Work ethic in Kentucky

[Darth Wong]

This is an old story, but way back when I worked at Kellogg, I found out that the Kentucky plant had around 10 times the product reject rate as the Etobicoke plant (indicating sloppy work), and around three times the rate of absenteeism. As one manager drily pointed out, it's as if they don't care to show up for work the minute hunting season starts. Does anyone here live in Kentucky who might be able to explain why we would see these kinds of figures? Is there a bad work ethic down there? Or are the Kellogg plants just staffed by remarkably useless union guys?

[HemlockGrey]

Hunting season. That explains a lot. Out in rural PA the school districts take the first day of hunting season off as a holiday because no one shows up, that's how bad it is.

[Joe]

Becuase it's the south. It's the place where the black guys are really lazy and all the white guys are just as lazy but they're mad at the black guys for being so lazy.

(cookie for the reference)

[Surlethe]

My cousins who live in Lexington don't show any slacking work ethic I know of; based on that, I'd say it's useless union guys.

[Mikal768]

This is an old story, but way back when I worked at Kellogg, I found out that the Kentucky plant had around 10 times the product reject rate as the Etobicoke plant (indicating sloppy work), and around three times the rate of absenteeism. As one manager drily pointed out, it's as if they don't care to show up for work the minute hunting season starts. Does anyone here live in Kentucky who might be able to explain why we would see these kinds of figures? Is there a bad work ethic down there? Or are the Kellogg plants just staffed by remarkably useless union guys?

Depends on the area that the Kellogg plant is at. The northern area is pretty much a suburb of Cincinnati, and while you have some people who have country roots, the fact is that most people who live up there ACT like they live in a suburb of Cincinnati.
Around Lexington, it's the same.
Pretty much everywhere that's not a major urban center we seem to turn progressivly southern in our attitudes (stereotypical speaking: more conservatism, southern baptism, and the like).
I wouldn't really call it hunting season, but it's an economically depressed area, with a LOT of people on welfare, and a lot of people who never learned a proper work ethic as a result.
The farmers, they have a strong work ethic. The people who hunt are usually the people in the urban areas and the farmer types. Those with strong work ethics.
The people who go to work in the factories in the rural areas aren't either of those, but usually come from the lowered economic parts of the state, from my experience (friends who've worked there, and doing some temp work in a few myself when I needed extra money in the summer).

[Frank Hipper]

There's a huge, localised prejudice against Kentucky in Ohio and Michigan; "Briarhopper" is the local term there for people from south of the Ohio River.
Competition's fierce at the bottom of the heap; small industrial city midwestern backgrounds engender an attitude of superiority over the more rural Kentuckians that moved north during the 20s, 30s, and 40s, but those small cities are about half a step in advance of anywhere in Kentucky...

Honestly, I take anything pejorative said by anyone in that area about Kentucky with a massive grain of salt.
If production numbers back it up, that's one thing, but if it's something said in passing, don't accept it on face value.

[Mikal768]

...Briarhopper? I live near Cincinnati, and I've never heard that term. Is it a more northern Ohio/Michigan phrase? (since you said O/M I assume so...)

[Frank Hipper]

...Briarhopper? I live near Cincinnati, and I've never heard that term. Is it a more northern Ohio/Michigan phrase? (since you said O/M I assume so...)

I'm from Hamilton; it is an older generation thing, my parents and grandparents used it a lot.

[Mikal768]

Hamilton eh? Well hello there (near) neighbor. Heh. Sorry, slipping back OT...

[Lord of the Abyss]

How well are the employees treated/paid ? If they are underpaid and treated badly, they have no reason to feel any sort of loyalty or work ethic. On the other hand, if they are treated with kid gloves, they may not fear any consequences for bad work behavior.

[Frank Hipper]

Hamilton eh? Well hello there (near) neighbor. Heh. Sorry, slipping back OT...

Well, Hamilton's where I'm from; I live in Arizona now... but that's neither here nor there.

[Mikal768]

How well are the employees treated/paid ? If they are underpaid and treated badly, they have no reason to feel any sort of loyalty or work ethic. On the other hand, if they are treated with kid gloves, they may not fear any consequences for bad work behavior.

Depends on the area, again. In northern Ky they'd probably get from 12-20 bucks an hour before going into salaried positions, since it's a richer area.

In say.. Eastern Ky, I know people who are glad to get 10 bucks an hour doing the same job.

[Molyneux]

Becuase it's the south. It's the place where the black guys are really lazy and all the white guys are just as lazy but they're mad at the black guys for being so lazy.

(cookie for the reference)

Thank you very much, Peter Griffin ^_^

[Glocksman]

This is an old story, but way back when I worked at Kellogg, I found out that the Kentucky plant had around 10 times the product reject rate as the Etobicoke plant (indicating sloppy work), and around three times the rate of absenteeism. As one manager drily pointed out, it's as if they don't care to show up for work the minute hunting season starts. Does anyone here live in Kentucky who might be able to explain why we would see these kinds of figures? Is there a bad work ethic down there? Or are the Kellogg plants just staffed by remarkably useless union guys?

I live right on the IN/KY border and work with a lot of Kentuckians, and my guess is it's a combination of some people with a bad work ethic (some of them I work with have an excellent work ethic while others are plain useless) and a union that protects the deadwood.

I know that the Toyota plant in Georgetown was chosen to build their gas/electric hybrid Camry, rather than source it out of their Japanese plants, which speaks well for the quality of worker in Kentucky.

[Darth Mortis]

I live in Upper Ohio, near the lake, and I'll tell you what:

I would and do send my product to Kentucky to be built (simplistic cable assemblies) the labor is at about 6.50 an hour and 99% of the factories down there are tax exempt and will glady rebate you for business in the form of a refund check one a quarter.

I personally send business to Mexico, Kentucky, and here in Ohio, I have no reason, nor need to send anything to Canada or Europe, they bombed last time we gave them a chance, far too arrogant for the level of production they were persuing and quoted much to high. Especially Europe, their quality was so shitty that they don't even get a sniff of what we do (Medical Equipment for Cat Scans and PET's, computer board through connection device, all SMT, all high tech, mid-level quantity)

I also do not go to Taiwan or China, it's less cost effective then people believe and the ability to quickly solve issues is non-existant.

The point of my rant, holier than thou statements about capabilites do not make a business, commitment and problem solving + cost is what sells me.

No knock on any other country by the way, but I am just going by my personal opinion here.

[Darth Wong]

Personal opinions aside, a high rate of employee absenteeism is simply not good no matter how you try to spin it. But of course, as others have pointed out, it does not necessarily apply to the whole state of KY.

[Col. Crackpot]

There's a bigger issue here and it's with the rural South in general. People live a slower, simpler lifestyle down there. That lifestyle breeds people who lack the hustle and bustle of the more urbanized northerners. I know of a few people who have moved south chasing job offers from comapnies looking for someone with a northern education and work ethic. I have many Swainsboro GA/Briggs & Stratton stories... i think i've told a few.

[Darth Mortis]

Personal opinions aside, a high rate of employee absenteeism is simply not good no matter how you try to spin it. But of course, as others have pointed out, it does not necessarily apply to the whole state of KY.

I must point out that the Program Manager is Kentucky that is expediting my parts is, in fact, absent today.

I can cut the irony with a knife.....

[Cal Wright]

There's a bigger issue here and it's with the rural South in general. People live a slower, simpler lifestyle down there. That lifestyle breeds people who lack the hustle and bustle of the more urbanized northerners. I know of a few people who have moved south chasing job offers from comapnies looking for someone with a northern education and work ethic. I have many Swainsboro GA/Briggs & Stratton stories... i think i've told a few.

Yeah, because working in a field all day in the most fucked up humidity and tending to cattle hands all day leads to laziness.

[Darth Mortis]

There's a bigger issue here and it's with the rural South in general. People live a slower, simpler lifestyle down there. That lifestyle breeds people who lack the hustle and bustle of the more urbanized northerners. I know of a few people who have moved south chasing job offers from comapnies looking for someone with a northern education and work ethic. I have many Swainsboro GA/Briggs & Stratton stories... i think i've told a few.

Yeah, because working in a field all day in the most fucked up humidity and tending to cattle hands all day leads to laziness.

I agree, to try to say an entire population doesn't work as hard because of what piece of ground their foot hit when they were born does burn of ignorance.

I have plenty of Stories about Raytheon and they are up North....

The most intelligent and hardest worker I have is a warehouse manager from Arkansas.

[Edi]

I live in Upper Ohio, near the lake, and I'll tell you what:

I would and do send my product to Kentucky to be built (simplistic cable assemblies) the labor is at about 6.50 an hour and 99% of the factories down there are tax exempt and will glady rebate you for business in the form of a refund check one a quarter.

I personally send business to Mexico, Kentucky, and here in Ohio, I have no reason, nor need to send anything to Canada or Europe, they bombed last time we gave them a chance, far too arrogant for the level of production they were persuing and quoted much to high. Especially Europe, their quality was so shitty that they don't even get a sniff of what we do (Medical Equipment for Cat Scans and PET's, computer board through connection device, all SMT, all high tech, mid-level quantity)

I also do not go to Taiwan or China, it's less cost effective then people believe and the ability to quickly solve issues is non-existant.

The point of my rant, holier than thou statements about capabilites do not make a business, commitment and problem solving + cost is what sells me.

No knock on any other country by the way, but I am just going by my personal opinion here.

Just out of curiosity, where in Europe did you go shopping for production? As far as I understand, at least Finland is known for pretty high quality medical equipment manufacturing, it was one of the reasons GE acquired Instrumentarium (and Datex-Ohmeda, which was part of the same group). They are now subsidiaries of GE Medical, which has pretty extensive operations in Europe.

Edi

[m112880]

I live in louisville and it depends on where you go in kentucky. In any of the citys. I got peoplwho work for me and are late. And I got many of people who work for me who are also on time and eager to work.
But the problem with kentucy is when you get out of the citys and into the countryside the quality of life and the people change. One of the main changes is that quality of education drops. There is also a major mexican population (Not saying anything bad about them). Now problems that companys are having is that they are putting plants out in the rural areas because employment cost and land values are less. But the work force is not as well educated. Plus people are use to a different way of life.

Now Kentucky does have a good work force. Ford has 2 plants, GM, Toyato, GE, Coke-cola all have lants. Papa Johns is located here, and UPS main hub is here. But there all located in citys.

[Darth Mortis]

I live in Upper Ohio, near the lake, and I'll tell you what:

I would and do send my product to Kentucky to be built (simplistic cable assemblies) the labor is at about 6.50 an hour and 99% of the factories down there are tax exempt and will glady rebate you for business in the form of a refund check one a quarter.

I personally send business to Mexico, Kentucky, and here in Ohio, I have no reason, nor need to send anything to Canada or Europe, they bombed last time we gave them a chance, far too arrogant for the level of production they were persuing and quoted much to high. Especially Europe, their quality was so shitty that they don't even get a sniff of what we do (Medical Equipment for Cat Scans and PET's, computer board through connection device, all SMT, all high tech, mid-level quantity)

I also do not go to Taiwan or China, it's less cost effective then people believe and the ability to quickly solve issues is non-existant.

The point of my rant, holier than thou statements about capabilites do not make a business, commitment and problem solving + cost is what sells me.

No knock on any other country by the way, but I am just going by my personal opinion here.

Just out of curiosity, where in Europe did you go shopping for production? As far as I understand, at least Finland is known for pretty high quality medical equipment manufacturing, it was one of the reasons GE acquired Instrumentarium (and Datex-Ohmeda, which was part of the same group). They are now subsidiaries of GE Medical, which has pretty extensive operations in Europe.

Edi

I build for Royal Philips, which, is based out on Norway, fyi!

I tried France twice, Ireland, and Finland.

Finland is priced to High, I agree their work is fine (I have sampled some GE boards built there) but it was 89.50 american in labor in Kentucky and 107.55 in Finland. Plus we get a quarterly refund if we hit our production goals and that was the kicker, plus I can drive my ass down there if they screw up.

Now I have been to Finland, the women on the other hand......

Better to have that conversation another time!

[SirNitram]

There's a bigger issue here and it's with the rural South in general. People live a slower, simpler lifestyle down there. That lifestyle breeds people who lack the hustle and bustle of the more urbanized northerners. I know of a few people who have moved south chasing job offers from comapnies looking for someone with a northern education and work ethic. I have many Swainsboro GA/Briggs & Stratton stories... i think i've told a few.

I'm gonna have to say that it's wrong to say this is a problem with the rural South; it's rural anything which breeds this slow paced, I-don't-gotta-rush mindset. I've seen it in rural Connecticut, I've seen it in rural England, and I'll bet some donuts the Canadians, Germans, and everything else can relate stories of the rural nutbars who just don't work as hard.

[Edi]

I build for Royal Philips, which, is based out on Norway, fyi!

I tried France twice, Ireland, and Finland.

Finland is priced to High, I agree their work is fine (I have sampled some GE boards built there) but it was 89.50 american in labor in Kentucky and 107.55 in Finland. Plus we get a quarterly refund if we hit our production goals and that was the kicker, plus I can drive my ass down there if they screw up.

I figured it would probably have been the cost, labor here is generally expensive. Our labor market does need some restructuring, only the unions are opposed to any changes that do not (in effect) increase the cost of labor. The paper industry got sick and tired of the demands of the Paper Workers' Union here after over six months of negotiating with no results and constant small strikes, so they slapped a blockout in place and shut down the factories for almost two months. The workers were all confident that the companies would cave in soon because they couldn't afford the losses, but they hadn't realized the industry had decided to play hardball after years of taking crap from the union. It was ugly, but the Union had to cave on its most strident demands.

Now I have been to Finland, the women on the other hand......

Better to have that conversation another time!

Indeed. But next time you're coming in this direction, drop me a PM in advance. It'd be nice to meet more SDnetters, but this place is rather out of the way...

Edi