French let fly at US hawks over smears
By James Harding in Washington
Published: May 15 2003 19:01 | Last Updated: May 15 2003 19:01
A little while ago, Jean-David Levitte, the French ambassador to the US, invited Richard Perle, the outspoken neo-conservative hawk, for a tete-a-tete over lunch at his opulent residence in Washington. It was not exactly a meeting of minds.
The French embassy in Washington has grown increasingly convinced in recent months that a cabal of hawkish officials and administration advisers has been peddling malicious stories about France to the US press. US officials and critics of France's opposition to the Iraq war have "leaked" unsubstantiated rumours, fuelling widespread American animosity towards the French and President Jacques Chirac.
On Thursday, Mr Levitte sent a letter to the White House, Congress and the US press to say "Ça suffit".
Setting out what the French government describes as "campaign of disinformation", Mr Levitte's letter cites a series of stories - sourced from anonymous administration officials - that damaged France's image.
The letter does not name its suspects. Mr Perle, with whom the French ambassador is said to have had a cordial and informative lunch, has been a vehement Chirac critic. It is not suggested that he is one of the instruments of the disinformation.
Indeed, French officials say they do not want to make accusations with no evidence. Still, hardliners in and around the Pentagon - who share the worldview of Mr Perle - are bound to be seen as the most likely targets of their accusations.
Newspapers and television networks revelled in the anti-French feeling. The renaming of "French fries" as "freedom fries" started in one diner in the South and captured the country's imagination: the Congressional dining rooms started serving freedom fries and Air Force One offered "freedom toast" for breakfast.
But France's complaint is about stories which have been damaging and then, often half-heartedly, denied.
Earlier this month, the Washington Times, a conservative newspaper, reported that France had provided Iraqi leaders with French passports to assist their escape. US administration officials were said to be angered, but when the White House and State Department were asked if the story was true, they said no. Another Washington Times story earlier this year alleging the transfer by French companies of spare parts for aircraft was also denied.
Scott McClellan, the White House's deputy press secretary, said yesterday that French frustration "had no basis in fact". He did not explain whether he meant the US stories about France were groundless or France's gripe was without merit. Instead, he recycled a recent quip from Colin Powell, the US secretary of state, that France and the US have had a relationship for 200 years, most of it spent in the office of the marriage guidance counsellor.
Interesting the kind of bullshit that gets spread around when the hormones are high. Also good to know the 'France sold Iraq aircraft parts' story was bull too.
I'd say the "Freedom Fries" thing captured more mockery than anything else, quickly becoming a metaphor within the nation and elsewhere for heedless, knee-jerk jingoism.
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I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
I'm too amused by the whole process to want it to stop.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Iceberg wrote:I'd say the "Freedom Fries" thing captured more mockery than anything else, quickly becoming a metaphor within the nation and elsewhere for heedless, knee-jerk jingoism.
well you know in response to freedom fries/toast the french renamed american cheese to "Idiot Cheese" (or so said The Onion)
Festina Lente
My shoes are too tight and I've forgotten how to dance
Andrew J. wrote:The American populace is already very anti-French, you'd think they wouldn't have to lie to make France unpopular.
The anti-french sentiment in America that has always existed is more a mocking type sentiment that we helped them when they surrendered in the World Wars, and that they are critical and ungrateful of Americans, etc. etc.
The Anti-French sentiment from false articles such as the one about Aircraft parts spawn a very different kind of anger. It promotes the feeling that France is actually one of our "enemies in the war on terror" because they are helping "terrorists". This is infintely more damning to the French than the classic WUSSY anti-France feeling.
"I don't come here for the music, or even the drugs. I come here for the Family!!"-Some guy on hash at a concert
Fremen_Muhadib wrote:The anti-french sentiment in America that has always existed is more a mocking type sentiment that we helped them when they surrendered in the World Wars,
<snip>
War. Singular. They didn't surrender in the first one.
Lord Sander,
"Oderint dum metuant"
Glory to the Empire and Emperor Palpatine!
Most Americans seem to forget that without the French aid in the Revolution, America wouldn't exist. This pisses me off. The French aren't that bad, but they need a serious social revolution.
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never negoiate out of fear, but never fear to negoiate.
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Admiral Johnason wrote:Most Americans seem to forget that without the French aid in the Revolution, America wouldn't exist. This pisses me off. The French aren't that bad, but they need a serious social revolution.
A lack of French aid would have made the war longer, but that’s all that is certain. England could never have fielded the men to end the rebellion and it would have had a good chance of winning simply by outlasting British efforts to destroy its field armies.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
I personally don't see what everyone's problem with the French is, I for one rather like them.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Gandalf wrote:I personally don't see what everyone's problem with the French is, I for one rather like them.
Me neither. The whole French surrender thing really irks me too. They were beaten fair and square. And Free French? Hello? Normandie-Neiman? Any of those ring a bell?
Admiral Johnason wrote:Most Americans seem to forget that without the French aid in the Revolution, America wouldn't exist. This pisses me off. The French aren't that bad, but they need a serious social revolution.
They had one. You'll find details about it cleverly hidden under the heading "The French Revolution" in a world history textbook.
Damien Sorresso
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Gandalf wrote:I personally don't see what everyone's problem with the French is, I for one rather like them.
Me neither. The whole French surrender thing really irks me too. They were beaten fair and square. And Free French? Hello? Normandie-Neiman? Any of those ring a bell?
Perhaps because were both in Australia, we missed the "France suck" memo?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Vympel wrote:
Me neither. The whole French surrender thing really irks me too. They were beaten fair and square. And Free French? Hello? Normandie-Neiman? Any of those ring a bell?
As has always been my position, you can hate the French government with good reason, but lay of the military. It is fairly hard to find a battle in which the French gave in and another force would not and still accomplish more then to die.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
The French surrendered during World War II because of one of the most braindead military strategies the world has ever been witness to (walls DON'T WORK as military defence in the age of aircrafts!) not because of cowardice. If they'd devoted their resources toward a workable military strategy, they could have been a major force in the war, and maybe the world wouldn't have had to listen to the Americans gloat about it for the next sixty years.
Gandalf wrote:
Perhaps because were both in Australia, we missed the "France suck" memo?
Well, my only long running problem with France is my perception that they think they have a better culture than everyone else (the US in particular). Whether correct or not I always get the feeling that they look down on the US as being culturally inferior.
Also, passing laws to attempt to prevent the bastardization of the French language with an influx of foreign words is sort of amusing but also harkens back to that cultural superiority thing.
With the recent problems with France the only thing that got me wasn't them being strongly against the invasion of Iraq it's that they were willing to go to such lengths to oppose it.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
why is it so bad for them to try to pervent a war which resulted in thousands of innocents dying? regardless of what the government's motive to oppose the war was, the populace in general opposed the war like everyone else on earth besides a few countires in europe and a good portion of the US population, because of the humanitarian issues.
I commend the french populace for opposing the war so vehemently and opposing aggression.
Festina Lente
My shoes are too tight and I've forgotten how to dance
Gandalf wrote:I personally don't see what everyone's problem with the French is, I for one rather like them.
Me neither. The whole French surrender thing really irks me too. They were beaten fair and square. And Free French? Hello? Normandie-Neiman? Any of those ring a bell?
I can't say I really have a problem with the French, mainly because the times that they were beaten in wars from 1750-1945, it usually involved the Germans or the Prussians two of the most efficent millitary machines the world has ever seen.
"I don't come here for the music, or even the drugs. I come here for the Family!!"-Some guy on hash at a concert
Tsyroc wrote:Well, my only long running problem with France is my perception that they think they have a better culture than everyone else (the US in particular). Whether correct or not I always get the feeling that they look down on the US as being culturally inferior.
<snip>
Everyone looks down on the US as being culturally inferior though, not just the French
Lord Sander,
"Oderint dum metuant"
Glory to the Empire and Emperor Palpatine!
Tsyroc wrote:Well, my only long running problem with France is my perception that they think they have a better culture than everyone else (the US in particular). Whether correct or not I always get the feeling that they look down on the US as being culturally inferior.
<snip>
Everyone looks down on the US as being culturally inferior though, not just the French
Drooling Iguana wrote:The French surrendered during World War II because of one of the most braindead military strategies the world has ever been witness to (walls DON'T WORK as military defence in the age of aircrafts!) not because of cowardice. If they'd devoted their resources toward a workable military strategy, they could have been a major force in the war, and maybe the world wouldn't have had to listen to the Americans gloat about it for the next sixty years.
And yet the Maginot line worked perfectly and diverted the main German attack through Belgium, which was the main idea.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Tsyroc wrote:Well, my only long running problem with France is my perception that they think they have a better culture than everyone else (the US in particular). Whether correct or not I always get the feeling that they look down on the US as being culturally inferior.
<snip>
Everyone looks down on the US as being culturally inferior though, not just the French :) :P
Drooling Iguana wrote:The French surrendered during World War II because of one of the most braindead military strategies the world has ever been witness to (walls DON'T WORK as military defence in the age of aircrafts!) not because of cowardice. If they'd devoted their resources toward a workable military strategy, they could have been a major force in the war, and maybe the world wouldn't have had to listen to the Americans gloat about it for the next sixty years.
And yet the Maginot line worked perfectly and diverted the main German attack through Belgium, which was the main idea.
If they had only had the cash to extend it along the arden forest, WWII would have been fought VERY differently
Festina Lente
My shoes are too tight and I've forgotten how to dance
