Robert Mugabe dead at 95

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Darth Yan
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1736
Joined: 2008-12-29 02:09pm
Location: Cali

Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by Darth Yan » 2019-09-06 03:27am

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/obit ... -dead.html

Honestly good riddance to bad rubbish

User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7043
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by ray245 » 2019-09-06 03:35am

Being successful as a revolutionary does not mean they make an effective leader in running a country in peacetime.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20729
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-09-06 04:10am

ray245 wrote:
2019-09-06 03:35am
Being successful as a revolutionary does not mean they make an effective leader in running a country in peacetime.
Yes. Also, while Mugabe is a traitor to socialism who degenerated to merely another cleptocrat quite fast, the colonial masters (who write these posthumous evaluations) can go screw themselves. „Ooh look at those primitives (we stole from them for centuries but look how barbaric they urrre, uuughgh white man buridan)“.

The real rubbish are the do-nothing descendants of the White Masters who were born into a life of wealth not lifting a finger, who are opulent by birthright from the global plunder of empire.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
Ziggy Stardust
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2006-09-10 10:16pm
Location: Research Triangle, NC

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by Ziggy Stardust » 2019-09-06 09:10am

Mugabe was never a true socialist anyway, though he adopted Marxist-Leninist rhetoric for a time; by all accounts he was never sincere about that ideology.

That said, for all of his faults as a power-obsessed Christian tinpot kleptocrat, he was an incredibly important figure in the development of African nationalism and anti-colonial/anti-imperialist thought. His perception in the West is actually a very interesting case study of the residual impacts of colonialism on Western thought. The West didn't turn against Mugabe until the late 1990s/early 2000s, when the economy of Zimbabwe crashed and he started forcibly repossessing land from white landowners. These were apparently seen as greater crimes than the literal genocide he committed in the 1980s, slaughtering at least 20,000 (black) civilians during the Gukurahundi (using, oddly enough, an army unit trained by North Korea).

As is often the case, his legacy is very complicated.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20729
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-09-06 09:59am

One can fight for a noble cause (decolonization) and yet be a violent power-hungry person. The historical process works with real people and not ideal or best people.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
Ziggy Stardust
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2006-09-10 10:16pm
Location: Research Triangle, NC

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by Ziggy Stardust » 2019-09-06 10:23am

I completely agree. He wasn't the force for decolonization that the world deserved, but he was the one we got. All of the horrible things he did are regrettable, AND also the completely predictable consequences of the way the colonial empires designed the power structures of their various territories.

User avatar
Darth Yan
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1736
Joined: 2008-12-29 02:09pm
Location: Cali

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by Darth Yan » 2019-09-06 11:14am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-09-06 04:10am
ray245 wrote:
2019-09-06 03:35am
Being successful as a revolutionary does not mean they make an effective leader in running a country in peacetime.
Yes. Also, while Mugabe is a traitor to socialism who degenerated to merely another cleptocrat quite fast, the colonial masters (who write these posthumous evaluations) can go screw themselves. „Ooh look at those primitives (we stole from them for centuries but look how barbaric they urrre, uuughgh white man buridan)“.

The real rubbish are the do-nothing descendants of the White Masters who were born into a life of wealth not lifting a finger, who are opulent by birthright from the global plunder of empire.
Socialism has good elements but pure unbridled socialism doesn’t work. Every Marxist Leninist country became a shit hole eventually.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Marxism.html

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20729
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-09-06 11:45am

It has given me enough and hasn’t left me indebted for life, so I‘m alright. Mileage may vary. I really have no fun right now to argue with Westerners about us, our lives and our past, anyway, likely to be futile. Suffice to say that Mugabe paid lip service to socialism, but did not effectively practice what he preached.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
EnterpriseSovereign
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2459
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm
Location: High orbit

Re: Robert Mugabe dead at 95

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2019-09-06 01:31pm

Glad the bastard is dead, he basically ruined his country.
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

"As you know science is not fact"- HuskerJay
"The Delta Fyler [sic] isn't even a shuttle craft" -HuskerJay69
"The Dominion War wasn't really all that bad"- Admiral Mercury

Post Reply