SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-05-28 05:19am

loomer wrote:
2020-05-28 01:40am
I'm not sure they can expect meaningful mid-to-long term reform from voting third party since they don't do preferential voting and their system has been very effectively massaged to crush third parties into dust, but otherwise I take your point and agree.
Well if you watch some YT videos from some progressives, eg Kyle Kulinsky show, the idea is Progressives threaten to vote third party unless you at least advocate for one of our policies, eg ending the wars, medicare for all, a Green new deal etc. The GOP are unlikely to move this way, maybe the Democrats might if it means the difference between winning and losing. Only time will tell if this works as a strategy.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Soontir C'boath » 2020-05-28 02:29pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-05-28 05:19am
The GOP are unlikely to move this way, maybe the Democrats might if it means the difference between winning and losing. Only time will tell if this works as a strategy.
GOP will GOP. However, people feel Democrats are not acting as the opposition force that they should be. Defense bills continue to be passed. The stimulus bills which overwhelmingly helped corporations were passed by voice vote giving huge concessions to Trump. If Congress was intentionally built to make it hard for things to pass as we've seen in the Obama years, we're not seeing that now even though Democrats holds the majority in the House.

People are tired of it. They want new people in office and for a lot of them, Bernie's not enough either.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-05-28 11:57pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-05-28 05:19am
loomer wrote:
2020-05-28 01:40am
I'm not sure they can expect meaningful mid-to-long term reform from voting third party since they don't do preferential voting and their system has been very effectively massaged to crush third parties into dust, but otherwise I take your point and agree.
Well if you watch some YT videos from some progressives, eg Kyle Kulinsky show, the idea is Progressives threaten to vote third party unless you at least advocate for one of our policies, eg ending the wars, medicare for all, a Green new deal etc. The GOP are unlikely to move this way, maybe the Democrats might if it means the difference between winning and losing. Only time will tell if this works as a strategy.
It won't.

Parties listen to the people who actually show up. Both parties listen to Boomers because they show up. The Tea Party got to take over the Republican Party because, when push came to shove, they showed up. The black vote, specifically the older black vote, pretty much gets to pick the Democratic nominee now because they show up. Progressives and youth, all too often, don't show up. And that's why we're lower on the priorities list.

If Biden makes a bunch of moves to the Left, and then the Bernie or Busters walk out because they think its not good enough, the message the Democratic Party will take from that is not "we should have nominated a progressive". Its "progressives are unreliable voters who aren't worth courting". Not that it will matter, because at that point we'll either be in a civil war, or under President for Life Trump's dictatorship.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-05-31 11:09pm

The current riots starting in Minneapolis may have damaged Amy Klobuchar's shot at being the VP nod, along with Kamala Harris:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... nking.html
Joe Biden has let it be known that he’s in no rush to choose a running mate, despite the endless veep speculation swirling around him. This week he publicly said he hoped to announce his decision by August 1. That’s less than three weeks before the opening date of the Democratic National Convention on August 17 (which will likely be virtual), indicating a fairly conventional timetable.

And so, as my colleague Gabriel Debenedetti recently explained, Biden has been willing to hold what amounts to an “open audition” for the vice-president gig, not doing much to help people guess which way he is leaning:

Ever since the formal process actually began last month, Biden himself has been uncharacteristically tight-lipped about his preferences, and absent in-person campaign events to showcase his chemistry with the contenders, that’s left even some of the people closest to him parsing his every statement about possible choices.

Yes, word will eventually leak out about who is and is not formally being vetted, but it’s early enough in the process for Biden to change his mind a time or two.

His freedom of action, however, is being circumscribed by events beyond his control. One prominent prospect, Nevada senator Catherine Cortez Masto, has taken herself out of the running. Another, New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, may have damaged her suitability significantly by a jewelry purchase that arguably violated her own stay-at-home order. Cortez Masto and Grisham were the two most frequently mentioned Latinas under discussion as potential Biden running mates.

Now the sudden upsurge of protests over police killings, sparked by George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis, is threatening to knock Amy Klobuchar out of contention, as the New York Times reports:

Senator Amy Klobuchar swept into office in 2007 as a former tough prosecutor, boasting of how she had reduced crime in the biggest county in Minnesota. But as protests over George Floyd’s death in police custody bring chaos and violence to Minneapolis, her seven-year record as prosecutor there is facing renewed scrutiny as she prepares to be vetted as a leading vice-presidential contender.

With a police force in Minneapolis that has long faced accusations of racism and complaints of abuse, Ms. Klobuchar declined to bring charges against multiple police officers who were involved in shootings during her seven-year tenure.

This fresh airing of an old controversy adds to earlier concerns about Klobuchar’s successful murder prosecution of a black teenager as Hennepin County District Attorney in 2002. The choice of Klobuchar was already going to be controversial among African-Americans who want Biden to choose a black running-mate and progressives who are looking for a gesture in their direction. The new focus on racial justice in Minneapolis might sound a death knell for her veep prospects.

Indeed, there is some talk already that current racial tensions over police shootings and the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 on African-Americans and Latinos could ratchet up the pressure on Biden to choose a woman of color for vice-president. Complicating the calculus is the fact that two of the most prominent African-American names in the hopper, Kamala Harris and Val Demings (who penned an op-ed condemning the police misconduct in Minneapolis), both have law enforcement backgrounds. Harris’s shaky record on criminal-justice issues as a prosecutor and attorney general in California became an area of scrutiny during her presidential campaign, and such concerns won’t go away in the current climate.

You could look at these developments and conclude that real life is helping Biden whittle down his veep list. But it might be happening a bit too fast.
Without passing any judgement on Klobuchar's record, with which I have only a passing familiarity, I think its clear that picking a white moderate former prosecutor from Minnesota right now would be, at best, spectacularly tone-deaf.

More and more, I do keep coming back to Stacey Abrams as the name that makes the most sense. This article makes a better case than I:

https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/stacey-ab ... ning-mate/
Only a few times in US history has the choice of a vice presidential candidate made much difference in who wins the White House.

This is one of those times.

If Joe Biden is to defeat Donald Trump, the two groups of people most essential to the Democratic coalition – African Americans and white suburban women – must turn out in maximum numbers on Election Day. The running mate who can best help him do that is Stacey Abrams.

Trump is sitting on a mountain of cash and has at his disposal a very sophisticated digital operation ready to make sure that every potential Trump voter makes it to the polls on November 3. He is also set to unleash a campaign of personal attacks on Biden aimed at discouraging potential Democratic voters.

Hillary Clinton’s defeat in 2016 was due largely to her failure to get left-leaning white Democrats and young African Americans to warm to her.

Conventional wisdom credited Trump’s crucial upset wins in a trio of traditionally Democratic states – Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin – to the defection of white working class voters. But the real story was that many apathetic or disgruntled Democrats either didn’t vote or else cast protest ballots for candidates from the Libertarian, Green and other minor parties.

The outcome in those three states was very close; Clinton lost them by less than 78,000 total. Meanwhile, protest candidates got nearly 734,000 votes.

“Election outcomes in key states like Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida and Arizona,” political analyst Rachel Bitecofer wrote in a recent New York Times op-ed, “all come down to the same thing: the percentage of Democrats and left-leaning independents that end up casting ballots compared with the percentage of Republicans and right-leaning independents that do so.”

Abrams, 46, minority leader in the Georgia state House of Representatives for seven years, in 2018 came within a hair’s breadth of being elected the first African American woman governor in the United States.

She is a charismatic, exciting personality with a track record of persuading black voters to register and to turn out. Black turnout in the 2018 Georgia governor’s race grew by 40 percent over four years previously.

Abrams also in that race got considerable support from college educated white women, who gave her 43 percent of their votes. That is a group that has swung sharply against Trump since 2016, so it is crucial that Biden get as many as possible to the polls.

Biden has pledged to name a woman as his running mate, and his list includes three female US senators who competed against him for the Democratic nomination: Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris.

While Klobuchar’s experience in Washington gives her credibility as someone well qualified to be president if need be, it’s doubtful that she could bring any additional votes to the table. A moderate like Biden, her appeal is to the same constituency as his.

Her presidential campaign got almost no support from black voters. In fact, Klobuchar has had a tenuous relationship with African Americans since her days as prosecutor in her home town of Minneapolis, Minnesota. Her critics argued that she was overly harsh to blacks and other racial minorities, and did little to curb police excesses. The violent protests that broke out last week in Minneapolis over the death of a black man in police custody may have fatally damaged Klobuchar’s chances for the vice presidency.

Warren, with her advocacy of taking power away from big corporations and the rich while giving it to working people, could excite progressives, a group Biden has had difficulty winning over. But she rarely got as much as 10 percent of the black vote in the Democratic primaries earlier this year.

Biden, on the other hand, owes his nomination to African Americans. His campaign was on the ropes after poor finishes in the first three Democratic contests in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. It was revived when black voters in South Carolina and throughout the South overwhelmingly sided with him. He needs to acknowledge that debt by choosing a black woman as his vice president.

Zerlina Maxwell, who worked on Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign staff, told the Associated Press that this is an opportunity for Biden to recognize the political force of black women. “Black women are the foundation of a successful Democratic Party at every level,” she said.

The present racial unrest that has spread from Minneapolis to other U.S. cities has only increased the pressure on Biden from activists and party leaders to choose an African American running mate.

Of the black women on Biden’s list of vice presidential choices, most of the media buzz has gone to Harris. Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart calls her “a fighter.” He wrote, “Harris would not be rattled by the inevitable bullying by Trump and his campaign. She is neither afraid of a fight nor afraid of him.”

But her presidential bid failed to connect with voters in any significant way. Although Harris made black women her special focus, she did little better among black voters than Warren did. Her candidacy ultimately failed because she was unsure of who she wanted to be – a progressive or a centrist. Her multiple changes of direction don’t lend confidence to the idea that she would make a good president.

Another potential black female vice presidential choice being talked about is Florida US Representative Val Demings. A former Orlando police chief, she acquitted herself well as one of the House-appointed impeachment managers in Trump’s trial before the US Senate.

But Demings has never run even a statewide race. She won her House seat in 2016 after a court-ordered redistricting made the Florida 10th District significantly more Democratic.

Abrams, by comparison, came within two percentage points of being elected governor of Georgia against fierce Republican opposition. She now heads Fair Fight, a national organization she started to oppose Republicans’ efforts at voter suppression.

And she has a big following among young voters, who have been decidedly cool toward Biden. In Georgia in 2018, Abrams won the 18-to-29 year old vote by nearly 30 points. Barack Obama in 2008 had lost that group by three points. (There was no exit polling in Georgia in 2012.)

Abrams would be by far Biden’s best choice to help him win the crucial swing states of North Carolina and Florida, with their large black voting populations, and even to put Georgia into play. Neither Harris nor Warren nor Klobuchar would offer comparable advantages.

Her biggest liability is her lack of national government experience, something Republicans will be sure to highlight if Abrams is the vice presidential nominee. But she served at a high level in the government of a large and important state, winning praise for her charm and her intellect.

She is a graduate of Yale University Law School and is a New York Times bestselling author for her memoir, “Lead From the Outside.” She has also written eight romance novels under the pen name Selena Montgomery.

She even has Republican admirers. Former Georgia Governor Nathan Deal, quoted in a profile in the Washington Post, credited her for working with him to save Georgia’s HOPE Scholarship for low income youths in the midst of the 2008-2009 recession.

“We did not always agree on all the issues that we were confronted with,” Deal told the Washington Post, “but on that one, which was a significant one, I thought she demonstrated the kind of leadership that you hope people would do regardless of party labels.”

The Post profile described her this way: “She is scholarly, but she can also wax poetic on football. She is a policy wonk, but she can effortlessly pivot to sending goofy memes to the children of good buddies. She is a pop culture junkie who also is very literate on the sway and potential of technology. She is secure in her identity as a black woman, but also sees herself as appealing broadly to people of all colors and identities.”

Henry Eichel follows US politics from Lexington, South Carolina.

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I will add one other major point in her favor: she was endorsed in the primary of the Georgia gubernatorial race by Bernie Sanders and Our Revolution, which shows that she is, if not as far left as Bernie or AOC, at least someone who has a history of compatibility with Bernie Sanders and his movement. At the same time, she has worked with Clinton-aligned Centrists as well, so while that will no doubt be used by some as proof that she's not a true progressive, it does show that she's someone who has appeal across the party base.
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"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-01 12:04am

Klobuchar is poison right now not just because she's a prosecutor from Minnesota, but because she dragged her heels pretty damn hard on making a statement calling for justice. If she'd acted faster she might have limited the damage of her background but her inaction more or less nipped any hope of that in the bud.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-01 12:53am

loomer wrote:
2020-06-01 12:04am
Klobuchar is poison right now not just because she's a prosecutor from Minnesota, but because she dragged her heels pretty damn hard on making a statement calling for justice. If she'd acted faster she might have limited the damage of her background but her inaction more or less nipped any hope of that in the bud.
Didn't know that, but in that case, she shouldn't even be under consideration at this point.

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Stacey Abrams, or more generally the idea that Biden should pick a black woman for his ticket?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-01 04:03am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-01 12:53am
loomer wrote:
2020-06-01 12:04am
Klobuchar is poison right now not just because she's a prosecutor from Minnesota, but because she dragged her heels pretty damn hard on making a statement calling for justice. If she'd acted faster she might have limited the damage of her background but her inaction more or less nipped any hope of that in the bud.
Didn't know that, but in that case, she shouldn't even be under consideration at this point.

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Stacey Abrams, or more generally the idea that Biden should pick a black woman for his ticket?
It wouldn't hurt to pick a Black woman for VP, but the fundamental issue is one of credibility. No matter who he chooses, Biden is going to look like he's trying to patch up a weakspot (which, well, he is.) in his appeal and base. Abrams is still too new for me to have much of a gauge on her positions in deed versus word, but her record on corporate accountability isn't particularly good, which dovetails with the broader issue. A poor pick that can be scoffed at on identity grounds - whether it's actually poor or not, which is a whole other issue since the politician with more appeal might be a worse pick than the one with zero charm - will be perceived as pandering and as such probably won't help with winning over undecided voters. So it depends - how big an issue is HB-192 to a now massively unemployed voting base? Has Abrams come out with a more radical position on criminal justice than her somewhat lukewarm reform proposals?

ED: To be clear, the credibility issue is Biden, rather than an automatic issue with whoever he picks. He's a poison apple.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-01 04:17am

Anyone Biden picks is going to lose some credibility with the more uncompromising elements of the Left simply on account of having been picked by Biden, and having accepted, yes. Though I will give Biden credit for having made real shifts Leftward on policy and a serious effort to reach out to progressives, even if its not as far and as fast as I would like.

My feeling is that Abrams is probably the best realistic option of all the major names thrown out so far. Both because of the symbolic significance and representation of putting a black woman on the ticket (and making her the default choice to be the Democratic nominee in 2024 or 2028), and because she has broad appeal across the party, while also being relatively progressive (Warren would be better on progressive policy, probably, but not on representation, and I'm not sure she'd have as broad an appeal either).

My dream pick for both the Vice Presidency and Presidency would be Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, but she's sadly not legally eligible yet. Nor would Biden be remotely likely to pick her if she were.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan » 2020-06-01 04:24am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-05-31 11:09pm
The current riots starting in Minneapolis may have damaged Amy Klobuchar's shot at being the VP nod, along with Kamala Harris:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05 ... nking.html
Joe Biden has let it be known that he’s in no rush to choose a running mate, despite the endless veep speculation swirling around him. This week he publicly said he hoped to announce his decision by August 1. That’s less than three weeks before the opening date of the Democratic National Convention on August 17 (which will likely be virtual), indicating a fairly conventional timetable.

And so, as my colleague Gabriel Debenedetti recently explained, Biden has been willing to hold what amounts to an “open audition” for the vice-president gig, not doing much to help people guess which way he is leaning:

Ever since the formal process actually began last month, Biden himself has been uncharacteristically tight-lipped about his preferences, and absent in-person campaign events to showcase his chemistry with the contenders, that’s left even some of the people closest to him parsing his every statement about possible choices.

Yes, word will eventually leak out about who is and is not formally being vetted, but it’s early enough in the process for Biden to change his mind a time or two.

His freedom of action, however, is being circumscribed by events beyond his control. One prominent prospect, Nevada senator Catherine Cortez Masto, has taken herself out of the running. Another, New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, may have damaged her suitability significantly by a jewelry purchase that arguably violated her own stay-at-home order. Cortez Masto and Grisham were the two most frequently mentioned Latinas under discussion as potential Biden running mates.

Now the sudden upsurge of protests over police killings, sparked by George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis, is threatening to knock Amy Klobuchar out of contention, as the New York Times reports:

Senator Amy Klobuchar swept into office in 2007 as a former tough prosecutor, boasting of how she had reduced crime in the biggest county in Minnesota. But as protests over George Floyd’s death in police custody bring chaos and violence to Minneapolis, her seven-year record as prosecutor there is facing renewed scrutiny as she prepares to be vetted as a leading vice-presidential contender.

With a police force in Minneapolis that has long faced accusations of racism and complaints of abuse, Ms. Klobuchar declined to bring charges against multiple police officers who were involved in shootings during her seven-year tenure.

This fresh airing of an old controversy adds to earlier concerns about Klobuchar’s successful murder prosecution of a black teenager as Hennepin County District Attorney in 2002. The choice of Klobuchar was already going to be controversial among African-Americans who want Biden to choose a black running-mate and progressives who are looking for a gesture in their direction. The new focus on racial justice in Minneapolis might sound a death knell for her veep prospects.

Indeed, there is some talk already that current racial tensions over police shootings and the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 on African-Americans and Latinos could ratchet up the pressure on Biden to choose a woman of color for vice-president. Complicating the calculus is the fact that two of the most prominent African-American names in the hopper, Kamala Harris and Val Demings (who penned an op-ed condemning the police misconduct in Minneapolis), both have law enforcement backgrounds. Harris’s shaky record on criminal-justice issues as a prosecutor and attorney general in California became an area of scrutiny during her presidential campaign, and such concerns won’t go away in the current climate.

You could look at these developments and conclude that real life is helping Biden whittle down his veep list. But it might be happening a bit too fast.
Without passing any judgement on Klobuchar's record, with which I have only a passing familiarity, I think its clear that picking a white moderate former prosecutor from Minnesota right now would be, at best, spectacularly tone-deaf.

More and more, I do keep coming back to Stacey Abrams as the name that makes the most sense. This article makes a better case than I:

https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/stacey-ab ... ning-mate/
Only a few times in US history has the choice of a vice presidential candidate made much difference in who wins the White House.

This is one of those times.

If Joe Biden is to defeat Donald Trump, the two groups of people most essential to the Democratic coalition – African Americans and white suburban women – must turn out in maximum numbers on Election Day. The running mate who can best help him do that is Stacey Abrams.

Trump is sitting on a mountain of cash and has at his disposal a very sophisticated digital operation ready to make sure that every potential Trump voter makes it to the polls on November 3. He is also set to unleash a campaign of personal attacks on Biden aimed at discouraging potential Democratic voters.

Hillary Clinton’s defeat in 2016 was due largely to her failure to get left-leaning white Democrats and young African Americans to warm to her.

Conventional wisdom credited Trump’s crucial upset wins in a trio of traditionally Democratic states – Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin – to the defection of white working class voters. But the real story was that many apathetic or disgruntled Democrats either didn’t vote or else cast protest ballots for candidates from the Libertarian, Green and other minor parties.

The outcome in those three states was very close; Clinton lost them by less than 78,000 total. Meanwhile, protest candidates got nearly 734,000 votes.

“Election outcomes in key states like Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida and Arizona,” political analyst Rachel Bitecofer wrote in a recent New York Times op-ed, “all come down to the same thing: the percentage of Democrats and left-leaning independents that end up casting ballots compared with the percentage of Republicans and right-leaning independents that do so.”

Abrams, 46, minority leader in the Georgia state House of Representatives for seven years, in 2018 came within a hair’s breadth of being elected the first African American woman governor in the United States.

She is a charismatic, exciting personality with a track record of persuading black voters to register and to turn out. Black turnout in the 2018 Georgia governor’s race grew by 40 percent over four years previously.

Abrams also in that race got considerable support from college educated white women, who gave her 43 percent of their votes. That is a group that has swung sharply against Trump since 2016, so it is crucial that Biden get as many as possible to the polls.

Biden has pledged to name a woman as his running mate, and his list includes three female US senators who competed against him for the Democratic nomination: Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris.

While Klobuchar’s experience in Washington gives her credibility as someone well qualified to be president if need be, it’s doubtful that she could bring any additional votes to the table. A moderate like Biden, her appeal is to the same constituency as his.

Her presidential campaign got almost no support from black voters. In fact, Klobuchar has had a tenuous relationship with African Americans since her days as prosecutor in her home town of Minneapolis, Minnesota. Her critics argued that she was overly harsh to blacks and other racial minorities, and did little to curb police excesses. The violent protests that broke out last week in Minneapolis over the death of a black man in police custody may have fatally damaged Klobuchar’s chances for the vice presidency.

Warren, with her advocacy of taking power away from big corporations and the rich while giving it to working people, could excite progressives, a group Biden has had difficulty winning over. But she rarely got as much as 10 percent of the black vote in the Democratic primaries earlier this year.

Biden, on the other hand, owes his nomination to African Americans. His campaign was on the ropes after poor finishes in the first three Democratic contests in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. It was revived when black voters in South Carolina and throughout the South overwhelmingly sided with him. He needs to acknowledge that debt by choosing a black woman as his vice president.

Zerlina Maxwell, who worked on Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign staff, told the Associated Press that this is an opportunity for Biden to recognize the political force of black women. “Black women are the foundation of a successful Democratic Party at every level,” she said.

The present racial unrest that has spread from Minneapolis to other U.S. cities has only increased the pressure on Biden from activists and party leaders to choose an African American running mate.

Of the black women on Biden’s list of vice presidential choices, most of the media buzz has gone to Harris. Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart calls her “a fighter.” He wrote, “Harris would not be rattled by the inevitable bullying by Trump and his campaign. She is neither afraid of a fight nor afraid of him.”

But her presidential bid failed to connect with voters in any significant way. Although Harris made black women her special focus, she did little better among black voters than Warren did. Her candidacy ultimately failed because she was unsure of who she wanted to be – a progressive or a centrist. Her multiple changes of direction don’t lend confidence to the idea that she would make a good president.

Another potential black female vice presidential choice being talked about is Florida US Representative Val Demings. A former Orlando police chief, she acquitted herself well as one of the House-appointed impeachment managers in Trump’s trial before the US Senate.

But Demings has never run even a statewide race. She won her House seat in 2016 after a court-ordered redistricting made the Florida 10th District significantly more Democratic.

Abrams, by comparison, came within two percentage points of being elected governor of Georgia against fierce Republican opposition. She now heads Fair Fight, a national organization she started to oppose Republicans’ efforts at voter suppression.

And she has a big following among young voters, who have been decidedly cool toward Biden. In Georgia in 2018, Abrams won the 18-to-29 year old vote by nearly 30 points. Barack Obama in 2008 had lost that group by three points. (There was no exit polling in Georgia in 2012.)

Abrams would be by far Biden’s best choice to help him win the crucial swing states of North Carolina and Florida, with their large black voting populations, and even to put Georgia into play. Neither Harris nor Warren nor Klobuchar would offer comparable advantages.

Her biggest liability is her lack of national government experience, something Republicans will be sure to highlight if Abrams is the vice presidential nominee. But she served at a high level in the government of a large and important state, winning praise for her charm and her intellect.

She is a graduate of Yale University Law School and is a New York Times bestselling author for her memoir, “Lead From the Outside.” She has also written eight romance novels under the pen name Selena Montgomery.

She even has Republican admirers. Former Georgia Governor Nathan Deal, quoted in a profile in the Washington Post, credited her for working with him to save Georgia’s HOPE Scholarship for low income youths in the midst of the 2008-2009 recession.

“We did not always agree on all the issues that we were confronted with,” Deal told the Washington Post, “but on that one, which was a significant one, I thought she demonstrated the kind of leadership that you hope people would do regardless of party labels.”

The Post profile described her this way: “She is scholarly, but she can also wax poetic on football. She is a policy wonk, but she can effortlessly pivot to sending goofy memes to the children of good buddies. She is a pop culture junkie who also is very literate on the sway and potential of technology. She is secure in her identity as a black woman, but also sees herself as appealing broadly to people of all colors and identities.”

Henry Eichel follows US politics from Lexington, South Carolina.

Asia Times Financial is now live. Linking accurate news, insightful analysis and local knowledge with the ATF China Bond 50 Index, the world's first benchmark cross sector Chinese Bond Indices. Read ATF now.
I will add one other major point in her favor: she was endorsed in the primary of the Georgia gubernatorial race by Bernie Sanders and Our Revolution, which shows that she is, if not as far left as Bernie or AOC, at least someone who has a history of compatibility with Bernie Sanders and his movement. At the same time, she has worked with Clinton-aligned Centrists as well, so while that will no doubt be used by some as proof that she's not a true progressive, it does show that she's someone who has appeal across the party base.
Kamala's prospects have been damaged since 2018 when Nick Kristof pointed out how she ignored a petition from a death row inmate in which it's very likely that the police sabotaged DNA testing to keep a guy on death row and actively destroyed evidence implying that a white contract killer was the true murderer. That case made me skeptical LONG before she was running and it also opened the floodgate to examining her record.

Just google Kevin Cooper. I swear to god that case makes most wrongful conviction cases look just by comparison

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-01 08:46pm

Biden's potential VP picks have been weighing in on the protests, and the use of violence. While they have mostly condemned the violence, as expected, the specifics vary:

https://newsweek.com/joe-bidens-leading ... th-1507854
Former Vice President Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, has condemned the violence at race protests across the country over the killing of George Floyd.

"Protesting such brutality is right and necessary. It's an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not," Biden said in a statement Saturday night.

Floyd, a 46-year-old black man, died during a police arrest on May 25. Video of the arrest showed a Minneapolis police officer pinning Floyd to the ground with a knee to his neck as he could be heard saying "I can't breathe." The officer who pinned him to the ground, Derek Chauvin, has been charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter.

Protests have erupted across the country for six days after Floyd's death. More than 20 states activated national guard forces and dozens of cities issued curfews in response to the violence.

Many of the women on Biden's shortlist for vice president have echoed his statement against violence, including Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms; Senators Amy Klobuchar and Kamala Harris; and Representative Val Demings. Others like Stacey Abrams and Elizabeth Warren have so far largely avoided the issue of violence by protesters.

Mayor Bottoms earned widespread praise for her condemnation of violent demonstrations that erupted in her city in her calls for justice. The protests in Georgia included vandalism outside of CNN's headquarters and at the College Football Hall of Fame.

"This is not Atlanta. This is not a protest. This is not in the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr. This is chaos. A protest has purpose. When Dr. King was assassinated we didn't do this to our city," Bottoms said during a press conference. "So if you love this city—this city that has had a legacy of black mayors and black police chiefs and people who care about this city where more than 50 percent of the business owners in metro Atlanta are minority business owners—if you care about this city then go home."

Senator Klobuchar, whose record as a former prosecutor in Minnesota has been criticized amid Floyd's death, issued several tweets last week stating that "vandalism has to stop" and "we can't hurt each other." She also retweeted calls from other officials such as Representative John Lewis and Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison urging people to stop the destruction caused by rioting and looting businesses.

Senator Harris joined a peaceful protest in front of the White House on Saturday. In a statement, her communications director and adviser Sabrina Singh told Newsweek: "Senator Harris has attended protests since the time she was in a stroller. Black communities have not received equal justice under law for centuries. The pain is real. It's deep. It's legitimate. People must be heard by protesting and demonstrating peacefully."

In an interview over the weekend, Harris said it "shouldn't have to take folks burning buildings to be taken seriously about the need that the community has, that the family of Mr. Floyd has."

Representative Val Demings (D-Fla.) told MSNBC's Morning Joe on Monday that in order for the nation to heal "we have got to stay focused on what brought us here in the first place." In a tweet last week, Demings wrote that "life is more valuable than property."

"We can talk about the looting, we can talk about the rioting, we can talk about the destruction but why are we at this point? We are at this point because we say that the preservation of human life is our top priority," Demings told MSNBC. "It should be the top priority for the community and it should certainly be the top priority for the police departments across this nation"

When asked if she supported Biden's condemnation of the violence, Demings told Newsweek: "Yes. Of course I believe that people shouldn't burn, loot, and riot. But like Vice President Biden, I understand the deep frustration behind these protests, and the reason behind them: we have to address systemic racism in America. If you care about that issue, you have to turn out to vote for Vice President Biden."

Abrams, a Georgia Democrat and voting rights activist, has been more silent on the issue of violence by protesters. But on Monday, she retweeted a post from her sister Dr. Jeanine Abrams McLean that argued why the protests over Floyd's death shouldn't be considered riots.

"No justice, no peace!" is the chant from this week's protests & rebellions. I reject the word riot. A riot is a violent disturbance of the peace...How can there be peace when some who protest are "very good people" while others are "THUGS"? -Dr. Andrea Abrams #MySisterIsAmazing," the tweet read.

Another potential vice president pick, Senator Warren, has yet to directly address the violence happening at protests across the country. The Massachusetts lawmaker has slammed President Donald Trump over his tweets about the protests, calling them "horrific" and accusing Trump of "calling for violence against Black Americans."

Neither Abrams or Warren responded to Newsweek's request for comment by publication.

Biden has said he will announce a running mate by August 1. The protests have sparked a new wave of public lobbying for Biden to pick a woman of color to be vice president, though African American leaders told Newsweek not to dismiss Warren.
Mayor Bottoms (who, it should be noted, is herself Black) seems particularly strident in her criticisms of violence, to the point that her comments, at least as quoted above, could be taken as condemning the protests altogether. I'm not sure how that'll affect her chances.

I'm not sure silence is a good course for Warren and Abrams here, although Abrams' retweet is about as far as we're likely to see a major Democratic politician go in condoning or empathizing with violence. Which I think is fair- whatever your feelings are on the legitimacy of violence as a tactic, she's running to be Vice President, potentially to take over the Presidency, and one of the President's duties is to uphold the country's laws (of course, this must also mean upholding the law when police break it). Condoning violent revolt (at least in the pre-Trump era) would be a very bizarre position, and arguably a breach of their duty, for a Presidential or Vice Presidential candidate.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-02 02:06am

Biden: Instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there's an unarmed person comin' at 'em with a knife or something to shoot 'em in the leg instead of the heart is a very different thing.

This is pretty high on the 'dumbest shit to say right now' list. Perhaps 'teaching them not to shoot at all' would have gone better, since right now there's, you know, a genuine turn towards police abolitionism going on and a 'compromise' where someone still gets shot is, uh... Not exactly giving much ground.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-02 02:21am

loomer wrote:
2020-06-02 02:06am
Biden: Instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there's an unarmed person comin' at 'em with a knife or something to shoot 'em in the leg instead of the heart is a very different thing.

This is pretty high on the 'dumbest shit to say right now' list. Perhaps 'teaching them not to shoot at all' would have gone better, since right now there's, you know, a genuine turn towards police abolitionism going on and a 'compromise' where someone still gets shot is, uh... Not exactly giving much ground.
Its a dumbass thing to say, yes, both because its obviously nowhere near enough, and because in the rare cases where the police actually do need to use lethal force, aiming for the leg is in no way a reliable way of stopping an attacker.

Biden seems to be at his best when he sticks to scripted responses delivered from his basement. But we've always known this- Biden is infamous for saying whatever pops into his head. I guess that makes him more honest than many leaders, but it also means he says a lot of poorly thought-out malarky, to borrow one of his favorite terms.

On a side note, I'm not sure how "police abolitionism" would work, if it means what it sounds like, ie getting rid of all police. Even with massive improvements to education, mental health care, the social safety net, and race relations, there would presumably still be some crime- real crime, not "guilty of living while black". So I'm curious as to what is the alternative envisioned? Because it seems to me that the only large scale alternative that modern society has ever come up with to policing is military rule, and we're getting just a taste of how bad that is right now.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-02 02:32am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-02 02:21am
On a side note, I'm not sure how "police abolitionism" would work, if it means what it sounds like, ie getting rid of all police. Even with massive improvements to education, mental health care, the social safety net, and race relations, there would presumably still be some crime- real crime, not "guilty of living while black". So I'm curious as to what is the alternative envisioned? Because it seems to me that the only large scale alternative that modern society has ever come up with to policing is military rule, and we're getting just a taste of how bad that is right now.
Begin here. A lot of extraordinary work has been done on abolitionism in the American context by Black anarchists and feminists (and by anarchists and feminists elsewhere, too, but each society's approach will be different.) The cliff notes is that abolitionism demands social reform to also address poverty, living conditions, and health so that the primary causes of crime (need, addiction, mental health issues, and social alienation) are resolved, which should bring the number of real crimes down to a tiny, tiny amount, primarily crimes of passion, for which reparative and reconciliative relational models are the replacement for a carceral retributive model that - based on lengthy experience and swathes of evidence - we can safely say doesn't really work.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-02 02:52am

loomer wrote:
2020-06-02 02:32am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-02 02:21am
On a side note, I'm not sure how "police abolitionism" would work, if it means what it sounds like, ie getting rid of all police. Even with massive improvements to education, mental health care, the social safety net, and race relations, there would presumably still be some crime- real crime, not "guilty of living while black". So I'm curious as to what is the alternative envisioned? Because it seems to me that the only large scale alternative that modern society has ever come up with to policing is military rule, and we're getting just a taste of how bad that is right now.
Begin here. A lot of extraordinary work has been done on abolitionism in the American context by Black anarchists and feminists (and by anarchists and feminists elsewhere, too, but each society's approach will be different.) The cliff notes is that abolitionism demands social reform to also address poverty, living conditions, and health so that the primary causes of crime (need, addiction, mental health issues, and social alienation) are resolved, which should bring the number of real crimes down to a tiny, tiny amount, primarily crimes of passion, for which reparative and reconciliative relational models are the replacement for a carceral retributive model that - based on lengthy experience and swathes of evidence - we can safely say doesn't really work.
I'll read that.

I can believe that that would work for the vast majority of things currently classified as crimes, although it would of course take a massive restructuring of a lot more than law enforcement to make it work, and would probably have to be phased in over a course of decades.

I am, however, skeptical that any amount of social reform could completely eliminate the existence of the violently mentally ill, eg serial killers and serial rapists. Reduce it, yes. Completely eliminate it? That's an untested and, at present, untestable hypothesis.

That said, I would agree that it should be possible to massively reduce law enforcement over time while bringing in other reforms, and train those police we do retain to a much higher level.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-02 03:05am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-02 02:52am
loomer wrote:
2020-06-02 02:32am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-02 02:21am
On a side note, I'm not sure how "police abolitionism" would work, if it means what it sounds like, ie getting rid of all police. Even with massive improvements to education, mental health care, the social safety net, and race relations, there would presumably still be some crime- real crime, not "guilty of living while black". So I'm curious as to what is the alternative envisioned? Because it seems to me that the only large scale alternative that modern society has ever come up with to policing is military rule, and we're getting just a taste of how bad that is right now.
Begin here. A lot of extraordinary work has been done on abolitionism in the American context by Black anarchists and feminists (and by anarchists and feminists elsewhere, too, but each society's approach will be different.) The cliff notes is that abolitionism demands social reform to also address poverty, living conditions, and health so that the primary causes of crime (need, addiction, mental health issues, and social alienation) are resolved, which should bring the number of real crimes down to a tiny, tiny amount, primarily crimes of passion, for which reparative and reconciliative relational models are the replacement for a carceral retributive model that - based on lengthy experience and swathes of evidence - we can safely say doesn't really work.
I'll read that.

I can believe that that would work for the vast majority of things currently classified as crimes, although it would of course take a massive restructuring of a lot more than law enforcement to make it work, and would probably have to be phased in over a course of decades.

I am, however, skeptical that any amount of social reform could completely eliminate the existence of the violently mentally ill, eg serial killers and serial rapists. Reduce it, yes. Completely eliminate it? That's an untested and, at present, untestable hypothesis.

That said, I would agree that it should be possible to massively reduce law enforcement over time while bringing in other reforms, and train those police we do retain to a much higher level.
The existence of the 'violently mentally ill' - the Exceptional Lunatic - is a concern, but it's also something of a red herring. When you examine the crime stats, they account for truly miniscule amounts of it, swamped by the rest, and are actually more likely to be victims than perpetrators on the whole - this applies even in homicide stats, where deranged killers are in most cases a tiny blip next to economic-motivated homicide and crime of passion homicide. Most of them are also not killers/rapists/etc because they are mentally ill, but because in addition to untreated mental illness there's social alienation, drug use, or a history of traumatic events. The goal of abolitionism is to produce a society in which these factors do not compound a person's mental illness and where that mental illness is noticed and appropriate interventions are put in place.

There'll still be some people who slip through the cracks, of course - but this is already the case. The police do not, as a rule, protect you from the Exceptional Lunatic until after they have killed someone, and while abolitionists are split on what to do about them (there's a school that maintains a need for extremely small-scale, humane institutions for the Exceptional Lunatic and one that rejects it entirely, usually in favour of community integration models that hinge on treatment, more rarely, a model that simply states that anyone who cannot be reintegrated should be killed) their existence cannot alone justify the existence of the police as currently constituted.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan » 2020-06-02 05:10am

Property crime will always be a thing, as are crimes of passion. Even in ancient societies (before capitalism existed) people wanted what others had. It can be reduced but never extinguished

I mean many of the most monstrous crimes were caused by the wealthy throughout history so no matter how much reform there is law enforcement will always be a thing.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-02 06:12am

Property crime can be enormously reduced by reducing income inequality and unequal access to resources. As for crimes of passion - by their very nature, policing is an inadequate response. They are spontaneous, poorly (if at all) considered and thus not impacted by the prevention mentality, and their recidivism rates are far lower than for nearly any other category of criminal act when adjusted for substance abuse and mental health comorbidities. To justify the existence of the police as currently constituted because of them is foolishness.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan » 2020-06-02 03:57pm

Except that even THAT won’t be enough to get rid of it completely. People have wanted other people’s shit for generations and even people who have resources will want more.

Policing as it currently stands in the US needs an overhaul but only a fool would think abolishing the police or prisons completely is a good idea. Even many of the people rioting would be happy if the police were truly just rather than just abolishing it.

Other countries have prisons that are more humane

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-03 03:29am

Thanks for recommending me that link on prison abolition loomer: I'm still reading through it, but its quite interesting thus far (albeit very, very focussed on the US, as opposed to how prisons operate in other countries).

In other news, there was a slew of primaries today: DC, Indiana, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and South Dakota all held Presidential primaries. Biden appears to be consolidating his support, as unlike in most previous races (excluding only American Samoa and Nebraska), Bernie seems to be getting few no new delegates in most of the races. Looks like Biden will fall just short of crossing the 50% line and becoming officially the presumptive nominee- as per NBC's delegate count, he's currently at 1,921 of the needed 1,991, while Bernie is at 1,020 and to all appearance unlikely to rise much higher (though they do give him three new delegates from South Dakota).

There's something reassuring about the fact that votes are still being held, despite the unrest and the pandemic.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-03 07:40am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-03 03:29am
Thanks for recommending me that link on prison abolition loomer: I'm still reading through it, but its quite interesting thus far (albeit very, very focussed on the US, as opposed to how prisons operate in other countries).
No worries. Abolitionism will always be region specific because each region has its own history of policing and its own issues (other than the general issue that policing-as-practiced has essentially failed and police violence), with different possible solutions based on the economic and social conditions of the society in question. That being said, anyone with any interest can't go wrong with Davis since she's been so influential on the idea generally.

The uprising has, of course, galvanized some youth voters against Trump - but not necessarily into unconditional support.
'We need him to start being bold:' Young voters are craving inspiration from Joe Biden
Washington (CNN)Joe Biden struggled to win over young voters in the Democratic primary.

Now, as the 77-year-old turns his sights to the general election, many young people -- a number of whom rallied behind some of his more progressive rivals in the primary -- want to see if the presumptive Democratic nominee can give them the inspiration and bold change that they crave.

Ja'mal Green, a 24-year-old activist from Chicago, said young people want "a candidate who is going to change their lives." Green was in Minneapolis over the weekend protesting the death of George Floyd, a black man who was killed in police custody after a white officer kneeled on his neck.

"What it all boils down to is: Can Joe Biden be bold for America? We need him to start being bold," Green told CNN. "What is he going to do to about police shooting people because of the color of their skin?"

Green supported Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, and pointed to criminal justice reform, "Medicare for All," the climate crisis and the elimination of student debt as key issues for young voters. If Biden does not move to the left on these issues, Green said he and young people on the left of the political spectrum "won't support either candidate."

Biden has in recent weeks ramped up efforts to engage young voters. Last week, the campaign announced a new initiative called League 46. It consists of three teams -- Students for Biden, Young Professionals for Biden, and Young Elected Officials for Biden -- that will work to whip up support for the former vice president ahead of November.

"Young people more than anyone understand, frankly, that this is one of the most consequential elections in our lifetime," Biden senior adviser Symone Sanders, who is chairing the campaign's new youth voter outreach program, told CNN.

Sanders pointed to the unity task forces set up by the Biden campaign as an example of the former vice president listening and responding directly to the wishes of the progressive community. The Biden campaign and members of Bernie Sanders' former campaign are working together on policy surrounding the climate crisis, health care, immigration, criminal justice reform, the economy and education. The groups include a lineup of progressive leaders, including New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and top Biden campaign aides and allies.

"They're not for show," Symone Sanders said of the task forces, noting she is on the criminal justice task force and that the group's first meeting consisted of a "very robust" conversation. Sanders said that the reports from the task forces would be used to draft the party's platform.

Ahead of November, the campaign is hoping to win over people like Roxie Richner, 18, who supported Sanders in his 2016 and 2020 campaigns. Richner, of Michigan, will be able to vote for the first time in November. She said she will probably vote for Biden, but said she is "not 100% sure."

"My generation is leading the push for change on many fronts. Everyone can see and knows that," Richner said. But she said Biden needs "a shift in tone and policy," to attract younger voters. She said there have to be "concrete solutions and action plans put on the table before young people can feel ready to get behind him."

Richner told CNN that Biden has yet to make the "necessary concessions" such as a commitment to support Medicare For All and the Green New Deal, "that he would need to have progressives jump on board."

'I think they are making real progress'

Sarah Audelo, the executive director of Alliance for Youth Action, said the Biden campaign has not been doing enough to reach out to young voters. "But I think they are making real progress, which is important," Audelo said, pointing to the task forces.

Audelo said it will be important for Biden to show leadership on the economy as millions of young people are loaded with student debt and trying to enter the job market in an economic downturn caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

Heather Greven, the communications director at NextGen America, told CNN that having Ocasio-Cortez co-leading one of the task forces "is a big sign to young folks and folks organizing in the progressive sphere that Biden is not going to fight us, and he understands that he needs us to win in November."
Greven said that one of NextGen America's most effective messages is "explaining to folks that Biden is not perfect." She said, "We're not going to sell him as some progressive savior, but we are going to sell him as the competent alternative to disaster, which is another four years of Donald Trump."

NextGen America, which was founded by billionaire and former Democratic presidential candidate Tom Steyer and focuses on mobilizing young voters, last week endorsed Biden and said it would invest $45 million to target more than 4.5 million potential voters ages 18-35 in key battleground states.

As Biden looks to win over young progressives, he has been taking steps to embrace his former rivals and adopt parts of their platforms, and has shown a willingness to move left. He now supports lowering the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 60, the cancellation of more student debt and backed a plan to make universities tuition-free for those families that make less than $125,000 per year.

But many young people want Biden to make more significant changes to his policy platform.

"There are some things that (Biden) needs to be pushed on and challenged over," said Davonte Johnson, a youth organizer with Detroit Action, a group fighting for economic and social justice for working class people of color. Johnson, who supported Warren in the primary, pointed to issues like criminal justice reform, education, and plans to bring people out of poverty as things Biden needs to be pushed on. "Young people are still just waiting to see what's what, like what's going on."

Still, Victor Shi, who turned 18 over the weekend, said he found Biden's plan acceptable and backed the former vice president in the primary.
"I thought his policies were progressive enough to actually get enacted once he is president," Shi told CNN. He liked the policies put forward by Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Sanders, he said, "but I just didn't think they were really realistic."

Shi, who will be a delegate at the Democratic National Convention was told by the campaign he would be the youngest delegate from Illinois, said he believes the former vice president connects with people on a deeper level than most politicians. "When he speaks, you can definitely sense the empathy that is just naturally there," Shi said.

He pointed to the differing responses from Trump and Biden to the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed more than 100,000 Americans to date.
"The difference in how the two candidates are responding to coronavirus is a real indication of what might come when he actually is in the White House," Shi said, "like (Biden) will be guided by scientific facts and real information and, as opposed to what the President is doing right now."

Opposition to Trump

Many young voters may not have picked Biden as their first choice in the primary, but they tell CNN they will vote for him in the general election simply because they do not want four more years of President Donald Trump.

Trump is a highly motivating factor for young voters, according to a spring Harvard Youth Poll, and the Trump presidency has propelled many young Americans, particularly on the left, to become politically active.

"Yes, I'm voting for Joe, but I don't have to be excited about it," Cameron Kasky, the 19-year-old co-founder of March For Our Lives, told CNN. "I just don't understand how somebody could be pumped about Joe."

But according to Kasky, when it comes to 2020, "It's not about getting young people excited, it's about getting people pragmatic."
"My message to young people is: I'm not too excited about voting for Joe Biden, but whenever I think about how unexcited I am, I just YouTube videos of Trump, and I'm like, 'OK, I'm voting for Joe Biden,'" Kasky said.

A spring Harvard Youth Poll found that Biden has a significant lead (+23) over Trump among young Americans aged 18 to 29. The poll also found Biden's advantage (+30) among young voters is comparable to what Sanders would have had if the Vermont senator were the presumptive Democratic nominee.
But CNN's Harry Enten noted Biden seemed to be underperforming 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton with young voters. Biden was leading Trump by 14 points but doing about 10 points worse than Clinton did on average among the last five high-quality national probability polls with an 18-34-year-old voter breakdown.

In the 2016 presidential election, Trump carried only about one-third of voters younger than 30, but Clinton won only 55% of younger voters, well below Obama's 66% in 2008 and 60% in 2012, according to exit polls. One in 11 of those younger voters backed third-party candidates in 2016, more than among any older age group. Obama's campaign appealed to a desire for hope and a constituency ready for change.

"You have to meet people where they are"

Biden has in recent weeks appeared on several social media platforms as he makes efforts to reach out to younger audiences. He made his debut on TikTok, a video-sharing platform especially popular among young people, appeared on the Snapchat political show Good Luck America, and went on Instagram Live with soccer star Megan Rapinoe. Biden also delivered a speech on his plans to address skyrocketing unemployment and economic turmoil on NowThis, a left-wing, social media-focused platform.

Over the next two weeks, Young Elected Officials for Biden will host "mini Instagram town halls," where a young elected official is paired with a celebrity, according to Sanders.

The campaign also launched a show on Snapchat called Wine Down Wednesdays, where Sanders answers questions posed by young people on Snapchat. The show, which aired for the first time last week, will air every week leading up to the general election, Sanders told CNN.

"We truly believe you have to meet people where they are. And that means sometimes you got to go to Instagram, sometimes you got to go to Snapchat, sometimes you got to have a town hall with a really cool state rep. We have to get creative," Sanders told CNN.

Michigan Lt. Gov. Garlin Gilchrist II, 37, voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016 but endorsed Biden this year ahead of Michigan's Democratic primary.
"The reality of the Trump presidency has just raised the stakes for this election so high," Gilchrist said of his decision to back Biden instead of Sanders this year.

He recently participated in a virtual brunch put on by the Biden campaign alongside former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang, 45, whose support mostly came from young voters.

"We need someone that we can trust to pull us forward, to work with us, to have important enough and big enough ideas that actually we can believe will work for people," Gilchrist said. "That's what's at stake for me here, that's what's at stake for me as a young parent and a young person. And I think Joe Biden is the right person for this job and for this moment."
Source
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Soontir C'boath » 2020-06-03 11:28am

"If I didn't have a primary I wouldn't care,"

“In the context of running for re-election, I thought it was important for people to know where I stand, that's why I asked to speak.

Oh, so if it wasn't an election year, he wouldn't care right? Democratic voters need to realize, this is really how most of them really feel. Stop being bamboozled that Republicans are worse when we have Democrats in blue strongholds like this. Primary them out of office already.
Bronx News 12 wrote:Rep. Eliot Engel was caught by a News 12 microphone during press event saying something that could be damaging to his re-election hopes.

In just three weeks – Rep. Engel faces several challengers looking to unseat him in Congress, representing New York's 16th District in the Bronx and Westchester.

This afternoon, the congressman asked Bronx Borough President Ruben Diaz Jr. if he could speak at a press conference after a night of looting and racial unrest in the Bronx. The exchange was caught by News 12 microphones:

Diaz Jr. - "Please bear with me, I'll announce everybody, I appreciate you coming but then I got to go down the list and it's just too many people," said Diaz Jr.

Rep. Engel - "If I didn't have a primary I wouldn't care," said Rep. Engel.

Diaz Jr. - "Say that again?"

Rep. Engel - "If I didn't have a primary, I wouldn't care."

Diaz Jr. – “Don't do that to me. We're not going to do this. We're not politicizing. Everybody's got a primary, you know? I'm sorry."

The video immediately made its way to social media and garnered responses from many officials, including Public Advocate Jumaane Williams and primary rival Jamaal Bowman.

Rep. Engel responded to his comments in a statement:

“In the context of running for re-election, I thought it was important for people to know where I stand, that's why I asked to speak. Of course, I care deeply about what's happening in this country, that's what I wanted to convey. I love the Bronx, grew up in the Bronx and lived here all my life. I would not have tried to impose on the borough president if I didn't think it was important.”

“We had many elected officials who attended the press conference, coming out in solidarity of our message of racial justice and our calls for police reform, so the speaking program was purposely kept extremely limited to a couple of speakers. I will continue to support and endorse Congressman Engel as I have consistently done throughout my tenure as borough president. Congressman Engel is a distinguished and effective partner in government, he is dedicated, and always fights for the people of his district bringing results to The Bronx,” said Bronx Borough President Ruben Diaz Jr. in a statement.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-03 12:18pm

The disparate responses of Biden and Trump to the current unrest is by itself proof enough that the old "Democrats are just as bad as Republicans" canard is false. Trump literally gassed peaceful protesters for a photo op.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by loomer » 2020-06-03 02:10pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-03 12:18pm
The disparate responses of Biden and Trump to the current unrest is by itself proof enough that the old "Democrats are just as bad as Republicans" canard is false. Trump literally gassed peaceful protesters for a photo op.
The problem with convincing voters of this is that democratic governors are also deploying jackbooted forces to crush dissent and break peaceful protests wide open. While we're agreed that Trump remains worse than Biden, voters who saw someone lose an eye to troops deployed by a Democrat governor and Democrat mayor might not be particularly inclined to see a difference.
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-03 10:15pm

loomer wrote:
2020-06-03 02:10pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2020-06-03 12:18pm
The disparate responses of Biden and Trump to the current unrest is by itself proof enough that the old "Democrats are just as bad as Republicans" canard is false. Trump literally gassed peaceful protesters for a photo op.
The problem with convincing voters of this is that democratic governors are also deploying jackbooted forces to crush dissent and break peaceful protests wide open. While we're agreed that Trump remains worse than Biden, voters who saw someone lose an eye to troops deployed by a Democrat governor and Democrat mayor might not be particularly inclined to see a difference.
True.

However, I think the key difference is that there is a range of opinions in the Democratic Party, and room for actually pushing reform, whereas the Republican Party at this point is wholly Trump's creature. Among Democrats, you have DINOS who are basically Republicans from ten years ago, and you have democratic socialists and black leaders like Stacey Abrams who express at least tentative support for the looters- and everything in between. Moreover, Biden has shown in substantive ways that he can actually be pressured and persuaded to move Leftward, not as far and as fast as we might like, but he is actually open to sitting down with progressives and even democratic socialists, listening to us, and at least somewhat modifying his policies as a result. Whereas Trump hates listening to anyone but himself and his flatterers, and on the rare ocassions he does bend to pressure, tends to be inconsistent in doing so.

Basically, one organization has room to grow, while the other is wholly committed, at least at the national level, to supression of dissent by fraud, or outright force.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-06-03 11:02pm

And here's some news to brighten my day: Rep. Steve King lost his primary yesterday:

https://axios.com/steve-king-iowa-prima ... efcdf.html
State Sen. Randy Feenstra defeated incumbent Rep. Steve King in Tuesday's Republican primary for Iowa's 4th congressional district, according to the Cook Political Report.

Why it matters: King's history of racist remarks has made him one of the most controversial politicians in the country and a pariah within the Republican Party.

House Republican leadership stripped the nine-term congressman of his committee assignments in 2019 after he questioned in an interview with the New York Times how the terms "white nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization" became offensive.
The big picture: The Republican establishment coalesced around Feenstra beginning in January, when the Republican Main Street Partnership PAC became the first national GOP organization to publicly endorse and financially support him.

Feenstra, who has consistently dominated King in fundraising, had sought to paint King as an ineffective ally to President Trump, rather than campaign on his history of white nationalist rhetoric.
Feenstra's victory will likely move the seat into safe Republican territory for the general election in November.
It will likely cost any slim chance of flipping the seat, but screw it, I'm still glad he's gone.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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