Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Raw Shark
Stunt Driver / Babysitter
Posts: 7473
Joined: 2005-11-24 09:35am
Location: One Mile Up

Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Raw Shark »

You've seen the stories for the past few years. I get it - He's firmly beholden to the coal industry and also enjoying his once in a lifetime opportunity to line his pockets as the swing vote in the US Senate. That makes sense. But this latest thing threw me for a loop. I thought if there was one thing he could agree on that would appeal to his base, it was, "Rob from the rich; give to the poor." West Virginia has always had a strong, "Fuck the rich," vibe to me. What happened here? Have I completely misunderstood this region of my own country, or is this guy shooting himself in the foot?

West Virginia natives and residents, you are requested at the white phone.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28718
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Broomstick »

Former (and very brief) WV resident chiming in for an opinion that may or may not be worthless:

The power in WV is NOT the unwashed masses at the bottom of society - it's the robber barons at the top. Yes, the lower echelons have a Robin Hood mentality because that's a survival tactic but that's because they aren't the power in that state. Machin IS taking cues from his base if by that you mean the people who actually keep him in power.

When the little people in WV dare to stand up for themselves they get shot and bombed

So, yeah, you may not have a great understanding of the state.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

1. Manchin is a DINO.
2. Manchin's family got money, and this would hit his family
3. This would hit all his buddies who are coal barons and other scum of the earth.
4. Manchin's not given a shit about us peons for the last decade.

So, yeah, not fuckin' surprised he did this. I've sent letters, Ive bitched to him via his email, but I'd get more attention yelling at a brick wall.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16284
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Gandalf »

If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11862
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Crazedwraith »

Because they'd rather have the majority in the senate with a DINO than be a minority of proper Democrats? The Senate Leader has significant powers right?
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by MKSheppard »

Raw Shark wrote: 2022-07-16 08:02pmBut this latest thing threw me for a loop.
Because he's smarter than the average "soak the rich" idiot. You seriously think a billionaire is going to pay that tax?

A billionaire has at least $1,000,000,000 -- hiring an accountant or lawyer(s) to fix things up is about $100,000 (0.0001 decimals of wealth) to $200,000 a year tax; something they can easily swing.

Also, at those levels, they have access to tax dodges the normal person doesn't. Like for example, their house is actually owned by a corporation of which they are an employee; etc etc etc. In theory, the average person could do that, but making sure the taxes are done right so that the IRS doesn't screw you up is a full time job... so it's mainly for the ultra rich.

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4321
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Ralin »

MKSheppard wrote: 2022-07-17 05:55pm If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.
They can if they don't spend most of their money buying things.
User avatar
Coop D'etat
Jedi Knight
Posts: 713
Joined: 2007-02-23 01:38pm
Location: UBC Unincorporated land

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Coop D'etat »

Gandalf wrote: 2022-07-17 04:58pm If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?
Manchin is the West Virginia Democratic party. He's the top of the machine and the only viable candidate for statewide office. This is state that swings like, +40 GOP compared to the American mean. He can do whatever he wants. Even if he's giving the Democrats crumbs, he's still one of the Democrat's most valuable senators due to how ridiculously red leaning his seat is.

Basically, if you don't want to deal with Manchin, get enough Senate seats to deal with somebody else.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16284
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Gandalf »

Coop D'etat wrote: 2022-07-17 07:12pm
Gandalf wrote: 2022-07-17 04:58pm If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?
Manchin is the West Virginia Democratic party. He's the top of the machine and the only viable candidate for statewide office. This is state that swings like, +40 GOP compared to the American mean. He can do whatever he wants. Even if he's giving the Democrats crumbs, he's still one of the Democrat's most valuable senators due to how ridiculously red leaning his seat is.
This reminds me of the saying that went along the lines of "A Republican in California is a Democrat in Texas."

There's no centralised definition of Democrat, because that's just how it's set up. It's why I find it hard to call people like Manchin a DINO. He's just WV's version of a Democrat.
Basically, if you don't want to deal with Manchin, get enough Senate seats to deal with somebody else.
Also this.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

Coop D'etat wrote: 2022-07-17 07:12pm
Gandalf wrote: 2022-07-17 04:58pm If Manchin is such a DINO, how does he keep getting the nod to run?
Manchin is the West Virginia Democratic party. He's the top of the machine and the only viable candidate for statewide office. This is state that swings like, +40 GOP compared to the American mean. He can do whatever he wants. Even if he's giving the Democrats crumbs, he's still one of the Democrat's most valuable senators due to how ridiculously red leaning his seat is.

Basically, if you don't want to deal with Manchin, get enough Senate seats to deal with somebody else.
THIS.
ALL OF THIS.

Like his Uncle A. James. Manchin before him, Joe Manchin is so deep in the "Machine" that runs the WV elections, he's pretty much the only viable candidate. He's got all the Senior Citizens voting for him because he's a MANCHIN, he was the Governor, he's "one of us". (Did you know some of his uncles died in a mine explosion! They're a Coal Family! They UnderStand!)
Yeah, go take a look at the former Senator A. James Manchin, and you'll understand the playbook Joe's been running by.

And because he's that deep in the Machine (and People's Mind/Memory), there's really no one who can run against him. Ojeda tried, and then said the wrong thing at the wrong time and the WV Media tore him apart. Ojeda wasn't in the "Machine" so I'm pretty sure he was ran out deliberately. Pity, I liked where Ojeda was coming from.

Same thing with Sen. Moore-Capito -- she ran on being former Gov Arch Moore's daughter, and won because people liked Arch Moore.

And, yes, in WV, many of the voters, especially the older more conservative ones, are DINO, whether they know it or not. They've drank the GOP's talking points for decades and while they remain Democrats on paper, in the big elections (Senator, Governor, President), they vote for the GOP damn near every time. (Because GUNS! Because ABORTION! Because IMMIGRANTS! And yes, because COAL IS KING!)

It also doesn't help that WV's Presidential Election is "Winner Take All" even if they win by 51%.

I have voted every election since I was 18. I'm still gonna vote, because the Boomers are Dying and EVENTUALLY someone intelligent will break the Manchin hold. Until then... well... Manchin's got the Senator Nomination wrapped up tight. I either vote for him, or vote for whatever Trumpist Idiot is running on the GOP side (and yes, the most recent political ads still had GOP people claiming they 'believe in Trump' or 'support Trump')
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
GrosseAdmiralFox
Padawan Learner
Posts: 481
Joined: 2019-01-20 01:28pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by GrosseAdmiralFox »

Bismark once said, politics is the art of the possible. A lot of people here forget that. Without Manchin, we'll get another Obama presidency. Don't forget that.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2022-07-19 01:31am Bismark once said, politics is the art of the possible. A lot of people here forget that. Without Manchin, we'll get another Obama presidency. Don't forget that.
I'm going to assume you mean "Obama Presidency" being one where the GOP did it's very best to block every single thing Obama wanted done.

Because it didn't come across that way, and could be taken as racist or otherwise insulting.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
GrosseAdmiralFox
Padawan Learner
Posts: 481
Joined: 2019-01-20 01:28pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by GrosseAdmiralFox »

LadyTevar wrote: 2022-07-19 10:52am
GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2022-07-19 01:31am Bismark once said, politics is the art of the possible. A lot of people here forget that. Without Manchin, we'll get another Obama presidency. Don't forget that.
I'm going to assume you mean "Obama Presidency" being one where the GOP did it's very best to block every single thing Obama wanted done.

Because it didn't come across that way, and could be taken as racist or otherwise insulting.
The Obama Presidency, after the GOP managed to take both houses, was... obstructionist to the extreme. There is no denying it.

We're currently on a razor-thin margin, so you must stop thinking ideological purity and think more rationally. Hell, the former is the very reason that we're in this god-forsaken mess in the first place.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

GrosseAdmiralFox wrote: 2022-07-19 02:11pm The Obama Presidency, after the GOP managed to take both houses, was... obstructionist to the extreme. There is no denying it.

We're currently on a razor-thin margin, so you must stop thinking ideological purity and think more rationally. Hell, the former is the very reason that we're in this god-forsaken mess in the first place.
The Obama Presidency was not Obstructionist, as your wording above implies.

The GOP-lead Congress was Obstructionist, and Mitch McConnell is still sitting on over 400 House-approved measures that he refuses to let the Senate SEE, much less debate and vote on.

But this has very little to do with Joe Manchin. Although, once the news about McConnell blocking and sitting on House-approved measures came out, Manchin's emails started bragging that Manchin was "talking to McConnell to get the normal flow of work in order".
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Raw Shark
Stunt Driver / Babysitter
Posts: 7473
Joined: 2005-11-24 09:35am
Location: One Mile Up

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Raw Shark »

MKSheppard wrote: 2022-07-17 05:55pm
Raw Shark wrote: 2022-07-16 08:02pmBut this latest thing threw me for a loop.
Because he's smarter than the average "soak the rich" idiot. You seriously think a billionaire is going to pay that tax?

A billionaire has at least $1,000,000,000 -- hiring an accountant or lawyer(s) to fix things up is about $100,000 (0.0001 decimals of wealth) to $200,000 a year tax; something they can easily swing.

Also, at those levels, they have access to tax dodges the normal person doesn't. Like for example, their house is actually owned by a corporation of which they are an employee; etc etc etc. In theory, the average person could do that, but making sure the taxes are done right so that the IRS doesn't screw you up is a full time job... so it's mainly for the ultra rich.

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.
You're not wrong.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4321
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Ralin »

Raw Shark wrote: 2022-08-06 05:22pm
MKSheppard wrote: 2022-07-17 05:55pm
Raw Shark wrote: 2022-07-16 08:02pmBut this latest thing threw me for a loop.
Because he's smarter than the average "soak the rich" idiot. You seriously think a billionaire is going to pay that tax?

A billionaire has at least $1,000,000,000 -- hiring an accountant or lawyer(s) to fix things up is about $100,000 (0.0001 decimals of wealth) to $200,000 a year tax; something they can easily swing.

Also, at those levels, they have access to tax dodges the normal person doesn't. Like for example, their house is actually owned by a corporation of which they are an employee; etc etc etc. In theory, the average person could do that, but making sure the taxes are done right so that the IRS doesn't screw you up is a full time job... so it's mainly for the ultra rich.

If you really want to "soak the rich" increase sales taxes; as that's one thing they can't weasel out of.
You're not wrong.
Yeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

"Increase the Sales Tax"

REALLY? The Sales Tax is already an unfair tax, putting most of the pressure on working-class-poor like me, who spends $106 for every $100 in food. That might not seem a lot, but when you have $400 to spend on food, bills, utilities, gas/insurance for car? Oh, yeah, gas tax is 20% on top of that 6% sales tax too.

SALES TAXES don't hurt the rich. SALES TAXES hurt the POOR.

The only tax that will hurt the rich is Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, "Your money is just sitting in a bank gaining interest" Tax. Get the tax backets back to the 1950s, when they were charged 30-50%, while the poor were charged 6%, THEN IT WILL BE FAIR.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12724
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Capital controls, taxes on wealth transfers overboard, hit squads on tax evaders bin laden style.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

Well.. Manchin did pull it off. 50/50 split on the bill, but VP Tie-breaker Vote got it passed.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Raw Shark
Stunt Driver / Babysitter
Posts: 7473
Joined: 2005-11-24 09:35am
Location: One Mile Up

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Raw Shark »

Ralin wrote: 2022-08-06 08:56pmYeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.
Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10163
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Solauren »

Raw Shark wrote: 2022-08-11 08:55pm
Ralin wrote: 2022-08-06 08:56pmYeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.
Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?
Alternative is to get a license for a store, buy stuff in bulk, use what you want, sell a little bit to someone to keep things 'legit', and then toss the rest off, and right it off as 'business losses'. In the end, you get more back then you paid in sales taxes.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23132
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by LadyTevar »

Solauren wrote: 2022-08-11 09:22pm
Raw Shark wrote: 2022-08-11 08:55pm
Ralin wrote: 2022-08-06 08:56pmYeah he is. Sales tax is really easy to weasel out of if you're wealthy. You can do it by not spending most of the money you have any given month like a poor person does. Bam, now most of your income is completely untaxed.
Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?
Alternative is to get a license for a store, buy stuff in bulk, use what you want, sell a little bit to someone to keep things 'legit', and then toss the rest off, and right it off as 'business losses'. In the end, you get more back then you paid in sales taxes.
It is Very Very Sad how true this is
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10163
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Joe Manchin (WV/DINO) - Somebody Explain This

Post by Solauren »

LadyTevar wrote: 2022-08-11 11:29pm
Solauren wrote: 2022-08-11 09:22pm
Raw Shark wrote: 2022-08-11 08:55pm

Well, you're still not wrong. That doesn't mean that I like what you're sayin', but since when was that a requirement around here?
Alternative is to get a license for a store, buy stuff in bulk, use what you want, sell a little bit to someone to keep things 'legit', and then toss the rest off, and right it off as 'business losses'. In the end, you get more back then you paid in sales taxes.
It is Very Very Sad how true this is
I work for the government in tax collection. This is how some legitimate corner-stores end up operating.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
Post Reply