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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)


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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 08:51pm
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Hey, you guys are going to give me a complex. :)

Okay, maybe it's because unlike everyone else :P the French are probably right. :D

So in that case they're rubbing it in.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 09:04pm
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NapoleonGH wrote:
why is it so bad for them to try to pervent a war which resulted in thousands of innocents dying? regardless of what the government's motive to oppose the war was, the populace in general opposed the war like everyone else on earth besides a few countires in europe and a good portion of the US population, because of the humanitarian issues.

I commend the french populace for opposing the war so vehemently and opposing aggression.


I grant you it does take backbone to do go to such lengths to try to prevent the invasion of Iraq and they'll probably be proven right in doing so.

It's just seemed like a pissing contest somewhat legitamized by what most saw as the moral high ground. I guess I don't understand their vehemence in this case, including the bullying towards countries wanting to join the EU who were supporting the US position on this.

I guess I expected Russia and China to oppose the US on Iraq but I didn't expect the leader of the possee to be France. :?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 11:08pm
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of course the US bullied other current EU members trying to get them to support us.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 11:13pm
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Tsyroc wrote:
Well, my only long running problem with France is my perception that they think they have a better culture than everyone else (the US in particular). Whether correct or not I always get the feeling that they look down on the US as being culturally inferior.


Tsyroc, in one of my trips to france I found the people to be very friendly and not to be stereotypical snooty waiters.

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 11:22pm
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Next of Kin wrote:
Tsyroc, in one of my trips to france I found the people to be very friendly and not to be stereotypical snooty waiters.



:lol: Cool.

I wish I could say the same about the "Ugly American" tourist. I don't think that's as much of a exageration as I'd like. :)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 11:25pm
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NapoleonGH wrote:
of course the US bullied other current EU members trying to get them to support us.



True. Disappointing wouldn't you say? I don't like that we bully and bribe our way through international maters.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 11:28pm
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Tsyroc wrote:
I wish I could say the same about the "Ugly American" tourist. I don't think that's as much of a exageration as I'd like. :)


For some reason I picture some dude in Paris wearing Bermuda shorts, an American flag T-Shirt, knee-high black socks, sandals, camera around the neck, complete with a wad of cash that yells, "steal me" in his back pocket!

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-18 11:40pm
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yea really i have found that the "stupid american tourist" stereotype is true most of the time, and the french people only get all "superior" when confronted with a 400 pound blob of fat who just runs the whole italian section of the Louvre to stand in front of the mona lisa then gets out of the museum ASAP without even glancing at any of the thousands of pieces of some of the greatest art the world has ever generated, becuase these people are the majority of american tourists my french family members have noticed a great many people who have at least some culture and respect for culture, and have NYC or Boston accents, saying they are from Toronto (of course they make the silly mistake of pronouncing the second T, which isnt supposed to be pronounced). I think this kinda shows that the "stupid american tourist" stereotype exists because the rest of us are ashamed by the stupid uncultured slob tourists, and pretend to be canadians.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:07am
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Next of Kin wrote:
For some reason I picture some dude in Paris wearing Bermuda shorts, an American flag T-Shirt, knee-high black socks, sandals, camera around the neck, complete with a wad of cash that yells, "steal me" in his back pocket!


Which almost exactly describes my mental picture of the Ugly American Tourist. I always think of the redneck sherrif from Live & Let Die when he shows up in The Man with the Golden Gun. He's got the shirt, the shorts, the black socks, a wad of chaw in his mouth, and he doesn't have much respect for the people whose country he's in. :)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:49am
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Next of Kin wrote:
For some reason I picture some dude in Paris wearing Bermuda shorts, an American flag T-Shirt, knee-high black socks, sandals, camera around the neck, complete with a wad of cash that yells, "steal me" in his back pocket!


I saw that guy on tv being interviewed in Amsterdam not too long ago. Well, he wore shoes, and no bundle of money, but otherwise, eerily similar.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:50am
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Tsyroc wrote:
Next of Kin wrote:
For some reason I picture some dude in Paris wearing Bermuda shorts, an American flag T-Shirt, knee-high black socks, sandals, camera around the neck, complete with a wad of cash that yells, "steal me" in his back pocket!


Which almost exactly describes my mental picture of the Ugly American Tourist. I always think of the redneck sherrif from Live & Let Die when he shows up in The Man with the Golden Gun. He's got the shirt, the shorts, the black socks, a wad of chaw in his mouth, and he doesn't have much respect for the people whose country he's in. :)


Wow. Sounds just like many of the American customers I get at the internet cafe.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 02:25am
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Tsyroc wrote:
Well, my only long running problem with France is my perception that they think they have a better culture than everyone else (the US in particular). Whether correct or not I always get the feeling that they look down on the US as being culturally inferior.

Well, you have to admit that in some ways, you bring that international judgement down upon yourselves. Need I mention the offenses by name? Mariah Carey ... Britney Spears ... the Backstreet Boys ... quasi-religious worship of Elvis ... McDonald's ... Bruckheimer's "Pearl Harbour" ... ugh.

Of course, there have been some great cultural icons from America too. Names like Jimi Hendrix, Clint Eastwood, Star Wars, and of course, contributions to cuisine such as the peppercorn T-bone steak and the propane barbecue, which may be lowbrow but are FUCKING GOOD. But people tend to remember the worst things first, particularly when it's another country they're talking about.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 02:58am
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Darth Wong, on the Peppercorn T-Bone. The French had Steak au Poivre first. :(

And Brukheimer's "Pearl Harbor" is enough for condemnationon a national level, I CAN NOT watch that movie! And I've tried, I really have. The horror, the horror...... :banghead:



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 03:08am
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I think the reason the US and the French hate each other so much is because we're so alike. We're both assholes. We're both incredibly stupid. We're both incredibly arrogant. We both think we're better than everyone else. And we both think we own the world.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 04:58am
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weemadando wrote:
Wow. Sounds just like many of the American customers I get at the internet cafe.



:lol: Funny you should mention that. When you told the story of the American asshole who wanted you to get him a computer connection right now because he was American, a picture of the guy and his wife from The Man With the Golden Gun popped into my head. :D



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 05:00am
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Darth Wong wrote:
Well, you have to admit that in some ways, you bring that international judgement down upon yourselves. Need I mention the offenses by name? Mariah Carey ... Britney Spears ... the Backstreet Boys ... quasi-religious worship of Elvis ... McDonald's ... Bruckheimer's "Pearl Harbour" ... ugh.


Good thing we keep the even worse stuff to ourselves, although I have to feel sorry for Canada and Mexico because they pick up some of that as well.


I still don't understand the deal with the French and Jerry Lewis though? :?



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 05:03am
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Tsyroc wrote:
weemadando wrote:
Wow. Sounds just like many of the American customers I get at the internet cafe.



:lol: Funny you should mention that. When you told the story of the American asshole who wanted you to get him a computer connection right now because he was American, a picture of the guy and his wife from The Man With the Golden Gun popped into my head. :D


I pictured the fat Texan from the Simpsons.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 07:12am
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Well France has Absinthe :P



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 11:36am
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NapoleonGH wrote:
why is it so bad for them to try to pervent a war which resulted in thousands of innocents dying? regardless of what the government's motive to oppose the war was, the populace in general opposed the war like everyone else on earth besides a few countires in europe and a good portion of the US population, because of the humanitarian issues.

I commend the french populace for opposing the war so vehemently and opposing aggression.


Friend Napoleon, humanitarian issues are all well and good. The problem is that we heard very little French outrage when it was US planes and buildings that were being destroyed. In fact, French War companies continued to sell arms to Iraq after the fact, as well as supply Saddam with intelligence.

This war was started when these people and their friends attacked the US. Far from averting anything, France went to a great deal of trouble to aid my country's enemies.

It is perfectly alright to support France in this matter, but please don't pretend that they are "peace loving" or any of that rot.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:13pm
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Lee3 wrote:

Friend Napoleon, humanitarian issues are all well and good. The problem is that we heard very little French outrage when it was US planes and buildings that were being destroyed.


What a load of bull. In case you didn't know, France participated in the military campaign in Afghanistan, with Mirage 2000s flying from Kyrgyzstan and Rafales off the Charles De Gaulle. Very little French outrage my ass.

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In fact, French War companies continued to sell arms to Iraq after the fact, as well as supply Saddam with intelligence.


No basis in fact for those accusations.

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This war was started when these people and their friends attacked the US. Far from averting anything, France went to a great deal of trouble to aid my country's enemies.


The French government didn't give Iraq jack crap after 1991. The erroneous claim that spare parts for (I presume) its Mirage F1 fighters were supplied to Iraq is a lie, and I for one have never seen a source on it.

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It is perfectly alright to support France in this matter, but please don't pretend that they are "peace loving" or any of that rot.


Strawman: this is what Napoleon said:

regardless of what the government's motive to oppose the war was ... I commend the french populace for opposing the war so vehemently and opposing aggression



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:29pm
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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
I think the reason the US and the French hate each other so much is because we're so alike. We're both assholes. We're both incredibly stupid. We're both incredibly arrogant. We both think we're better than everyone else. And we both think we own the world.


There is truth in that argument.




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Strawman: this is what Napoleon said:

regardless of what the government's motive to oppose the war was ... I commend the french populace for opposing the war so vehemently and opposing aggression


And I am compelled to mention that those people who were opposed to aggression were rioting and vandalizing bussinesses associated with America not all that long ago. Any peace protester who ransacks a Mickey D's can't claim to be against aggression. :roll:



They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:32pm
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Knife wrote:
And I am compelled to mention that those people who were opposed to aggression were rioting and vandalizing bussinesses associated with America not all that long ago. Any peace protester who ransacks a Mickey D's can't claim to be against aggression. :roll:


There's always a chance a bunch of hoons will show up at protests to take advantage- the problem of 'pro' rioters who just go wherever there's a protest so they can ransack stores and mix it up with police is common in Europe- furthermore, I'd hardly say the entire French populace was out on the streets ransacking shit.



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:40pm
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Vympel wrote:
Knife wrote:
And I am compelled to mention that those people who were opposed to aggression were rioting and vandalizing bussinesses associated with America not all that long ago. Any peace protester who ransacks a Mickey D's can't claim to be against aggression. :roll:


There's always a chance a bunch of hoons will show up at protests to take advantage- the problem of 'pro' rioters who just go wherever there's a protest so they can ransack stores and mix it up with police is common in Europe- furthermore, I'd hardly say the entire French populace was out on the streets ransacking shit.


No, not all of them. In fact I am sure that quite a few are good folk, however, a blanket generalization was used to justify the position of 'NapoleonGH'. His genrealization was wrong.

Alot of the protests that I saw on TV either in Europe or in the US had a active element that was militant. They seem to be a minority but a loud and ever present minority. The rest of the protesters seem not to be able to nor want to reign in this element in their ranks. Therefore I find them copable in the situation and none of them can spew bull shit that they are against all forms of violence and aggression when they are people in their ranks perform forms of violence.



They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:50pm
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His Divine Shadow wrote:
Well France has Absinthe :P


Very true...and I thank them for it.

I agree that it's that people remember what is piss-poor about a people before recognizing what is good about them, thus we get weird jingoist bullshit like Freedom Fries...and Americans being dumb oxen(yeah I've seen the tourist and won't deny it, but to think every tourist is that way is just as bad as think every Japanese tourist is a snapshot per second moron.)



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 Post subject:  PostPosted: 2003-05-19 12:57pm
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Well, we could go to the point that France is full of a whole lot more liberals and liberal... for lack of a better word "artists" such as the Gnomish Liberation Front. Things like this really irk a government that has shown a trend to be leaning much farther to the right like the U.S. Simply put, Rightists very much like to play the Liberal French as a foil to the U.S.A.



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