China Cancels High Level Visit With Japan Over Shrine

[Aaron]

CBC.CA

BEIJING (AP) - China on Tuesday cited its anger over a Tokyo war shrine when explaining why it abruptly pulled out of talks with Japan's prime minister, while Japanese officials indicated they expected an apology for the snub in a new surge of tensions between the two Asian heavyweights.

The flap over Chinese Vice-Premier Wu Yi's cancelled meeting with Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi in Tokyo on Monday sparked the most heated exchange in weeks between the two neighbours as they seek to ratchet down rancour that unleashed violent anti-Japanese protests in China last month.

The Chinese government said it was upset over remarks Japanese leaders made during Wu's eight-day trip about visits to the Yakusuni Shrine, which honours war dead, including convicted war criminals. China's state-run Xinhua news agency criticized Koizumi for what it said was his remark that he didn't see why he should stop visiting the memorial.

"We are very dissatisfied that Japanese leaders have made repeated remarks that are negative for the development of better relations during Madame Wu's visit to Japan, which have deprived such meetings of necessary conditions and atmosphere," Foreign Ministry spokesman Kong Quan said.

Japanese officials on Tuesday denounced the abrupt cancellation, with Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura complaining to reporters in Tokyo that "there was no word of apology."

"In terms of manners, it lacked common sense," Japan's Internal Affairs Minister Taro Aso said.

Wu's was the first high-level Chinese visit to Japan in more than a year, part of efforts to smooth over relations in the wake of last month's riots in China over Japan's Second World War aggression, and Beijing's resistance to Tokyo's bid for a permanent UN Security Council seat.

Thousands of rioters took to the streets and damaged the Japanese Embassy in Beijing and the consulate in Shanghai as police stood by. They also smashed windows at restaurants serving Japanese food and overturned cars.

Underscoring those disputes is the two powers' long-standing rivalry for economic and political dominance in Asia.

Beijing has long been angered by Koizumi's annual pilgrimages to a Tokyo war shrine, saying they ignore Chinese sensitivities and pay homage to Japan's militarist past.

On Sunday, Chinese President Hu Jintao met Japanese ruling party lawmakers in Beijing and reportedly expressed Beijing's displeasure at Koizumi's visits to the Yasukuni Shrine.

Koizumi, who has visited the shrine four times since 2001, refused last week to vow not to worship there again this year, repeating his statement that he would decide "appropriately" when to pay homage to Japan's war dead.

"I don't understand why Yasukuni visits are linked to militarism," Koizumi told a Parliament committee.

"China says (Japan) should show through its actions that it is reflecting on the war, but in the 60 years since the war Japan has shown it has reflected on the war by . . . staying true to its word never to wage war," he added.

I swear to Zeus the Chinese remind me of schoolyard bullies. Why shouldn't the Japanese honour their war dead like every other nation. The Jews don't bitch when Germans honour their dead.

[Dahak]

I swear to Zeus the Chinese remind me of schoolyard bullies. Why shouldn't the Japanese honour their war dead like every other nation. The Jews don't bitch when Germans honour their dead.

We don't honour our dead war criminals and fellow Nazis.
If you did that, the shitstorm raised by various interest and political groups could be seen from Pluto. Even honouring the Wehrmacht, or portraying it in a good light, will get you in public trouble (there was a Wehrmacht exhibition that caused waves and waves of controvery and public outcries...)
We honour the victims.

[Sharp-kun]

We don't honour our dead war criminals and fellow Nazis.

The thing is that this shrine honours far more than just those that died in WW2.

[Dahak]

We don't honour our dead war criminals and fellow Nazis.

The thing is that this shrine honours far more than just those that died in WW2.

But also convicted war criminals.
I can see why the Chinese are so touchy about that.

[Drunk Monkey]

those basterds are just causin truble

[Zed Snardbody]

those basterds are just causin truble

You need to be a little more specific

[Zed Snardbody]

I wish a country with a better international standing than China was calling Japan on this stuff. The Koreans seem to be quiet.

[Drunk Monkey]

those basterds are just causin truble

You need to be a little more specific

all they want is Japan to do what they want to satisfy there egos

[salm]

I swear to Zeus the Chinese remind me of schoolyard bullies. Why shouldn't the Japanese honour their war dead like every other nation. The Jews don't bitch when Germans honour their dead.

We don't honour our dead war criminals and fellow Nazis.
If you did that, the shitstorm raised by various interest and political groups could be seen from Pluto. Even honouring the Wehrmacht, or portraying it in a good light, will get you in public trouble (there was a Wehrmacht exhibition that caused waves and waves of controvery and public outcries...)
We honour the victims.

Actually we honour the fallen soldiers from WWII. There are memorials all over the place.

Here´s one from Berlin and one from some little Hicktown:

[Zed Snardbody]

Nice Style.

[General Brock]

Drunk Monkey wrote:

all they want is Japan to do what they want to satisfy there egos

Well, the Jews continue to exact monetary reparations, and erect holocaust monuments all over the place, even though the Germans have reonunced their actions druing WWII and come clean. China is not even asking that much; just an apology and corrections to their history texts, so I don't see how China can be accused of excessive ego.

The Japanese likely feel they owe China no apologies, because it was the Americans who defeated them. Of course, had the Chinese had been more willing imperial subjects, Japan would have had more resources to delay the Americans, or perhaps never gone to war.

The Japanese have never owned up to their crimes in any meaningful way. The Yakusune shrine is dedicated to Samurai, not the pretenders and profiteers who benefitted from the Meiji Restoration. Part of the warrior ethos is personal responsibility; the continuing Japanese refusesal to own up to their crimes is an example of how far from their roots they have drifted.

[Drunk Monkey]

Drunk Monkey wrote:

all they want is Japan to do what they want to satisfy there egos

Well, the Jews continue to exact monetary reparations, and erect holocaust monuments all over the place, even though the Germans have reonunced their actions druing WWII and come clean. China is not even asking that much; just an apology and corrections to their history texts, so I don't see how China can be accused of excessive ego.

The Japanese likely feel they owe China no apologies, because it was the Americans who defeated them. Of course, had the Chinese had been more willing imperial subjects, Japan would have had more resources to delay the Americans, or perhaps never gone to war.

The Japanese have never owned up to their crimes in any meaningful way. The Yakusune shrine is dedicated to Samurai, not the pretenders and profiteers who benefitted from the Meiji Restoration. Part of the warrior ethos is personal responsibility; the continuing Japanese refusesal to own up to their crimes is an example of how far from their roots they have drifted.

ya that is a good point. but at least china is not psychotic like north Korea if that were so Japan would be fucked

[Chmee]

It's no surprise that China's authoritarian government is stuck in the manipulative, hypocritical, and bullying tactics of the Cold War in international relations ... it's all they know.

Japan's stock answer should be simply 'Fuck you, get back to us when it's been 25 years since you ran over your own citizens with tanks to keep them from bitching ...'

China is just jerking Japan's chain with any bad publicity they can drum up, it's realpolitik in its most simplistic form. Anybody who lets it influence their policy choices should have their passport burned.

[Joe]

Christ, China is a fucking drama queen.

[Sea Skimmer]

I swear to Zeus the Chinese remind me of schoolyard bullies. Why shouldn't the Japanese honour their war dead like every other nation. The Jews don't bitch when Germans honour their dead.

On the other hand, the Germans actually admitted to their crimes and paid a rather large amount of compensation to those who survived (some of them anyway). Japan meanwhile basically is making an active effort through its school system to hide the truth and conceal its numerous atrocities.

[Chmee]

I swear to Zeus the Chinese remind me of schoolyard bullies. Why shouldn't the Japanese honour their war dead like every other nation. The Jews don't bitch when Germans honour their dead.

On the other hand, the Germans actually admitted to their crimes and paid a rather large amount of compensation to those who survived (some of them anyway). Japan meanwhile basically is making an active effort through its school system to hide the truth and conceal its numerous atrocities.

Of course, the relevant comparison here is whether China is open and honest about its past (and ongoing) atrocities.

Ok, I'll pause here while everybody has a good laugh.

No? Then they can take a big steaming cup of stfu, can't they?

[Shinova]

The Koreans seem to be quiet.

It seems more like that bunch's redirected their attention on the US rather than Japan or China, especially with the younger generation. Maybe pointing fingers at its neighbors went out of style and now they point across the ocean.

[Aaron]

On the other hand, the Germans actually admitted to their crimes and paid a rather large amount of compensation to those who survived (some of them anyway). Japan meanwhile basically is making an active effort through its school system to hide the truth and conceal its numerous atrocities.

Yes the Germans have admitted their reponsibilty. However the Japanese should still be allowed to honour their dead who aren't war criminals or murderers, I hardly believe that all Japanese WWII soldiers were heartless killers.

This is just China dredging up shit to try and keep Japan off the Security Council, and it rings hollow to me because of China's shitty record on human rights.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Yes, I know the Chinese were badly hurt in WWII, but this is just petty. Honestly, they've already played this card too many times in too short a period, and if they continue, they would drain all its sympathy value and it'd turn into a dead card.

[HemlockGrey]

But also convicted war criminals.
I can see why the Chinese are so touchy about that.

Oh, for fuck's sake. This is the country that hangs a giant portrait of Mao Tsedong over the square where they massacred peaceful protestors just 15 years ago. Any protest coming from them about honoring criminals is complete hypocrisy.

[General Brock]

Chmee wrote:

Japan's stock answer should be simply 'Fuck you, get back to us when it's been 25 years since you ran over your own citizens with tanks to keep them from bitching ...'

There is a marked, qualitative difference between running over your own people with tanks, or oppressing it with an authoritarian regime, and having it inflicted by a foreign nation. The 'benefits' of such actions, assuming a truly indigenous faction controlling the government for its own domestic interests, keep the spoils of power within that society as a whole, rather than to benefit a rival nation.

It is strange that so many people insist this difference dosen't exist. It is also not hypocracy for China to insist that the Japanese were wrong to use Chinese citizens for bayonet practice and biowarfare experiments, or that the Japanese failure to acknowledge such a crime as wrong makes them a bad candidate for Security Council membership, as that body primarily oversees the external relationships between states, not the details of a state's internal governance.

Who would you rather have as a next-door neighbor state? An authoritarian regime that harms its own people in internal disputes from time to time, but behaves itself internationally, (no threat to you or your domestic interests) or a state that relieves internal social pressures by exporting violence to its neighbors (dosen't mind violating your sovereign rights for kicks and plunder)? China may be making all the noise, but most nations liberated from Western colonialism by the Japanese imperialism support China in this particular matter.

American determination to place a friendly in the council is understandable, but Germany is a better candidate than Japan at this time, in terms of objectivity and moral acumen.

[mr friendly guy]

How many criticising China would be singing a different tune if some country "with better international standing" used the same arguments, pointed to the same evidence of Japanese actions in WWII and then did the same thing (withdrawing ambassadors / officials) in protest?

Can't you feel the tu quoque coming on?

[Ypoknons]

Is it something acceptable Japan isn't denouncing its actions in WWII? Forget who makes the accusation right now – just think that Japan has its own social problems! Don’t just say ‘so does China’ – all countries have social problems to some degree; we all live in glass houses in some way or other. Even American and Canada. I can understand honoring the war dead, perhaps not war criminals, but war dead certainly, but come on would we stop this PRC is a lying communist shitstain excuse and worry about Japan for once?

[PainRack]

Yes the Germans have admitted their reponsibilty. However the Japanese should still be allowed to honour their dead who aren't war criminals or murderers, I hardly believe that all Japanese WWII soldiers were heartless killers.

This is just China dredging up shit to try and keep Japan off the Security Council, and it rings hollow to me because of China's shitty record on human rights.

There's a major difference. Does any memorial has Hitler and Heinrich names inscribed on them as the fallen? Are they remembered when you visit that shrine? Tojo name is.

There isn't a doubt that China is playing up the nationalism card to overwhelm Japan, however, that doesn't mean they don't have a leg to stand on either.

[AniThyng]

How many criticising China would be singing a different tune if some country "with better international standing" used the same arguments, pointed to the same evidence of Japanese actions in WWII and then did the same thing (withdrawing ambassadors / officials) in protest?

Can't you feel the tu quoque coming on?

That country is South Korea.