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The Crusader struck me as being really similar to the T-34-57. Perfectly capable but totally overshadowed by the awesome Covenanter and Cromwell that surround it.

Also, woo! Third place in the tier 4 veterans day challenge.

xthetenth wrote:The Crusader struck me as being really similar to the T-34-57. Perfectly capable but totally overshadowed by the awesome Covenanter and Cromwell that surround it.

I was peronally not impressed with the Covenanter. Yeah, it has that "boom boom boom boom" thing where it can sneak up on someone and unleash a big strike from point-blank range, but that's the only mode of attack that I found to be effective in that tank; it seemed too one-dimensional to me. While I trash the Crusader a bit, I do find it preferable to the Covenanter. I'm just hoping I will enjoy the Cromwell more.

The Cromwell is a fun, capable flanker. The gun grind can be hell once the matchmaker gets into fuck-the-T6-med gear, but it's worth it. The final gun is a nasty little bastard, combined with absurd dash speed and awesome agility. It's a little lacking in acceleration, but it's not something worth complaining about. Once you get the Cromwell fully upgraded, it's a terror. I'd call it the best tank of it's tier, flat out.

That's a pretty bold claim, given that there's plenty of competition for the title, with the well-balanced VK3601 and the over-gunned KV-1S at the same tier. Hell, I've seen T-150s which successfully held up entire groups of enemy tanks trying to move up on one flank, thanks to their armour and the 107mm gun.

The Cromwell's extremely fast and has a good gun. But don't discount the E8 so easily. It's godlike -12 degree Gun Depression allows it to get into so many better firing positions. The height of the tank is even an asset with the way most maps are laid out and their hull down spots. Being capable of equipping a Vert Stab also helps a hell of a lit.

I got the Cromwell, but can't reproduce the same runaway success I had with the E8 sadly.

xthetenth wrote:The Crusader struck me as being really similar to the T-34-57. Perfectly capable but totally overshadowed by the awesome Covenanter and Cromwell that surround it.

I personally think the Crusader doesn't hold up as well against the T-34/57 because its ability to engage at range is a lot more limited. The T-34 still has the same issue in that it shoots faster than it aims but the ZiS-4's significantly better accuracy means the T-34 is a lot more capable of standing back and plinking, and maybe bouncing a few shots with its sloped armor, in situations where there aren't opportunities to exploit gaps in the enemy line - and when there are it can do about as well as the Crusader, while the Crusader has to exploit those, or else isn't able to do as much. So I haven't completely warmed to the Crusader yet, though I've had a couple of good battles, including one in which I stood in the first line against Tier 6s, shot them in the face, and survived the battle while expending almost all of my ammunition. One battle doesn't exactly make a pattern, though.

On another note, the Valentine is a very odd little tank. On paper it should suck due to its guns having absolutely terrible rates of fire (4.5s reload for the 6-pdrs, and equivalent DPM for the 75mm) but somehow I keep having awesome battles in it.

Scottish Ninja wrote:
On another note, the Valentine is a very odd little tank. On paper it should suck due to its guns having absolutely terrible rates of fire (4.5s reload for the 6-pdrs, and equivalent DPM for the 75mm) but somehow I keep having awesome battles in it.

I'm having terrible battles with my Valentine, keep getting both tracks blown off like this is beta again. And yes the guns are terrible, not until you get the 75mm do you have a reliable pen gun. Nothing more embarrassing then going front to front with a standard M4 and being completely unable to penetrate him anywhere while you sit there with both tracks blown off.

The Valentine is really a mislabeled heavy tank with small profile.
Play it as such.

ryacko wrote:The Valentine is really a mislabeled heavy tank with small profile.
Play it as such.

Yes officially it's a "light" tank... problem is sometimes you get light tank matchups. Lord help you in the Tier 7 battles where it's you VS an A-20 and the heaps of Tier 5,6 and 7s.

I personally ran the Valentine with the long 6 pounder just to get every scrap of penetration I could.

Darth Wong wrote:That's a pretty bold claim, given that there's plenty of competition for the title, with the well-balanced VK3601 and the over-gunned KV-1S at the same tier. Hell, I've seen T-150s which successfully held up entire groups of enemy tanks trying to move up on one flank, thanks to their armour and the 107mm gun.

The Cromwell seemed to have displaced the Hellcat as the only non KV-1S tank other than Grilles in medium companies. It's amazing. The sheer speed and maneuverability mean it can do a lot of things very well that are very hard to reproduce in other tanks. I think the stats actually back this up too, it seemed to be overperforming.

Darth Wong wrote:

xthetenth wrote:The Crusader struck me as being really similar to the T-34-57. Perfectly capable but totally overshadowed by the awesome Covenanter and Cromwell that surround it.

I was peronally not impressed with the Covenanter. Yeah, it has that "boom boom boom boom" thing where it can sneak up on someone and unleash a big strike from point-blank range, but that's the only mode of attack that I found to be effective in that tank; it seemed too one-dimensional to me. While I trash the Crusader a bit, I do find it preferable to the Covenanter. I'm just hoping I will enjoy the Cromwell more.

I got some sniping use out of it too if I took the time to sight in, but yes, it's a close range ambush predator, it's just so good and has such good maneuverability and depression it hardly needs more. I ground through it solo and still have a great win rate and was one of the keys to our success in the Veteran's tournament with that thing. The only thing that really messed that tank up was hetzers, and the only team we lost to was nearly all hetzers. Everything else I was averaging stupid numbers like 500 damage dealt in a 5v5 tourney with excellent players.

Scottish Ninja wrote:

xthetenth wrote:The Crusader struck me as being really similar to the T-34-57. Perfectly capable but totally overshadowed by the awesome Covenanter and Cromwell that surround it.

I personally think the Crusader doesn't hold up as well against the T-34/57 because its ability to engage at range is a lot more limited. The T-34 still has the same issue in that it shoots faster than it aims but the ZiS-4's significantly better accuracy means the T-34 is a lot more capable of standing back and plinking, and maybe bouncing a few shots with its sloped armor, in situations where there aren't opportunities to exploit gaps in the enemy line - and when there are it can do about as well as the Crusader, while the Crusader has to exploit those, or else isn't able to do as much. So I haven't completely warmed to the Crusader yet, though I've had a couple of good battles, including one in which I stood in the first line against Tier 6s, shot them in the face, and survived the battle while expending almost all of my ammunition. One battle doesn't exactly make a pattern, though.

I'd personally say the ability to troll on hills with the Crusader's gun depression and general zippiness make it pretty even with the T-34-57, which is very much a flat land tank, which can be crippling at exactly the wrong times.

I agree that unusually good elevation is a great thing, but to really take advantage of it, one must take the time to study the maps and learn all the good spots. I understand that this can be important, but to be honest, I just can't be bothered to study maps in detail. I'm reasonably familiar with the maps, but I don't take the time to learn all sorts of ideal spots for various tactics. As a result, I tend to prefer the primary characteristics such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability, armour, and firepower.

Yeah, that's understandable. However, the T-34's is bad enough that it has a reasonable chance to actively screw you over if you aren't a bit careful.

The real trick is to just avoid going up a steep hill to snipe over the crest- if you have an instinct to do that it's a problem; if not, it's really not an issue.

Darth Wong wrote:I agree that unusually good elevation is a great thing, but to really take advantage of it, one must take the time to study the maps and learn all the good spots. I understand that this can be important, but to be honest, I just can't be bothered to study maps in detail. I'm reasonably familiar with the maps, but I don't take the time to learn all sorts of ideal spots for various tactics. As a result, I tend to prefer the primary characteristics such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability, armour, and firepower.

I'm very much in the same boat, but I'm finding the Crusader an enjoyable little machine despite everything. It's a medium with no armour, so it's forcing me to learn how to medium. I'm probably keeping it after I get the Cromwell just to scoot around maps in.

On a side note, fuck the endless waves of KV-1S. Can we get their narrow turret and 75/L70 removed and sent to premium please?

I find the Crusader superior to both the M7 and T-34, both of which I've driven. They've all got very comparable guns, with the slight quirks of each mostly evening out. None of them have effective armor.

M7's slight advantage in speed and T-34's slight advantage in RoF I find generally negated by Crusader's superior camo factor, and better hull down capabilities. Speed's real purpose in a medium is to allow it to utilize a flanking position, and Crusader's got more options than the other two. Especially with it's particularly low profile.

Simon_Jester wrote:The real trick is to just avoid going up a steep hill to snipe over the crest- if you have an instinct to do that it's a problem; if not, it's really not an issue.

That it is, but if I remember the T-34 right the lack of gun depression is enough that it can have problems with gentle rolls in the terrain, which are much harder to avoid, while the Crusader's gun depression allows a lot more flexibility. The T-34 is great but its performance is harmed by terrain, which is one of medium tanks' great allies.

Vanas wrote:On a side note, fuck the endless waves of KV-1S. Can we get their narrow turret and 75/L70 removed and sent to premium please?

KV-1S and 75/L70? do you by any chance mean the new PzIV S?
I haven't seen al that many of those up to now. That is on the EU server though.

He's talking about the KV-1S and saying it needs the PZ 4 treatment. I agree that it needs something done, the gun's an infuriating random engine of occasional destruction. It's inaccurate, aims slowly but can two shot most any tank and is why medium companies are preposterous bullshit. Sure it's effective, but there is nothing fun about one or two Grilles, two or three hellcats/Cromwells and the rest of the points being KV-1S spam. That tank kills competitive play on tier six. It's somehow worse in low point tourneys since two bad rolls can cost a better team the game. Maybe if it got a gun with less than twice the alpha of same tier tank destroyers it wouldn't ruin competitive play in that tier.

Nooooo, don't neuter my KV-1S. I love that thing.

Darth Wong wrote:Nooooo, don't neuter my KV-1S. I love that thing.

DOOOOOOM!! :p

I've only been playing for a couple months and I already have a healthy dislike for the damn thing.

Oh, okay, that's alright you just go ahead a one/two shot my goddamn 3601 while I casually bounce rounds and not even break a sweat in the process because I'm to busy exploding!!

Lowest armor of any tier 6 heavy my ass...

I've only been playing for a short time so maybe I'm over-reacting, but is it normal to be more worried about the kv-1s's that make up the bulk of the enemy team than some tier 7/8 tanks?!

I really wouldn't mind the KV-122 becoming the KV-100 with better soft stats. It'd unruin so many things for competitive play at tier 6. I basically gave up on that tier after losing a tournament to three bad rolls because the KV-1S dominates the metagame and is painfully RNG based. The pen is obnoxious but it's the alpha that makes it so infuriating to deal with.

The KV-1S has such soft armor.

But then again, I have a thing for tier 7 and up, or tier 4 and down. The only exception is m Ram-II, which if played properly, cannot be penned, or could pen anything (via suicide rush).

The KV-1S turret can and will bounce exactly enough to screw you. It's infuriating.

Personally I'm finding myself enjoying the T-150 (even with just the 85mm). People really underrate this tank IMO.

Panther, with top gun, I friggin love you:


Battle: Murovanka Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:48:52 PM
Vehicle: PzKpfw V Panther
Experience received: 1,950 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 24,187
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"