Alex Jones slanders, threatens, incites violence against Robert Mueller.

[The Romulan Republic]

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39851 ... die-trying

Infowars host Alex Jones on Monday issued a threat toward special counsel Robert Mueller, accusing him of covering up sex crimes and suggesting he wanted to duel the former FBI chief in an imaginary gunfight.

Jones made the comments on an episode of "The Alex Jones Show," first reported by Media Matters.

"I mean, Mueller covered up for a decade for [Jeffrey] Epstein kidnapping kids, flying them on sex planes, some kids as young as seven years old reportedly, with big perverts raping them to frame people," Jones says in the video, referring to billionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was convicted of sex crimes after being accused of soliciting multiple teenage girls as young as 13.

"Mueller is a monster, man," Jones continues in the video. "People say, Well, God, aren't you scared of him?' I'm scared of not manning up. I'm constantly in fear that I'm not being a real man, and I'm not doing what it takes, and I'm not telling the truth.

Jones then pivoted to an analogy where Mueller and he were dueling cowboys, meeting "politically" at high noon for a shootout.

"That's a demon I will take down, or I'll die trying. So that's it. It's going to happen, we're going to walk out in the square, politically, at high noon, and he's going to find out whether he makes a move man, make the move first, and then it's going to happen," Jones said, miming a pistol with his hand.

"It's not a joke. It's not a game. It's the real world. Politically. You're going to get it, or I'm going to die trying, bitch. Get ready. We're going to bang heads. We're going to bang heads."

It's not clear if Jones's words could constitute a transmitted threat against Mueller, who is currently leading the special counsel investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election and possible collusion with the Trump campaign. Threatening a federal official with violence is a class C or D felony, punishable by up to five or 10 years in prison.

Jones, a far-right-wing supporter of President Trump who has frequently accused Democrats of being "demon possessed," has accused Mueller's investigation of being the head of a deep-state conspiracy aimed at taking down Trump's presidency.

Jones has backed a number of conspiracy theories over the years.

The Infowars founder is currently being sued by families of victims of the 2011 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, after which Jones claimed that the attack was a false-flag operation. He is represented by Marc Randazza and Jay Wolman of the Las Vegas-based Randazza Legal Group.

Is "Randazza Legal Group"'s real name Wolfram and Hart, by any chance?

I actually doubt whether he'll get in much legal trouble, given the narrowness of American laws restricting freedom of expression, but its certainly despicable and dangerous, in addition to being one of the worst cases of overcompensating Internet Tough Guy-ism I've ever seen. Alex Jones being a worthless sack of excrement in human form is nothing new, of course, but this is bad even by his low standards.

Also... violence, or threats of violence, is not how we're supposed to handle things in a civilized country, but I'm fairly certain that the Marine Corps Captain and combat veteran, Purple Heart and Bronze Star (with valor) recipient and long-time FBI agent could put Alex Jones in the ground.

Edit: The thing about posturing assholes like Jones is that they tend to be covering for deep personal cowardice. If Jones believed one word of what he's saying about Mueller being a demonic deep state operative, I very much doubt he'd have the guts to say it. The only reason Jones will say these things is because he knows that the target is an honest man.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I never thought I'd see a a day where I'd consider giving a loathsome human being like Alex Jones the benefit of the doubt, but honestly nothing about his words in my mind even remotely constitute a threat, without radically taking them out of any useful context. Even as someone predisposed to hating him and everything he stands for, it's pretty clear to me that he just botched the delivery of a fairly common metaphor.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think that if he does not wish his words to be misconstrued, he should choose them more carefully when discussing such a volatile topic. Certainly many people regarded it as a threat, and if so many perceive it as a threat, others on the far Right might easily perceive it as incitement to engage in violence.

Nor am I going to assume that his intent was innocent. Sure, he can throw in the word "politically" a few times to qualify his description of a violent showdown and stay out of trouble with the law, but dog-whistle incitement of violence is nothing new.

And in any case, what is inarguable is that he has slandered a man by accusing him of protecting sex traffickers.

[Jub]

TRR, I appreciate the passion but sometimes it feels like you're seeking out stuff to get angry about in much the same that the right wing tends to do. Maybe you're just exposed more to it due to location, social circle, work, etc. but take a step back and breath. Spending so much time attacking articles that aren't close to swaying most of this board one way or the other isn't a good use of your time or energy.

[The Romulan Republic]

Perhaps, but I don't really have to go looking for these things. Its there, all the time, right in front of you, unless you cut yourself off from the news or social media altogether. If it wasn't this, it would be Trump's latest tweet, or the fact that Congress just voted down renewing funds to protect our election system, or some other outrage.

Maybe people are tired of hearing about it. I get that. But I think its important to keep paying attention to these stories. Because the fact that there is an ongoing campaign of slander and threats against anyone who tries to hold the President accountable matters. It may not be new, it may not change anyone's opinion to talk about it, but it should absolutely not become ordinary. Ever. There are bigger stories. But I still truly feel that this is something worth talking about.

[Jub]

I guess being in Canada helps for me if it wasn't for twitter and the odd ignorable FB post I'd never see this stuff. I don't care that it get's posted here it's just that you're getting pretty worked up and not really being productive with the energy. Posting her nets you nothing but a place to vent because 90% of us already agree with you and the other 10% aren't changing their mind. If you want change you need to reach the middle of the pack fence sitters and your language and tone aren't going to do that.

[The Romulan Republic]

I guess being in Canada helps for me if it wasn't for twitter and the odd ignorable FB post I'd never see this stuff. I don't care that it get's posted here it's just that you're getting pretty worked up and not really being productive with the energy. Posting her nets you nothing but a place to vent because 90% of us already agree with you and the other 10% aren't changing their mind. If you want change you need to reach the middle of the pack fence sitters and your language and tone aren't going to do that.

Hey, I'm in Canada too (same province, even). But I'm a US citizen, I follow US news, I live with people who follow US news, I vote in US elections, and I volunteer with Democrats Abroad. In fact, as a US citizen, I could argue that I have a greater responsibility to be informed about US news, so that I can act as an informed voter. So it isn't really something I can escape from. Then again, no one really can. We live in a globalized world, and Trump's trade war will mess with Canada's economy, and there are Trump supporters in Canadian politics, and Russia can target Canadian elections too, whether or not we're aware of it. You know that mass shooting in Toronto a few days ago? Committed with a gun from the US.

Of course you're right that SDN isn't the largest audience, and most of us have become pretty ossified in our respective positions on this board, and our relations with another. So yeah, its not much use except for venting, a lot of the time (though I have often found this board a useful source of news in the past).

As to the larger question of appealing to moderates... I've had this argument a lot lately, but in my view, there aren't a lot of fence-sitters left, and people who are still with Trump after children in cages aren't going to be won over, unless they undergo a complete values shift or personality change. You don't want to alienate moderate Democrats and independents, but I don't think there's a huge pool of fence-sitters to win over at this point. This is going to be about turning out people already on our side. So constantly reminding people of what we're up against, and what the cost could be of losing, can help from that point of view. At least that's my thinking- some people obviously disagree.

Edit: I guess my main concerns as far as moderating rhetoric would be a) not radicalizing my own side, and b) not alienating moderates who are already on my side. Those are valid concerns, yes.

[Jub]

Hey, I'm in Canada too (same province, even). But I'm a US citizen, I follow US news, I live with people who follow US news, I vote in US elections, and I volunteer with Democrats Abroad. In fact, as a US citizen, I could argue that I have a greater responsibility to be informed about US news, so that I can act as an informed voter. So it isn't really something I can escape from. Then again, no one really can. We live in a globalized world, and Trump's trade war will mess with Canada's economy, and there are Trump supporters in Canadian politics, and Russia can target Canadian elections too, whether or not we're aware of it. You know that mass shooting in Toronto a few days ago? Committed with a gun from the US.

We're probably pretty close these days given that I'm in Van these days.

I agree that the situation down south does affect us but not being a US citizen there's less I can do about a lot of it. I vote federally and provincially, try to be strategic so the less of all evils gets in but I just don't have a lot more to give.

As to the larger question of appealing to moderates... I've had this argument a lot lately, but in my view, there aren't a lot of fence-sitters left, and people who are still with Trump after children in cages aren't going to be won over, unless they undergo a complete values shift or personality change. You don't want to alienate moderate Democrats and independents, but I don't think there's a huge pool of fence-sitters to win over at this point. This is going to be about turning out people already on our side. So constantly reminding people of what we're up against, and what the cost could be of losing, can help from that point of view. At least that's my thinking- some people obviously disagree.

I think you're wrong on that front. If you're not politically connected, burnt out, or just not a news watcher without much social media presence it would be easy to pass this all off as the usual hyperbole. Most people don't read past the headline and maybe the one sentence description and it's easy to skip past and not really process upsetting things if that's how you cope. These people aren't easy to reach but they exist and a million of them voting, even if they're spread out, and we're looking at a different election.

[The Romulan Republic]

Maybe. I usually converse with people who are relatively politically informed or active, so I may sometimes overestimate the average person's awareness of what is going on.

[Jub]

Maybe. I usually converse with people who are relatively politically informed or active, so I may sometimes overestimate the average person's awareness of what is going on.

It's easy to do that. Worldviews are often more opaque than we assume them to be.