Trump Uses Foreign Aid to extort Ukraine

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Elfdart
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Trump Uses Foreign Aid to extort Ukraine

Post by Elfdart »

So it looks like Cheeto Mussolini threatened to withhold aid to the new Ukrainian government unless they investigated Joe Biden's son. I'm going to go ahead and post the whole article because it's from the Wall Street Journal and they might stick it behind their paywall.

WSJ
Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden’s Son
Interactions under focus amid whistleblower complaint on U.S. president’s dealings with a world leader


By Alan Cullison,
Rebecca Ballhaus and
Dustin Volz
Updated Sept. 20, 2019 4:03 pm ET

President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden ’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter.

“He told him that he should work with [Mr. Giuliani] on Biden, and that people in Washington wanted to know” whether allegations were true or not, one of the people said. Mr. Trump didn’t mention a provision of foreign aid to Ukraine on the call, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid-pro-quo for his cooperation on any investigation.

Mr. Giuliani in June and August met with top Ukrainian officials about the prospect of an investigation, he said in an interview. The Trump lawyer has suggested Mr. Biden as vice president worked to shield from investigation a Ukrainian gas company with ties to his son, Hunter Biden. A Ukrainian official earlier this year said he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Mr. Biden or his son.

After the July call between the two presidents, the Ukrainian government said Mr. Trump had congratulated the new president on his election and expressed hope that his government would push ahead with investigations and corruption probes that had stymied relations between the two countries.

The White House declined to comment. The Biden campaign didn’t respond to a request for comment. Last week, a Biden campaign spokesman said of Mr. Giuliani’s efforts to pressure Ukraine: “This is beneath us as Americans.”

Mr. Trump on Friday defended his July call with Mr. Zelensky as “totally appropriate” but declined to say whether he had asked the Ukrainian leader to investigate Mr. Biden, a former U.S. vice president. “It doesn’t matter what I discussed,” he said.

At the same time, he reiterated his call for an investigation into Mr. Biden’s effort as vice president to oust Ukraine’s prosecutor general. “Somebody ought to look into that," he told reporters.

In recent months, Mr. Giuliani has mounted an extensive effort to pressure Ukraine to do so. He told The Wall Street Journal he met with an official from the Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office in June in Paris, and met with Andriy Yermak, a top aide to Mr. Zelensky in Madrid in August. Mr. Giuliani told the Journal earlier this month that Mr. Yermak assured him the Ukrainian government would “get to the bottom” of the Biden matter.

The August meeting came weeks before the Trump administration began reviewing the status of $250 million in foreign aid to Ukraine, which the administration released earlier this month. Mr. Giuliani said he wasn’t aware of the issue with the funds to Ukraine at the time of the meeting.

He said his meeting with Mr. Yermak was set up by the State Department, and said he briefed the department on their conversation later. The State Department had no immediate comment.

The interactions between the president, Mr. Giuliani and Ukraine have come under scrutiny in recent days in the wake of a whistleblower complaint that a person familiar with the matter said involves the president’s communications with a foreign leader. The complaint, which the Washington Post reported centers on Ukraine, has prompted a new standoff between Congress and the executive branch.

Separately, lawmakers have been investigating whether the president or his lawyer sought to pressure the Ukrainian government to pursue probes in an effort to benefit Mr. Trump’s re-election bid.

Mr. Trump is to meet with Mr. Zelensky in person for the first time next week, during the annual United Nations General Assembly gathering in New York.

Michael Atkinson, the Trump-appointed inspector general of the intelligence community, met Thursday morning with the House Intelligence Committee in a closed session to discuss the whistleblower complaint. Mr. Atkinson declined to tell lawmakers the substance of the complaint or whether it involves the president, but he did say it involves more than one episode and is based on a series of events, according to several people who attended or were briefed on the meeting.

Joseph Maguire, a retired Navy vice admiral serving as the acting director of national intelligence, is to appear before both the Senate and House intelligence committees next week about the complaint, though it remains unclear if he will be willing to divulge details about its underlying substance.

Stymied Democrats in Congress continued to mull potential avenues to obtain the complaint. Rep. Adam Schiff (D., Calif.), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said he was considering a lawsuit to obtain the complaint or withholding funding from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

Mr. Schiff has accused Mr. Maguire of violating the law by not sending the complaint to Congress, as required under the federal whistleblower statute.

“It’s been very hard for the director of national intelligence to explain why he is the first ever in that position to withhold an urgent whistleblower complaint from Congress,” Mr. Schiff told reporters.

Mr. Maguire’s office consulted the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, which determined that the allegation didn’t meet the statutory definition of an “urgent concern” requiring reporting to the intelligence committees, the Justice Department said.

That guidance is binding on the executive branch, legal experts said, and it remains unclear how or whether Mr. Maguire could transmit the complaint to lawmakers now.

Even before the debate over the whistleblower complaint, Democratic lawmakers had begun investigating interactions with Ukraine by the president and his lawyer. Earlier this month, the House Foreign Affairs, Intelligence and Oversight committees sent letters to the White House and State Department seeking records of interactions involving the president and Mr. Giuliani and the Ukrainian government.

Lawmakers are investigating whether there was any connection between the review of foreign aid to Ukraine and the efforts to pressure Kiev to look into Mr. Biden.

In the interview this month, Mr. Giuliani said he had sought in the spring to meet with Mr. Zelensky—at the time Ukraine’s president-elect—and planned a trip to Kiev to pressure the Ukrainian government to pursue two investigations: one into whether Ukraine, under its previous leader, had sought in 2016 to hurt the Trump campaign and bolster his opponent; and another into diplomatic efforts in the country by Mr. Biden, who is currently leading the Democratic presidential field.

Mr. Giuliani ultimately canceled that trip after his plan was made public. Mr. Trump was aware of the planned meeting, he said.

Mr. Giuliani’s criticism of Mr. Biden centers on the then-vice president’s efforts to seek the ouster of former Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Shokin, who had investigated a private Ukrainian gas company, Burisma Group, of which Hunter Biden was a board member.

Mr. Giuliani has accused Mr. Biden of acting to protect his son, a lawyer who has been involved in several investment and consulting firms, even though Mr. Shokin had already completed his investigation of Burisma Group before he left office.

Mr. Biden has said he sought Mr. Shokin’s ouster because he wasn’t doing enough to investigate corruption. Other countries had also criticized Ukraine for not appropriately addressing the country’s corruption problems.

Yuriy Lutsenko, Ukraine’s prosecutor general at the time, told Bloomberg News in May he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Mr. Biden or his son.

In an interview Thursday evening, Mr. Giuliani said he wasn’t aware whether the whistleblower complaint related to Ukraine. But in a Twitter post later that evening, he defended the possibility that Mr. Trump had urged Mr. Zelensky to investigate his potential campaign opponent.

“A President telling a Pres-elect of a well known corrupt country he better investigate corruption that affects US is doing his job,” Mr. Giuliani wrote.

Mr. Giuliani said earlier this month that Mr. Trump likely would raise the Biden matter with Mr. Zelensky when they meet, saying the matter was “on his mind.” A senior administration official said Friday that the two would discuss how to expand energy cooperation and trade ties.
This is like three classics of political hooliganism rolled into one:

1) Bush Sr got the John Major government to go rummaging through Bill Clinton's passport file, breaking US and UK law. Nothing much came of it, probably because Bush lost anyway.

2) Nixon shook down the Greek Junta (made up in part of Nazi collaborators) for the cash that helped pay for The Plumbers: his thuggish henchmen who committed multiple felonies.

3) Nixon won the 1968 in large part because the Paris Peace Talks to end the Vietnam War were sabotaged by Tricky Dick's campaign in concert with the government of South Vietnam and a few whack-jobs like Anna Chennault.

So Trump was so desperate to kneecap Biden by framing up his son that he threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine. When the kneecapping failed to commence, he did cut off the aid. If this is true, it's WAY more damning than anything alleged from the 2016 campaign. He's extorting a foreign government to falsely attack a US citizen for political gain. The fact that this was published in the pro-Trump WSJ is even more damning.

If the Dems can't get it up to vote to impeach with this smoking gun, they're not going to impeach, period. In that case, fuck 'em.
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Re: Trump Uses Foreign Aid to extort Ukraine

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Trump colludes, again, this time with added coercion.

Naturally, Elfdart finds a way to spin this into downplaying the collusion in 2016, and attacking the Democrats. :roll:

Anyway, impeachment is coming, with or without this. At the very least, I am fairly confident now that Nadler and the Judiciary Committee will recomend it, and that most House Democrats will vote for it. Its possible that it could fail anyway, because a Democratic minority plus Republicans will narrowly block it (naturally, certain people would use that small Democratic minority as "proof" that "Both Sides are just as bad" and people should therefore not vote Democrat and hand the election to Trump). But I'd give it 50/50, 40/60 at my most pessimistic, in favour of impeachment even before this. Now? 50/50 at worst, 60/40 in favour at best.

Conviction won't happen in Moscow Mitch's Senate, but that's not the point here. We can't control what Republicans do- we can only do our duty, and hope to convince the public that we were right to do it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump Uses Foreign Aid to extort Ukraine

Post by The Romulan Republic »

One bright spot of this clusterfuck: demands for impeachment have gained new life. I've seen more support from mainstream media outlets for impeachment that I ever have before in the last day or so. And Pelosi's official Facebook page is flooded with demands that she support impeachment.

Pelosi is pretty much at odds with most of her party, both in and out of office, as well as much of the press now. And Warren (who, let's face it, is probably the likeliest Presidential nominee at this point) outright accused her of "complicity" in Trump's crimes.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Tiriol
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Re: Trump Uses Foreign Aid to extort Ukraine

Post by Tiriol »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-09-21 12:57am Trump colludes, again, this time with added coercion.

Naturally, Elfdart finds a way to spin this into downplaying the collusion in 2016, and attacking the Democrats. :roll:

Anyway, impeachment is coming, with or without this. At the very least, I am fairly confident now that Nadler and the Judiciary Committee will recomend it, and that most House Democrats will vote for it. Its possible that it could fail anyway, because a Democratic minority plus Republicans will narrowly block it (naturally, certain people would use that small Democratic minority as "proof" that "Both Sides are just as bad" and people should therefore not vote Democrat and hand the election to Trump). But I'd give it 50/50, 40/60 at my most pessimistic, in favour of impeachment even before this. Now? 50/50 at worst, 60/40 in favour at best.

Conviction won't happen in Moscow Mitch's Senate, but that's not the point here. We can't control what Republicans do- we can only do our duty, and hope to convince the public that we were right to do it.
Elfdart DOES have a point, you know: if the Democrats don't have spine to try to impeach Trump after all this, they will not do it ever, unless he commits a murder of a toddler live on television after ordering nuking of Beijing. At some point, one has to take a stand or accept that one's failure to do so helped a madman to cling to power (and possibly destroyed one's own political base).
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-09-22 03:18am One bright spot of this clusterfuck: demands for impeachment have gained new life. I've seen more support from mainstream media outlets for impeachment that I ever have before in the last day or so. And Pelosi's official Facebook page is flooded with demands that she support impeachment.

Pelosi is pretty much at odds with most of her party, both in and out of office, as well as much of the press now. And Warren (who, let's face it, is probably the likeliest Presidential nominee at this point) outright accused her of "complicity" in Trump's crimes.
Good. My non-informed view is that Pelosi is so mired in the Congressional politics and Democrats' inner power struggles that she fails to comprehend what devastation Trump is really wreaking and how a normal game of politics won't help her. She might even break her own party if she won't accept that Trump and his crop of Republicans are a danger to the US itself and to the rest of the world.
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Re: Trump Uses Foreign Aid to extort Ukraine

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I think the important thing to remember is that most Democrats in the House are already at least soft yes votes on impeachment. The problem is that if, say, thirty or so (out of over 200) defect on an impeachment vote, then that combined with the lockstep Republican loyalty to the Orange Furher will kill the vote. So an impeachment vote could fail (or never happen) even with the vast majority of Democrats being on the right side on this issue, and blaming the entire party for that would just be playing into Trump's hands.

That said, I do blame Pelosi, because as Speaker she wields a great deal of influence. Rather than saying "we don't have the votes", she could and should be out there whipping the remaining fence-sitters and no votes into line, ensuring that next time impeachment goes to the floor (and it will, because the Judiciary Committee will almost certainly recommend it around Christmas, and if they don't, Rep. Green will try again), it commands majority support. She could be doing that. Instead, she and her allies are publicly undercutting her own Judiciary Committee, and giving the Regime's legal team ammunition to argue in court that its not really an impeachment, so they don't have to turn over evidence.

I don't think its that Pelosi doesn't comprehend the damage Trump is doing- she held her ground on the government shutdown over immigration, and she's said she wants him in jail. She's even said (as an argument against impeachment, predicated on the assumption that impeachment without conviction in the Senate will politically hurt the Democrats) that we need to make sure the election isn't close, because Trump might use that to refuse to accept the results.

I think, rather, that as someone who lived through the Clinton impeachment, and how it ultimately ended up increasing Clinton's popularity and hurting the Republicans, her thinking is completely dominated by that. I think she sees impeachment as leading to political disaster, and she's so afraid of losing that fight that its clouding her judgement, and her ability to recognize that this is not 1998. She's afraid of losing moderates if she impeaches, and doesn't realize that there's an equal or greater risk of losing progressives if she doesn't. She wants to keep the investigations going and use the dirt against Trump in the election, but never actually impeach, and leave it up to the voters to decide.

If her own base were neutral on impeachment, that might be a politically viable course (although still neglecting her Constitutional duty to impeach a criminal, despotic President). However, her base isn't neutral on impeachment. She's not going to be able to please both the progressive and moderate wings of her party on this. She's going to have to finally and decisively side one way or the other, very soon, and the split will be less damaging if she goes with the pro-impeachment side, because they command more support in the party. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to see that.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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