The secret route to war in Iraq

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2005-06-08 08:44am

link

An article in "The New York Review for Books". It details the planning for the Iraq war.

What really bugged me was this passage:

The aide said that guys like me [i.e., reporters and commentators] were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Emphasis mine. Talk about inflated egos....

Your thoughts about the article? [/url]

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2005-06-09 01:29am

That's a kind of old quote. It has been floating around for a while. Unfortunately, the concept that truth is irrelevant and should be manipulated, distorted, or even rejected for political goals is integral to neoconservative movement. Bill Moyers did a most illuminating interview with one of the oldest conservative "journalists." He specifically said that reality is relative and journalists should not feel bound to some abstract notion of truth.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2005-06-09 01:34am

Johonebesus wrote:That's a kind of old quote. It has been floating around for a while. Unfortunately, the concept that truth is irrelevant and should be manipulated, distorted, or even rejected for political goals is integral to neoconservative movement. Bill Moyers did a most illuminating interview with one of the oldest conservative "journalists." He specifically said that reality is relative and journalists should not feel bound to some abstract notion of truth.

Fuck, the concept is intergral to POLITICS period. Ever since the first warlord sheepishly held his bloody sword behind his back and said "Uh, I'm king because I killed the previou.... Uh, I mean, I'm having this divine right! Yeah, from God! That's it! Toss me that crown and those wenches, will you?" people in power have used "truth" to their own best interests. This is no neocon phenomenon.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2005-06-09 02:33am

Neoconservatives did not invent deception. However, they have institutionally embraced the idea that that the leaders should deceive the folks to rule them effectively. Some call this the Big Lie. There have always been politicians who have felt the need to lie about specific things for specific reasons, whether national security or personal enrichment, but the Neocons believe as a matter of political philosophy that the only way to effectively rule the people is to indoctrinate them with myths to secure personal and social stability, because the truth leads to nihilism and anarchy.

And of course you are demonstrating one of the worst myths in American politics: all politicians are bad, so you cannot point out one group or party as being really bad. This is seen in the typical argument, "yeah, well, democrats did this and that, so they're just as bad." It is a major cause of voter apathy. The way this sentiment is being turned towards the news media due to certain "scandals," in which questions over sources overshadowed the basic veracity of the stories, leads me to wonder how much is just happy coincidence (for the neocons) and how much is calculated manipulation.

Mopeyennuui · Post by **Mopeyennuui** » 2005-06-09 03:20am

Everything is controlled by the christian leadership of primarily amer* churches. Wait.. canada and mexico are next. The great experment has failed when that was said.