Stunning illiteracy in Alabama and Mississippi

[sketerpot]

Over in another thread, Toyota was deciding to build a new plant in Canada instead of the US because, among other things, illiteracy in some southern states is really bad. The two examples given were Alabama and Mississippi.

How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.

The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.

Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.

In comparison, most states have somewhere around 10% at level 1 and 30% at level 1 or 2. What the hell has been going on down south? Is it a poor education system, or anti-intellectual social attitudes, or corruption leading school money to be used very inefficiently, or what?

[Lord of the Abyss]

Here's what I said in the other thread ( it's actually more appropriate here ) :

I've heard a theory about the connection between illiteracy and religion.

Here's the idea : Belief sustems are transmitted two ways, vertically down the family lines, or horizontally across family lines. If you want to promote religion, you don't want literacy because it can interfere with family tradition. If you're trying to spread a non-traditional ideology, you want as much literacy as possible so that people can be bombarded with whatever propaganda you're pushing. According to the theory, this is why Marxists tend to push for high literacy, while the highly religious tend not to.

Of course, literacy is useful for more than propaganda, while illiterate religiousity is a complete dead end.

Personally I buy this idea; I doubt it's a coincidence that the regions most known for fundieism are so ignorant and illiterate.

[Mr Bean]

I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

My god- I feel absolutly sickened when I read those stastics. How the fuck did anyone mange to fuck up education that badly in those states?

[Molyneux]

All of the above, quite possibly?

There's also always the possibility that the study is skewed, somehow. Not likely, though.

[sketerpot]

I've heard a theory about the connection between illiteracy and religion.

Here's the idea : Belief sustems are transmitted two ways, vertically down the family lines, or horizontally across family lines. If you want to promote religion, you don't want literacy because it can interfere with family tradition. If you're trying to spread a non-traditional ideology, you want as much literacy as possible so that people can be bombarded with whatever propaganda you're pushing. According to the theory, this is why Marxists tend to push for high literacy, while the highly religious tend not to.

There's a nice saying that I think is appropriate here: "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." That theory sounds too much like a grand conspiracy, with people consciously trying to promote illiteracy to preserve family tradition.

Instead, try looking at it as the result of at least two factors:

1. Illiteracy, like literacy, propagates itself along families. I wonder where I would be today if my parents hadn't been so enthusiastically into recreational reading that they had me happily reading adult books in first grade. Religiosity also propagates along family lines, and if it's paired with illiteracy, the combination of a lack of outside influences and religiously-related anti-intellectualism can be devastating.

2. People are stubborn, and often stupid. I know a lot of people who say that they "hate reading", and the more you try to persuade them otherwise, the more they'll come to vehemently despise reading and learning and all that square shit.

[SyntaxVorlon]

I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?

You don't have to be a moron to be uneducated, the average intelligence is probably not drastically different from one state to another. It's just that in the south there is enough of a stigma around high education and a big enough agrarian community to get around the need to be literate. Joe goatfucker from Backwardsass, AL is more likely to A. Skim through school because he doesn't need it to work in the factory, mill, farm, whathaveyou, B. have a higher affinity for sports and entertainment that doesn't require a manual and thus can use sports throughout school as a crutch, C has been indoctrinated since infancy that all he needs is a personal connection to god.
Note, for all the southerners here, that's just a statistical outlook for Joe.

[Darth Wong]

I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?

Probably in the rural areas. That's where morons normally hang out.

[Lord of the Abyss]

There's a nice saying that I think is appropriate here: "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." That theory sounds too much like a grand conspiracy, with people consciously trying to promote illiteracy to preserve family tradition.

Instead, try looking at it as the result of at least two factors:

1. Illiteracy, like literacy, propagates itself along families. I wonder where I would be today if my parents hadn't been so enthusiastically into recreational reading that they had me happily reading adult books in first grade. Religiosity also propagates along family lines, and if it's paired with illiteracy, the combination of a lack of outside influences and religiously-related anti-intellectualism can be devastating.

2. People are stubborn, and often stupid. I know a lot of people who say that they "hate reading", and the more you try to persuade them otherwise, the more they'll come to vehemently despise reading and learning and all that square shit.

Actually, it's based on the idea of memes ( let's not get into an arguement over whether they exist; at worst, they are a useful metaphor ). Conspiracy is not usually involved; instead, religions that keep people from too much exposure to other ideas have historically survived and spread better than more open religions. That is, up into recent times, when outside economic/technological forces put such religions at a major disadvantage.

And illiteracy has sometimes been consciously promoted, like with the slaves of the Old South. At least some of the powerful have always recognized literacy as a danger, so don't rule malice out.

[Darth Wong]

In parts of the country where "intellectual" is considered an insult, it's hardly surprising that there would be a high illiteracy rate.

[Chmee]

How the fuck did anyone mange to fuck up education that badly in those states?

God's Will, obviously.

[Cal Wright]

I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?

Thank you Bean! I saw this, and was like, they must be measuring from all cups. There are some rural uneducated portions of Alabama, and mind you, Huntsville is the third or fourth I believe now largest city in the state, and we're not that big. Funny thing about this article is Sporkzen just got hired on at the Toyata plant here. LoL!

[18-Till-I-Die]

Personally i dont understand it at all. I mean, if i couldnt READ i dont know what i'd do with my life, half my day i read shit, either on the internet or one of the like mountains of books my mom has (it's like a freakin' library in her room). I may not be exactly 'intellectual', and yes i have trouble spelling, but reading is so important i cant understand why people dont make it an issue to stamp out things like this as much as possible.

Then again i suppose it's easier to control a populationw hen they largely cant read and thus can only gather information from what you tell them. You control the flow of information, and you control the population. It rhymes in a sick kind of way.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Personally i dont understand it at all. I mean, if i couldnt READ i dont know what i'd do with my life, half my day i read shit, either on the internet or one of the like mountains of books my mom has (it's like a freakin' library in her room). I may not be exactly 'intellectual', and yes i have trouble spelling, but reading is so important i cant understand why people dont make it an issue to stamp out things like this as much as possible.

I guess it's one of things where if you've never done it, you don't know what you're missing.

[Trytostaydead]

I don't doubt it. Was in rural Louisiana back in high school for a week. The school over there was interesting. Most of the teachers I believe were from that Americorps I believe. There were barely any classrooms, mostly office dividers. Instead of computer classes, they had type writing. Shop and farming were the big courses.

[Lord Zentei]

<snippy>
How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.

The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.

Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.

<snippy>

Holy crap.

And if the rural areas are where the illiterates are hanging out, I shudder to think what the statistics must be like for those areas specifically.

[Glocksman]

Over in another thread, Toyota was deciding to build a new plant in Canada instead of the US because, among other things, illiteracy in some southern states is really bad. The two examples given were Alabama and Mississippi.

How bad is it? Well, check out the results of a US government-commissioned report on illiteracy nationwide, specifically the entries for Mississippi and Alabama.

The report found that in Alabama, 25% of adults were at "Level 1", which means either completely illiterate or functionally illiterate. If you include Level 2 in illiteracy, which is an 8th grade literacy level and still very pathetic, the number comes up to 57%.

Mississippi was even worse. At Level 1, they had an awe-inspiring 30% of adults. When you include Level 2 as well, the illiteracy rate is 64%. Louisiana, Florida, and South Carolina were also in the bottom.

In comparison, most states have somewhere around 10% at level 1 and 30% at level 1 or 2. What the hell has been going on down south? Is it a poor education system, or anti-intellectual social attitudes, or corruption leading school money to be used very inefficiently, or what?

Look at the same numbers for:

New York
Percent at Level 1: 24
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 50

California
Percent at Level 1: 24
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 46

Massachusetts
Percent at Level 1: 16
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 40

Iowa
Percent at Level 1: 13
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 38

Indiana
Percent at Level 1: 16
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 43

Kentucky
Percent at Level 1: 19
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 54

Illinois
Percent at Level 1: 20
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 44

Nebraska
Percent at Level 1: 13
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 36

New Jersey
Percent at Level 1: 21
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 48

West Virginia
Percent at Level 1: 20
Percent at Level 1 or 2: 56

It's not just rural Southerners who can't read.

[Master of Ossus]

Jesus! How is it even possible to function in society without being able to read? This is incredible. I literally do not know how I could even live without being able to read English.

[sketerpot]

Look at the same numbers for:

[snip]
It's not just rural Southerners who can't read.

Sure, although the worst states are southern ones. I broaden my question: what the hell is wrong with literacy rates here?

[Lord of the Abyss]

Jesus! How is it even possible to function in society without being able to read? This is incredible. I literally do not know how I could even live without being able to read English.

They can't function all that well, that's probably a major reasion for the poverty of these regions. What kind of a job can you get if you can't read, and how can you train yourself to do better ? Bad jobs, and you can't.

[Lord Poe]

I've been, spent time and lived in/next to Alamaba, were are all of the morons hiding when I was there?

That's "where were all of the morons," Lord of Irony!

[darthdavid]

There's a reason new york is like it is. Most of the states area and a large portion of it's population is rural. NYC has like half the states pop, then the other large cities have a bunch of it but there's still a lot of rural fucktards to drag down the rating. Trust me, I live with them. My school is rural and has some of the worst test scores in the area and probably ranks pretty low on the list for the whole state.

[darthdavid]

This isn't making sense to me. I think my hypothesis is wrong. I live in seneca county and it has higher literacy rates than all the urban counties. I think either the study is flawed (unlikely) or I am. This throws the "rural fuckwad theory on why new york state isn't doing so well in the rankings" right out the window.

[Darth Wong]

It's not just rural Southerners who can't read.

The New York and California numbers are probably skewed by the presence of large numbers of non English-speakers.

[Coyote]

Unfortunately, we live in a society where it is very easy to get by without having to read or write. Think of a guy that works in the dregs of the construction industry, where physical work and strength is all that is needed. They go home and plop down in fron of the TV, which talks to them. Then they repeat theprocess the next day. They rarely, if ever, need to read.

I doubt that they are totally incapable. They probably know their letters and can read a handful of words that are necessary to them ("Budweiser" "Chevy" "Stop" "Walmart") but beyond that, a lot of things are written in cartoon for the non-English speakers, and if you live in a low-intellect job, it just never comes into play.

It is hard for us to function like that, but we're used to interacting with others.