Homebrew tabletop game system thread the II

[Simon_Jester]

IC:

Phew!

Larric's worst fear of the moment was that the party would get roped into some political gambit without at least an opportunity to communicate with Sir Detrick. Hopefully there will be one now.

He might not be the man we want to give custody of Radulf to, but damn sure we shouldn't make up our mind about that before we ever meet him.

OOC:

Let me see if I can give you a coherent answer to that...

Costing fields of magic the same as attributes would be an intuitive and sound thing to do, but for one big problem- they all start at zero and for the overwhelming majority of people remain there, so what does "below average" mean? What's "Supernatural"? The whole learning, raising and deriving mechanism for attributes doesn't really apply to them.

The alternative, they way it works at the moment, leads to big numbers for magic- mages gain in power quickly- which I'd like to throttle back on, but I'm still struggling to find an elegant rule to do it by.

Essentially at the moment, fields are treated as a skill too, just one that costs twice as much- so to take Wits from say 4 to 6, two levels, normally 1/2 point ea, doubles, so 1 point per, 2 points total. from 8 to 9, normally 1 point each, so in this case 2....
aah, this is a knock on effect of an earlier rules change that hasn't been properly accounted for. Only just realised that. Well proofread.

Essentially, it used to be that the rate at which skills got more expensive was a flat constant across all characters and attributes, going up in blocks of 8, instead of as it is now tied to the attribute and skill default. I forgot to revise that part of the system when I made the change.

I was wondering about that.

A flat cost for magic would make sense, it's not dumb or unreasonable. You could keep it- you just have to explain that you're doing it.

You could also slightly pump up the costs, to bring them more into line so that mages don't become too powerful too fast.

Right, major rule change for learning magic. Tie it more closely to the existing attributes; if it is bought and paid for as an attribute from now on it would actually rise too slowly, but- taking the average for each group of attributes- all being human so this would be easier-
below the normal minimum costs one point per level;
from there to the normal average costs two XP to raise per point in the field;
from the normal average to the normal maximum costs three XP per level to raise,
beyond the normal maximum physical attribute for the race in that group, four XP per point in the field.

All right, but what do you mean by "each group of attributes?" Do you mean the attributes I actually have as a character, or the racial attributes (5-15 for humans with an average of 10?) Do you group the attributes by physical/mental/social, and then assign each magic-attribute to a corresponding cluster?

(Say, "Martial arts" magic is tied to your physicality, and so orcs have a higher 'average' in it than humans, while "Wits" magic is tied to your mind and so orcs have a lower average in it than humans?)

Improving skill is now done as if the controlling field of magic was indeed an attribute, with a (nonexistent) default.

It's a bit of an improvisation, but it feels more or less on the spot- follows in from the rest of the stats, allows growtrh at a good but not too fast rate. Go with that for the moment and see how it does go.

[puts his rules lawyer hat on]

The rule change- it freezes! It burns!

How am I to calculate the XP cost of raising a skill without knowing the default?

For example, if my Agility score is 8, my default Crossbow skill is 3, it costs 1/2 point per level to raise to 6, and 1 point per level to raise to 12. This much I know and understand- the numbers are N, 2N, 4N, and so on.

But all those numbers are scaled to the default of 3. If my Wits-Magic score is 8, and my default score is... nonexistent... then what's N? N is not a number, or N is zero, either way the XP allocation mechanic breaks down.

To clarify, let us not say that the default score for magic is nonexistent. Let us say rather that magical abilities cannot be used 'untrained,' even if theoretically you have a skill score in them by virtue of the default.

There might be some other skills for which this is true, physical or mental abilities that an untrained person simply cannot employ to any good effect- but I can't think of them off the top of my head, so maybe it's better to avoid the issue.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

My brain is obviously not firing on all lobes today, I'm not sure I should try to answer this. Here goes anyway.

what do you mean by "each group of attributes?" Do you mean the attributes I actually have as a character, or the racial attributes (5-15 for humans with an average of 10?) Do you group the attributes by physical/mental/social, and then assign each magic-attribute to a corresponding cluster?

(Say, "Martial arts" magic is tied to your physicality, and so orcs have a higher 'average' in it than humans, while "Wits" magic is tied to your mind and so orcs have a lower average in it than humans?)

-

good question, actually- with a belated answer that I need to post for other reasons too. The fields of magic are already grouped like that.

From the original document;

The system is based on a relatively open-form concept of what are effectively attributes, often referred to as powers, with skills, usually four to six, associated with them. There are no spells as such, only acts of magic.

The attributes are associates with the groups of normal attributes every character possesses, and contribute to the aspect totals;
Under Spirit, there are the Passions- Happiness, Entity, Fire, Water, Insight
and the Conjunctions- Misery, Shadow, Dream, Doubt, Divination

For the Mental group of attributes, there are
Wits- Light, Martial Arts by Guile, Air, Substance, Ethereal, Vision
and Ponderances- Sense, Void, Creation, Time, Consequences, Astral

and Physical,
Forces – Martial Arts by Strength, Fauna, Earth, Death
Talents – Martial Arts by Agility, Flora, Motion, Life, Shape

Attached to the totalities of being there are those forms of magic which do not fit in any particular aspect-
Divine magic (of the appropriate god- see the separate Deities sheet),
Higher Sorcery- Induction, Adjunct, Enchantment, Antimagic, Summoning
Dominions- Law, Chaos, Good, Evil, Fate
For certain particular types of being, divine magic is replaced by Creature Powers- what is appropriate to a particular magic entity.

Euphemism alert; some things are deliberately misnamed- ‘entity’ is a polite, don’t-frighten-the-villagers misnomer for Demonological magic, ‘shadow’ likewise for Necromancy, ‘vision’ for clairvoyance, ‘adjunct’ for go-faster stripes, ‘substance’ is basically transmutation, ‘consequences’ is understanding and locally altering physical law; ‘astral’ is the reductionist form of spirit projection-things as their component parts, ‘ethereal’ is the holist- all elements of one interconnected unity,

Restrictions; apart from reasons such as finding someone prepared to teach you, some magics cannot be effectively grasped by those of lesser talent at all. There is a minimum power of 11 required in one other field before a character can being to learn any Higher Sorcery, 17 for Creation, Substance, Time and Consequences, 24 for any of the Dominions except Fate, 30 for Astral, Ethereal, Dream and Doubt.

This setup is a revision of a previous arrangement which functioned in a similar way, but had no connection to the other attributes of the character. It can still be found among certain older characters, and I have now reinterpreted the difference as a real break in the tradition of magic that probably came with the fall of the Black Towers.

The last bit-

Improving skill is now done as if the controlling field of magic was indeed an attribute, with a (nonexistent) default.

was clumsily worded.

Cost it as if there was a default- but start buying up from zero. That was what I meant, and should have said that to begin with. Does that make more sense now?

[Simon_Jester]

Yes, now it makes sense. Thank you.

When you talk about a power rating, what do you mean? If I need a power of, say, 11 to learn something, do I need an 11 in a single one of the six magic ability scores, such as Wits? Or in some individual skill score such as Air?

[Feralgnoll]

I drop the odd one's leg off in front of the party. Sit cock my head to the side and wag my tail happily.

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Hmm.

[rolls d20 against bastard child of Logic and Creativity that I use to model Larric's general intelligence sometimes]

IC:

Larric's a city boy, who isn't that good at telling one doglike creature from another. He's seen Rohal's wolf form before, but not for that long, and he doesn't know the wolf form's distinguishing characteristics well. He does not, at first, put two and two together and get "four-legged friend." His response will have to be a reaction off something else.

Is William around? Eliska? Maybe even Alfred?

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Yes, they are- and Tamarin is also there. She makes an instant connection- 'If, ah, if he's with you, then you have a way to get a message to Detrick relatively easily, and without having to trust the war goddess to do it.'

If there is any blankness, she'll point out 'How fast do wolves run?'

[Rules notes, the score referred to for the requirements is the magic ability score, not the skill.]

[Kaelan]

Good thing William use to be a chicken farmer!

"mr snuggles - what have we said about bringing back bad food?"

To the priests "he's quite fast - do you have a scent he can track?"

William doesn't want to reveal who the wolf is just yet, one problem is enough at the moment.

[Simon_Jester]

I knew chicken farming would come in handy!

Larric keeps parchment/paper handy (dunno which is dominant in this society); he'll start drafting a message rather quickly. Just the basic facts.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

More geography; the northern edge of the county is formed by the Silverroot Mountains, which form an arc, the county on the concave side. There are two outliers- the giant Mount Honeycomb, which you passed on the way here, and the Orhan Hills to the north- east of Qulan, the lake Qulan sits on the shore of is largely formed by water from them.

The Orhan Hills are steep and sharp and probably qualify as mountains really, but between them and the Silverroot proper is broken land, lower lying, green in parts only- tumbled odd rocky spaces, sharp cliffs and valleys, ideal bandity country.

It's into the badlands that Detrick is known to have gone- and incidentally where Baron deVerett went in search of the hidden fortress (couldn't resist that reference); Tamarin can find you something.

[Kaelan]

I guess the next pc rally cry is now "to the hills"

Any chance that we're going to ask for pay this time?

[Feralgnoll]

"mr snuggles - what have we said about bringing back bad food?"
.

OOC: I literally lol'ed for a bit.

IC: Rohal wags his tail and nudges the Odd one's leg towards Larric. Looking at him, looking at it, looking at him, looking at it... then will sit next to William.

[Simon_Jester]

IC:

Larric finishes that note. Something along the lines of:

_________ ___, 42_*

Dear Sir Lautern:

I write this from the castle in Qulan, to tell you that a band of raiders from Carfax attacked Coroghan. We first saw their leader, Sir Ranulf, as he was trying to burn a woman at the stake, by the name of Catarin. They said she was a witch. With some help from Sir Alfred, myself, and our four companions, the yeomen saved her, beat the raiders, and captured Ranulf. We have brought Ranulf to the court in Qulan. We imagine you will have many pointed questions you would like to ask him about how he came to be raiding these lands.

We and our prisoner have been granted hospitality by ________**, priestess of Chelet. Matters seem uncertain, and I fear that if these troubles are not attended, they could get out of hand quickly.

I hope you will forgive us for the unusual way this letter was delivered. We wanted to tell you as fast as we could.

Yours Sincerely,
Larric Smith, writing on behalf of Sir Alfred Norden.

P.S. Perhaps you have been worried about the troubles around Caer Edric. The rogue elves harrying the fort are dead, and we have much to tell about that matter, too. One man of our party was killed fighting the elves, and Sir Alfred was seriously wounded, which is why I'm writing this.

OOC:

*The date, Larric would know and I don't, and it is 426 already, right?
**Larric would know the priestess's name; I don't.

---

IC:

Then he starts looking at that wolf-leg, with a certain amount of distaste- indicated in a glance at "Mr. Snuggles." Rohal seems to want him to look at it, though; does Larric perceive anything unusual?

[Kaelan]

In a smug voice william will say:
"you've spelt Radulf wrong".

Not often you get to correct a mage on spelling

[Panzersharkcat]

(OOC: Radulf, man, Radulf! I have nothing better to do while my character is off in Cloud Cuckoo Land.)

(OOC: Ninja'd! Oh, well. It's spelled, by the way. )

He mutters, "And now, your Highness, we will discuss the location of your hidden Rebel base."

[Kaelan]

I am a lowly chicken farmer, and above grammer and spelling.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Yes, it is, slightly more detail on the year; I haven't really worried too much about the astrography of it all because I have (had) no intention of doing an Anne McCaffrey, but the year is considerably longer than the Earth year- 451 Days, in fact; fifteen day weeks accumulating into ten 'Trids', and Confusion Day which is usually held on new year's- difernt cultures reckon that as different times, usually midwinter or midsummer. Despite that I still persist in giving character's ages and appearances in earth time rather than making the full mental adjustment.

[outer edge of the habitable zone, but with a core warmed significantly by tidal effects from the three moons? Hm.]

Apart from that- yes. An alchemist turned mage is possibly the best person to bring this to, because there's the smell of an awful lot of it coming out of this lump of limb.
Not sure there's enough of Larric's kit left to do a really good assay, but from what eye and nose can determine, the animal this came off of had been dosed very extensively, presumably to make it stronger, faster and nastier. Overdeveloped, uneven muscles- almost calcified in parts, stringy in others- not entirely successfully, knobs and spurs of bone that go nowhere, whatever the being who had done this was using didn't all play nicely together.
Not a sloppy job, but definitely a ruthless one- done with little care for the well being and long term health of the animal.


[ed. in; Panzersharkcat- no, just no. You are not making me stat up Aleph-3, Pel Aldrem and the rest of the crew. That is a crossover unto which I will not go. Shouldn't have raised that really.]

[Simon_Jester]

In a smug voice william will say:
"you've spelt Radulf wrong".

Not often you get to correct a mage on spelling

"...Oh, gods." The alchemist groans. "Now you know why I never tried to make it as a bookmaker."

Two possibilities, depending on whether Kuquan's script is like the Latin alphabet or not. If possible, he'll simply do a crude correction- in the Latin alphabet, bridging the bottom of the "n" in "Ranulf" and adding a vertical stroke to convert it into a (sloppy-penmanship) "d."

If that's not possible, he'll consider if he's got anything left that can serve as correction fluid (a dot of white paint?), decide against it because he doesn't want the thing to look like it's been tampered with, and start the letter over from scratch. Recopying will take less time than composing the damn thing in the first place did.

[Panzersharkcat]

(OOC: Until Alfred recovers from his healing trance, he's just going to be muttering nonsense on occasion.)

[Simon_Jester]

After the revised letter is finished (with names and places spelled correctly, though displacement effects may have led to misspellings of words like "hospetality" or "castel." You never know), Larric mutters some more over that leg.

"Someone did some very strange things to the beast this came off. I've heard of the like, dosing animals to make them grow faster, always at cost. I know a man who once said he'd mixed up a batch of the like on order for some manor-lord, who fed it to his prize milk cow... wound up with a ton and a half walking lump of gristle. Milk tasted horrible, too. Bessie plowed like a yoke of oxen, near enough- till she fell over dead a month later."

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Tamarin is still there, and says 'My...we occasionally came across such things, usually elvish, but slowly, carefully, selectively bred, nothing as crude as what you describe.
When they have the chance- when circumstances provide, or they move deliberately and in cold blood- they prefer to fight with swarms of attack beasts rather than risk their own long lives, but not like this...if I had to guess, this was someone else's rival version of the idea.

Evil things from the high woods are not news, but never good. intelligent evil things cannot come too far apart.'

[Simon_Jester]

"Truly, milady. Has anyone else seen a sign of such creatures?"

[Feralgnoll]

Rohal seems very happy at knowing the news and looks up towards the mountain, almost like a pointer dog.

OOC: I really want to figure out what did that! IC motivation unnatural magics that hurt animals are bad...

[Kaelan]

I must admit, regardless of how fast mr snuggles travels I'm not exactly happy of sending him alone into the mountains to search for for Sir Detrick. Given the fact that the Baron has yet to return and there are insane mages experimenting on animals up there.

I'd like him to make it back in more or less the same condition he left in - and not with a set of three heads.

[Simon_Jester]

At least we're sending him in the opposite direction from the crazy experimenter. They're coming from a mountain we went... part of the way past to get here on the way north, and he's going farther north, right?

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Mount Honeycomb is to the north- east, and if you want to think of a smaller K2, steep, sharp and so stereotypically mountain shaped as to be almost unreally mountainous, that's about right; quite a small footprint for the sheer height of the thing, but the foothills and the forest that covers them actually span more than ninety degrees of the horizon, from east south- east to north north-west from Qulan.
The Orhan Hills and the badlands that lie behind them are more or less north- west to west north-west, so not directly away from danger- not as dangerous as they're considered to be anyway.

Look at it this way; there's a good chance the experimenter might get eaten. There is a reason the barony traditionally finds it's troubles in the north and usually looks to there, after all.

Tamarin adds 'Things like that are not unknown, and I believe that part of our library is intact- if anyone encountered such a thing and wrote specific advice for those who came after, I should be able to find it; but the very short version is always go armoured, shoot it from a distance if you can, bury rather than burn the corpse, if you have to burn it make sure to stand upwind.'