StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Very true. Cruiser captains are especially vulnerable. In my phoenix I would regularly get multiple citadel penetrations on the same target (usually killing them by the third or fourth), while they would just pepper me with HE. A bit harder to do that in the Omaha, though, since it seems everyone suddenly learned how to dodge.

People seem not to notice how easy it is to shift ammo types, just like about 30% of my team every single round doesn't grasp that charging the enemy with a ship that doesn't even have torpedoes is useless.

Yeah, and with the new commander ability that speeds up ammo switching there's really no reason to stick to any single ammo type for the majority of a match, even in battleships.

But as with any Wargaming product (or MMOs in general) you could be yelling this into the ears of your teammates directly and a sufficiently significant percent of them will either ignore you out of spite or fail to understand what you are saying at all.

Just today when I recommended to a friendly Kongo that he use armor piercing (was clearly firing HE), his response was that AP is worse because it almost never causes fires and that somehow fires result in more damage than actually penetrating the enemy BB's armor. Shortly later he got wiped out in a handful of salvos due to well-aimed citadel penetrations from an enemy New York. He whined about cheating then left the match.

Does range affect AP round pen heavily? I play Cruisers primarily, and tend to spam HE at ranges beyond 9KM where it's mostly plunging, random fire. At any closer ranges, flatter trajectories work better of course for AP hits.

As well, I wonder if it's prudent to just stick to HE when attacking a BB using a cruiser. I don't feel like my little 5 or 6 inchers are going to pen any BB...

At long ranges plunging fire is ideal for AP, since deck armor even on BBs is generally weak. I find against most cruisers that plunging fire is wasted with AP due to the smaller target presented. I usually fire AP at cruisers around 6-7km or so when the trajectory starts being good for side shots. At the same distance, I switch to HE if I am facing BBs.

It also depends on target orientation. For tail chases or bow shots I usually use HE as the chances of a citadel penetration are low. And of course it depends what I'm firing on but that just brings up further technicalities. So much for general rules, eh?

This is of course assuming cruiser gameplay.

Yep, generally you are best starting as many fires as you can when facing a battleship in a cruiser - unless the enemy captain is good, it can be very unnerving to have your entire boat be on fire/burning to the waterline.

Even more so when you finally reach the Cleveland and can just rain HE down on everything.

As for AP, I think it has more to do with the angle the shells strike than any effective range - I have managed citadel hits at 18km with my New York before...it's not easy and you require an obscene amount of luck, but it is doable.

I'm actually having some decent games with the South Carolina. The 1st IJN BB however... I can spit further than those guns

wautd wrote:I'm actually having some decent games with the South Carolina. The 1st IJN BB however... I can spit further than those guns

That said, I just got hte Wyoming and it appears to be much better

Vendetta wrote:To be fair at tier 4 you can sealclub everyone by simple dint of not firing HE and getting big fat citadel penetrations whilst they're whaffing a thousand damage a time if they're lucky.

Since I assume they don't model how the fuzes on WWI armor-piercing shot would just fail and have the shell blow up outside armor it could theoretically penetrate, this would tend to be a rewarding tactic... at least, assuming you don't end up firing vainly at an enemy who's in their immune zone against your guns.

Imperial528 wrote:At long ranges plunging fire is ideal for AP, since deck armor even on BBs is generally weak. I find against most cruisers that plunging fire is wasted with AP due to the smaller target presented. I usually fire AP at cruisers around 6-7km or so when the trajectory starts being good for side shots. At the same distance, I switch to HE if I am facing BBs.

Why do you switch to HE in that situation? Flat trajectory meaning that you can't get a hit on a deck?

Coaan wrote:As for AP, I think it has more to do with the angle the shells strike than any effective range - I have managed citadel hits at 18km with my New York before...it's not easy and you require an obscene amount of luck, but it is doable.

Historically, the main things determining penetration were, yes, angle of impact and the thickness of the armor compared to the penetrating power of the shell.

The catch is that the angle of impact is in large part determined by the range.

With tanks, everyone's on the ground firing on flat trajectories, so the angle of impact is determined by which way the target is pointing, and on the vertical slope or lack thereof of the armor. You don't have to worry about shots coming down from high angles and hitting the top armor, at least not normally (SPGs are an exception in World of Tanks, obviously)

With real warships, the ranges are long enough that shells can be coming in at damn near a forty-five degree angle on a high, arcing parabolic trajectory. Since the deck of a battleship is horizontal and the armor belt is necessarily near-vertical, that means the rounds nearly always hit at a 45 degree angle... but by the nature of things the deck armor can't be more than a few inches thick, so the shells tend to punch through very easily.

So while range is not directly affecting penetration, or is reducing your penetrating power as the shell loses velocity... the indirect effect is huge and if anything beneficial. Long range hits are more likely, hit for hit, to strike deck armor and pierce it. Whereas firing at short range into the enemy's armor belt is not as effective as penetrating the deck, until you get to improbable, knife-fighting ranges at which torpedoes make a battleship engagement suicidal anyway.

Of course, none of this factors in cruiser-on-battleship (where realistically no 6" or 8" gun is going to penetrate the armored parts of a battleship at any range) or battleship-on-cruiser (where realistically any 12" or larger-caliber gun will penetrate any armor on any part of a cruiser at any angle, regardless of range).

Also, it doesn't factor in the fact that your hit rate drops off drastically at long range because after you fire the gun the enemy may easily have a full minute or more to get out of the way before the shell lands on them. Even if you lead the target, they can just turn and throw you off, although this also screws up their own gunnery.

I suspect that World of Warships models all of this from what I've heard, except maybe the part where turning your ship throws off your own gunnery. And they might even model that.

Simon_Jester wrote:Why do you switch to HE in that situation? Flat trajectory meaning that you can't get a hit on a deck?

Yes, mostly. Generally AP on a flat trajectory against a battleship either hits and overpenetrates the superstructure, or it hits the turrets and bounces off their armor. Both cases almost always result in little to no damage.

wautd wrote:I'm actually having some decent games with the South Carolina. The 1st IJN BB however... I can spit further than those guns

Unlike many here, I actually found the South Carolina to be quite fun. But the Kawachi I found to be a better BS. Yeah, it's one of the only things that the South Carolina can out range, but I preferred the Kawachi thanks to it's gun setup. When you have to shift from firing from one broadside to the other, the Kawachi can start putting half it's broadside firepower down range almost immediately. This has saved my ass in the past, and it's something I kind of miss on all the other BS's.

How can you group your shots/shoot all guns all at once instead of firing one by one?

And how on earth are you supposed to Phoenix? Long range sniper? Because in torp range it's dead thanks to its paper armor

I need to get in a division, squadron, whatever they are calling it. Solo mode just doesn't hold much appeal to me right now.

The Phoenix is a medium-long-range dancer. USE that speed and maneuverability to make yourself a nightmare to hit. Dance, boy, DANCE and rain fires on everything you can reach. Your torps are to make people keep their distance or if you can ambush someone around an island or punish someone chasing you around and island or something.

wautd wrote:How can you group your shots/shoot all guns all at once instead of firing one by one?

If you double-click it fires all guns that are currently aimed at the cursor.

The tenryu, Omaha and Phoenix to me play the same: support the destroyers, shot at anything that is in range, and don't close for a torpedo run unless the enemy closes to you or there are other friendlies drawing fire. Otherwise just keep moving at medium long range. You can afford to waste some shots since the reload is so fast and on the US cruisers most of the guns are on either side so you don't lose firepower if you have to do a 180.

I love the Phoenix and Omaha.

Phoenix needs a few upgrades as it's starting 3 guns do not cut it. But you'll double those with upgrades, and can snipe out to 13km which is huge at that tier.
You can chase down and annihilate destroyers, or torpedo targets of opportunity that gets close. Don't go into fights looking to torpedo, but it's a useful trick when you can. Wiggle a bunch to evade fire while you pelt enemy BBs and DDs with HE rounds, or enemy Cruisers with AP rounds. Spam shots and keep evading, as your own motion barely affects the number of guns you can bear.

I'd still say the Murmansk remains my favorite ship to troll around in. Fast firing guns, you can get a decent amount of firepower going down the forward arc just by twitching slightly side-to-side, and the torps are a useful last-resort sort of thing. Not to mention the thing has insane range for a cruiser, especially if you use your scout.

Think its something like 15 kilometers with said scout, IIRC.

Well, I picked it up. So far I'm 2-1 on the Hashidate, 0-1 with the Erie. First battle with the Hashidate was silly, didn't land a single shot I don't think. Second was a bit more fun. With the Erie, well, I still can't read the map but I think I ran afoul of a South Carolina or something there...

'Shift' doesn't bring up a Binoculars View for me, though? And when you zoom in, does that go by default to your front guns?

Yeah, once upgraded I'm starting to dig the Phoenix as well

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:I'd still say the Murmansk remains my favorite ship to troll around in. Fast firing guns, you can get a decent amount of firepower going down the forward arc just by twitching slightly side-to-side, and the torps are a useful last-resort sort of thing. Not to mention the thing has insane range for a cruiser, especially if you use your scout.

Think its something like 15 kilometers with said scout, IIRC.

Ghetto EDIT: Correction, it's 18 kilometers with the scout. For a T5 cruiser, that's pretty good I would think. Though I'm only just getting to my first non-Prem T5 cruiser though, so I could be wrong.

Random query. When you get sunk, is there any way to 'respawn'? If not, does going back to your port affect your final score in any way?

Elheru Aran wrote:Random query. When you get sunk, is there any way to 'respawn'? If not, does going back to your port affect your final score in any way?

No, and no. Unless you want to watch the outcome of the match, just go back to port and play a different ship

OK then!

Are British and (maybe) German ships going to show up anytime soon? French? Spanish?

I guess that's just part of the whole still being in beta thing though...

I saw a picture of a submarine a while ago, are they going to include those at some point?

As far as I know the next tree is the Russian tree and after that the Brits gets their tree, Nothing more have been said so far at least nothing could find.