I want hope

[FaxModem1]

Frankly, over the past few months(maybe years). It seems like there has been more bad news than good, and its just starting to wear me down.

American President makes a war that gets at least thousands killed for no reason and makes the US lose almost all friendly relations with other countries.

Marriage Amendment put up for a vote for no other reason than to gain support for the Republicans from Conservatives.

Israel fighting Lebanon and getting a huge frown from the world stage.

Patriot Act 1 & 2

In the 90s, I was a child in school, the world seemed bright, the economy was good, no major shit going on, if we had a conflict, we had the knowledge that we could jump out if we wanted to. Nowadays, it seems like were trapped. Now I know the world isn't all fairies and butterflies, but I'm tired of it seeming like nothing but dragons and monsters. I guess, all in all, I just want some hope about the world. Is there any that ya'll can give me?

And yes; I was a nieve child, but does that mean there isn't anything good to look at in the future?

[Darth Fanboy]

We are less than two years away from the end of the Bush Presidency. If you've lasted this long you should be able to handle the rest, especially as his party abandons him and renders him as ineffectual as his father was.

[Havok]

I hear Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are going to be cast as Kirk and Spock in the next Star Trek movie!!! Don't you feel better now?

[atg]

Frankly, over the past few months(maybe years). It seems like there has been more bad news than good, and its just starting to wear me down.

American President makes a war that gets at least thousands killed for no reason and makes the US lose almost all friendly relations with other countries.

Marriage Amendment put up for a vote for no other reason than to gain support for the Republicans from Conservatives.

Israel fighting Lebanon and getting a huge frown from the world stage.

Patriot Act 1 & 2

In the 90s, I was a child in school, the world seemed bright, the economy was good, no major shit going on, if we had a conflict, we had the knowledge that we could jump out if we wanted to. Nowadays, it seems like were trapped. Now I know the world isn't all fairies and butterflies, but I'm tired of it seeming like nothing but dragons and monsters. I guess, all in all, I just want some hope about the world. Is there any that ya'll can give me?

And yes; I was a nieve child, but does that mean there isn't anything good to look at in the future?

Most of what you mention is caused by Bush, and thankfully he can't be re-elected. I think I might celebrate his last night of presidency by getting pissed.

[MKSheppard]

In the 90s, I was a child in school, the world seemed bright, the economy was good, no major shit going on, if we had a conflict, we had the knowledge that we could jump out if we wanted to.

You're a damn idiot.

I remember going in front of the TV in the old house, and seeing green tracers streaking over Baghdad in 1991 and thinking "My God, We're At War"; tis was when I was 10 years old.

Thinking further back, I remember the coffins on television from the Stark Incident.

My mother put it best when she told me about the Vincennes Incident. She said that after the Stark Incident, President Reagan told our sailors to shoot back if they thought they were under attack; so they did. Sucks to be an Iranian airliner that blunders into a naval battle with Robocruiser, who does't answer the hails from the Vincennes to turn back.

Not to mention the overwhelming threat of thermonuclear annihilation which loomed over all of us in the 1980s and early 1990s.

The mid to late 1990s I do remember for Clinton's fecklessness in regards to dealing with our threats; it seemed like every other week, we were shooting TLAMs at some new threat Clinton found; our TLAM-C inventory was so depleted by him we had to convert TLAM-Ns into conventional versions.

Not to mention the various things that Clinton tied us up in, like the Bosnian Conflict, our peacekeepers are only FINALLY leaving the god damn place after being there for 10+ years; We can't forget launching a war against Serbia for the crime of defending Serbia from Moslem separatists in Kosovo.

Not to mention the Alfred P Murrah Bombing, I remember seeing it on TV in flames the night it went down.

If you think the 1990s were a time of peace love happiness, and all that, you're on some serious fucking crack.

[MKSheppard]

I also remember the papers from the 1993 WTC bombing attempt.

[FaxModem1]

Keep in mind, I was born in 1986, most of the events your talking about happened while I was in elementry school. My grasp on the world at large was rather limited.

As for the late 90s, I was still very sheltered then, and I already admitted to being nieve about things. But they were a hell of a lot better back then than they are now, as least IMHO.

So go ahead and insult me, but I was a child at the time, and children don't always get all the media from the world.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Frankly, over the past few months(maybe years). It seems like there has been more bad news than good, and its just starting to wear me down.

American President makes a war that gets at least thousands killed for no reason and makes the US lose almost all friendly relations with other countries.

Marriage Amendment put up for a vote for no other reason than to gain support for the Republicans from Conservatives.

Israel fighting Lebanon and getting a huge frown from the world stage.

Patriot Act 1 & 2

In the 90s, I was a child in school, the world seemed bright, the economy was good, no major shit going on, if we had a conflict, we had the knowledge that we could jump out if we wanted to. Nowadays, it seems like were trapped. Now I know the world isn't all fairies and butterflies, but I'm tired of it seeming like nothing but dragons and monsters. I guess, all in all, I just want some hope about the world. Is there any that ya'll can give me?

And yes; I was a nieve child, but does that mean there isn't anything good to look at in the future?

I know what you mean.

I left High School thinking the world, as bad as it could be, was opened to me and I had a million oppertunities... *sigh*

[Broomstick]

If you think the 1990s were a time of peace love happiness, and all that, you're on some serious fucking crack.

Well, I remember all the way back to Vietnam and Watergate, so I don't have the explanation of "I was in elementary school and sheltered" back in the 1990's.

Shep is right in that some bad shit happened in the 1990's. You know what? Back shit happened in the 1980's and ht 1970's, too. Bad shit happens all the time because the universe is a hostile place and people are assholes.

Know what? I think the 90's were better, overall, than the 00's have been.

In '93 the WTC was bombed, but damage was confined to the building. In '01, they fell down and took 16 acres of Manhattan with them.

Sure, in the 90's the Murrah Building was bombed by a home-grown nutcase. In '01 it was the Pentagon, by a foreign enemy.

Clinton got us involved in Bosnia. Bush II got involved in Iraq.

Bush I built a true international coalition to push Iraq out of Kuwait, which ended in 4 days in unequivical victory. Bush II alienated the world to, bluntly, conquer Iraq and now has us bogged down in a quagmire.

Under Clinton, the budget deficit went down. Under Bush II, it went up higher than it had ever been before.

Outside of the Presidency, in the 90's the economy was booming - stocks were up, real estate value increasing. Stocks crashed first with the dot.com bust, then again in 01. Real estate values are now starting to fall, which will leave people with more debt than their home is worth.

It's not illusion - in many ways we WERE better off in the 90's despite some very real crap going on than we are now.

[Cao Cao]

We are less than two years away from the end of the Bush Presidency. If you've lasted this long you should be able to handle the rest, especially as his party abandons him and renders him as ineffectual as his father was.

Bush's legacy will unfortunately last long after he steps down.
Iraq's doomed to a quagmire and America's international reputation is in tatters.
Call me a cynic but I don't see that being fixed any time soon.

I've been worn down lately too. Death, destruction, terrorism.
Fundamentalism on the rise, ignorant fucks making decisions that kill thousands. It's always been bad - I know. But now it just seems worse.

[Darth Wong]

Don't be a pussy; I grew up under the threat of full-scale global thermonuclear war.

[Cao Cao]

Don't be a pussy; I grew up under the threat of full-scale global thermonuclear war.

People tend to percieve that threat as better than what we have now.
I know I do. Of course this is just a perception because nothing ever came from it. No war, no bombs dropping, Soviet Union collapsed.
Just how humans are I suppose. Maybe some decades from now people will look on this time with rose-colored glasses. But it's hard to see that now.

[Rogue 9]

Some of my earliest clear memories are of coverage of the Gulf War. It may have been better than it is now, but the 90s were definitely not a time of peace. There were simply a lot of brushfires rather than a big war.

[Darth Wong]

Don't be a pussy; I grew up under the threat of full-scale global thermonuclear war.

People tend to percieve that threat as better than what we have now.
I know I do. Of course this is just a perception because nothing ever came from it. No war, no bombs dropping, Soviet Union collapsed.
Just how humans are I suppose. Maybe some decades from now people will look on this time with rose-colored glasses. But it's hard to see that now.

Of course a threat doesn't seem dangerous once it's over. Duh. But at the time, nuclear war dominated pop culture. Many people were convinced that it was only a matter of time, and that it would happen sooner or later. In a way, I think that might have been the cause of some of the exaggerated exuberance of the 80s; "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die". Every damned newspaper seemed to have another story about the escalating military buildup on both sides. And we were hearing all these alarmist stories about how Russian tanks kicked the shit out of American ones etc. (turned out to be false but Pentagon fearmongering was running in high gear).

Think about it: today we say that the Soviet Union bankrupted itself trying to compete in the arms race. But in the 80s, we said that the Soviet Union was spending beyond its means in a massive military buildup, and they couldn't possibly sustain this pace forever, which meant that it would all come to a terrible climax at some point. It's easy to look back and say "oh that wasn't scary". Try living through it.

[Cao Cao]

Don't be a pussy; I grew up under the threat of full-scale global thermonuclear war.

People tend to percieve that threat as better than what we have now.
I know I do. Of course this is just a perception because nothing ever came from it. No war, no bombs dropping, Soviet Union collapsed.
Just how humans are I suppose. Maybe some decades from now people will look on this time with rose-colored glasses. But it's hard to see that now.

Of course a threat doesn't seem dangerous once it's over. Duh.

My point was that people today are not necessarilly more cowardly because the bad goings on out there are less apocalyptic in nature. If that makes any sense.

[Cao Cao]

ghetto edit: curse the lack of edit!
Anyway, I grew up in the 80's. But then being a kid I didn't understand everything that was going on. If I were as cynical then as I am now the fearmongering back then would probably put me in a similar state of depression.

[Trytostaydead]

Well, just remember. Most of that is the price you pay for democracy. Sometimes the voters don't win.

[Setesh]

In the 90s, I was a child in school, the world seemed bright, the economy was good, no major shit going on, if we had a conflict, we had the knowledge that we could jump out if we wanted to.

You're a damn idiot.

I remember going in front of the TV in the old house, and seeing green tracers streaking over Baghdad in 1991 and thinking "My God, We're At War"; tis was when I was 10 years old.

Thinking further back, I remember the coffins on television from the Stark Incident.

My mother put it best when she told me about the Vincennes Incident. She said that after the Stark Incident, President Reagan told our sailors to shoot back if they thought they were under attack; so they did. Sucks to be an Iranian airliner that blunders into a naval battle with Robocruiser, who does't answer the hails from the Vincennes to turn back.

Not to mention the overwhelming threat of thermonuclear annihilation which loomed over all of us in the 1980s and early 1990s.

The mid to late 1990s I do remember for Clinton's fecklessness in regards to dealing with our threats; it seemed like every other week, we were shooting TLAMs at some new threat Clinton found; our TLAM-C inventory was so depleted by him we had to convert TLAM-Ns into conventional versions.

Yeah cuz killin the bastards from long range with chemical high explosives just ain't enough. It couldn't be that Clinton was avoiding the clusterfuck we have now

Not to mention the various things that Clinton tied us up in, like the Bosnian Conflict, our peacekeepers are only FINALLY leaving the god damn place after being there for 10+ years; We can't forget launching a war against Serbia for the crime of defending Serbia from Moslem separatists in Kosovo.

Except its not just us there, that was a full UN operation. Yeah the peacekeeping efforts had nothing to do with the serbians attempt at genocide or crimes against humanity

Not to mention the Alfred P Murrah Bombing, I remember seeing it on TV in flames the night it went down.

If you think the 1990s were a time of peace love happiness, and all that, you're on some serious fucking crack.

Or he was admitedly a child. But honestly there is no 'golden age' when things were better, shit now always sucks more ass than shit then. Honesty the only complaint I have is that the Iraq war is a fabricated threat while we have yet to finish with the confirmed threat.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

The Iraq War, the mortgaging of our economic future to finance short term spending, the alienation of other countries, these are all horrible problems, but they pale in comparison to the successful hijacking of our American democracy by corporations and by conservatives in general. When a country can experience tremendous growth and prosperity for 30 years, and not one inflation-adjusted dime goes to the middle class, you know you're already fucked. When a President can blatantly cheat his way into office, you know you're already fucked. And when you tell these things to the average voter and it doesn't even register, that's when you really know you're already fucked. These are the real problems facing us, and they won't go away when Bush is replaced.

[Darth Wong]

The Iraq War, the mortgaging of our economic future to finance short term spending, the alienation of other countries, these are all horrible problems, but they pale in comparison to the successful hijacking of our American democracy by corporations and by conservatives in general. When a country can experience tremendous growth and prosperity for 30 years, and not one inflation-adjusted dime goes to the middle class, you know you're already fucked. When a President can blatantly cheat his way into office, you know you're already fucked. And when you tell these things to the average voter and it doesn't even register, that's when you really know you're already fucked. These are the real problems facing us, and they won't go away when Bush is replaced.

You don't worship at the altar of corporatism? You must be a communist! You hate America!

[Patrick Degan]

In the 90s, I was a child in school, the world seemed bright, the economy was good, no major shit going on, if we had a conflict, we had the knowledge that we could jump out if we wanted to.

You're a damn idiot.

I remember going in front of the TV in the old house, and seeing green tracers streaking over Baghdad in 1991 and thinking "My God, We're At War"; tis was when I was 10 years old.

Thinking further back, I remember the coffins on television from the Stark Incident.

My mother put it best when she told me about the Vincennes Incident. She said that after the Stark Incident, President Reagan told our sailors to shoot back if they thought they were under attack; so they did. Sucks to be an Iranian airliner that blunders into a naval battle with Robocruiser, who does't answer the hails from the Vincennes to turn back.

Not to mention the overwhelming threat of thermonuclear annihilation which loomed over all of us in the 1980s and early 1990s.

The mid to late 1990s I do remember for Clinton's fecklessness in regards to dealing with our threats; it seemed like every other week, we were shooting TLAMs at some new threat Clinton found; our TLAM-C inventory was so depleted by him we had to convert TLAM-Ns into conventional versions.

Not to mention the various things that Clinton tied us up in, like the Bosnian Conflict, our peacekeepers are only FINALLY leaving the god damn place after being there for 10+ years; We can't forget launching a war against Serbia for the crime of defending Serbia from Moslem separatists in Kosovo.

Not to mention the Alfred P Murrah Bombing, I remember seeing it on TV in flames the night it went down.

If you think the 1990s were a time of peace love happiness, and all that, you're on some serious fucking crack.

Compared to what we've got today, the 90s were far better.

[MKSheppard]

Yeah cuz killin the bastards from long range with chemical high explosives just ain't enough. It couldn't be that Clinton was avoiding the clusterfuck we have now

<elfdart mode on>

You mean the "Wag the Dog" Military actions he did?

Damn, a new scandal! time to blow up some HURR HURR BROWN PEOPLE to distract the public!

</elfdart mode off>

Except its not just us there, that was a full UN operation. Yeah the peacekeeping efforts had nothing to do with the serbians attempt at genocide or crimes against humanity

You mean the genocide and crimes against humanity that NATO claimed existed, but after the war, they couldnt' find anything but clear well marked graves; no mass graves, etc. Vympel and Stas can fill you in more on the disastrous Kosovo Campaign than I can.

[Coyote]

The 90's kinda sucked, really. I mean, we sat and stewed without a clear sense of purpose while Rwanda went into meltdown; and of course there was Somalia, yum, yum.

The problem with the situation now is that 9-11 could have opened up a great deal of opportunity for us to confront the threat that had been slowly brewing for decade; ie, Islamic radicalism. With a wise hand at the helm we could have finally dealt with this with the world at our side-- including many in the Muslim world. Instead, at one of the decisive moments of world leaderhsip, who do we have as the hand that guides America?

Mortimer Snerd.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I suggest you find a copy of Threads, watch it, then get back to us on just how easy life was when I was in kindergarten, going on to primary school.

[SAMAS]

Well, now I'm depressed....