing their creations will rebel: the Geth rebelled out of self-preservation when the Quarians tried to disconnect them, the Protheans wiped their synths out pre-emptively etc.

EDI didn't rebel, not even thought about rebelling, because it was treated as a crewmember, rather than a psycho waiting to go postal. She cared enough to take Joker out on dates, even

Yeah, it is bad writing for sure, but that's why I said, have the organics now go out of their way to not do it, and then have the AI kill them all anyway for XYdumbbiowarereasonZ I was also just fucking kidding. That would be horrible.

But it brings up the point I have been saying on my POV, that this is the first cycle where this has happened.

Also, Javik mentions that the Protheans didn't want to be surpassed by synthetics or something to that effect, so while they may have wiped them out, they may have actually been threatened by them.

This/our cycle is almost a continuation of the Prothean cycle though, so the fact that they didn't get attacked by their synthetics, if that is how it happened, shows progress towards the way this cycle acts. Gotta remember that the AIs that spring up are initially programed with the values of the current culture.

[Anacronian]

People are complaining about the endings being the same and they might be that in some ways ..but i still cant fathom how Bioware plans to continue the franchise with these possible endings.

[Havok]

OH FUCKING REALLY? You think that rag tag fleet was going to stop the Reapers? Did they destroy a single one in space?

Actually...yes?

Turian and Krogan fighters can blow up Reaper destroyers, Turians managed to stop several smaller offensives cold (except the one at Palaven for obvious reasons), the Fifth Fleet murderized Sovereign and its Geth support fleet. A freakin' tresher maw ate a small reaper by itself. Reapers can be wrecked in space just fine.

Okay so the score is 10 to 10,000 Reapers.
And IIRC Garrus says that the Krogans are only slowing the Reapers down on Pavalen, no where near stopping them.

A war of attrition is expected, especially after listening to Javik, but the out come is not in doubt. Like I said, Sheppard even getting to make the decisions he does at the end are by the good graces of the AAI. He actually even says he won't make any of the decisions, but he is giving Sheppard the opportunity because he and the rest of the races in this cycle have proven him wrong... sorry that his system doesn't work anymore...

[Anacronian]

OH FUCKING REALLY? You think that rag tag fleet was going to stop the Reapers? Did they destroy a single one in space?

Actually...yes?

Turian and Krogan fighters can blow up Reaper destroyers, Turians managed to stop several smaller offensives cold (except the one at Palaven for obvious reasons), the Fifth Fleet murderized Sovereign and its Geth support fleet. A freakin' tresher maw ate a small reaper by itself. Reapers can be wrecked in space just fine.

Nitpick
Just wanna point out that the ME 3 CODEX flat out states that sovereign was defeated from sheppy taking down his shields.

.... During the Battle of the Citadel, Sovereign linked its consciousness to Saren's. When Saren's death corrupted the signal and shut down Sovereign's shields, Sovereign's destruction soon followed.

[PeZook]

But it brings up the point I have been saying on my POV, that this is the first cycle where this has happened.

Also, Javik mentions that the Protheans didn't want to be surpassed by synthetics or something to that effect, so while they may have wiped them out, they may have actually been threatened by them.

From what I've seen of him, it sounded more like Prothean arrogance, and again - fear of synthetic life. Hence lobotomized AI (oooh they're not REALLY intelligent! They're VIRTUAL intelligences!), AI shackles etc etc etc.

In other words, organics are assholes who can't comprehend the fact sentient beings, made of metal or not, will resent being slaves

This/our cycle is almost a continuation of the Prothean cycle though, so the fact that they didn't get attacked by their synthetics, if that is how it happened, shows progress towards the way this cycle acts. Gotta remember that the AIs that spring up are initially programed with the values of the current culture.

Yeah...

I really have to wonder why the Reapers are so damn gleeful at the thought of rampaging across the universe, though. It kinda jars with their now-stated purpose that they'd drool at the thought (well, Sovereign and Harbinger at least) of massacrating entire civilizations. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Havok]

Which is much more interesting from a narrative perspective than this insane notion that the Catalyst was right just because it says so.

Or yeah. Either way, Shep's meek and unquestioning behavior is the worst part.

"Oh yeah AI dude I just met, the same who's responsible for killing my friends and wrecking my homeworld, I will do as you say.

No way you're lying just to get me electrocuted!"

As I said... to what end?
Shep is dead if the AI just makes him sit there.
He is shot and bleeding to death. If he attacks THE CITADEL with his pistol, even Act Of Sheppard isn't going to save him.

There is no motive or reasoning for the AAI to lie about anything at that point. He is holding all the cards. There is no real threat from the fleet and you and anyone else that has played the game and listened to the dialogue of all the NPCs knows it. The entire offensive doesn't even happen without the SLIM HOPE of the Crucible doing... something. Other wise, no one commits forces.

[Zinegata]

Provide ONE valid reason to question it.

Are you that much of a fucking moron?

What evidence has the Catalyst shown to prove what it's saying is true? Zero.

Literally, you have to take the AI's word for it. The same fucking AI that mass-murdered trillions of people and claimed that it is saving them.

That you cannot even admit that there is this massive logical fallacy in its line of reasoning - "We will genocide you to save you" - only goes to show what kind of moron you are.

Havok, the Hitler comparisons exist for a reason: He was retard who waged war, committed genocide, based on a shitty premise. The Catalyst is no different. That you accept his explanations despite its blatant parallels with Nazi ideology (right up to using the body parts of your victims as furniture) only demonstrates that you are really that much of a fucking moron who can't admit he was duped.

It was a shitty ending that condoned a mass-murderer. Pezook rightly says "maybe they can fix it from a narrative perspective and make us understand why he's a fucked up Catalyst", but you are actually seriously arguing that the Catalyst is right.

Therefore you are arguing Genocide is right. And that makes you nothing more than scum on the same level as the Nazis.

[Havok]

OH FUCKING REALLY? You think that rag tag fleet was going to stop the Reapers? Did they destroy a single one in space?

Actually...yes?

Turian and Krogan fighters can blow up Reaper destroyers, Turians managed to stop several smaller offensives cold (except the one at Palaven for obvious reasons), the Fifth Fleet murderized Sovereign and its Geth support fleet. A freakin' tresher maw ate a small reaper by itself. Reapers can be wrecked in space just fine.

Nitpick
Just wanna point out that the ME 3 CODEX flat out states that sovereign was defeated from sheppy taking down his shields.

.... During the Battle of the Citadel, Sovereign linked its consciousness to Saren's. When Saren's death corrupted the signal and shut down Sovereign's shields, Sovereign's destruction soon followed.

Oh the Codex.

But yeah, exactly.

[PeZook]

As I said... to what end?
Shep is dead if the AI just makes him sit there.
He is shot and bleeding to death. If he attacks THE CITADEL with his pistol, even Act Of Sheppard isn't going to save him.

The dude has personally murdered Reapers before and fought like half the galaxy on his way here and is sitting next to some important equipment. A Collector cruiser shot him and blew him up and he just came back like nothing happened.

Oh also he's up to his eyeballs in implants, so who the fuck knows what he's capable of?

If I was the little brat and wanted to continue the cycle, I'd sure as hell want him dead right now, rather than...maybe...in half an hour

Of course we do know the AI didn't lie, but Shepples never for half a second doubts it.

[Zinegata]

Actually, based on the wiki the Protheans actually never genocided any synthetics. They were attacked by some external synthetic race (again proving that the created-creator theory was fucknuts), so they decided to band together the races of the galaxy under one empire:

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Protheans

Eventually, the Protheans faced a hostile machine intelligence called the Zha'til which threatened to overwhelm them. To defeat the Zha'til, the Protheans decided to unite all of the galaxy's sentient organic life under their empire. Organic races that resisted the Protheans were soundly crushed. In time, each of the servant races assimilated into Prothean culture and came to think of themselves as Prothean. The Prothean Empire held its own against the Zha'til in a conflict known as the "Metacon War".

At some point the Protheans learned of the existence of the Reapers and their cycles of galactic destruction through studying the ruins of other extinguished civilizations. Several countermeasures were devised, including the Crucible, which was based on designs left behind by previous civilizations. In the event that the Reapers prevailed, the Protheans also began extensive observation of primitive species such as the asari, hanar, humans, salarians, and turians; it was hoped that some Protheans would survive the Reapers' purge and go on to unite these species to create a new empire.

But nooo. Sure, let's trust the genocidal little Hitler that he's not actually just trying to mass-murder every race in the galaxy for shits and giggles. He's just mass-murdering us to save us.

And bluntly, let's not forget that the implication of ME1 and ME2 is that the Reapers are actually just harvesting us for food.

[PeZook]

Oh the Codex.

But yeah, exactly.

Oh...man.

Good that I only read the codex once in ME1, because that's stupid. Also it means Reaper capital ships suck

"Oh man I remote controlled a dude and when he was shot full of holes my primary defensive system shut down."

[Omeganian]

Nitpick
Just wanna point out that the ME 3 CODEX flat out states that sovereign was defeated from sheppy taking down his shields.

.... During the Battle of the Citadel, Sovereign linked its consciousness to Saren's. When Saren's death corrupted the signal and shut down Sovereign's shields, Sovereign's destruction soon followed.

Oh the Codex.

But yeah, exactly.

During the space battle, we can see a Reaper Dreadnaught having a couple of tentacles blasted off, although it's still firing. Around 2:15

[Zinegata]

There is no motive or reasoning for the AAI to lie about anything at that point. He is holding all the cards.

No, and you're a goddamn moron for thinking that.

Again, the option the AI likes the least? "Destroy the Reapers". Which he warns will just result in the (bullshit) cycle continuing again.

It was in real danger of being totally beaten the moment the Crucible docked and it's trying to convince Shep not to blow it up, which the Crucible can actually totally do. It's instead trying to make Shep choose a different option wherein the Reapers will survive - and really, do you think Shep can maintain control of the Reapers forever? That there won't be more "Chaos" because all life is now half-organic/synth?

A cynic would simply point out that all Shep did in the Control and Synthesis ending was make the Reapers fall back and regroup. No guarantee that they won't be back for another round of OMNOMNOM in 50,000 years because they need to make baby reapers (like the human Reaper they were trying to make in ME2)

[Omeganian]

There is no motive or reasoning for the AAI to lie about anything at that point. He is holding all the cards.

No, and you're a goddamn moron for thinking that.

Again, the option the AI likes the least? "Destroy the Reapers". Which he warns will just result in the (bullshit) cycle continuing again.

It was in real danger of being totally beaten the moment the Crucible docked and it's trying to convince Shep not to blow it up, which the Crucible can actually totally do. It's instead trying to make Shep choose a different option wherein the Reapers will survive - and really, do you think Shep can maintain control of the Reapers forever? That there won't be more "Chaos" because all life is now half-organic/synth?

A cynic would simply point out that all Shep did in the Control and Synthesis ending was make the Reapers fall back and regroup. No guarantee that they won't be back for another round of OMNOMNOM in 50,000 years because they need to make baby reapers (like the human Reaper they were trying to make in ME2)

The Catalyst did open doors before Shepard and Anderson. It helped them get there and dock the Crucible.

[Zinegata]

How is it contradictory? It depends on what you define as "life". If you save the DNA, you can recreate the species later using biomedical tech, so if your value system doesn't put any value in individuals (which the Reapers OBVIOUSLY don't, since they fuck individuals up in all sorts of gruesome ways) it's perfectly logical to save organic life as nothing but a massive DNA sample.

If they're just after the DNA then they can just flash-freeze a sample.

But don't forget that in ME2 they're actively trying to make a new "Human" Reaper using human parts. And that the Collectors are essentially a failed Prothean Reaper because they couldn't make the quad DNA thing work with their system.

Even worse, what do the Reapers do when the Collector Base is about to blow up? Do they go rescue the Collectors? Preserve their DNA? Nope, they actually cut the link to the Collectors and say they're no longer necessary. They leave them for dead.

That is not the actions of a race that is interested in "preserving" organic life.

That honestly looks more like the actions of a bunch of genocidal assholes who want to eat most life in the galaxy as part of their mating cycle. And their reason for leaving less developed races behind is so that they will have more food to eat again in 50,000 years.