Romanian nun dies during torturelike excorcism

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Romanian nun dies during torturelike excorcism

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Couldn't find this posted here so I thought that I would put it up there.


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usatoday wrote:TANACU, Romania — A Romanian Orthodox priest, facing charges for ordering the crucifixion of a young nun because she was "possessed by the devil," was unrepentant Saturday as he celebrated a funeral ceremony for his alleged victim.

Nuns from the Tajacu monastery mourn Irina, ordered crucified by a Romanian Orthodox priest.
Daniel Mihailescu, AFP/Getty

"God has performed a miracle for her, finally Irina is delivered from evil," Father Daniel, 29, the superior of the Holy Trinity monastery in north-eastern Romania, told an AFP reporter before celebrating a short liturgy "for the soul of the deceased", in the presence of 13 nuns who showed no visible emotion.

He insisted that from the religious point of view the crucifixion of Maricica Irina Cornici, 23, was "entirely justified," but admitted he faced excommunication as well as prosecution, and was seeking a "good lawyer."

Prosecutors said Saturday they had charged the priest and four nuns with imprisonment leading to death, while religious authorities said he would be barred from celebrating liturgy until the investigation was completed. The monastery will be shut if they are found guilty, Father Daniel's superiors said.

Cornici was found dead on Wednesday, gagged and chained to a cross, after fellow nuns called an ambulance, according to police.

Mihaela Straub, spokeswoman for the police in the province of Vaslui, said Daniel and four other nuns had claimed Cornici was possessed and should be exorcised.

Before being crucified she had been kept shut up for several days, her hands and feet tied and without food or drink, he said.

Cornici had entered the monastery just three months before, after visiting a friend who was a nun there, police said.

As her coffin entered the church of the monastery Saturday no church bells were sounded while nuns cast distrustful glances at the strangers, including two AFP reporters, present at the ceremony.

Claps of thunder from an approaching storm were sometimes the only sounds to break the silence.

"This storm is proof that the will of God has been done," Daniel said.

"You see it?" said the priest, gesturing at the body, lying in an annexe and still showing the marks of the gag.


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Father Daniel

Daniel has lived for the past four years in the isolated monastery located in the hills of one of the poorest regions of Romania, without running water or electricity.

"Over there, in your world, the people must know that the devil exists. Personally I can find his work in the gestures and speech of possessed people, because man is often weak and lets himself be easily manipulated by the forces of evil," said the bearded young priest.

"I don't understand why journalists are making such a fuss about this. Exorcism is a common practise in the heart of the Romanian Orthodox church and my methods are not at all unknown to other priests," he said.

Sociologist Alred Bulai said that corporal punishment was still commonly used in certain Romanian monasteries.

"It's happening particularly in the isolated monasteries, where the superiors have difficulty understanding the current realities and adapting themselves to modern life," Bulai said.

It was not clear why Father Daniel believed the nun was possessed. One parishoner, Dora, said the nun "had to be punished, she had an argument with the Father during a Sunday mass and insulted him in front of the congregation."

Mediafax news agency reported Saturday that the Cornici had recently been treated for "schizophrenia" at the local hospital, but the chief of the local child welfare office, Ionel Bratianu, said the nun was "in good health and did not suffer from any psychiatric trouble."

Cornici was raised in an orphanage until the age of 19, when she traveled to Germany to work as a nanny for a family of German doctors. After in-depth psychological and psychiatric tests, the German embassy had declared her apt to take care of children, said Bratianu.

Since the fall of the communist regime in December 1989, the Orthodox Church, which represents 85% of Romania's 22 million inhabitants, is rated in many opinion polls as the most trusted institution in the country.

Vitalie Danciu, the superior of a nearby monastery at Golia, called the crucifixion "inexcusable," but a spokesman for the Orthodox patriarchate in Bucharest refused to condemn it.

"I don't know what this young woman did," Bogdan Teleanu said.
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

I alway here that people religion make people behave morally.If this is "moral",I shudder to think what "immoral" behavior is like.
Seriously,I know Romania isn't the apex of human culture,but I would have thought they were past the Middle Ages.
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Post by wautd »

mindboggling...
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Post by Genii Lodus »

Hard to believe that in the 21st century such ignorance, superstition, idiocy etc exists.

I recognise that communities of monks/nuns etc have some interesting positives to them but, aside from always being an atheist, it's not a life I could ever lead because I could never overcome the suspicion of these isolated, insular communities. There's a nunnery about ten minutes walk from my house but I have only ever seen nuns from it three or four times. I guess its xenophobia which I've always casually assumed I never had.

Hopefully the priest in question will get a nice long prison sentence and he'll realise that his religion does not accept such behaviour and that he's going to the bad place (not that there is one but it'll give him something to live in terror of).
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Post by Darth Wong »

Vitalie Danciu, the superior of a nearby monastery at Golia, called the crucifixion "inexcusable," but a spokesman for the Orthodox patriarchate in Bucharest refused to condemn it.

"I don't know what this young woman did," Bogdan Teleanu said.
Says it all, really. The Church always defends its own. And even as we speak, the Vatican continues to argue that it's wrong to automatically defrock Catholic priests who molest children.
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Post by Steven Snyder »

Maybe this guy forgot that crucifixion is a form of execution...
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:I alway here that people religion make people behave morally.If this is "moral",I shudder to think what "immoral" behavior is like.
Seriously,I know Romania isn't the apex of human culture,but I would have thought they were past the Middle Ages.
Immoral in their view = tolerate of homosexuals and other cultures provided they don't harm us first, using condoms and acknowledging the overwhelming evidence of evolution.

On another note, I saw this article in my local paper as well. I say we "deliver" ourselves from evil and execute the fucker. When he dies or goes to jail its "proof that God's will can be overcome by man's laws."
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Post by Comosicus »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:I alway here that people religion make people behave morally.If this is "moral",I shudder to think what "immoral" behavior is like.
Seriously,I know Romania isn't the apex of human culture,but I would have thought they were past the Middle Ages.
The deeds of a few people do not become the deeds of an entire nation. There are still comunities (mostly isolated ones) that live by the old customs and traditions, although in a good way. But when ignorance pairs with religious "fanatism", that can be a bad combination.

It's sad to know that people in XXIth century can think like that. And it's even more sad to know that this is another black stain on the image of Romania.
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Post by wautd »

Genii Lodus wrote:Hard to believe that in the 21st century such ignorance, superstition, idiocy etc exists.
in lighter news...
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Post by Thinkmarble »

Comosicus wrote:. There are still comunities (mostly isolated ones) that live by the old customs and traditions, although in a good way.
I doubt that that is actually possible.
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Post by The Morrigan »

Genii Lodus wrote:Hard to believe that in the 21st century such ignorance, superstition, idiocy etc exists.
Not really. You hear no end of stories about communities (usually isolated ones) where superstition still prevails over science. I guess not all people have access to the wide range of information that people living in, for example, urban Australia or the United States.
After all, this is completely straightforward. What could possibly go wrong?

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Post by Spoonist »

It's what happens when you place people in a position of power without a counterbalance of the persons actions.

Religion just becomes an excuse to enforce the power and remove those who question the power.


What is most depressing is that the monestary in question could go throuh with the burial themselves, and that the church will not condemn the use of excorcism as an excuse for abuse.
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Post by Comosicus »

As far as the newspapers say around here, a possible cause of the overall phenomenon lies in the comunist opression on monasteries. After '89, in their zeal to have as many monasteries up and running, the Romanian Orthodox Church reduced the stricness in adopting new "brothers" and as such many people found a safe haven in the monasteries. Also the policy in ascending to priesthood for the monks have been a bit lax.

This could be an explanation for the fact that such people got into their position. But is not an excuse for such an abominal behaviour.
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Post by Comosicus »

Thinkmarble wrote:
Comosicus wrote:. There are still comunities (mostly isolated ones) that live by the old customs and traditions, although in a good way.
I doubt that that is actually possible.
There are a lot of valuable ancient customs and traditions that deserve being preserved. After all, these traditions have standed for more then 2000 years. And the customs I am speaking about have nothing to do with idiocy and ignorance backed by religious zeal. In fact most of the customs of pre-christian origin are more tolerant and aimed towards people and their well being than the christian ones are.
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Post by Morilore »

Comosicus wrote:There are a lot of valuable ancient customs and traditions that deserve being preserved.
Why?
After all, these traditions have standed for more then 2000 years.
So?
And the customs I am speaking about have nothing to do with idiocy and ignorance backed by religious zeal.
If you show me an ancient, isolated cultural enclave that doesn't have asshatterish rules and customs I will be truly shocked.
In fact most of the customs of pre-christian origin are more tolerant and aimed towards people and their well being than the christian ones are.
I might believe this, if it were not so vague as to be effectively unfalsifiable.
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Post by That NOS Guy »

St. Paul throws a demon, a very powerful one, out of a little girl by using the name of God according to the bible.

What? Apparently the power of Christ isn't good enough anymore?

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Post by Comosicus »

Morilore wrote:
Comosicus wrote:There are a lot of valuable ancient customs and traditions that deserve being preserved.
Why?
Cultural and national identity ring any bells?

Morilore wrote:
Comosicus wrote:And the customs I am speaking about have nothing to do with idiocy and ignorance backed by religious zeal.
If you show me an ancient, isolated cultural enclave that doesn't have asshatterish rules and customs I will be truly shocked.
I was not speaking about any sort of reservation or amish enclaves, but of small rural comunities, usually in the mountains, that are not so much touched by the cosmopolitan tendency that runs wild in Romania today. They still preserve the traditional clothing, customs, songs, dances. And these need to be preserved.

It is true that there are still practices of old rituals, like young virgins dancing naked to bring rain from the skies (Paparude) or a lot of other superstitions, but as far as common sence is involved, they're just harmless curiosities.

There are also beliefs in curses and living dead (strigoi) and charms and things like that, but usually these are the exception. As it is the case that it is discussed here: an ignorant lunatic helped by some women behaving like brainwashed, causing one's death, with the firm belief that what they are doing is good.

Anyway, my point is that you can't judge an entire people after the deeds of one person. There will always be lunatics and ignorant religious zealots and other specimens like that. But this is not a reason to place labels with ease.

I think that those involved in this tragedy should get their punishment according to the law. And I'll stop this for now because it is midnight and I am tired and can't think as clear as I would want to.
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Post by Exonerate »

Wow. Just wow. I'm stunned. AFTER THEIR FUCKING MARTYR WAS EXECUTED BY CRUCIFIXATION THEY DECIDED TRY IT ON AN NUN?!?

Shit like this is the only reason I still support the death penalty.

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Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

That NOS Guy wrote:St. Paul throws a demon, a very powerful one, out of a little girl by using the name of God according to the bible.

What? Apparently the power of Christ isn't good enough anymore?

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Maybe the priest doesn't know God's name. OTOH, according to Kabbalah, you only need a shofar (ram's horn) and a Hebrew prayer to cast out demons. Maybe next exorcism they'll call in some outside contractors to take care of it.
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Post by Morilore »

Comosicus wrote:Cultural and national identity ring any bells?
Yeah, I guess I just don't find them important.
I was not speaking about any sort of reservation or amish enclaves, but of small rural comunities, usually in the mountains, that are not so much touched by the cosmopolitan tendency that runs wild in Romania today. They still preserve the traditional clothing, customs, songs, dances.
Good for them. I don't see why that's so special, but maybe that's just me.
And these need to be preserved.
Okay, let me try another tack: how?
It is true that there are still practices of old rituals, like young virgins dancing naked to bring rain from the skies (Paparude) or a lot of other superstitions, but as far as common sence is involved, they're just harmless curiosities.

There are also beliefs in curses and living dead (strigoi) and charms and things like that, but usually these are the exception. As it is the case that it is discussed here: an ignorant lunatic helped by some women behaving like brainwashed, causing one's death, with the firm belief that what they are doing is good.
I'm not talking about the superstitions, I'm talking about the traditions. And you can't tell me that the rural communities you speak of won't have stupid or destructive traditions.
Anyway, my point is that you can't judge an entire people after the deeds of one person. There will always be lunatics and ignorant religious zealots and other specimens like that. But this is not a reason to place labels with ease.
Of course not. But you can note the general correlation of ruralism = traditionalist/fundamentalist idiodicy that seems present everywhere.
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Post by Crayz9000 »

That fuckwad had better get excommunicated and especially executed for this. By any standards this was simply inexcusable, I don't care what the fuck kind of excuse he gives. You just don't do that. This isn't 1st century BC Rome.
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Post by Comosicus »

Morilore wrote:
Comosicus wrote:Cultural and national identity ring any bells?
Yeah, I guess I just don't find them important.
I was not speaking about any sort of reservation or amish enclaves, but of small rural comunities, usually in the mountains, that are not so much touched by the cosmopolitan tendency that runs wild in Romania today. They still preserve the traditional clothing, customs, songs, dances.
Good for them. I don't see why that's so special, but maybe that's just me.
And these need to be preserved.
Okay, let me try another tack: how?
By teaching them to the children, by festivals, by dedicated TV shows, by documentary films (like those on National Geographic or Discovery Channell). When you have a folkloric culture 2000 years old, you can just let it vanish. It is for the same reason UNESCO has programs for languages threatened by disparition and other stuff like that. The "melting pot" might be the future, but now it is more like a blender and I think it is too early to cut the roots and let them die.

I won't go further on this subject here, because it might turn into a thread hijack.

Morilore wrote:
Comosicus wrote:It is true that there are still practices of old rituals, like young virgins dancing naked to bring rain from the skies (Paparude) or a lot of other superstitions, but as far as common sence is involved, they're just harmless curiosities.

There are also beliefs in curses and living dead (strigoi) and charms and things like that, but usually these are the exception. As it is the case that it is discussed here: an ignorant lunatic helped by some women behaving like brainwashed, causing one's death, with the firm belief that what they are doing is good.
I'm not talking about the superstitions, I'm talking about the traditions. And you can't tell me that the rural communities you speak of won't have stupid or destructive traditions.
Anyway, my point is that you can't judge an entire people after the deeds of one person. There will always be lunatics and ignorant religious zealots and other specimens like that. But this is not a reason to place labels with ease.
Of course not. But you can note the general correlation of ruralism = traditionalist/fundamentalist idiodicy that seems present everywhere.
Unfortunately you are pretty right here. I think it was the frustration in me speaking, because the vast majority of news regarding Romania in international press has as subject corruption, murders, and other negative events. While these things are true (and can't go under the carpet), the "good" news don't pop up as often and are mostly disregarded, most probably because they are not sensational enough.
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Post by Comosicus »

Crayz9000 wrote:That fuckwad had better get excommunicated and especially executed for this. By any standards this was simply inexcusable, I don't care what the fuck kind of excuse he gives. You just don't do that. This isn't 1st century BC Rome.
Unfortunately, after '89, death penalty was abolished (most probably because the new leaders were afraid they will end like Ceausescu).

But the bastard deserves to rot in jail.
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Post by That NOS Guy »

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Maybe the priest doesn't know God's name. OTOH, according to Kabbalah, you only need a shofar (ram's horn) and a Hebrew prayer to cast out demons. Maybe next exorcism they'll call in some outside contractors to take care of it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Eastern Orthodox church still use a bible and/or a variation of?
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Post by Surlethe »

That NOS Guy wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Maybe the priest doesn't know God's name. OTOH, according to Kabbalah, you only need a shofar (ram's horn) and a Hebrew prayer to cast out demons. Maybe next exorcism they'll call in some outside contractors to take care of it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Eastern Orthodox church still use a bible and/or a variation of?
I do believe so. The Eastern Orthodox Church split from the Catholic Church in 1054, so the Bible had already been established as canon.
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