Final Fantasy XIV

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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by Steve »

If someone sees Zenos' role in the story as worthy and considers it to have further developed his character in an interesting way, the interaction at the end is the culmination of that, and elements of the DRK job story and other tidbits lead credence to the idea the WoL, at least in part, loves the thrill of fighting a greater challenge and besting strong foes, so Zenos isn't entirely wrong, and his recognition that the WoL fights for higher causes reflects Zenos' own progression as a character.

If someone sees Zenos as a plot tumor, then his involvement in the ending feels forced and unsatisfying, and any insights or views he provides as inherently unworthy of validation or consideration regardless of whatever other material may support them.

TLDR: this boils down to one's perception of Zenos, and I'm not sure there's a right or wrong there, it's all going to be subjective.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by LadyTevar »

Now, onward to something more interesting --

PATCH NOTES FOR 6.2!!!!

ISLAND SANCTUARY!

NEW DUNGEONS: "Fell Court of Troia", "Sil'Dihn Subterrane" (hard and savage too!)

NEW TRIALS! Including new UNREAL TRIAL for Containment Bay S1T7

MORE MSQ REVISIONS!
MORE MSQ for LVL 90+

TATURU's Grand Endeavor!
SOMEHOW FURTHER HILDIBRAND ADVENTURES! (in 6.25).

NEW WEAPON ENHANCEMENTS: MANDERVILLE WEAPONS

NEW TRIBE QUEST ; OMICRONS (Probably need to complete OmegaVerse Quests, as well as the "Heartless Quest" and "Goodbye (gibberish code)" storylines)
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Steve wrote: 2022-07-28 12:52am If someone sees Zenos' role in the story as worthy and considers it to have further developed his character in an interesting way, the interaction at the end is the culmination of that, and elements of the DRK job story and other tidbits lead credence to the idea the WoL, at least in part, loves the thrill of fighting a greater challenge and besting strong foes, so Zenos isn't entirely wrong, and his recognition that the WoL fights for higher causes reflects Zenos' own progression as a character.

If someone sees Zenos as a plot tumor, then his involvement in the ending feels forced and unsatisfying, and any insights or views he provides as inherently unworthy of validation or consideration regardless of whatever other material may support them.

TLDR: this boils down to one's perception of Zenos, and I'm not sure there's a right or wrong there, it's all going to be subjective.
That's very fair. Tevar seems to be in the later but she's not obnoxious about it whereas Fenix was basically "If you view it this way you're WRONG."

I'm wondering if there's going to be any overarching plot. The Ascians are probably gone for good at this point, and that story is well and truly resolved. Can someone make a list of potential plot points?
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by LadyTevar »

Darth Yan wrote: 2022-07-28 03:45pm I'm wondering if there's going to be any overarching plot. The Ascians are probably gone for good at this point, and that story is well and truly resolved. Can someone make a list of potential plot points?
Uh... did you not go to Radz a-Han and find the Treasure Map with Estinien yet?

If you've not, I'm not gonna spoil the new Direction the Storyline is going.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by Steve »

TBH I suspect the story started in 6.1 is only going to be through to 6.3, maybe 6.5. For the first time since ARR there's no lingering plot threads to pick up from the main expansion story (Estinian taken by Nidhogg's shade, the survival of Yotsuyu and Gosetsu, the Scions still being trapped in the First) so it's more likely this is one quick story to be concluded in 6.3, then 6.4 will start the buildup to the fifth expansion.

If there is any overarching element, I suspect it'll be following up on what Emet-Selch laid out about what we haven't seen yet. If the ARR-to-Endwalker arc could be called "The Tale of the Star", I think we'll have a running theme of "The Mysteries of the Star" for the next several expansions.

Anyway, if anything is going to make me as mad as Fenix gets about Zenos', it'd be all the fucking jackasses on YouTube comment channels who go around screaming "VENAT IS EVIL!" and "VENAT COMMITTED GENOCIDE!". No, you jackasses, she did something harsh but necessary and at significant self cost to stop the genocide of the new life forms. (And half these jackasses are explicitly pro-Ascian so that's an important fact to remember: the Ascians are committing genocide all the time).
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Steve wrote: 2022-07-29 02:45am Anyway, if anything is going to make me as mad as Fenix gets about Zenos', it'd be all the fucking jackasses on YouTube comment channels who go around screaming "VENAT IS EVIL!" and "VENAT COMMITTED GENOCIDE!". No, you jackasses, she did something harsh but necessary and at significant self cost to stop the genocide of the new life forms. (And half these jackasses are explicitly pro-Ascian so that's an important fact to remember: the Ascians are committing genocide all the time).
I suspect there might be a case that most prominent Ascians are at least implied to be white males where as Venat isn't therefore Ascians must be right (these people obviously won't phrase it so but when you look more into it that's the ultimate justification. Though it is kind of funny when you remember that they're playing a game made by a Japanese company).

The Narrative was pretty obvious that the surviving ancients (the proto Ascians if you will) were trying to cling to a past where they were essentially gods and Venat made that impossible so that world could evolve past trying to recreate that past and thus meet the threat the Endsinger posed and not just delay the coming doom.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by LadyTevar »

Steve wrote: 2022-07-29 02:45am TBH I suspect the story started in 6.1 is only going to be through to 6.3, maybe 6.5. For the first time since ARR there's no lingering plot threads to pick up from the main expansion story (Estinian taken by Nidhogg's shade, the survival of Yotsuyu and Gosetsu, the Scions still being trapped in the First) so it's more likely this is one quick story to be concluded in 6.3, then 6.4 will start the buildup to the fifth expansion.
I really doubt the storyline will be that short. I think like with the Scions dropping while we're trying to meet with the Emperor and get him to leave Ala Mhigo, the events in Radz a-Han are the lead-in to 5th Expansion.

What could we see? Well, with no more Empire and the End-of-World... what's happening in Borjza? What's happening in Rabanastre? Both were in full rebellion just like Ala Mhigo. Yes, Rabanastre was more of a Side-Quest with the TheaterShip, but it was Good Storyline, and very nice to see them using FF-12 content like Fran and the Bangaa race.

I personally have done jack-shit in Borjza other than Gerolt's quests, because every quest I tried to do I died horribly (too used to having my Chocobo for backup). Would be nice to have something to do there that's not just raids/FATES
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by Steve »

They might be planning to do the whole thing to set up the next expansion, certainly. I'm just thinking it won't be, or rather, it'll be for a longer-term payoff while 6.4 and 6.5 change course and do stuff to set up the fifth expansion directly.

When we get 6.2 we'll probably get a better feel for where the story's going.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by LadyTevar »

Steve wrote: 2022-07-29 07:21pm They might be planning to do the whole thing to set up the next expansion, certainly. I'm just thinking it won't be, or rather, it'll be for a longer-term payoff while 6.4 and 6.5 change course and do stuff to set up the fifth expansion directly.

When we get 6.2 we'll probably get a better feel for where the story's going.
Right now it looks like Golbez and the 4 Elements.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by Lord Revan »

LadyTevar wrote: 2022-07-30 12:24pm
Steve wrote: 2022-07-29 07:21pm They might be planning to do the whole thing to set up the next expansion, certainly. I'm just thinking it won't be, or rather, it'll be for a longer-term payoff while 6.4 and 6.5 change course and do stuff to set up the fifth expansion directly.

When we get 6.2 we'll probably get a better feel for where the story's going.
Right now it looks like Golbez and the 4 Elements.
Which could mean 7.0 has us doing to the void (aka the 13th shard) what we did to the 1st shard in Shadowbringer. After all even if the Ascians are done everything they did wasn't magically fixed when the Ascian were defeated for good.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Lord Revan wrote: 2022-07-30 05:18pm
LadyTevar wrote: 2022-07-30 12:24pm
Steve wrote: 2022-07-29 07:21pm They might be planning to do the whole thing to set up the next expansion, certainly. I'm just thinking it won't be, or rather, it'll be for a longer-term payoff while 6.4 and 6.5 change course and do stuff to set up the fifth expansion directly.

When we get 6.2 we'll probably get a better feel for where the story's going.
Right now it looks like Golbez and the 4 Elements.
Which could mean 7.0 has us doing to the void (aka the 13th shard) what we did to the 1st shard in Shadowbringer. After all even if the Ascians are done everything they did wasn't magically fixed when the Ascian were defeated for good.
Lightbringer? Void cleaner? Rejoining? FixingIgeyorhmfuckup?

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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Mr Bean wrote: 2022-07-30 07:45pm
Lord Revan wrote: 2022-07-30 05:18pm
LadyTevar wrote: 2022-07-30 12:24pm Right now it looks like Golbez and the 4 Elements.
Which could mean 7.0 has us doing to the void (aka the 13th shard) what we did to the 1st shard in Shadowbringer. After all even if the Ascians are done everything they did wasn't magically fixed when the Ascian were defeated for good.
Lightbringer? Void cleaner? Rejoining? FixingIgeyorhmfuckup?
You tell me, though I suspect SE will think of something to call though I suspect "rejoining" is out of the table as it refers to a thing that's kind of bad for both sides.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Lord Revan wrote: 2022-07-30 07:57pm You tell me, though I suspect SE will think of something to call though I suspect "rejoining" is out of the table as it refers to a thing that's kind of bad for both sides.
From the way it sounds, the 13th *CAN'T* Rejoin.
It was the Ascian's first attempt to tilt the Balance to trigger Rejoining, but whatever they did messed up and it became The Void instead. Whether becoming the Void prevented Rejoining, or the Ascians stopped trying because Rejoining Void with Source would be too dangerous is left unknown at this point

But yes, I think that Emet-Selch thought we could 'right the wrong' they did there. There's also a tie-in to the 13th in the form of the Masked Child that gives you the Triad Quests, and the Barmaid on 1st who's the last Quest after you finish hunting the Virtues. After you finish both those quests, there's another Quest that ties them together
Spoiler
both of them are from the 13th, both former WoL who failed to save their world because they didn't know to work together. The Ascians saved them and convinced them the Rejoining would save other worlds from becoming like the 13th.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Well either way it's strongly implied if not outright stated that rejoining would be Bad Thing with a capital "b" for both the shard and the source so it's unlikely we'll be doing that, it doesn't mean we won't be trying to restore the 13th to what it was or at least close enough for it be more or less "normal".
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Lord Revan wrote: 2022-07-31 09:12pm Well either way it's strongly implied if not outright stated that rejoining would be Bad Thing with a capital "b" for both the shard and the source so it's unlikely we'll be doing that, it doesn't mean we won't be trying to restore the 13th to what it was or at least close enough for it be more or less "normal".
Well there is Emet-Selch plan for us in Shadowbringers, his hinted at less violent method of rejoining which he was hoping we could bring about. As we destroyed Lightwardens and seem to be able to handle the light okay he got more positive about us. Only when we nearly broke did he give back into despair and revert to Plan A the flood of light. There is a very real possibility there may be a method of rejoining that does not make the source go kaboom for awhile and annihilate the residents of the shard.

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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Mr Bean wrote: 2022-08-01 07:08am
Lord Revan wrote: 2022-07-31 09:12pm Well either way it's strongly implied if not outright stated that rejoining would be Bad Thing with a capital "b" for both the shard and the source so it's unlikely we'll be doing that, it doesn't mean we won't be trying to restore the 13th to what it was or at least close enough for it be more or less "normal".
Well there is Emet-Selch plan for us in Shadowbringers, his hinted at less violent method of rejoining which he was hoping we could bring about. As we destroyed Lightwardens and seem to be able to handle the light okay he got more positive about us. Only when we nearly broke did he give back into despair and revert to Plan A the flood of light. There is a very real possibility there may be a method of rejoining that does not make the source go kaboom for awhile and annihilate the residents of the shard.
Was there ever an actual plan or just a hope, for all his cynical rants Emet-Selch is just as capable of wishful thinking as the rest he had just given up hope and if anything the Warrior of Light/Darkness is a hope bringer
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by LadyTevar »

Lord Revan wrote: 2022-08-01 11:53am
Mr Bean wrote: 2022-08-01 07:08am Well there is Emet-Selch plan for us in Shadowbringers, his hinted at less violent method of rejoining which he was hoping we could bring about. As we destroyed Lightwardens and seem to be able to handle the light okay he got more positive about us. Only when we nearly broke did he give back into despair and revert to Plan A the flood of light. There is a very real possibility there may be a method of rejoining that does not make the source go kaboom for awhile and annihilate the residents of the shard.
Was there ever an actual plan or just a hope, for all his cynical rants Emet-Selch is just as capable of wishful thinking as the rest he had just given up hope and if anything the Warrior of Light/Darkness is a hope bringer

If there was a way to Rejoin that didn't cause massive catastrophe for both worlds, one would think Emet-Selch would have used it prior to this. But to be honest, I really wasn't sure what he was hoping the WoL could do.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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LadyTevar wrote: 2022-08-01 01:37pm
Lord Revan wrote: 2022-08-01 11:53am
Mr Bean wrote: 2022-08-01 07:08am Well there is Emet-Selch plan for us in Shadowbringers, his hinted at less violent method of rejoining which he was hoping we could bring about. As we destroyed Lightwardens and seem to be able to handle the light okay he got more positive about us. Only when we nearly broke did he give back into despair and revert to Plan A the flood of light. There is a very real possibility there may be a method of rejoining that does not make the source go kaboom for awhile and annihilate the residents of the shard.
Was there ever an actual plan or just a hope, for all his cynical rants Emet-Selch is just as capable of wishful thinking as the rest he had just given up hope and if anything the Warrior of Light/Darkness is a hope bringer

If there was a way to Rejoin that didn't cause massive catastrophe for both worlds, one would think Emet-Selch would have used it prior to this. But to be honest, I really wasn't sure what he was hoping the WoL could do.
I don't think he would have tried it. I think he had a known method that worked, and worked several times so he let it go on. In fact we don't even know if he presided over any rejoining to date. Since the idea seems to be 1-2 Ascians to a shard working on setting up the conditions for the rejoining. In fact except for the Vauthry plan it seems Emet domain was the source not any of the shards. His only activity on the shards we know about was the first and that was after both of the Ascians who were assigned there became... unavailable.

I think Emet Selch saw his job as setting up the conditions in the source for the other Ascians to exploit to create a rejoining not in causing the rejoining themselves. The Ascians after all for a long time had Lahabrea as their point man. Emet set the conditions, Lahabrea was the one pushing things over the edge and Elidibus kept things nice and even to make sure an Astral calamity did not turn umbral or ice themed or anything else. Emet the long term planner, Lahabrea as the one to handle the minute by minute details and Elidibus as the manager moving Ascians around.

When Emet Selch came to us, Lahabrea was dead as was several other Ascians and several possible rejoining thwarted. So the long term planner Emet was exploring his options.

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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Mr Bean wrote: 2022-08-01 02:52pm I think Emet Selch saw his job as setting up the conditions in the source for the other Ascians to exploit to create a rejoining not in causing the rejoining themselves. The Ascians after all for a long time had Lahabrea as their point man. Emet set the conditions, Lahabrea was the one pushing things over the edge and Elidibus kept things nice and even to make sure an Astral calamity did not turn umbral or ice themed or anything else. Emet the long term planner, Lahabrea as the one to handle the minute by minute details and Elidibus as the manager moving Ascians around.

When Emet Selch came to us, Lahabrea was dead as was several other Ascians and several possible rejoining thwarted. So the long term planner Emet was exploring his options.
Emet-Selch set up the Galean Empire on the Source, and then engineered its fall to ready the Source for the 1st to Rejoin. That ultimately got thwarted on both ends, so Vaultry was his back-up, turning the hume child of the leader of Eulmore into that area's LightWarden. The whole plan with Meol as food was probably his idea as well.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by Lord Revan »

Well Emet-Selch seemed like he was the de facto leader of the Ascians sure Lahabrea or Elidibus had say on things but it did seem all the long term planning as Emet-Selch role
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Lord Revan wrote: 2022-08-02 12:26am Well Emet-Selch seemed like he was the de facto leader of the Ascians sure Lahabrea or Elidibus had say on things but it did seem all the long term planning as Emet-Selch role
If you've been to Elpis, you would know that Emet-Selch was his title as head of the Council.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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LadyTevar wrote: 2022-08-02 01:40pm
Lord Revan wrote: 2022-08-02 12:26am Well Emet-Selch seemed like he was the de facto leader of the Ascians sure Lahabrea or Elidibus had say on things but it did seem all the long term planning as Emet-Selch role
If you've been to Elpis, you would know that Emet-Selch was his title as head of the Council.
I've been there though I forgot that little detail about the seat of Emet-Selch as the 14 are treated equals in authority in the story so while they have leader that leader is not above anyone else but more the guy who keeps everything in order.
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

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Lord Revan wrote: 2022-08-03 01:28am
LadyTevar wrote: 2022-08-02 01:40pm
Lord Revan wrote: 2022-08-02 12:26am Well Emet-Selch seemed like he was the de facto leader of the Ascians sure Lahabrea or Elidibus had say on things but it did seem all the long term planning as Emet-Selch role
If you've been to Elpis, you would know that Emet-Selch was his title as head of the Council.
I've been there though I forgot that little detail about the seat of Emet-Selch as the 14 are treated equals in authority in the story so while they have leader that leader is not above anyone else but more the guy who keeps everything in order.
I got the feeling the title Emet-Selch was more of a "First Among Equals", but "Coordinator" is a good explanation of his duties. He was probably the one who had the Final Say, however.
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LadyTevar
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by LadyTevar »

MOONFIRE FESTIVAL!!

And that Challenge is really fun, until you try to get all the way to the top. I am NOT that good a platformer :(
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Librium Arcana, Where Gamers Play!
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
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Lord Revan
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Re: Final Fantasy XIV

Post by Lord Revan »

LadyTevar wrote: 2022-08-11 11:31pm MOONFIRE FESTIVAL!!

And that Challenge is really fun, until you try to get all the way to the top. I am NOT that good a platformer :(
There's an NPC that allows you to bypass the puzzle if you want (I didn't and the reward for it is nice, a 5 piece set too so you can mix and match if you think the default is too revealing (or just want to use part of it for a glam).
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