Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

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Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 04:36pm

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/pentago ... -1.4149358
The Pentagon on Friday approved a request for additional troops at the southern border, likely to total several hundred to help the U.S. Border Patrol as President Donald Trump seeks to transform fears about immigration and a caravan of Central American migrants into electoral gains in the midterms.
As the article points out, its not unheard of by any means for the National Guard to be deployed to assist with border security, though it is unusual for active duty military to be deployed for that purpose. However, "In the current situation, active duty troops will not be on armed security missions."

So this is more a stunt than any actual action at present, but its still cause for concern. In addition to the obvious misuse of the armed forces for a xenophobic strong man's election campaign stunt, and the threatening posture towards innocent civilians and the nation of Mexico, there is a more subtle sinister aspect to what Trump is doing- he is further normalizing the idea of the President deploying the military for domestic law enforcement purposes- in violation of federal law:
The addition of 800 or more active duty troops, if approved, as expected, by Mattis, is in response to a request from the Department of Homeland Security, which manages the Border Patrol, a U.S. official said.

DHS asked for help in various forms. It was not immediately clear why active duty forces were chosen, since National Guard troops can perform the same functions. Earlier this year Mattis authorized Pentagon funding for up to 4,000 National Guard troops on the border and thus far only a little over 2,000 have been used.

Federal law prohibits the use of active duty service members for law enforcement inside the U.S. unless specifically authorized by Congress.
My Mum, taking a more conspiratorial view of things, also pointed out that this could be a pretext to deploy troops in advance of election day.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Mr Bean » 2018-10-26 05:07pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-26 04:36pm


As the article points out, its not unheard of by any means for the National Guard to be deployed to assist with border security, though it is unusual for active duty military to be deployed for that purpose. However, "In the current situation, active duty troops will not be on armed security missions."

So this is more a stunt than any actual action at present, but its still cause for concern.
Yes who know who also did this? Bush II and Obama do you know what they do?

Wash cars

No seriously when Bush II and Obama "Deployed troops to the border" per talking with those deployed they used about 10% of that manpower for useful things to free up border patrol and the remaining 90% got KP duty, or washing the transports or rotation tires on the entire battalions trucks or sweeping the dirt.

This is public posturing and the last three Presidents have all done it, at least 800 troops is enough to ensure perhaps only 200 soldiers will be equiped with brooms to dust off the gravel roads near the CP.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Agent Fisher » 2018-10-26 05:13pm

While I’m sure your picturing grunts with rifles, I’d be willing to put money that this will be aviation assets or observation suff.

I am a bit surprised that it wasn’t just federalizing Guard units. But oh well. Personally I have no problem with Guard or Active duty providing support elements to the Border Patrol. Especially when it’s a giant caravan of people that is essentially saying ‘we don’t care about your immigration laws or your border, we’re coming in’. A country absolutely has a right to control who and how many people enter.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 05:24pm

Mr Bean wrote:
2018-10-26 05:07pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-26 04:36pm


As the article points out, its not unheard of by any means for the National Guard to be deployed to assist with border security, though it is unusual for active duty military to be deployed for that purpose. However, "In the current situation, active duty troops will not be on armed security missions."

So this is more a stunt than any actual action at present, but its still cause for concern.
Yes who know who also did this? Bush II and Obama do you know what they do?

Wash cars

No seriously when Bush II and Obama "Deployed troops to the border" per talking with those deployed they used about 10% of that manpower for useful things to free up border patrol and the remaining 90% got KP duty, or washing the transports or rotation tires on the entire battalions trucks or sweeping the dirt.

This is public posturing and the last three Presidents have all done it, at least 800 troops is enough to ensure perhaps only 200 soldiers will be equiped with brooms to dust off the gravel roads near the CP.
Did Obama or Bush the Lesser deploy active duty troops, or just National Guard? And if the former, did they get Congressional authorization first? Those are very significant legal distinctions.

There's also the question of how Trump is using it. He's not just quietly deploying troops to assist the Border Patrol- he's making a big deal out of it, to use the armed forces as a campaign prop.
Agent Fisher wrote:
2018-10-26 05:13pm
While I’m sure your picturing grunts with rifles, I’d be willing to put money that this will be aviation assets or observation suff.
Oh look, yet another poster telling me what I think so they can ridicule me for it, rather than addressing my actual arguments.

The article says that these troops will not be deployed "on armed security missions". I noted so in my OP. Which makes this slightly less awful than the worst possible thing Trump could have done, but does not change my objections to the illegal deployment of active duty troops, or the use of the armed forces of the United States as a campaign prop.
I am a bit surprised that it wasn’t just federalizing Guard units. But oh well. Personally I have no problem with Guard or Active duty providing support elements to the Border Patrol.
You have no problem with a blatant violation of Federal law intended to prevent unnecessary invocations of Martial Law. Got it.
Especially when it’s a giant caravan of people that is essentially saying ‘we don’t care about your immigration laws or your border, we’re coming in’. A country absolutely has a right to control who and how many people enter.
Ah, I get it, you're a xenophobe.

"I have a right to do something" (which Trump doesn't, legally, in this case) is not in and of itself sufficient argument for why you should do it. "We have a right to keep brown/foreign people out", even if I accepted that argument (which I do not) would not be sufficient argument for why we should keep them out.

Also, you have made zero effort to explain why this deployment is actually necessary to secure the border- probably because it can't be done.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Agent Fisher » 2018-10-26 05:37pm

Well, since apparently I can understand there is a difference between support missions and law enforcement missions for the military, maybe I don’t see the sky falling about this. Now, I promise, if those active duty troops are used to actually put cuffs on people instead of driving transport trucks or flying border patrol around or sweeping floors or whatever they’ll probably do, yes, then I will have a massive problem with it.

As to this being necessary, probably not, you most likely could do this with national guard and it’d be the same outcome. This may have been done for budget reasons or since we don’t know exactly which state is going to be their intended destination, it was decided to use active duty.

As for the xenophobe crack. Yep, you’re right, knowing absolutely nothing about my personal life or beliefs other than I believe any country has the right to control their border, you’ve successfully identified my xenophobic personality. As a matter of fact, I sleep with a shotgun, terrified of anyone with a skin shade darker than a paper plate living within fifty miles.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 05:49pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2018-10-26 05:37pm
Well, since apparently I can understand there is a difference between support missions and law enforcement missions for the military, maybe I don’t see the sky falling about this. Now, I promise, if those active duty troops are used to actually put cuffs on people instead of driving transport trucks or flying border patrol around or sweeping floors or whatever they’ll probably do, yes, then I will have a massive problem with it.
As I said, repeatedly, I am well aware of the role to which these troops are assigned, and it does not change my objections. Since I have addressed this point twice already, and you are clearly not illiterate, I can only presume that you are being deliberately disingenuous.

I'm glad to hear that troops rounding up people is something that you would object to.
As to this being necessary, probably not, you most likely could do this with national guard and it’d be the same outcome. This may have been done for budget reasons or since we don’t know exactly which state is going to be their intended destination, it was decided to use active duty.
So you acknowledge that this is probably unnecessary, though a more important question than whether active duty troops are necessary is whether there is a crisis which warrants deploying any troops at all.

In any case, regardless of the reasons for deploying active duty troops, it doesn't change the fact that its illegal.
As for the xenophobe crack. Yep, you’re right, knowing absolutely nothing about my personal life or beliefs other than I believe any country has the right to control their border, you’ve successfully identified my xenophobic personality. As a matter of fact, I sleep with a shotgun, terrified of anyone with a skin shade darker than a paper plate living within fifty miles.
If you defend the "right" to use troops to keep foreigners out of the country without offering any further justification for why this ought to or needs to be done, then "xenophobe" is not a huge leap.

But I'll bite: do you believe that the US needs to do more to keep foreigners out of the country, and if so, why?
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Agent Fisher » 2018-10-26 06:05pm

I apologize for not quoting parts to make it easier to read, but I am posting from my phone.

I am not trying to be disingenuous when I maintain there is a difference between using the military in a support role to assist civilian law enforcement or agencies versus using the military in an enforcement capacity.


Do I believe the US needs to do more to keep out foreigners, absolutely not. We need to make it easier for legal immigration. It’s a mess right now, how many hoops and how long the process takes to allow someone to move to this country. If there is someone from the far corners of the world who wants to move to the US and they’re willing to deal with the headache of doing it legally, I want them here. If there is someone who has skills or education that could possible help my country, I want them here.

But I firmly believe that just cause someone walks across our border does not give them the right to stay. If I just walked into Canada and declared that I live there now, I’d be sent packing.

I defend the right of a country to use a federal police service to provide their border security for actual hands on contacts and to use military assets for support such as transportation, logistics, observation.

Edit: and if none of those sound like reasonable ideas to you, then I doubt we will ever agree on the issue and I will withdraw from the discussion as I do not have the time or will to engage in what will be otherwise fruitless debate.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 06:40pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2018-10-26 06:05pm
I apologize for not quoting parts to make it easier to read, but I am posting from my phone.

I am not trying to be disingenuous when I maintain there is a difference between using the military in a support role to assist civilian law enforcement or agencies versus using the military in an enforcement capacity.
Sure, there's a difference. But both of them are unnecessary election stunts when done in this context, however. And both of them are illegal if done using active duty troops without Congressional approval.
Do I believe the US needs to do more to keep out foreigners, absolutely not. We need to make it easier for legal immigration. It’s a mess right now, how many hoops and how long the process takes to allow someone to move to this country. If there is someone from the far corners of the world who wants to move to the US and they’re willing to deal with the headache of doing it legally, I want them here. If there is someone who has skills or education that could possible help my country, I want them here.
I largely agree with this, as far as it goes. Unfortunately, getting real comprehensive immigration reform passed now is a non-starter. So people who should be able to come here legally are compelled instead to immigrate illegally, and should not be subjected to draconian punishments for doing so.

In any case, the caravan are not illegal immigrants. They're asylum seekers (who Trump is portraying as a Democrat-sponsored invasion). That distinction, between "illegal immigrant" and "asylum seeker" is one that has often been lost in the debate over this.
But I firmly believe that just cause someone walks across our border does not give them the right to stay. If I just walked into Canada and declared that I live there now, I’d be sent packing.

I defend the right of a country to use a federal police service to provide their border security for actual hands on contacts and to use military assets for support such as transportation, logistics, observation.

Edit: and if none of those sound like reasonable ideas to you, then I doubt we will ever agree on the issue and I will withdraw from the discussion as I do not have the time or will to engage in what will be otherwise fruitless debate.
Again, Trump does not have the right to unilaterally deploy active duty troops, if you want to look at the issue purely from a legal perspective. Nor should he- that limit prevents Presidents from implementing Martial Law for political reasons.

Looking at the larger question of whether a government has the right to secure their border, sure. Ultimately I'm a proponent of global government, but we're a long way from that, and as long as we have countries, their governments have a right to secure their border, within the limits set out by their constitution/laws, and any treaties to which they are signatories.

But you're still avoiding the real point: that just because countries do something, or have a right, legally-speaking, to do something, is not in and of itself sufficient argument for why it should do so. That's what you have to justify- not the legal right of governments to secure their border, but why these policies should (or should not) be implemented.

I do think that there is a fundamental difference in our views here, in that I generally support freedom of movement between countries with only a few specific exceptions, and you (it appears) do not. But perhaps the difference is not so great as you imagine. I don't support a complete absence of border security, as there are some people who should be detained at the border- wanted fugitives, smugglers, and also quarantines in the event of a pandemic scenario. But anyone who does not pose a direct, demonstrable threat (ie they're a dangerous criminal or carrying an infectious, lethal disease) should be allowed to pass.* In other words, ideally, we would have a secure border and uphold our laws, but it would be much easier to enter legally. But since it is not easy to enter legally, and there is no political solution to that in sight, we have a choice- do we enforce needlessly harsh, authoritarian, inhumane, and xenophobic laws simply because they're the law? Or do we choose to disobey those laws and defend the rights of those who violate them, because we recognize that those laws should not exist in their current form, and that enforcing them does more harm than good? In short, in the absence of an ideal solution, do we choose to err on the side of enforcement, or of liberty?

For my part, I choose liberty.


Edit: Of course, all this is tangential to the simple fact that deploying active duty troops to aid in domestic law enforcement without Congressional approval is illegal, and that there is pretty much no benefit to doing so here other than (possibly) to the Republican's midterm campaign.


*I would also require every immigrant to take and pass a test on US law, but then, I also think that all high school students should have to pass an introductory law course to graduate.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Mr Bean » 2018-10-26 06:49pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-26 05:24pm

Did Obama or Bush the Lesser deploy active duty troops, or just National Guard? And if the former, did they get Congressional authorization first? Those are very significant legal distinctions.
As far as I recall and per the Washington Post story on this old story on this both Obama and Bush did it under their own initiative no Congress action required, deploying the national guard is pretty much always at Presidential direction.

Trump does many bad things, but this is literally something the two previous presidents have done, it's kind of a thing now to say Rar I'm tough on Immigration.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-26 05:24pm
There's also the question of how Trump is using it. He's not just quietly deploying troops to assist the Border Patrol- he's making a big deal out of it, to use the armed forces as a campaign prop.
Of course he is but there are laws preventing them from doing any law enforcement, Commanders are not robots they have brains and morals and oaths of service. And this is occurring in this place called America, home of cell phone cameras 24/7 news networks and entire groups of people dedicated to watching the police and the military.

This is an empty gesture and there going to be some very clean trucks in a week.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 06:56pm

Mr Bean wrote:
2018-10-26 06:49pm
As far as I recall and per the Washington Post story on this old story on this both Obama and Bush did it under their own initiative no Congress action required, deploying the national guard is pretty much always at Presidential direction.
Which is kind of why I asked whether Bush and Obama deployed active duty troops, or just National Guard.
Trump does many bad things, but this is literally something the two previous presidents have done, it's kind of a thing now to say Rar I'm tough on Immigration.
Trump certainly makes more of a spectacle out of everything he does, yes.
Of course he is but there are laws preventing them from doing any law enforcement, Commanders are not robots they have brains and morals and oaths of service.
I sincerely hope that they remember those oaths in the coming months and years.
And this is occurring in this place called America, home of cell phone cameras 24/7 news networks and entire groups of people dedicated to watching the police and the military.

This is an empty gesture and there going to be some very clean trucks in a week.
Its telling that the best defense of this is "Its a complete waste of time that won't actually do anything, just use the military as a prop to make Trump look like an authoritarian strongman to his base.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Agent Fisher » 2018-10-26 07:05pm

It’s an aviation element, logistics, and medical. Here’s what that will mean.

It’ll be an aviation company, maybe a dozen helicopters, to fly border patrol around and deliver supplies. Maybe fly out groups from the caravan to a processing center or something.

It’ll be a company worth of truck drivers, who will deliver supplies to that caravan when it gets here, since they’ll probably be hungry thirsty. They’ll also be used to drive them since I doubt border patrol has enough wheels to move as many people as are coming.

It’ll be a medical company, doctors and medics, to treat injuries and illnesses, provide checkups cause that many people would overwhelm the medical abilities of the Border Patrol.

About 800 people. They’ll be active duty so we don’t have to mobilize even more guardsmen and take them out of their civilian jobs, since we’ve wound down overseas deployments, we have all these active duty soldiers just training. This is not law enforcement. This is a support mission which is not against the law. Just like it’s not against the law to have military units assist in natural disasters without congressional approval.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Mr Bean » 2018-10-26 07:05pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-26 06:56pm

Which is kind of why I asked whether Bush and Obama deployed active duty troops, or just National Guard.
Speaking as someone who grew up near Fort Brag, nationalized active duty soldiers and National Guard troops depending on unit is only a paper difference. There are Texas National Guard units who have more Iraq deployments than some active duty troops, if they have the same equipment same training and same command structure. You seem to be under some belief there's a difference. We deploy national guard and active duty with every bad Hurricane just like every regional conflict see's the North Carolina National Guard as one of the first units on the ground in war.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-26 06:56pm


Its telling that the best defense of this is "Its a complete waste of time that won't actually do anything, just use the military as a prop to make Trump look like an authoritarian strongman to his base.
The best defense is "the last two Presidents did the same thing as an empty gesture" this is a thing Presidents do now because the media did not call out Bush on the very expensive truck washers or President Obama on the extra clean gravel roads.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 07:23pm

I cannot tell you how tired I am of "What about (insert previous politician)" as a defense for authoritarianism. Should military deployments on the border have been called out more in the past? Yes. Should they be called out now? Yes. We need to stop using "We didn't call out shady shit before" as an excuse for never calling it out in the future. Because that's how authoritarianism becomes normalized, and we slide gradually further and further into despotism. Especially since Trump has a tendency to take bad trends and escalate them to a new level, as we've seen here and in lots of other cases.

As to them not being directly used for law enforcement... maybe that will give Trump the legal cover he needs. Personally, I think that's a pretty fine distinction. They may not be cuffing or shooting people, but its still using active duty troops to support law enforcement activities without Congressional approval.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Block » 2018-10-27 02:04am

They're being deployed in an operational support role, it's not uncommon or even outside the scope of their typical duties. You're barking up the wrong tree, it's not authoritarian, it's cost savings for one department of the government at the expense of the DOD. Would you prefer they hire 800 more CBP agents?

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-10-27 10:58am

The caravan no longer consists of "asylum seekers" or "refugees", as they rejected offers of refugee status:

Migrant caravan members reject offer to stay in Mexico
Under the "You are at home" plan, they would have received benefits if they applied for refugee status and stayed in the country's two southernmost states.
Oct. 27, 2018 / 1:03 AM EDT
By Associated Press
ARRIAGA, Mexico — Several thousand Central American migrants turned down a Mexican offer of benefits if they applied for refugee status and stayed in the country's two southernmost states, vowing to set out before dawn Saturday to continue their long trek toward the U.S. border.

Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto announced what he called the "You are at home" plan, offering shelter, medical attention, schooling and jobs to Central Americans in Chiapas and Oaxaca states if they applied, calling it a first step toward permanent refugee status. Authorities said more than 1,700 had already applied for refugee status.

But after one of the caravan's longest days of walking and hanging from passing trucks, the bulk of the migrants were boisterous Friday evening in their refusal to accept anything less than safe passage to the U.S. border.

"Thank you!" they yelled as they voted to reject the offer in a show of hands in the town of Arriaga. They then added: "No, we're heading north!"

Sitting at the edge of the edge of the town square, 58-year-old Oscar Sosa of San Pedro Sula, Honduras concurred.

"Our goal is not to remain in Mexico," Sosa said. "Our goal is to make it to the (U.S). We want passage, that's all."
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Tribble » 2018-10-27 11:34am

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-10-27 10:58am
The caravan no longer consists of "asylum seekers" or "refugees", as they rejected offers of refugee status:
Well, how bad is Mexico atm? Is it unsafe to the point where they are still at significant risk of harm by staying?

If not, then what should the US response be? If a refugee is offered the above in a relatively safe country and refuses the offer due to wanting to go to greener pastures elsewhere, should that be considered acceptable?
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-10-27 11:37am

Tribble wrote:
2018-10-27 11:34am
If a refugee is offered the above in a relatively safe country and refuses the offer due to wanting to go to greener pastures elsewhere, should that be considered acceptable?
At that point, they're not refugees or asylum seekers, but economic migrants. They should not be processed under the rules for asylum seekers or refugees, but be forced to apply for entry as any other foreign job-seeker would.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-27 04:32pm

Mexico is not really a safe country in general, no (for that matter I don't consider the US a safe country for migrants, at this point, for reasons that should be obvious).

And yes, I would gladly welcome the caravan here in Canada, if it were up to me.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-10-27 10:23pm

It was only a matter of time, before some right-wing asshole suggested we invade Mexico.

Now, that suggestion is being floated on Facefuck.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-10-28 04:29am

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-10-27 11:37am
Tribble wrote:
2018-10-27 11:34am
If a refugee is offered the above in a relatively safe country and refuses the offer due to wanting to go to greener pastures elsewhere, should that be considered acceptable?
At that point, they're not refugees or asylum seekers, but economic migrants. They should not be processed under the rules for asylum seekers or refugees, but be forced to apply for entry as any other foreign job-seeker would.
Mexico is a drug war zone, full of murderous areas without any shred of government control. An offer of refugee status there is just about as as meaningless as asylum for Syrians in Libya.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Ralin » 2018-10-28 08:39am

U.P. Cinnabar wrote:
2018-10-27 10:23pm
It was only a matter of time, before some right-wing asshole suggested we invade Mexico.
Pretty sure we did that a long time ago.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-10-28 11:30am

Again, then.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-28 02:51pm

I'm not surprised. Fascists historically were not content to keep their oppression within their borders- why should we expect the new fascists to be any more hesitant to seize themselves some Lebensraum?

Given Trump's aggressive posturing towards both Mexico and Canada, and the history of fascism in this regard, there are times I wonder if our countries shouldn't be forming a bilateral mutual defence pact.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by Zaune » 2018-10-28 03:43pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-28 02:51pm
Given Trump's aggressive posturing towards both Mexico and Canada, and the history of fascism in this regard, there are times I wonder if our countries shouldn't be forming a bilateral mutual defence pact.
Multilateral. Get the EU involved as well, they're going to be the next targets after he's done with you guys, and they have force-projection and a nuclear deterrent.
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Re: Der Fuhrer deploys 800 soldiers to the border to "stop the caravan".

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-28 03:44pm

Zaune wrote:
2018-10-28 03:43pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-10-28 02:51pm
Given Trump's aggressive posturing towards both Mexico and Canada, and the history of fascism in this regard, there are times I wonder if our countries shouldn't be forming a bilateral mutual defence pact.
Multilateral. Get the EU involved as well, they're going to be the next targets after he's done with you guys, and they have force-projection and a nuclear deterrent.
The EU are already in the crosshairs of his backer, Putin. And Bannon is over there rallying support for far-Right European politicians. The goal there is not conquest so much as subversion from within.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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