Canadian Conservative Party leader Andrew Scheer answers townhall question referencing "Pizzagate".

[The Romulan Republic]

Scheer replied to the question by agreeing with the questioner's attack on Trudeau giving money to the Clinton Foundation, and did not repudiate the Pizzagate lie, thereby appearing to tacitly condone/agree with it.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5038983/andr ... n-trudeau/

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has criticized Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer over his response to a man who invoked the “Pizzagate” conspiracy theory while asking a question at a town hall in Kitchener, Ont. on Thursday.

The man touched on the debunked Pizzagate theory over the course of a rambling two-minute question in which he criticized the Trudeau government’s decision to donate money to organizations like the Clinton Foundation.
Pizzagate is an unfounded conspiracy theory that claims Democrats in the U.S. harbour child sex slaves at a Washington, D.C., pizza restaurant. The rumour prompted a gunman to fire an assault weapon inside the restaurant in 2016.
READ MORE: DC pizza shop gunman regrets actions, still believes fake Hillary Clinton child sex ring story (Dec. 8, 2016)
“The Clinton Foundation is part of child trafficking and child sacrifice if you study it. It is in the Pizzagate,” the town hall attendee said to applause from the crowd. “How do we get that money back?”
Scheer responded by expressing concern about Trudeau using money from Canadian taxpayers towards “his own personal projects,” stating that the Clinton Foundation was just one of many examples of groups that received money from Trudeau’s government to promote “their own particular ideology.”
READ MORE: Andrew Scheer says he didn’t challenge ‘pizzagate’ comment because he didn’t hear it
Canada donated $20 million to the Clinton Health Access Initiative in 2017. The money is to go towards helping young women in Nigeria with family planning.
On Friday, Scheer said that he didn’t correct the man on his Pizzagate reference because he didn’t hear it.
“I heard the question was related to the government’s — Justin Trudeau’s — decision to give a grant to the Clinton Foundation. That is what I answered,” Scheer said Friday in Rosser, Man.
“I didn’t hear anything about the other aspect.”
WATCH: Andrew Scheer says he didn’t hear full question on ‘pizzagate’ conspiracy


Trudeau didn’t accept the explanation, however, saying that Scheer showed “that he simply doesn’t hear or doesn’t notice intolerant comments.”
“Someone made just a terrible comment about a bit of fake news — that is absolutely heinous in its substance — called Pizzagate,” Trudeau said during an armchair discussion at a Catholic teachers association meeting in Ottawa on Saturday.
“And [Scheer’s] response was, ‘Oh I didn’t hear that comment in the question.'”
Trudeau went on to attack Scheer for failing to acknowledge “some of the fringe elements” among the convoy of truckers who drove from Alberta to Parliament Hill in Ottawa to protest the lack of progress on pipeline projects.
“If there’s one thing we need to do as Canadians, [it is to] be vigilant about the intolerant and extremist voices coming from all sides and stay true to the values of respect and openness that have served us so well as a country,” Trudeau said.
READ MORE: Liberal MP says Tory senator must be removed after telling truckers to ‘roll over every Liberal’
Trudeau also took a jab at Scheer over the composition of his town halls, the prime minister appearing to suggest that Scheer only allowed supporters into the events.
“It would be nice if he let the actual public into these town halls, but that’s another thing,” Trudeau said.
WATCH: Trudeau says he regrets what led to Philpott, Wilson-Raybould departures


Scheer’s office countered Trudeau’s insinuation in a statement provided to Global News.
“Justin Trudeau is simply wrong. Mr. Scheer’s town hall events are completely open to the public. Nobody is refused entry at the door,” Scheer’s press secretary Daniel Schow said in an emailed statement.
He pointed out that the Kitchener town hall event was openly advertised to the public.
READ MORE: Conservative leader Andrew Scheer holding town hall in Kitchener on March 7
Schow added that Scheer “does not keep up to date on crazy conspiracies” and hadn’t even heard of the term “Pizzagate” prior to the controversy arising from the Kitchener town hall.
“Knowing now what it is, he obviously condemns the spreading of such dangerous misinformation.”
— With files from the Canadian Press

Yeah, I bet he didn't hear it. And the notion that he has never heard of Pizzagate is ludicrous. Either he is (as I suspect) lying through his teeth, or he is way too out of touch with current events and politics to be running for PM of a country.

Just in case you had any doubt left that Canadian Cons at this point were just Trumpism with a (slightly) more polite veneer.

[Solauren]

To be fair, I hadn't heard of Pizzagate either. I don't think many people have outside of the United States, unless they display the level of interest you do.

[Tribble]

It took me awhile to remember what it was as well, I initally thought they were referring to another Quebec language police thing. Then I realized I was confusing Pastagate for Pizzagate.

Not to excuse Sheer if he knew about it, but it would be helpful if the media stopped adding "gate" to every scandal.

[Solauren]

I had to google Pizzagate and Pastagate.

You know, the odds are, elected officials, who do have alot on their plate, ignore the conspiracy theory stuff.

This is just things being taken as the way someone wants.

I'm more concerned about the person that brought up the conspiracy in the first place. Canadian sheeple are beginning to buy into American conspiracy theories. That's more disturbing then a Sheer barely acknowledging the comment.

[Raw Shark]

I'm an American, and I had to Google pizzagate. Holy shit, that reads like an Onion article.

[The Romulan Republic]

I had to google Pizzagate and Pastagate.

You know, the odds are, elected officials, who do have alot on their plate, ignore the conspiracy theory stuff.

This is just things being taken as the way someone wants.

I'm more concerned about the person that brought up the conspiracy in the first place. Canadian sheeple are beginning to buy into American conspiracy theories. That's more disturbing then a Sheer barely acknowledging the comment.

I've been trying to get people to take the rise of the Alt. Reich in Canada seriously for a while now- but most Canadians not part of or sympathetic to it seem secure in their confidence that it can never happen here...

I have a horrible feeling that they're going to be in for a rude awakening this fall.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm an American, and I had to Google pizzagate. Holy shit, that reads like an Onion article.

This conspiracy is particularly notable in that it lead directly to an actual domestic terrorist attack (a guy went into the restaurant that is supposedly the front for Hillary's child sex ring, and opened fire, believing that he was attacking a pedophile ring).

[aerius]

I've been trying to get people to take the rise of the Alt. Reich in Canada seriously for a while now- but most Canadians not part of or sympathetic to it seem secure in their confidence that it can never happen here...

I have a horrible feeling that they're going to be in for a rude awakening this fall.

Most Canadians with a working brain know that the current Conservative party is the old Reform party, with extra spicy sauce. And they either don't care or they outright welcome it because they're a bunch of shitbags themselves.

I've made my peace, I've accepted that things will need to get a lot worse before they get better. You can't save people from their own stupidity, and if they want to vote for their own suffering, so be it. It's time folks learn that actions have consequences.

[Solauren]

Problem is, the people that really need to learn that actions have consequences will blame those consequences on OTHER PEOPLE.

i.e "Of course the PCs had to do that, but it's because the liberals...."

[The Romulan Republic]

Yup.

I saw a lot of this shit from Bernie or Bust types in 2016 to justify their deliberate sabotage of human civilization: "If Trump wins, then things we'll be so horrible that everyone will see how right we were, and we'll win next time!" I thought it was both callous and self-destructive and naïve then, and my opinion hasn't changed.

I've been trying to get people to take the rise of the Alt. Reich in Canada seriously for a while now- but most Canadians not part of or sympathetic to it seem secure in their confidence that it can never happen here...

I have a horrible feeling that they're going to be in for a rude awakening this fall.

Most Canadians with a working brain know that the current Conservative party is the old Reform party, with extra spicy sauce. And they either don't care or they outright welcome it because they're a bunch of shitbags themselves.

I've made my peace, I've accepted that things will need to get a lot worse before they get better. You can't save people from their own stupidity, and if they want to vote for their own suffering, so be it. It's time folks learn that actions have consequences.

I do not think it likely that fascism will eventually wear itself out if we sit back and accept its inevitability.

[Jub]

TRR nobody here is saying that fascism or any other regressive or even progressive system of oppression will go away, burn out, or otherwise cease just because they've proven themselves to do a poor job at running a nation. We're saying that centrist, slap a band-aid politics where the 'left' aren't pulling as hard as the right are a symptom of an utterly broken political system. A system which needs to break catastrophically before something better can replace it.

If a conservative government, one which none of us on this message board have enough money or political capital to stop, is elected in Canada this year because the Liberals like firing guns into their own feet, the best we can hope for is that they fuck up half as amazingly as Trump has so we can seriously look into fixing things.

[The Romulan Republic]

TRR nobody here is saying that fascism or any other regressive or even progressive system of oppression will go away, burn out, or otherwise cease just because they've proven themselves to do a poor job at running a nation. We're saying that centrist, slap a band-aid politics where the 'left' aren't pulling as hard as the right are a symptom of an utterly broken political system. A system which needs to break catastrophically before something better can replace it.

If a conservative government, one which none of us on this message board have enough money or political capital to stop, is elected in Canada this year because the Liberals like firing guns into their own feet, the best we can hope for is that they fuck up half as amazingly as Trump has so we can seriously look into fixing things.

You can't single handedly stop it, but that does not absolve you of the responsibility to get out there and work to oppose them. One person may not change much alone, but if everyone says "I can't do anything"... well, then that has an effect.

These are not empty words on my part- I have volunteered with and donated money to both the BC Green Party and to Democrats Abroad for the US, and I will probably volunteer for the NDP this fall. I am tired of people pointing and laughing while the world burns, and then patting themselves on the back for how much smarter their cynicism makes them than the people who try to make a difference.

[Jub]

You can't single handedly stop it, but that does not absolve you of the responsibility to get out there and work to oppose them. One person may not change much alone, but if everyone says "I can't do anything"... well, then that has an effect.

These are not empty words on my part- I have volunteered with and donated money to both the BC Green Party and to Democrats Abroad for the US, and I will probably volunteer for the NDP this fall. I am tired of people pointing and laughing while the world burns, and then patting themselves on the back for how much smarter their cynicism makes them than the people who try to make a difference.

The Greens, really? A joke party that barely even gets a seat at the table and the NDP, which have zero chance at the federal level, and who haven't exactly been a breath of fresh air at the provincial level either. Yeah, I'll mock you if that's where you're placing your efforts. If you want to make a difference push for an actual change that matters, push for a different system, one where politicians aren't perversely incentivized to be horrible assholes who only care about grabbing and keeping power.

The current system is broken and working to keep centrists in power is part of the issue.

[The Romulan Republic]

You can't single handedly stop it, but that does not absolve you of the responsibility to get out there and work to oppose them. One person may not change much alone, but if everyone says "I can't do anything"... well, then that has an effect.

These are not empty words on my part- I have volunteered with and donated money to both the BC Green Party and to Democrats Abroad for the US, and I will probably volunteer for the NDP this fall. I am tired of people pointing and laughing while the world burns, and then patting themselves on the back for how much smarter their cynicism makes them than the people who try to make a difference.

The Greens, really? A joke party that barely even gets a seat at the table and the NDP, which have zero chance at the federal level, and who haven't exactly been a breath of fresh air at the provincial level either.

They hold three seats and, due to the nature of the parliamentary system, hold the balance of power and could topple the provincial government if the NDP didn't make concessions to them.

I supported them more than anything because they were backing Basic Income, and I consider that an absolutely essential measure to prevent the collapse of society and the rise of extremism and totalitarianism over the next few decades as automation destroys more and more traditional jobs. I probably won't back them this time around, because I feel that they are drifting towards Right-wing populism and in particular because I am distinctly unimpressed by what I feel is them scapegoating foreigners for the housing crisis. But at the time, the choice made sense, and the result of the last provincial election was not entirely without positive consequences.

Yeah, I'll mock you if that's where you're placing your efforts.

At least I'm doing something. Whereas you, apparently, just sit their and point and laugh and tell yourself that makes you smarter and better than me.

If you want to make a difference push for an actual change that matters, push for a different system, one where politicians aren't perversely incentivized to be horrible assholes who only care about grabbing and keeping power.

The current system is broken and working to keep centrists in power is part of the issue.

Meaning what, exactly? I do support radical changes to our system, as I think you know perfectly well. Does it not count because I'm not extreme enough, because I'm not champing at the bit to destroy society wholesale and kill everyone who disagrees with me? Or are you just randomly taking the piss because you have no real argument?

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm going to say this to everyone who just sits back and accepts what's happening, or thinks that it is a waste of time to try to do something about it.

You don't like the way the world is? Get off your fucking asses and do something about it. And don't just cast a vote- volunteer. Campaign. Donate. Run for office yourself, even. I did. I lost, and it was still one of the most productive and rewarding experiences of my life. Even if all you can spare is ten bucks or an hour of your time, it adds up. Sure, you won't single-handedly solve all the worlds' problems, but Neil Armstrong didn't go to the Moon alone either. All great human endeavors are built on the combination of thousands of smaller individual contributions? Your contribution does not cease to matter because it is only a small part of the solution.

Maybe you think that its too hard, too much effort. Then compare your situation to that of reformers in past eras, who didn't have luxuries like "voting" or "free speech rights" or "mass communications", who had to work harder than 90% of people in a first world country today ever will just to survive, and still found the wherewithal to fight to make their world a better place.

Maybe you think that it doesn't matter, that nothing will ever change. Well, then you clearly haven't read a page of history, because things have changed. Two hundred years ago, it was legal to own black people. 100 years ago, women couldn't vote. Ten or twenty years ago, gay people couldn't get married. Maybe you think that those changes don't matter, because they don't affect (directly and obviously) the issues that YOU care about. Well, in that case you clearly lack empathy towards the suffering of people different from yourself, but here are some other examples: mass vaccination. The death of Smallpox. The internet, which has utterly revolutionized human communications (in ways both good and bad). The world changes. Actions do matter. The world can be better. And choosing inaction when you can see the consequences makes you morally culpable in the outcome.

[Jub]

They hold three seats and, due to the nature of the parliamentary system, hold the balance of power and could topple the provincial government if the NDP didn't make concessions to them.

I theory they could, in practice they would destroy themselves for doing so. Nobody within the system our outside of it would stand for a three-seat group of nobodies toppling an actual player. Plus, as much as I enjoy anything that pisses off politicians, doing so wouldn't accomplish anything.

I supported them more than anything because they were backing Basic Income

Yeah, and they've accomplished jack and nothing on that front and will continue to accomplish that much until the party folds or another major party collapses and the Greens fill the void. I don't count that last option as much of a possibility within the foreseeable future.

the result of the last provincial election was not entirely without positive consequences.

Name a few then? I voted NDP myself but only because the choice was between them and more of the same from the BC Liberals. In BC it's a six-of-one situation where nobody is happy with either side.

At least I'm doing something. Whereas you, apparently, just sit their and point and laugh and tell yourself that makes you smarter and better than me.

Doing nothing is doing more than you are. You're actively participating in a system that you know to be corrupt and which produces facists. That puts you a lot closer to being a Nazi than it does me.

Meaning what, exactly? I do support radical changes to our system, as I think you know perfectly well. Does it not count because I'm not extreme enough, because I'm not champing at the bit to destroy society wholesale and kill everyone who disagrees with me? Or are you just randomly taking the piss because you have no real argument?

You want more of the same but run better, that's not extreme. You keep working for the status quo, this time with less corruption, while failing to notice the systemic causes of the very issues you rage against. Your activities hurt more than they help.

You don't like the way the world is? Get off your fucking asses and do something about it. And don't just cast a vote- volunteer. Campaign. Donate. Run for office yourself, even. I did. I lost, and it was still one of the most productive and rewarding experiences of my life. Even if all you can spare is ten bucks or an hour of your time, it adds up. Sure, you won't single-handedly solve all the worlds' problems, but Neil Armstrong didn't go to the Moon alone either. All great human endeavors are built on the combination of thousands of smaller individual contributions? Your contribution does not cease to matter because it is only a small part of the solution.

I strongly disagree. I think that any peaceful involvement with the current system is serving to cause harm and refuse to participate on moral grounds. The current system breeds extremism and conservatism, favours the rich and the connected, and cannot be changed significantly from within itself because no politician can be trusted to vote against their own self-interest. I'd be more interested in tearing down the current system and seeing many of those within it tried for various financial crimes but that's unrealistic.

I don't have the resources or charisma to start a group interested in real change and no group, that I'm aware of, wants the same things I want. So I'll sit, not because it's what I want to do, but because any other action is too objectionable to fathom.

[The Romulan Republic]

So that's it, huh? I'm like a Nazi because I believe in democracy rather than mass murder as the optimal means of reform? Hate to break it to you, but that's kind of the opposite of Nazis.

But go on. Do nothing. Just point and laugh while the world burns, and give yourself a pat on the back for how it makes you so much smarter and better than me.

Beneath fascism, there is a deeper sickness in our society- the sickness of millions of people in the most privileged society in the history of the world who sit and do nothing while they whine about how everything sucks, who think that the highest wisdom is nihilistic cynicism, that the highest wit is to point and laugh at the misery of others, who think that actions don't count unless they are destructive. That is the enemy. Without you, the fascists would never have gotten this far.

[aerius]

Yeah, I'll mock you if that's where you're placing your efforts.

At least I'm doing something. Whereas you, apparently, just sit their and point and laugh and tell yourself that makes you smarter and better than me.

What if I told you that joining the Conservative party and making your voice heard would do more good than putting all your efforts into a radical left wing party?

I'm a member of both the Conservative and Liberal parties, and over the past dozen years or so I've had many meetings with representatives from both sides on everything from the local to federal level, both as a private citizen and as part of various business, environmental, recreation, and other interest groups. We've actually secured protection for various forests & wildlife areas and obtained a shitload of funding for conservation efforts, and a lot of this was in areas where the MP or MPP was a Conservative. We've helped save or create jobs for small businesses, beautified slummy neighbourhoods, and a bunch of other small but significant things through our work with the government, even if they're Conservative.

Which means we have relationships with the local reps from all levels of government. I've had meetings which were along the lines of "you're cool, but your bosses are a bunch of tards who are going to fuck over everything we've worked for. Can you tell your party to get a fucking clue?" And then a year later, word will sometimes get back that no one's ever told them that before. And that's a huge problem since the leadership becomes an echo chamber and moves towards radicalization when there's no dissenting opinions from within the party. And that's exactly what's happening, there's no internal brake in the Conservative party to keep it from going full Trump.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I'll mock you if that's where you're placing your efforts.

At least I'm doing something. Whereas you, apparently, just sit their and point and laugh and tell yourself that makes you smarter and better than me.

What if I told you that joining the Conservative party and making your voice heard would do more good than putting all your efforts into a radical left wing party?

I'm a member of both the Conservative and Liberal parties, and over the past dozen years or so I've had many meetings with representatives from both sides on everything from the local to federal level, both as a private citizen and as part of various business, environmental, recreation, and other interest groups. We've actually secured protection for various forests & wildlife areas and obtained a shitload of funding for conservation efforts, and a lot of this was in areas where the MP or MPP was a Conservative. We've helped save or create jobs for small businesses, beautified slummy neighbourhoods, and a bunch of other small but significant things through our work with the government, even if they're Conservative.

Which means we have relationships with the local reps from all levels of government. I've had meetings which were along the lines of "you're cool, but your bosses are a bunch of tards who are going to fuck over everything we've worked for. Can you tell your party to get a fucking clue?" And then a year later, word will sometimes get back that no one's ever told them that before. And that's a huge problem since the leadership becomes an echo chamber and moves towards radicalization when there's no dissenting opinions from within the party. And that's exactly what's happening, there's no internal brake in the Conservative party to keep it from going full Trump.

You know, I disagree with most of what you say on this board, but I do appreciate that you are actually trying to make a constructive contribution to the conversation here.

Theoretically, there's some merit to your argument, but I can't help but feel like that ship has sailed. That the time to try to steer the Cons down a different path was five to ten years ago, and that at this point they've pretty much made their sympathies as a party clear. I'd like to be wrong about that, but I don't think I am. And the Liberals seem to be trying to commit political suicide as quickly as possible. Which leaves me backing the NDP by default (in any case, based on past races, my riding is either going Green or more likely NDP, so its basically a case of picking which of those two I prefer, as far as my MP is concerned).

I don't doubt that there are reasonable people in the Conservative Party though, who are staying on due to connections or familiarity or party loyalty and don't realize yet the road things are going down. There were Republicans like that in 2016 (some of whom jumped ship when Trump got the nomination). Just as I don't doubt there are intelligent Liberals who know better than the parade of idiocy that is their party leadership right now. I wish sometimes that we could get all the decent people from every party together in a broad anti-extremism/anti-authoritarianism coalition party. But that's probably a pipe dream right now. Not enough people have grasped the magnitude of the threat yet.

At this point I'm pretty much just hoping that the "People's Party" splits the Alt. Reich vote. It would be nice if third party vote splitting worked for the Left rather than against us, for a change.

[Jub]

So that's it, huh? I'm like a Nazi because I believe in democracy rather than mass murder as the optimal means of reform? Hate to break it to you, but that's kind of the opposite of Nazis.

But go on. Do nothing. Just point and laugh while the world burns, and give yourself a pat on the back for how it makes you so much smarter and better than me.

Beneath fascism, there is a deeper sickness in our society- the sickness of millions of people in the most privileged society in the history of the world who sit and do nothing while they whine about how everything sucks, who think that the highest wisdom is nihilistic cynicism, that the highest wit is to point and laugh at the misery of others, who think that actions don't count unless they are destructive. That is the enemy. Without you, the fascists would never have gotten this far.

The world's already burning if you hadn't noticed. You're continuing to deal with the system that's been tossing the matches around while lamenting the fact that people like myself wouldn't mind starting a few back-burns because the other option is manning a bucket line while the political elite toss more matches everywhere. You think that there is some acceptable number of fires but no number of acceptable loses. You want more status quo but this time with your party getting control of the matchbook!

I figure we're all fucked to some degree or another anyway and figure that something drastic is worth a shot. There aren't enough people that think like me just yet, so I'll wait. I'll vote strategically as a harm reduction method, and keep doing what I can to promote my values among those close to me. If there's a chance to participate in a real change I'll take it otherwise I'll stay away from a system that I hold no love for.

[aerius]

Theoretically, there's some merit to your argument, but I can't help but feel like that ship has sailed. That the time to try to steer the Cons down a different path was five to ten years ago, and that at this point they've pretty much made their sympathies as a party clear. I'd like to be wrong about that, but I don't think I am. And the Liberals seem to be trying to commit political suicide as quickly as possible. Which leaves me backing the NDP by default (in any case, based on past races, my riding is either going Green or more likely NDP, so its basically a case of picking which of those two I prefer, as far as my MP is concerned).

As soon as the Reform Party merged with the PC it was game over, any change you wanted to make to the PC had to be done well before that. As for the Liberal party, like Obama, they were handed a golden opportunity for getting shit fixed and reforming the system, but they fucking blew it and shot themselves in the legs so many times that they're bleeding to death. Let's just say my displeasure with party leadership has been made heard through my local rep.

It's a goddamn mess that's gonna get a lot worse before enough folks either smarten up or get pissed enough to actually fix it. I probably won't live long enough to see the other side, the big picture ain't gonna change no matter you or I do. The best I can do is work with the contacts I have to maybe make things suck a little bit less in my tiny part of the country.