The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-28 07:45pm

1. Thanks Formless for that. I had heard there was problems with the study but I haven't gotten around to looking into it. It was certainly illuminating to know about the author.

2. The thing with, even if viral load is decreased, the clinical symptoms are the most important things. If say the amount of virus is less by 10% but it makes no different, then so what.

3. Another drug tocilizumab is being used to fight the cytokine storm caused by the virus. While there is still a lot we don't know about the virus, but if it kills predominantly via causing the immune system to overreact and release lots of cytokines, then we might simply suppress the cytokine storm and let the immune system clear out the virus.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-28 08:56pm

https://dash-coronavirus-2020.herokuapp.com

This tracker has a few other features which the John Hopkins one doesn't including sorting by active cases, cumulative cases, alphabetical order and fatality rate.

We can see which health systems are getting overwhelmed.

Image
new image hd

Italy has been hammered. Its getting 10% fatality rate. We can see even developed nations like Spain, France, UK, Netherlands getting fatality rate higher than the 3.4% the WHO estimates at. If we can flatten the curve we can reduce casualties.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope » 2020-03-28 10:12pm

First COVID19 death in New Zealand. We are currently at 514 cases.
mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-28 01:47am
aerius wrote:
2020-03-28 01:28am
mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-28 01:19am
More fallout from Trump's chloroquine speech. Now people who actually have hydroxychloroquine for their medical conditions can't get it.
To be honest, I'm not sure if that's a Trump problem or a US healthcare industry are a bunch of total fucking shitbags problem. I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the industry did the math and realized that they could make a much fatter profit by jacking up the price of chloroquine and selling it exclusively to covid-19 patients.
That was what I was thinking too. Someone realised that dummies are going to believe what Trump says whether its true or not and decided to sell them to people concerned about covid 19. I wouldn't blame Trump for all of it. He was just the match that lit the room full of gunpowder.
I wonder how the malpractice lawsuits by the patients or their estates will go.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-28 10:23pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-28 10:51am
In the above case of nationalisting hospitals, we have to ask A) do the states still run it and B) can the states afford it, or do they need the Federal government's help and c) if that happens, the Federal government is going to ask to get involve running a hospital, a task traditionally since WWII assign to the states. You can imagine the fights that is going to happen between the states and the Federal government.

Not saying its not possible to nationalise, but boy is it going to be messy.
Oh, definitely. I doubt we'll do anything but cave as a reality, unfortunately, but it'd be nice if we demanded a share in the company in exchange for what amounts to a cash bailout. I think we'll be seeing some interesting constitutional law challenges globally in the next few years stemming out of temporary arrangements becoming semi-permanent, though - makes me wish I'd focused more on that side of law.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-28 10:53pm

Cases continue to mount in the Navajo Nation.

The data predicts a steep rise in mortality during the course of the outbreak as ICU beds become unavailable. We already knew that was the case, but now there's numbers, and it's about 3 times higher once the ICU gets clogged. There's also an informal proposal floating about to rethink who gets a ventilator to prioritize patients with worse chances who will die faster if the intervention is unsuccessful to try and improve ventilator access by reducing individual time on the ventilator, increasing the number of available slots over the course of the outbreak.

Florida is about to receive a third full shipment because of the SNS fuckery. The initial full shipment could be put down to a combination of Florida asking for less than states that had their requests partially filled and having a combination of a very high population and a high elderly population, but at this point it's moved beyond that into malfeasance territory.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-29 12:05am

Australia is predicted to run out of ICU beds between 9th and 12 th of April.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... s-c-758090

That was the week I was originally meant to be my last week and then I was originally planning to holiday in Europe. As such, I have applied to the government to extend my stay at my current practice, ending around July. If paperwork is all sorted out, I want to do at least another month at the practice, where Australians will need doctors. At least if I can keep patients out of hospital it puts less strain on our system.

----------------------
Meanwhile I am only going out now for food and groceries. Literally went out for like 15 minutes and back in today.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-29 12:36am

Continuing the news roundup,
There are now concerns the fractured state of healthcare for Native American communities could lead to waves of the disease emerging off reservations after the initial outbreak ends. Leaving aside the questionable tone, that's a big problem if it does happen.

Urban Indigenous communities here in Australia are in real trouble since they can't lockdown the entire town like the remote communities can.

There are calls to raise the DSP in line with the recent rise to Jobseeker allowances for the duration of the crisis, as currently the disabled are being left behind.
mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-29 12:05am
Australia is predicted to run out of ICU beds between 9th and 12 th of April.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... s-c-758090

That was the week I was originally meant to be my last week and then I was originally planning to holiday in Europe. As such, I have applied to the government to extend my stay at my current practice, ending around July. If paperwork is all sorted out, I want to do at least another month at the practice, where Australians will need doctors. At least if I can keep patients out of hospital it puts less strain on our system.

----------------------
Meanwhile I am only going out now for food and groceries. Literally went out for like 15 minutes and back in today.
If we ever meet, remind me to buy you a beer/coffee for staying in practice during this.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by chimericoncogene » 2020-03-29 03:28am

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-29 12:05am
Australia is predicted to run out of ICU beds between 9th and 12 th of April.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-w ... s-c-758090

That was the week I was originally meant to be my last week and then I was originally planning to holiday in Europe. As such, I have applied to the government to extend my stay at my current practice, ending around July. If paperwork is all sorted out, I want to do at least another month at the practice, where Australians will need doctors. At least if I can keep patients out of hospital it puts less strain on our system.

----------------------
Meanwhile I am only going out now for food and groceries. Literally went out for like 15 minutes and back in today.
Bravo and good luck, MrFriendlyGuy.
The situation in East Asia is that patients have generally stopped going to doctors and dentists out of fear of COVID infection from other patients. A lot of docs are reporting empty practices and nothing to do, and queues and waitlists have never been shorter, Of course, this is in the runup before the outbreak blows up for real (my place has it contained, but the numbers are trending upward). We'll see again in a week.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-29 04:24am

chimericoncogene wrote:
2020-03-29 03:28am

Bravo and good luck, MrFriendlyGuy.
The situation in East Asia is that patients have generally stopped going to doctors and dentists out of fear of COVID infection from other patients. A lot of docs are reporting empty practices and nothing to do, and queues and waitlists have never been shorter, Of course, this is in the runup before the outbreak blows up for real (my place has it contained, but the numbers are trending upward). We'll see again in a week.
We used telehealth ie phone consults. The program has now been extended as of tomorrow IIRC for all patients, not just those who would be at risk from COVID 19 if they got it , ie those with pre existing conditions. Its not ideal, some patients really need to be examined. Some who are due for blood tests, scripts we can do a phone consult. So all GPs can offer this service to minimise people going out.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-29 04:34am

People over the age of 70 are being urged to stay home as much as possible. Oh, but it's if you're over 50 if you're Indigenous. I wonder why that might be.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by chimericoncogene » 2020-03-29 05:26am

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-29 04:24am

We used telehealth ie phone consults. The program has now been extended as of tomorrow IIRC for all patients, not just those who would be at risk from COVID 19 if they got it , ie those with pre existing conditions. Its not ideal, some patients really need to be examined. Some who are due for blood tests, scripts we can do a phone consult. So all GPs can offer this service to minimise people going out.
Intriguing. I haven't heard of such measures being implemented over here, but I'm a bit removed from the whole thing (I think public healthcare psych is doing it though; we're not super-ahead-of-the-curve on tech). But I can't imagine the average middle-aged one-man-band GP running such a system over here (well, maybe the younger tech-savvier bunch) either.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-29 05:51am

loomer wrote:
2020-03-28 07:51am
Do we know if those contractors are located within Michigan or external to it?
None have been named that I know of.

Could be either or both.

If it's, say, something like GM - could be headquartered in Michigan but have facilities all over the world. But with Trump activating the Defense Production Act he can not only tell GM to produce X he can also direct where X goes. So maybe it's just as well he's dragging his feet on utilizing that act, or maybe no one has told him about that part of it yet.

But it's pretty damn clear Trump sees this as an opportunity to punish and/or eliminate those he sees as "competition" or "enemies". Even if that includes entire States full of people. He'll abandon millions because he doesn't like just one person.

No wonder humanity invented the concept of hell - a person like that, you want to see them burn for eternity....
Last edited by Broomstick on 2020-03-29 05:51am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-29 05:51am

chimericoncogene wrote:
2020-03-29 05:26am

Intriguing. I haven't heard of such measures being implemented over here, but I'm a bit removed from the whole thing (I think public healthcare psych is doing it though; we're not super-ahead-of-the-curve on tech). But I can't imagine the average middle-aged one-man-band GP running such a system over here (well, maybe the younger tech-savvier bunch) either.
Nothing too different from the already tech savvy thing practices already do. Appointment is displayed on software, so a time is simply assign to call the patient. Scripts for faxed to the pharmacy and hard copy via snail mail (its a legal requirement they have the original copy) and patient arranges for pharmacy to collect the medications.
--------------------------------------------------
And in other news, another day, another health worker in the US is fired for speaking out against poor protection for workers.

The Hill because Seattle Times won't display even when I disable ad block
Doctor who criticized hospital's measures against coronavirus is fired
BY MORGAN GSTALTER - 03/28/20 09:30 AM EDT

A Washington state emergency room doctor who spoke out about what he called a lack of protective measures being implemented against the coronavirus at his hospital has been fired.

Dr. Ming Lin wrote in a Facebook post on Friday that he was terminated from his job at PeaceHealth St. Joseph Medical Center in Bellingham, Wash.

The firing of the 17-year hospital veteran comes after he made public pleas on social media and through the news media for his employer to acquire more safety equipment to protect staff during the COVID-19 outbreak, which has hit Washington especially hard.

Lin, who worked in a trauma center near the World Trade Center in New York City during the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, told The Seattle Times that he was preparing for work Friday when he got a message that he didn't need to come in because his shift was covered.

When he called his supervisor, he was reportedly told, “You’ve been terminated.”

Lin said he was told he would be contacted by human resources staff from his employer, TeamHealth. The national firm based out of Tennessee that contracts with PeaceHealth’s emergency department.

“I’ll be OK,” he told the outlet. “It’s a blow to my ego more than anything.”

A spokesperson for PeaceHealth St. Joseph confirmed to The Seattle Times that Lin had been terminated by the hospital but declined to provide comment.

In a statement to The Hill, a TeamHealth spokesperson said Lin has not been terminated by the contractor and that the company "is committed to engaging with him to try to find a path forward."

"Now more than ever, we need every available doctor, and we will work with Dr. Lin to find the right location for him," the spokesperson said.

Lin had been regularly posting to his Facebook page about the conditions in the hospital, accusing PeaceHealth of failing to quickly protect workers.

He told The Seattle Times that his supervisors threatened to fire him earlier this month after he spoke with reporters, but the doctor refused to take his social media posts down when asked.

Lin alleged that PeaceHealth St. Joseph refused to screen all patients outside the hospital, bringing potential COVID-19 patients into the emergency room waiting area, which is frequently crowded.

Two emergency department workers told the newspaper that they shared Lin’s concerns about the possible spread of the virus.

In a YouTube video filmed shortly before his firing, Lin said nurses triaging potential COVID-19 patients exhibiting cough or fever weren’t provided masks.

“I’m not sure what St. Joe’s motive is. I’m not going to comment whether this is some financial issue or whatever it is,” Lin said in the video. “I think when a hospital to me is not just responsible for the patients there, but it needs to stand out in the community as a leader to protect the unwanted, to protect the homeless, to protect the elderly.”

Washington state was the initial U.S. epicenter for coronavirus. As of Friday night, there were 3,700 COVID-19 cases confirmed by the Washington State Health Department, with 175 deaths.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-29 05:58am

MKSheppard wrote:
2020-03-28 08:12am
I'd like to tell you about how Chinese Military Police hunted down escapees from Wuhan all over China.

Wait what? I didn't mean escapees from Wuhan. I meant New York, and I meant the Rhode Island National Guard
You make it sound like people are being gunned down in the streets and that's not the case at all.

I'm really fucking sorry if it bites your ass, but we're currently experiencing a global emergency. No one is being dragged off by the heels to be thrown in a hole. They ARE getting a visit and being told that yes, the rules apply to them, too. They have to self-quarantine for 14 days. This is not optional. They can do it in comfort in their nice second home or, if they can't behave, they'll be arrested and locked up to protect everyone else. Being rich and privileged does not make you immune. Indeed, it is arguable that it's the rich and powerful jetting about the planet and congregating in vacation spots that have been a main driver of the pandemic in the early phases.

Your freedom to move about ends where your movements put others at risk of severe illness or death by slow suffocation as their lungs fill up with fluid and shut down.

This isn't forever.

I've got a neighbor who is spending weeks in a four room apartment with two adults and five children - the fucking rich in their multi-thousand foot mansions can damn well do the same.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by streetad » 2020-03-29 06:01am

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-28 08:56pm
https://dash-coronavirus-2020.herokuapp.com

This tracker has a few other features which the John Hopkins one doesn't including sorting by active cases, cumulative cases, alphabetical order and fatality rate.

We can see which health systems are getting overwhelmed.

Image
new image hd

Italy has been hammered. Its getting 10% fatality rate. We can see even developed nations like Spain, France, UK, Netherlands getting fatality rate higher than the 3.4% the WHO estimates at. If we can flatten the curve we can reduce casualties.
Certainly the British and French figures are being skewed by the fact that they are still mostly only testing people when they are hospitalised, so only the more serious cases are being counted. Neither country has reached that point of maximum ICU capacity yet, although certain areas like London are getting close.

Spain and Italy have both passed the point where there are sufficient ICU beds to cope.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-29 06:09am

So basically, 3-4% death rate or lower is with adequate health care capabilities, and it jump up to 6-11% in countries whose health system is overwhelmed?
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-29 06:09am

loomer wrote:
2020-03-28 10:53pm
Florida is about to receive a third full shipment because of the SNS fuckery. The initial full shipment could be put down to a combination of Florida asking for less than states that had their requests partially filled and having a combination of a very high population and a high elderly population, but at this point it's moved beyond that into malfeasance territory.
Oh, absolutely - Trump likes Florida and sees it as part of his base so he protects it.

Meanwhile... oh, hell, we all know the rest.

I sometimes suspect the only reason my state is getting anything is because our governor and Pence are actual buddies. Which makes me feel vaguely dirty.
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If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-29 06:12am

loomer wrote:
2020-03-29 04:34am
People over the age of 70 are being urged to stay home as much as possible. Oh, but it's if you're over 50 if you're Indigenous. I wonder why that might be.
Fuck if I know. It's not like the non-Indigenous have any immunity to this, either.

In my area it's "stay home if you're over 60 and/or have additional risk factors regardless of age", why is it higher in your area?
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Ace Pace » 2020-03-29 06:13am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-03-29 06:09am
So basically, 3-4% death rate or lower is with adequate health care capabilities, and it jump up to 6-11% in countries whose health system is overwhelmed?
Yes. And the death rate may be lower if asymptomatic people are tested, as is the case in SK and Germany.

It's also hard to give numbers relating to what happens when the health system is overwhelmed as each region is unique. At that point, demographics and normal flow of deaths also matter.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-29 06:16am

Ace Pace wrote:
2020-03-29 06:13am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-03-29 06:09am
So basically, 3-4% death rate or lower is with adequate health care capabilities, and it jump up to 6-11% in countries whose health system is overwhelmed?
Yes. And the death rate may be lower if asymptomatic people are tested, as is the case in SK and Germany.

It's also hard to give numbers relating to what happens when the health system is overwhelmed as each region is unique. At that point, demographics and normal flow of deaths also matter.
Yeah, one explanation that I've seen for the exceptionally high rate in Italy is that Italy has a disproportionately elderly population I believe?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-29 06:18am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-03-29 06:16am
Ace Pace wrote:
2020-03-29 06:13am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-03-29 06:09am
So basically, 3-4% death rate or lower is with adequate health care capabilities, and it jump up to 6-11% in countries whose health system is overwhelmed?
Yes. And the death rate may be lower if asymptomatic people are tested, as is the case in SK and Germany.

It's also hard to give numbers relating to what happens when the health system is overwhelmed as each region is unique. At that point, demographics and normal flow of deaths also matter.
Yeah, one explanation that I've seen for the exceptionally high rate in Italy is that Italy has a disproportionately elderly population I believe?
Not just an older population, but a higher percentage of smokers (by far), plenty of multi-generational households, and a lot of very close physical contact as part of day to day activity and greetings.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-29 06:40am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-03-29 06:09am
So basically, 3-4% death rate or lower is with adequate health care capabilities, and it jump up to 6-11% in countries whose health system is overwhelmed?
Some areas have lower than 1% in some parts of China when they see over 1000 confirmed cases. But yeah, not enough ventilators etc and people who might otherwise be saved die. Public health strategies essentially aim at flattening the curve so that cases don't all come in a short span of period. This gives us time to discharge patients and free up beds, get more medical equipment, work out better treatments etc.
Broomstick wrote:
2020-03-29 06:12am
loomer wrote:
2020-03-29 04:34am
People over the age of 70 are being urged to stay home as much as possible. Oh, but it's if you're over 50 if you're Indigenous. I wonder why that might be.
Fuck if I know. It's not like the non-Indigenous have any immunity to this, either.

In my area it's "stay home if you're over 60 and/or have additional risk factors regardless of age", why is it higher in your area?
Higher proportion of comorbidities eg diabetes, coupled with poorer access to healthcare and also tending to have multigenerational families living close together making it easier for the virus to spread. Australian guidelines do recommend various immunisations for respiratory infections given at a younger age for indigenous adults vs non indigenous population.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-29 06:58am

So, when Trump bends to pressure from actual human beings to send bits of the national stockpile to the pandemic hotspots even when he doesn't like the governor or the voters he sends broken ventilators
SAN JOSE, Calif. (KRON) — As COVID-19 continues to spread throughout the United States — where it has the most cases in the world — local, state and federal governments have been working together to slow the spread of the deadly virus.

Governor Gavin Newsom said Saturday that Los Angeles received 170 broken ventilators from the national stockpile.

Bloom Energy is based out of San Jose. The company refurbishes thousands of out-of-service ventilators throughout the state. It is now working on the 170 ventilators for the city of Los Angeles.

“In response to the COVID-19 pandemic and as the U.S. faces a critical shortage of ventilators, Bloom is exercising its expertise and capabilities in product end-of-life management to begin refurbishing the thousands of out-of-service ventilators available in the U.S. We are working with state agencies and customers – many of which are hospitals and medical device companies – to identify supplies of unused, out-of-service ventilators.”

“Rather than complaining, we put them on a truck, drove them up overnight, and had @Bloom_Energy get to work fixing them,” Newsom tweeted. “Monday they’ll be back in LA — fixed. That’s the spirit of CA.”
Well, at least California got fixable busted shit. Some states like Michigan haven't gotten anything... I'm sure that will be rectified by the next shipment of busted vital equipment to a state Trump doesn't like will be beyond repair. :roll: :banghead:
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The Romulan Republic
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-29 07:03am

Honestly, if Trump is (as he appears to be) deliberately sabotaging aid to Blue States, likely resulting in the deaths or thousands of their citizens, then its hard for me to see that as anything but an act of war against those states by the Federal government. This is political murder and state terrorism, plain and simple.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Mr Bean » 2020-03-29 07:28am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-03-29 07:03am
Honestly, if Trump is (as he appears to be) deliberately sabotaging aid to Blue States, likely resulting in the deaths or thousands of their citizens, then its hard for me to see that as anything but an act of war against those states by the Federal government. This is political murder and state terrorism, plain and simple.
:banghead: He is the head of state of the United States and this is not the Confederacy. He can not commit acts of war against himself that's moronic, nor it is political murder or state terrorism since deaths are not by his hand but by a virus. If you make no move to help a dying man you are not guilty of murder if we applied that standard to anything else then every single politician is a murderer. By your standard former President Barack Obama is also guilty because a task force in his administration foresaw the danger wrote a pretty report on it but failed to put in place the needed stock piles of good or establish the necessary frame work.

The thing I detest about you RR is that your never angry enough you must be MORE angry than you are now. The violations of the emoluments clause, the political insider dealing for his friends, the Russian corruption, the perversion of the Justice system, the building of Concentration Camps inside the USA, the whole sale kidnapping of children from migrant parents, the fact we mostly ignore civilians when targeting airstrikes, the brinkmanship. The incompetence of federal response and misappropriation of funds during two Hurricanes now.

I could keep going but again at no point do I feel the need to try INVENT new crimes for President Donald Trump to be guilty off. You know what? I'm good, if he does a new notable thing I'll add that to the list. This aide thing? That's nothing, that's just incompetence and ego, it's not like he's hoarding supplies for his red states that's not how this is working he's just being useless and vindictive.

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