UKRAINE WAR - 2024 thread

[Zwinmar]

Well it should tell you something when even Nazi's would make peace and ally with a Jew to stop an invasion from a bunch of Soviet fanboys. Funny how an outside invader pulls a country together, do they hate each other, most likely, are Nazi's shit people, absolutely. Here's the thing, you can call however you want Nazi's but until Russia pulls their dick out of the grinder and go home then it is secondary to the real issue of being genocided by the reds. So quit trying to change the narrative. Russia is lead by a power mad psychopath who has no problem murdering anyone and everything that he thinks defies him, his troops systematically rape, torture, indoctrinate, and kill, so if having a unit of fucking Nazi's dying on the front is the price to keep their country intact well it is pretty obvious which is the lesser of the two evils.

[Vympel]

I don't know how seriously I can take someone so obviously out of their mind on cartoonish anti-communism they're calling the Russians 'the Reds' in 2024, but:

Well it should tell you something when even Nazi's would make peace and ally with a Jew-

The Ukrainian far-right has never been 'at war' with Zelensky because the factions Zelensky represents have never been at war with them. This focus on the President personally is infantile and ignorant. Of course far right forces are going to leap at the opportunity to further aggrandise themselves in the state apparatus of violence when given the opportunity to do so, and of course they're not going to be particularly bothered that the current figurehead of the oligarchy which rules Ukraine happens to be Jewish at the time. Not while his government turns a blind eye to their bullshit.

Funny how an outside invader pulls a country together,

Please explain why an 'outside invader' necessitates the state maintenance of expressly Nazi-coded military units led by hard core Nazis? I would've thought individual nazis could just join regular army units and keep their nazi beliefs to themselves less they be punished, as opposed to the state sanctioning them covering themselves with Nazi shit while conducting ridiculous cringe Nazi-coded pagan rituals like burning Viking ships.

Ukraine maintains and glorifies Nazi military units because Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Its not complicated. They were there before the Russians invaded and they'll be in whatever remains of Ukraine after the war is over, stronger than ever, because of tolerance for this shit where there need be none at all.

[Stofsk]

Can't believe some of the shit I've read in this thread. So much so I had to fish out my old log in password from the dusty recesses of my brain and get through this dumb website's obtuse captcha requirement to log in for the first time in over a decade to tell you cunts to take a wash. Just out and out Nazi apologia mixed in with Holocaust denial. If anything Vympel's been too nice to some of you.

'...so if having a unit of fucking Nazi's dying on the front is the price to keep their country intact well it is pretty obvious which is the lesser of the two evils.'

Yeah man, for sure, the Nazis are the lesser of two evils. Fucking liberals man. Those fucking Nazis have been tearing their own country apart for the last ten years, conducting pogroms against Roma as well as ethnic Rusyn and Belarusyn Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in the Donbas region well before the Russian invasion in 2022. All while being supplied and materially aided by the fucking Seppos and European proxies. Go fuck yourselves.

[Broomstick]

Seriously, I don't understand how there are still westerners who give legitimacy to referendums or elections in Russian occupied Ukrainian territories. Russia can't even organize fair democratic elections within its own borders, never mind in foreign countries under military occupation.

It's because they want our elections to be run like Russia elections, with the same lack of choice and supervision. They admire the example.

[Solauren]

Can't believe some of the shit I've read in this thread. So much so I had to fish out my old log in password from the dusty recesses of my brain and get through this dumb website's obtuse captcha requirement to log in for the first time in over a decade to tell you cunts to take a wash.

HOLY SHIT, you're still around?!?!?

I agree with you 100% about the Nazi apologists, by the way.

[Ralin]

The Ukrainian far-right has never been 'at war' with Zelensky because the factions Zelensky represents have never been at war with them. This focus on the President personally is infantile and ignorant. Of course far right forces are going to leap at the opportunity to further aggrandise themselves in the state apparatus of violence when given the opportunity to do so, and of course they're not going to be particularly bothered that the current figurehead of the oligarchy which rules Ukraine happens to be Jewish at the time. Not while his government turns a blind eye to their bullshit.

You'd think Americans would still remember how Trump, noted far-right president whose election was met by enthusiastic "Heil Trump!" rallies from American Nazis, had a Jewish son-in-law. Our American Nazis very much liked and supported Trump both for his policies and his character and if many of them were upset about Trump's pretty blonde white daughter being fucked by a Jew (something Nazis have traditionally taken great exception to) they kept their feelings on the subject private for reasons that presumably had to do with thinking he was good for them politically. Shouldn't be surprising that Nazis in other countries can co-exist with a Jewish president for awhile.

[Broomstick]

Well, yes - if a Russian invasion is perceived to be a large and immediate existential threat then it makes a lot of sense that people who might otherwise be at each other's throats could team up to tackle that threat. Doesn't mean they like each other. Doesn't mean they won't go back to fighting each other once the larger threat is gone. Don't mistake temporary alliance for friendship.

[Ralin]

Well, yes - if a Russian invasion is perceived to be a large and immediate existential threat then it makes a lot of sense that people who might otherwise be at each other's throats could team up to tackle that threat. Doesn't mean they like each other. Doesn't mean they won't go back to fighting each other once the larger threat is gone. Don't mistake temporary alliance for friendship.

Yeah but the way Vympel tells it they weren't exactly at loggerheads to begin with and that sounds like a much deeper issue than being desperate and not being too picky about where they find more live bodies to toss at the invaders.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

But even that is needlessly complicated, the very first line in the article states that "Holocaust denial is an antisemitic conspiracy theory that asserts that the Nazi genocide of Jews, known as the Holocaust, is a fabrication or exaggeration". And since I made no such assertions, the idea that it is somehow holocaust denial is nothing but a massive strawman.

Going any further is going to devolve into a comparison of Nazism and Stalinism.

It's amazing watching someone deny they are engaging in Holocaust denial becuase of the first line of an entry on wikipedia. Trivialising and equivocating the events of the Holocaust to objectively less severe crimes is an act of denial*. There is no equivalence between 'Nazism' and 'Stalinsim' and I've already exhaustively explained why, you're just so steeped in anti-communist propaganda you simply don't see anything wrong with asserting that the expressly genocidal state which, had it won, would've exterminated 100 million people in eastern europe and Russia is somehow the same as the state which did literally nothing of the kind.

*If you doubt this, here's an idea, go tell a Jewish Holocaust survivor that his experience in Aushcwitz is identical to the experience of a Japanese man in a US internment camp, see how well that goes over for you.

You can keep repeating that claim all you want, it means nothing because that's not what's happening here. You can waffle on about anti-communist bullshit as much as you like as if it's somehow relevant but it changes nothing. By all means though, keep stuffing that strawman with those red herrings

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Missile strike on Odesa: Number of injured rises to 73, police face losses

The number of casualties has risen again in Odesa over a Russian terrorist attack. Currently, 73 wounded are reported, according to Ukraine's Interior Minister Ihor Klymenko.

As of now, there are 16 confirmed deaths, including a State Emergency Service employee. He reminded that the enemy struck again at the city when rescuers arrived to assist the victims.

There are 73 injured with varying degrees of severity.

"Unfortunately, we also have losses among the personnel of the National Police. Strong, fearless fighters. Without numbers, but with great respect for each fallen," Klymenko added.

Russian strike on Odesa on March 15

Russian terrorists attacked Odesa today with ballistic missiles Iskander-M, launched from temporarily occupied Crimea. The target of the Russian terrorists was civilian infrastructure.

After medics and rescuers arrived at the scene, the enemy struck again. Initially, dozens of injuries and fatalities were reported.

As a result of the enemy attack, a three-story recreational building was destroyed, and at least 10 private houses were damaged, along with a low-pressure gas pipeline, a car service station, ambulances, and firefighting and rescue vehicles. Currently, debris clearing is ongoing.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Can't believe some of the shit I've read in this thread. So much so I had to fish out my old log in password from the dusty recesses of my brain and get through this dumb website's obtuse captcha requirement to log in for the first time in over a decade to tell you cunts to take a wash. Just out and out Nazi apologia mixed in with Holocaust denial. If anything Vympel's been too nice to some of you.

'...so if having a unit of fucking Nazi's dying on the front is the price to keep their country intact well it is pretty obvious which is the lesser of the two evils.'

Yeah man, for sure, the Nazis are the lesser of two evils. Fucking liberals man. Those fucking Nazis have been tearing their own country apart for the last ten years, conducting pogroms against Roma as well as ethnic Rusyn and Belarusyn Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in the Donbas region well before the Russian invasion in 2022. All while being supplied and materially aided by the fucking Seppos and European proxies. Go fuck yourselves.

Your first post in 10 years and you spend it trolling. You needn't have bothered reappearing.

M114 howitzers, aviation rockets, and millions of rounds: Greece prepares military aid for Ukraine

Greece is preparing to supply Ukraine with a new batch of military aid. This includes aviation missiles, artillery pieces, and ammunition, reports eKathimerini.

Role of Czechia

The material notes that the equipment will be purchased by Czechia and sent directly to Ukraine. Czech and Greek officials are negotiating prices for these systems, after which a bilateral agreement will be signed.

Greek officials claim that it is precisely ammunition that Ukraine needs the most and that their proposal will help meet the needs of Ukrainians.

What Ukraine can get

Greece has informed EU officials responsible for coordinating assistance to Ukraine that they could provide the following aid through Czechia this year:
・2000 Zuni rockets;

・180 rockets successfully used by Ukraine in anti-tank warfare and listed high on Ukraine's requests;

・90,000 90mm shells used in anti-tank warfare and air defense;

・4 million bullets;

・70 M114 155mm howitzers of American production.

Ukraine has already received artillery

The material notes that artillery pieces are indeed coming from the Greek Army's inventory but have long been considered unnecessary for its operational needs.

However, they are considered useful in Ukraine's confrontations in rugged terrain. This is the second batch of M114s that Greece will sell to Czechia for transfer to Ukraine.

Future meeting of NATO defense ministers

Defense Minister Nikos Dendias will participate in a meeting of NATO defense ministers and other countries providing arms to Ukraine in Germany next week.

It is expected that he will reiterate Greece's position that the flow of weapons and ammunition must be maintained to help Ukraine survive the difficult spring.

Greece has already provided anti-aircraft missile systems and sent Soviet-made BMP-1 infantry fighting vehicles in exchange for somewhat more modern Marder armored vehicles of German production.

M114

American field howitzer from the Second World War period. It was produced in series, under the designation M1, from October 1942 to June 1945, with a total of 4035 guns of this type being produced. The peak of production, at 206 howitzers, occurred in June 1944.

Greek assistance to Ukraine

Last summer, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited Greece. During his visit, he announced that Athens would train Ukrainian pilots on F-16 fighter jets. The head of state also stated that Ukraine relied on Greece for air defense in the Black Sea.

Later, it was reported that Greece was suspending funding for support and maintenance programs for Soviet-era anti-aircraft missile systems, as they may be transferred to Ukraine in the future.

Recently, Greece's permanent representative to NATO, Spyros Lambridis, said that the Greek government was considering increasing military assistance to Ukraine

Vladimir Putin has own territory bombed to target rebel Russians helping Ukraine

Vladimir Putin's Air Force has bombed a village near the border with Ukraine to root out Russian defectors after an incursion into Russia, a video purportedly shows.

Ukrainian journalist Andriy Tsaplienko shared footage of an explosion in a strip of land in the Belgorod region where Russian rebels alleged to have started an incursion campaign.

The Freedom of Russia Legion, the Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK) and the Siberian Battalion - which are all made up of Russian volunteers backing Ukraine's defence forces - announced on Tuesday they had launched a raid into the southern Russian region.

The RDK and the Freedom of Russia Legion have both conducted multiple raids into the area since the start of the war, while the Battalion joined the other two for the first time this week.
Tsaplienko claims Russian Air Force planes had targeted the area in a bid to push the dissidents out after claiming control of some villages.

He wrote: "Russian aviation bombards Russian territory, namely, villages where volunteers of the Freedom of Russia Legion, RDK and the 'Siberia' battalion entered."

The video could not be independently verified by the Daily Express but the Russian Defence Ministry on Friday said that "more than 50 saboteurs" were killed during an attempt by the groups to break through in the Belgorod region."

In a statement issued on Friday, the Ministry said its men had "foiled another attempt" by the three groups to breach Russia's borders in the Belgorod region "in the area of the border settlement of Kozinka."

The Freedom of Russia Legion, the RDK and the Siberian Battalion issued a joint statement on Friday warning of a new impending incursion into the region.

They said: "We urge local residents to immediately head to safe shelters and to stay put until the attack is over.

"Spread this message among Belgorod residents and help save the lives of fellow countrymen."

The warning came as Vladimir Putin hit out at Ukraine claiming its defence forces had been involved in "terrorist" activity to thwart the presidential election.

According to the TASS news agency, Putin said: "These enemy strikes will not remain unpunished."

He continued: "These attacks, pointless from the military point of view and criminal from the humanitarian point of view, as has been said, are geared to hinder presidential election in Russia.

"I am convinced that our people will respond to this by being more consolidated. Who do they want to intimidate? The Russian people? The Multiethnic people of Russia?"

The election has already resulted in protests across Russia, with reports of voters setting fire to ballot boxes to disrupt the voting process - which experts expect will result in another term in power for Putin.

Dead soldiers voting for Vladimir Putin in Russian elections, Ukraine claims

In a post on Telegram, Ukrainian defence intelligence (DIU) alleged that the Russian "'election commissions' will try to increase the number of Putin's voters by attracting the so-called ‘dead souls' to the ‘voting'."

Putin is all but certain to win a fifth term, with the vote carefully choreographed by the Kremlin. (Image: Getty)
Russia is planning to put the the names of dead and missing soldiers on ballots backing Vladimir Putin to boost his numbers in the general election currently taking place, Ukraine claimed.

In a post on Telegram, Ukrainian defence intelligence (DIU) alleged that the Russian "'election commissions’ will try to increase the number of Putin’s voters by attracting the so-called ‘dead souls’ to the ‘voting’."

“They plan to add also those who recently died, went missing or were captured.”

The department made the claim in response to instructions from Russia’s electoral commission, which, it says, allows military personnel to cast their vote absentia without having to present identification documents.

Moscow is yet to comment on the claims.

It comes as footage has emerged online showing Russian voters expressing their dissent against the Putin regime by tampering with voting papers at polling stations.

In one video, a woman was filmed pouring what appeared to be ink into one of the ballot boxes.

Another clip shows a woman wearing a black coat and scarf can be seen setting fire to a ballot box before stepping away and seemingly pulling her phone out to document the incident.

Putin slammed the reports as he accused Ukraine of waging a "terrorist" campaign against Russia in an effort to thwart the election.

He also accused Kyiv of intensifying military strikes on Russian territory to "intimidate" voters – a goal he claimed Ukraine will not achieve.

According to the TASS news agency, Putin said: "These attacks, pointless from the military point of view and criminal from the humanitarian point of view, as has been said, are geared to hinder presidential election in Russia.

"I am convinced that our people will respond to this by being more consolidated.

"Who do they want to intimidate? The Russian people? The Multiethnic people of Russia?"

The vote comes soon after the second anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. (Image: Getty)
Russia began three days of voting Friday in a presidential election that is all but certain to extend Putin’s rule for six more years after he stifled dissent.

Voting is taking place through Sunday at polling stations across the vast country’s 11 time zones, in illegally annexed regions of Ukraine and online. Putin cast his ballot online, according to the Kremlin.

Russia's presidential election commission has declined to invite election observers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, with the foreign ministry claiming the decision was made due to the organisation's "politicized approach to assessing electoral situations."

"We will no longer tolerate criticism of our democracy and claims that it is not the kind that it should be," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said in a recent statement.

"Our democracy is the best, and we will continue to build it."

It comes as Moscow’s war in Ukraine enters its third year. Russia has the advantage on the battlefield, where it is making small, if slow, gains.

A Russian missile strike on the port city of Odesa killed at least 14 people on Friday, local officials said.

[Gandalf]

You can keep repeating that claim all you want, it means nothing because that's not what's happening here. You can waffle on about anti-communist bullshit as much as you like as if it's somehow relevant but it changes nothing. By all means though, keep stuffing that strawman with those red herrings

Not a straw man. You engaged in soft core Holocaust denialism, as per the very Wikipedia page you cited. Then you got touchy because it was apparently too complicated for you, and didn't want to look past the headline thought.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

You can keep repeating that claim all you want, it means nothing because that's not what's happening here. You can waffle on about anti-communist bullshit as much as you like as if it's somehow relevant but it changes nothing. By all means though, keep stuffing that strawman with those red herrings

Not a straw man. You engaged in soft core Holocaust denialism, as per the very Wikipedia page you cited. Then you got touchy because it was apparently too complicated for you, and didn't want to look past the headline thought.

What is a strawman is claiming that pointing out the existence of the Gulags is (somehow) holocaust denialism. Apparently.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Another Mysterious Death Hits Russian Oil Giant Lukoil

In a series of unexplained events that have rattled the Russian oil industry, Lukoil, one of the country's oil behemoths, has reported the sudden death of another top executive, marking the fourth such incident in a brief span.

The latest to join the unsettling trend is Deputy Director Vitaliy Robertus, who, at the age of 54, has unexpectedly passed away, according to a brief statement from Lukoil. The company did not disclose the cause of death for Robertus, who had dedicated over three decades of his career to Lukoil.

Robertus's death follows a string of fatalities among the oil giant's top brass over the last two years. Notably, in October 2023, the company mourned the loss of its board chairman, Vladimir Nekrasov, who died at 66 due to what was described as "acute heart failure."

Furthermore, in May 2022, former Lukoil executive Aleksandr Subbotin was found dead in a basement in Mytishchi, outside Moscow, with heart failure again cited as the cause. Adding to the series of tragic events, Ravil Maganov, the then-board chairman, died in September 2022 after falling from a hospital window in Moscow.

In the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine in March 2022, Lukoil stood out as one of the few Russian firms to openly oppose the military action. The company's board issued a public letter to shareholders, clients, and employees, advocating for "the quickest possible end to the armed conflict" in Ukraine. "We strongly support a lasting ceasefire and the resolution of problems through serious negotiations and diplomacy," the letter stated.

Since the onset of the invasion, there has been a notable spate of sudden and somewhat mysterious deaths among Russian oligarchs, further deepening the intrigue surrounding the recent fatalities within Lukoil's ranks.

[3-Body Problem]

You can keep repeating that claim all you want, it means nothing because that's not what's happening here. You can waffle on about anti-communist bullshit as much as you like as if it's somehow relevant but it changes nothing. By all means though, keep stuffing that strawman with those red herrings

Not a straw man. You engaged in soft core Holocaust denialism, as per the very Wikipedia page you cited. Then you got touchy because it was apparently too complicated for you, and didn't want to look past the headline thought.

What is a strawman is claiming that pointing out the existence of the Gulags is (somehow) holocaust denialism. Apparently.

I don't get what you gain by both sidesing this. We can want Ukraine to get the best possible outcome while remaining objective about what the reality of the situation actually is. I don't get why we're pissing back and forth over ideological issues when we could be focusing on the facts of the war.

Our virtue in defending Ukrainian honor or demonizing Russia has no bearing on the outcome of the war so let's leave it at the door, take a step back, and be as objective as possible.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Not a straw man. You engaged in soft core Holocaust denialism, as per the very Wikipedia page you cited. Then you got touchy because it was apparently too complicated for you, and didn't want to look past the headline thought.

What is a strawman is claiming that pointing out the existence of the Gulags is (somehow) holocaust denialism. Apparently.

I don't get what you gain by both sidesing this. We can want Ukraine to get the best possible outcome while remaining objective about what the reality of the situation actually is. I don't get why we're pissing back and forth over ideological issues when we could be focusing on the facts of the war.

Our virtue in defending Ukrainian honor or demonizing Russia has no bearing on the outcome of the war so let's leave it at the door, take a step back, and be as objective as possible.

Someone hasn't noticed the five news articles that I've listed on this page alone that pertain to exactly that There's a reason I bundled three of them in one post to not clutter this thread unnecessarily.

[Vympel]

What is a strawman is claiming that pointing out the existence of the Gulags is (somehow) holocaust denialism. Apparently.

That's not what you did, and everyone can see that's not what you did, which is why you've been called out. You attempted to draw an equivalence between the gulags and Nazi extermination camps, which is - by definition - an act of soft-core denial of the Holocaust.

I'm not sure whether this is you genuinely intending to minimise the size, scope and character of Nazi genocide or if you're just so brain-poisoned by wanting to win a debate on the internet you'll literally say fucking anything - without thinking - just because of the petty instinct of wanting to automatically gainsay whatever your opponent says.

Either way you're better off just stopping and not making it worse by continuing to insist that you didn't do what everyone saw you do.

Anyway, re this artilce you posted:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/vl ... dd4d&ei=40

You've really got to stop posting this MSN "take news from any idiot anywhere" dogshit. That video has been geolocated to Ukraine, not Russia:

https://x.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1768 ... 55840?s=20

The amount of disinformation in connection with the alleged Russian rebel assault on Belgorod is truly outstanding.
This footage shows Russian bomb attacks on Kharkiv oblast, not Belgorod.
50.351000, 37.261000

There is literally no reason to be scraping news off of a dogshit aggregator like MSN. They are transparently not checking anything.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

What is a strawman is claiming that pointing out the existence of the Gulags is (somehow) holocaust denialism. Apparently.

That's not what you did, and everyone can see that's not what you did, which is why you've been called out. You attempted to draw an equivalence between the gulags and Nazi extermination camps, which is - by definition - an act of soft-core denial of the Holocaust.

I'm not sure whether this is you genuinely intending to minimise the size, scope and character of Nazi genocide or if you're just so brain-poisoned by wanting to win a debate on the internet you'll literally say fucking anything - without thinking - just because of the petty instinct of wanting to automatically gainsay whatever your opponent says.

Either way you're better off just stopping and not making it worse by continuing to insist that you didn't do what everyone saw you do.

Bullshit. The only one guilty of minimising is you, by trying to sweep under rug the millions of deaths that Stalin and the USSR are directly responsible for.

[Vympel]

Bullshit. The only one guilty of minimising is you, by trying to sweep under rug the millions of deaths that Stalin and the USSR are directly responsible for.

Its very funny how you have nothing substantive to say - its just rote automatic "nuh uh!" gainsaying all the way down, which is what got you into trouble here in the first place. Sorry dude, but pointing out that the gulag system was of an entirely different character than Nazi extermination camps isn't 'minimising' anything, its just refusing to entertain the Holocaust denial you clearly can't help but peddle while still absurdly insisting you're not doing it.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Bullshit. The only one guilty of minimising is you, by trying to sweep under rug the millions of deaths that Stalin and the USSR are directly responsible for.

Its very funny how you have nothing substantive to say - its just rote automatic "nuh uh!" gainsaying all the way down, which is what got you into trouble here in the first place. Sorry dude, but pointing out that the gulag system was of an entirely different character than Nazi extermination camps isn't 'minimising' anything, its just refusing to entertain the Holocaust denial you clearly can't help but peddle while still absurdly insisting you're not doing it.

You mean like you've been doing? Maybe, dude, because literally nothing I've said has claimed that the Holocaust is a fabrication or exaggeration, yet you keep up with the broken record shit that it's "holocaust denial" with no evidence whatsoever. I don't know what fucked-up definition you're using but it's clearly the wrong one.

Or are you now denying that you said this:

I mean there must've been lots of Nazi style death camps and gas chambers and millions of dead, right?

And I specifically pointed out that yes, there were, specifically 1.6 million. But I guess that's just a detail you conveniently forgot.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

You can keep repeating that claim all you want, it means nothing because that's not what's happening here. You can waffle on about anti-communist bullshit as much as you like as if it's somehow relevant but it changes nothing. By all means though, keep stuffing that strawman with those red herrings

Not a straw man. You engaged in soft core Holocaust denialism, as per the very Wikipedia page you cited. Then you got touchy because it was apparently too complicated for you, and didn't want to look past the headline thought.

Yeah, funny how being accused of antisemitism does that, right?

[3-Body Problem]

What is a strawman is claiming that pointing out the existence of the Gulags is (somehow) holocaust denialism. Apparently.

That's not what you did, and everyone can see that's not what you did, which is why you've been called out. You attempted to draw an equivalence between the gulags and Nazi extermination camps, which is - by definition - an act of soft-core denial of the Holocaust.

I'm not sure whether this is you genuinely intending to minimise the size, scope and character of Nazi genocide or if you're just so brain-poisoned by wanting to win a debate on the internet you'll literally say fucking anything - without thinking - just because of the petty instinct of wanting to automatically gainsay whatever your opponent says.

Either way you're better off just stopping and not making it worse by continuing to insist that you didn't do what everyone saw you do.

Bullshit. The only one guilty of minimising is you, by trying to sweep under rug the millions of deaths that Stalin and the USSR are directly responsible for.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? For all the marks that the USSR and Stalin have left on modern-day Russia the two are not the same thing. Putin =/= Stalin. You can hate the Russians for starting a war, but this shit is not the look you want to be wearing.

[Vympel]

You mean like you've been doing? Maybe, dude, because literally nothing I've said has claimed that the Holocaust is a fabrication or exaggeration-

You're not being accused of saying its a fabrication. It's already been pointed out to you what soft-core denial is, which is exactly what you are doing and continue to do. Like people can read the posts here, who the fuck do you think you're fooling? You know exactly what the fuck we're talking about when you're being accused of denial. You have been told exactly what definition is being used. So you're being clearly wilfully disengenuous, aren't you?

Or are you now denying that you said this:

I mean there must've been lots of Nazi style death camps and gas chambers and millions of dead, right?

And I specifically pointed out that yes, there were, specifically 1.6 million. But I guess that's just a detail you conveniently forgot.

Jesus Christ - I haven't forgotten anything, you saying this dumbass, wildly offensive shit is the entire reason you were accused of Holocaust denial in the first place! There is no equivalence between the gulag system and Nazi style death camps, you wildly historically illiterate buffoon.

The labor camps of the gulag were not death camps designed for genocide. They were fucking prisons! There were no fucking gas chambers at the gulags. If you were sent to a labor camp, you were one of two things - an actual criminal, or a political prisoner. In either case, the overwhelming majority of prisoners who were sent to the gulags survived and were released by the state. The 1.6 million estimated to have died as a result of being sent to the gulag didn't die because they were fucking deliberately exterminated as part of a industrial genocide operation, they died because conditions were fucking brutal, and harsh. And that was particularly so during WW2, for very obvious reasons given the privations the USSR was going through at the time.

Those 1.6 million are estimated to have died over an almost three decade period, from 1930 to 1956. Like 18M people went through literally hundreds of camps and settlements over that period.

Does any of this make the gulags - analysed on their own - somehow ok? No. That's pretty obvious. No one should be kept in conditions with mortality rates anywhere approaching that, whoever they are (barring people like Nazi war criminals / genocidaires - fuck them IMO).

By contrast, the Nazi extermination camps - not prisons - but literal fucking genocide factories - exterminated 2.7 million people over a mere fraction of the time - 1941 to 1945. And there were only six of them. Genocide was their entire purpose for existence. If you were ever sent there, your literaly only chance of surviving - barring escape - was being liberated by the Allies before they got around to killing you.

And that's before I even get to the countless other millions the Nazis exterminated before they perfected their industrial style genocide factories that you so ludicrously try and equate to a mere gulag.

This is why your attempt to pretend that the gulags and Nazi extermination camps are actually the same thing - which is what you ludicrously tried to claim when I called you out in the above quote - is so fucking disgusting. Because there's absolutely no comparison here between what it was like to get sent to a gulag and what it was like to be sent to fucking Auschwitz. Zero.

Now shut the fuck up with your disgusting soft-core Holocaust denial, and stop embarassing yourself further. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[LadyTevar]

I've been staying out of this thread so I could be more level-headed and a better Moderator.

The Holocause Shit however has to stop, it's OFFTOPIC, it's a Distraction from the OP, and YES IT HAPPENED.

Any other posts refering to the Holocaust, refering to Stalin's Gulags vs the Holocaust, etc etc will be deleted to keep this thread ON TOPIC.

IS THAT UNDERSTOOD? Enterprise Sovereign?

[LadyTevar]

I've been staying out of this thread so I could be more level-headed and a better Moderator.

The Holocause Shit however has to stop, it's OFFTOPIC, it's a Distraction from the OP, and YES IT HAPPENED.

Any other posts refering to the Holocaust, refering to Stalin's Gulags vs the Holocaust, etc etc will be deleted to keep this thread ON TOPIC.

IS THAT UNDERSTOOD? Enterprise Sovereign?