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Sarevok wrote: Anyway instead of going on a tangent here I am just curious what language do they use in combat. They might as well speak in Chineese or Hindi in cutscenes I dont care. But not saying wort wort wort is a big minus.

The Covenant forces speak English in combat

I wouldn't call it a big minus; to me, it's one of perhaps a dozen little things that would've polished an already shiny finish.

But then, there's some subjectivity involved there I can suspend disbelief pretty easily after putting myself through all those years of Star Drek: VGR.

Uh, I mean, "Trek." Yeah ... Trek.

btw it's kind of funny that infact soldiers do develop a rather morbid (by our standards) sence humor to deal with the horrors of war or at least that's what I've read.

since soldiers can't show fear in front of their buddies, so they shoot onliners and bad jokes to hide the fact that they're infact scared shitless.

the vets in the diorama vids on the other hand had no reason to hide that fact.

Lord Revan wrote:btw it's kind of funny that infact soldiers do develop a rather morbid (by our standards) sence humor to deal with the horrors of war or at least that's what I've read.

since soldiers can't show fear in front of their buddies, so they shoot onliners and bad jokes to hide the fact that they're infact scared shitless.

the vets in the diorama vids on the other hand had no reason to hide that fact.

Mind you, I've always heard that this kind of behaviour was more along the lines of foxhole humour than actually wisecracking in the heat of battle. Wisecracking in the heat of battle sounds more like a tongue-in-cheek action movie.

Err, Halo is a tongue in cheek action movie..

Darth Wong wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:btw it's kind of funny that infact soldiers do develop a rather morbid (by our standards) sence humor to deal with the horrors of war or at least that's what I've read.

since soldiers can't show fear in front of their buddies, so they shoot onliners and bad jokes to hide the fact that they're infact scared shitless.

the vets in the diorama vids on the other hand had no reason to hide that fact.

Mind you, I've always heard that this kind of behaviour was more along the lines of foxhole humour than actually wisecracking in the heat of battle. Wisecracking in the heat of battle sounds more like a tongue-in-cheek action movie.

true but it's not like trained soldiers would freak out mid combat either unless things were going really badly against them

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Also, how much of an idiot are you? "Oh the marines were having fun!" You idiot, war is never "fun". Realistically, the majority of the marines are not going to look back at their actual time fighting the Covenant 50 years later as a very positive experience. Friendships made, etc etc sure maybe, but not the actual combat.

Of course war isn't bloody fun you imbecile, read what I wrote. Halo portrays war in the style of an extremely over-the-top action movie, this is not realistic. Conversely the advertising campaign portrays it (albeit indirectly) in a realistic fashion by evoking the kind of interviews with veterans you see in reality; in fact most interviews I've seen with real veterans are decidedly less melodramatic. There is a distinct discord between the two approaches.

And don't give me that "It's all a brave face!" bollocks. There's a vast difference in tone between a bit of dark humour being shared between comrades during the interminable lulls of war, as happens in reality, and Halo's Marines who are essentially hooting, hollering frat boys except in the rare circumstances where they are scripted to act otherwise. Even Spike fucking Miligan's memoirs of the Second World War depict the humour during combat as the former.

seanrobertson wrote:Aaron: you suggest the NPCs' behavior vs. the video-showcased older gents' is a bit inconsistent. Did you mean to say that you wished the game showed the horror of war in a more realistic manner?

Precisely, although I don't wish the game was more realistic. We are swamped with gritty 'realistic' shooters as it is, Halo 3 is a nice break.

Elites were animalistic and scary in Combat Evolved, I got Predator vibes from battling these aliens. That is how they should be. Anthromorphising them is unacceptable even if you get somone unbelievably good such as James Earl Jones to voice them.

Why is anthropomorphizing a character who is supposed to be sympathetic unacceptable? Did you forget that Halo 2 was more about making the Elites more sympathetic, as you played as an Elite? Its very difficult to sympathize with an animal who spouts gibberish all the time.

Personally, I prefer Elites who speak something we understand; I find gibberish-spewing, faceless aliens whose sole schtick is "I'M BIG AND SCARY WORT WORT WORT!" to be extremely boring; while I find the more understandable Elites you encounter in the later games and novels to be much more likable, simply because I now know what the hell they're actually saying.

In CE, they spoke english. It was just played backward. There's a list of the combat dialog on Game FAQs, including what the Covvies are actually saying.

IIRC, the 'Wort wort wort' bit was actually 'go go go.'

Sarevok wrote:Elites were animalistic and scary in Combat Evolved, I got Predator vibes from battling these aliens. That is how they should be. Anthromorphising them is unacceptable even if you get someone unbelievably good such as James Earl Jones to voice them.

I'll admit, Keith David is no James Earl Jones. But he's as goddamned fucking close as anyone else is gonna get.

I had no problem with the elites speaking English. I can sympathize with them a lot more than I would someone in subtitles. Kinda reminds me of KotOR, actually. All the alien dialog? Skipped right through. Held no emotional impact for me. All the english stuff? couldn't get enough of it.

The CE Elites weren't speaking English in terms of canon, though: all they did was reverse Johnson's voice and cant it lower to get a believable sounding alien babble-language.

I always figured the understanding of Elites in 2 and 3 had to do with progression in translation gear or perhaps willingness on the Arbiter's part to speak English when around humans.

Or another rationalization would be that the Elites under the Arbiter's command in Halo:CE were under orders not to communicate with the humans in their tongue while on Halo, while the Covenant at large had no such standing order, and they used human-language taunts as psychological warfare regularly.

Okay, having played Halo 3's online multiplayer for a bit, I can safely say that Shotty Snipers is a TERRIBLE game-type that does not belong in Team Slayer.

I mean, people want to play it and all. But for FUCKS SAKE, take it out of Team Slayer!

I deeply enjoyed Halo 3 with the new and extra stuff added into the game. Online was fun and can't wait to play it some more.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Or another rationalization would be that the Elites under the Arbiter's command in Halo:CE were under orders not to communicate with the humans in their tongue while on Halo, while the Covenant at large had no such standing order, and they used human-language taunts as psychological warfare regularly.

CE already translates Grunt dialogue. Problem is while Grunts are hillarious english is a poor substitute for leetspeak. Hence in combat old Halo CE sounds are far better that the crap one liners Elite's say in Halo 2. I am not argueing whether it is possible in universe to hear Elite's speak english I am just saying it makes for poorer gameplay.

Sarevok wrote: CE already translates Grunt dialogue. Problem is while Grunts are hillarious english is a poor substitute for leetspeak. Hence in combat old Halo CE sounds are far better that the crap one liners Elite's say in Halo 2. I am not argueing whether it is possible in universe to hear Elite's speak english I am just saying it makes for poorer gameplay.

But backwards english is just fine? You're not making any sense.

No you are not being able to comprehend. It does not matter if it is reversed human speech or duck's quacks they used to create Elite's sounds. The end result is not english and is convincingly alien enough to suit the Elite's fierce character. That's all that matters.

Did you even know it was backward english Elite's spoke untill you read about it ?

I havn't lurked this tread out of fear of spoilers, but do you miss a lot of the story if you never played Halo 2?

wautd wrote:I havn't lurked this tread out of fear of spoilers, but do you miss a lot of the story if you never played Halo 2?

It's like RotK, where they just drop you in and keep going from where it left off.

So... yeah.

Sarevok wrote:No you are not being able to comprehend. It does not matter if it is reversed human speech or duck's quacks they used to create Elite's sounds. The end result is not english and is convincingly alien enough to suit the Elite's fierce character. That's all that matters.

Did you even know it was backward english Elite's spoke untill you read about it ?

A few years ago, I read that combat dialog archive and learned that.

How does what the elites say in English not suit their fierce character?

Plus err...wouldn't it be pretty freaking silly to be playing as the Arbiter and NOT understanding what your comrades are saying?

Back on the topic of actually critiquing the game...

The Skulls and the meta-game scoring add a lot of replay value to the campaign, moreso than the already awesome scenes in the levels added.

wautd wrote:I havn't lurked this tread out of fear of spoilers, but do you miss a lot of the story if you never played Halo 2?

A pretty significant chunk, yes. You could probably get by just looking at Halo 2 on wiki, though.

CycloneRider052 wrote: A few years ago, I read that combat dialog archive and learned that.

How does what the elites say in English not suit their fierce character?

Plus err...wouldn't it be pretty freaking silly to be playing as the Arbiter and NOT understanding what your comrades are saying?

Dude wort wort wort is just much much more awesome than silly theatrical dialogue Elites spew in Halo 2. If it needs to be explained to you in words then you are beyond help.

As for the arbiter it was an worthless idea save the nifty cloak thingy he could do. Still if someone likes him his part of the campaign could have Elite's with a degree in shakespearean english as long as the old Elites with an A in asskicking and F in social skills are in the MC campaign.

Sarevok wrote:Dude wort wort wort is just much much more awesome than silly theatrical dialogue Elites spew in Halo 2. If it needs to be explained to you in words then you are beyond help.

As for the arbiter it was an worthless idea save the nifty cloak thingy he could do. Still if someone likes him his part of the campaign could have Elite's with a degree in shakespearean english as long as the old Elites with an A in asskicking and F in social skills are in the MC campaign.

Speaking of spewing silly shit...

Honestly, Sarevok, get over it. It's obvious you despise Halo 2 and any element of the universe beyond "OMG teh Master Chief is teh R0xorz!"; we get it. You don't have to pollute the thread with consistently inane and virtually incomprehensible vitriol. Yes, having Elites be relatable NPCs in one mission and totally alien, animalistic killing machines in the next makes perfect sense.

Sorry I will shut up now.

Well, I just picked up the game. The graphics are, of course, much prettier than Halo 2. It feels like it's just more of the same, but that's what people wanted. The ability to knock a tripod gun off its mount and carry it around like Jesse Ventura in Predator is pretty cool, though. No weapon in the first two games was ever as cool as staring down a horde of Brutes and Grunts with a minigun in your hands. Old Painless is waitin' ...