2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

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MKSheppard
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-11-07 06:07pm

I-1639 passed in WA State.

Basically...
(25) "Semiautomatic assault rifle" means any rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.

"Semiautomatic assault rifle" does not include antique firearms, any firearm that has been made permanently inoperable, or any firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action.
There's a whole bunch of things in I-1639, like registration, permitting, etc etc. This should get interesting as this is basically template for "Generation III" gun control.
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Batman » 2018-11-07 06:21pm

What the hell has this got to do with the midterms?
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'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-11-07 06:22pm

Presumably it was one of the referendums that are usually also on the ballot, along with candidates?
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-11-07 06:41pm

Something that the world's finest detective (TM) could have discovered by googling I-1639
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Batman » 2018-11-07 07:03pm

Sure. America is heading Nazi Germany, is having an election that's going to decide if/how fast it does, but I'm naturally going to google Shep's latest gun control paranoia.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Exonerate » 2018-11-07 07:36pm

Pelosi's post-midterm speech really exemplifies the spinelessness of Democrats. Against a backdrop of voter suppression, court packing, domestic terrorism, blatant corruption, white supremacy, obstruction of justice, etc what does she do? Blathers on about "marketplace of ideas", bipartisanship, and not impeaching Trump. Apparently the motto of Democrats is "when they go low, we disarm!"

BoTM, MM, HAB, JL

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-11-07 07:51pm

A link would be nice.

In any case, Pelosi hardly represents all Democrats on this, thought I don't doubt that the Bernie-or-Bust/Burn It All/Both Sides/Trumper-in-Progressive-Clothing crowd will gleefully spin it that way. I can even grudgingly see the wisdom in not impeaching, because we don't have the votes to convict in the Senate, we won't before 2020, and trying to remove Trump and failing would risk giving the appearance of vindicating him.

But bipartisanship? Seriously? Was two years of inciting white supremacist terrorism, locking children in cages, sending troops to shoot refugees, and breaking every promise he makes not enough to cure her of "Maybe we can work with him"?

If that's how she's going to run things, it goes beyond stupidity. That is Quisling-esque. Give us two years of that, and we're at risk of just getting low turnout and an energized Bernie-or-Bust in 2020. In that case, I will be calling my new Congressman and asking him to support removing Pelosi as Majority Leader on the grounds that she is a gutless collaborator.

Edit: See, here's the thing- Bipartisanship, actual bipartisanship, is great. But you can't do that with extremists. Because the only "compromise" they will accept in the end is total capitulation. So yeah, if a bunch of Republicans spontaneously decide to do the right thing, sure. But to hell with "we give them what they want and they still refuse to meet us half-way and then call us a violent mob".

And compromising with Trump is simply insanity. You can't make deals with someone who will never keep them.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Mr Bean » 2018-11-07 09:09pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-11-07 07:51pm
A link would be nice.
I think it's This Speech
I'm trying and failing to find a transcript of it but it looks like the speech mentioned.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-11-07 09:16pm

Batman wrote:
2018-11-07 07:03pm
I'm naturally going to google Shep's latest gun control paranoia.
Sometime in 2019, unless SAF manages to get it blocked in court, these will be considered a "Semi Automatic Assault Weapon" by Washington State:

Image
Ruger 10/22

Image
Remington 740 Woodsmaster

And will require

Age 21 to buy anything semiautomatic.

10 day waiting period to buy anything semiautomatic.

Enhanced background checks added. (on top of NICS)

The dealer has to be notified in writing by the chief of police or sheriff in the jurisdiction of the purchaser's residence that the purchaser is eligible to own a firearm and that the application to purchase is approved.

You now have to take a State approved training/safety course, who knows what this will consist of . . . to buy anything semiautomatic.

Pay a fee not to exceed $25 (which means a $25 fee) so they can investigate you annually to see if you can keep your semiautomatic guns.

This was the actual ballot text in WA State:

Image

A lot of fudds are gonna be surprised next year. :angelic:
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Q99 » 2018-11-07 11:30pm

Exonerate wrote:
2018-11-07 07:36pm
Pelosi's post-midterm speech really exemplifies the spinelessness of Democrats. Against a backdrop of voter suppression, court packing, domestic terrorism, blatant corruption, white supremacy, obstruction of justice, etc what does she do? Blathers on about "marketplace of ideas", bipartisanship, and not impeaching Trump. Apparently the motto of Democrats is "when they go low, we disarm!"
So the people actually fighting and who just obtained a legislative wall in order to block them, and this is your take?

I really don't buy into the 'any time the dems say something that isn't fighty, undercut them,' angle of rhetoric.

Pelosi actually has a track record here, like it or not she's done more to fight Republicans than any of us, has made the Republicans tear their hair out plenty of times, and she's not going to throw us under the bus to appease Trump. I will note that Democrats can try tactical stuff too- like say 'bipartisan,' in order to get Republicans to drop their guard or appeal to moderates while legislatively stopping all she can.

I don't know how many times I've seen people cry wolf about supposed democrat betrayal that have turned out to be dead wrong- and considering the importance of not discouraging people in elections and not trying to convince them they have no good choices, I take calls of it with a handful of salt. We don't need to do the Republican's work for them.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-11-08 12:54am

I hope you're right, but the base needs to hold the leadership's feet to the fire. At minimum, make it clear that any Democrat who tries to cut deals with Trump on basic human rights and civil liberties, or the survival of the social safety net, or the survival and independence of the Russia investigations, will be primaried at the first available opportunity.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-11-08 02:22am

Another bright spot from last night: Dems now have a majority of state Attorney Generalships. Which means we have the means to aggressively sue/prosecute Trumpian criminal activity at the state level.

Really, while not the knock-out blow that we might have wished for, I'm feeling better and better about last night. We took the House. We didn't get the majority of state legislatures and governorships, but we narrowed the gap substantially, which will aid in countering gerrymandering in the future. Even the Senate will be at worst a loss of 3 more seats in a very challenging year for the Dems. in the Senate, and at best we break even (in the unlikely event that all outstanding races go Democrat). We got good candidates in across the country.

I suppose there's some frustration because its not over. Last night wasn't the fall of Trumpism, but it wasn't a route either. We held our ground, and managed not to get knocked out in the second round. Now is not the time for despair, nor is it the time to rest on our laurels. Now is the time to stay mobilized and go in swinging for 2020.

Edit: Also, last night was the highest percentage of turnout in a midterm since 1966, the first ever midterm to have over 100 million voters (at 113 million)... and still only 49% turnout:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/record-vot ... elections/

If we can keep building on that enthusiasm going into the next Presidential election, with its much more favourable Senate map (and keep the Republicans from completely gutting what's left of the election system in the meantime), we're in a pretty good spot.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Q99 » 2018-11-08 08:58am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-11-08 12:54am
I hope you're right, but the base needs to hold the leadership's feet to the fire. At minimum, make it clear that any Democrat who tries to cut deals with Trump on basic human rights and civil liberties, or the survival of the social safety net, or the survival and independence of the Russia investigations, will be primaried at the first available opportunity.
The presence of an enemy like Trump is already holding their feet to the fire, nor are they the type to consider giving up on basic rights and liberty or so on.

The idea that we need to grill our people is IMO a fairly self-sabotaging one. It's painting our people- whom we rely on to live right now in some cases- as worse than they are which affects enthusiasm and participation- and I note that it's a very constant buzz often very independent of people's voting records.

Earlier we were talking about Manchin, who votes conservative a lot and is the furthest right of all the Democratic senators, never does so on any deciding vote and has consistently been a boon if you care about the above issues, and now you're suddenly getting worried about Pelosi?


If you care about these issues, I think not engaging in baseless paranoia or the idea that the only way to help is to make our own representatives nervous and doubtful is a good first step. It's the Republicans we want confused and distracted, and Democrats do respond to positive reinforcement. Sending notes of cheer when they do something right is a better approach. As is, of course, voting in more lefties to rub shoulders with the existing ones.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Mr Bean » 2018-11-08 09:57am

Q99 wrote:
2018-11-08 08:58am


Earlier we were talking about Manchin, who votes conservative a lot and is the furthest right of all the Democratic senators, never does so on any deciding vote and has consistently been a boon if you care about the above issues, and now you're suddenly getting worried about Pelosi?


Yes Pelosi because unlike Manchin who at the end of the day is one vote among another 99 votes.
Nancy Pelosi on the other hand is a know quantity who has had the test of leadership before and failed in a similar situation. Do you recall the 2006 election and elevation of the Democratic party and all the indictments that came out of the Bush administration lieing us into a military conflict with Iraq? No you don't because one of the first things 2006 Nancy Pelosi let it be known was that Iraq was not a grievous sin to be atoned for but merely political fodder to hit the Republicans over the head with in 2008.

She has in that early leaked speech already indicated her stance has not changed. The Trump administration crimes are not crimes simply things for the Democratic party to run on in 2020. The first act of the Democratic party has already been declared the releasing of Trumps old tax returns not the unsealing of documents related with Trumps violations of the emoluments clause or his actions related to Russian in 2016 to present.

Why? Because two of those are legally actionable and one of those is merely embarrassing. And thus we are worried about Nancy Pelosi who represents a district so safe she almost always spends her election time campaigning elsewhere yet will continue to play things even more cautiously than Manchin does. Remember Nancy Pelosi has over twenty five years in the House she is a known poor quality. We've seen her record we've seen her actions and her initiatives.

Her goal is not to change things, it's to get re-elected.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-11-08 03:53pm

Latest news is that the Arizona Senate race may come down to absentee votes, Georgia Governorship could go to a runoff, and Florida Governorship (though conceded by Gillum) and Senate are both within the margin for a recount.

That's four big races we might have cleanly won on Tuesday if just a few more percent had turned out.

VOTING MATTERS.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by FireNexus » 2018-11-08 05:00pm

Your Periodic Reminder That Bernie Sanders Is A Fucking Dumbass
The Daily Beast wrote:Democratic officials woke Wednesday morning searching for answers as to why the party was unable to win several marquee Senate and gubernatorial races the night before.

But for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) the explanation was simple. The candidates who underperformed weren’t progressive enough; those who didn’t shy away from progressivism were undone, in part, by “racist” attacks.

“I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,” Sanders told The Daily Beast, referencing the close contests involving Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia and that ads run against the two. “I think next time around, by the way, it will be a lot easier for them to do that.”

Sanders wasn’t speaking as a mere observer but, rather, as someone who had invested time and reputation on many of the midterm contests. The Vermonter, who is potentially considering another bid for the presidency in 2020, mounted an aggressive campaign travel schedule over the past few months and endorsed both Abrams and Gillum. He also has a personal political investment in the notion that unapologetic, authentic progressive populism can be sold throughout the country and not just in states and districts that lean left.

Surveying the victories and the carnage of Tuesday’s results, Sanders framed it as a vindication of that vision. The candidates who performed well even in loss, he said, offered positive progressive views for the future of their states, including Gillum, Abrams, and Texas Democratic Senate candidate Beto O’Rourke. Those who were heavily defeated, Sanders said, didn’t galvanize young voters, people of color, and typically non-active voters.

“I think you got to contrast that to the votes of conservative Democrats who did not generate a great deal of excitement within the Democratic Party,” Sanders said, alluding to a host of Senate Democrats who lost re-election on Tuesday night. “Did not bring the kind of new people, new energy that they needed and ended up doing quite poorly. In admittedly difficult states. Missouri and Indiana are not easy states, but neither is Florida or Georgia or Texas.”

“You look at Beto O’Rourke. Running in you know, what is generally considered to be a red state,” Sanders added, in some of his first remarks on the Texas Democrat. “Enormous excitement. Enormous citizen participation, young people participation. Broke the bank in terms of small contributions that he got. Came within a hair of winning in Texas.”

Sanders’ explanation for Tuesday’s results is not universally shared among Democratic Party strategists, who have cited state demographics and fears of immigration as more determinative to the outcomes than a candidate’s progressive bona fides.

Senate Republicans built on their narrow majority with a net pickup of three seats on Tuesday, with a possible fourth in Florida, pending an anticipated recount. In the states Sanders referenced specifically, Indiana and Missouri, incumbent Senators Joe Donnelly (D-IN) and Claire McCaskill did close their campaigns by tacking to the middle and emphasizing their agreements with President Trump (all while still running on protecting insurers’ coverage pre-existing conditions). But one top Senate strategist insisted to The Daily Beast that their doing so actually kept the contests closer than they could have been.

Sanders, by contrast, credited Abrams with a “brilliant campaign” for her efforts to bring non-active Democratic voters into the electoral process. He marvelled at O’Rourke’s fundraising prowess, which allowed the Texas Democrat to raise $38 million in the third quarter of this year—the largest of any Senate candidate in history—and earn more than 48 percent of the vote against incumbent Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). And he noted that Gillum helped generate turnout that led to the successful passing of Amendment 4, which will restore voting rights to 1.5 million convicted felons in Florida.

“I think he’s a fantastic politician in the best sense of the word,” Sanders said of Gillum. “He stuck to his guns in terms of a progressive agenda. I think he ran a great campaign. And he had to take on some of the most blatant and ugly racism that we have seen in many, many years. And yet he came within a whisker of winning.”

As for the notion that race may have played a role in Abrams’ and Gillum’s defeats, the two did face racist robocalls in the campaign and Gillum’s opponent, soon-to-be Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, began his campaign by urging voters not to “monkey this up” by voting for his opponent.

The narrow losses did nothing to dissuade Sanders that he, or anyone else competing as a Democratic candidate for president in 2020, should write off perennial tricky states in the South, including Texas, a state that he believes could go blue in two years. “And let me tell you something else,” Sanders added. “I think the day is going to come sooner than later when states like Mississippi are going to become progressive states.”
Yes, all those non-racists who would rather vote for an explicit racist than a black person. :roll: Goddamn, can this fucking guy go back to sleeping on his friends’ couches already...
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Zaune » 2018-11-08 05:15pm

He's not entirely wrong. Some of the "I'm not racist but..." set actually believe their own rationalisations.
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by FireNexus » 2018-11-08 05:20pm

Zaune wrote:
2018-11-08 05:15pm
He's not entirely wrong. Some of the "I'm not racist but..." set actually believe their own rationalisations.
He’s entirely wrong. Because his statement is that it doesn’t necessarily make them racist. Just because they’re as stupid as he is doesn’t make him partly right. They’re just ignorant to their own racism. Being unwilling to vote for someone because of their race is racist.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-11-08 05:49pm

I do think that Bernie Sanders perhaps underestimates the chances of appealing to Trumpers by addressing economic concerns, and underestimates the extent to which they are motivated by bigotry and cult of personality.

That said, Bernie is a highly popular Senator who caucuses with the Dems, supports the Democrats on most issues, and is in no way a Trump supporter (in fact, he swiftly responded to the removal of Sessions by saying that interference with Mueller would be an impeachable offense), and I reiterate my view that Democrats constantly taking pot shots at Bernie Sanders and his supporters, and telling them to just shut up and go away, is destructive to party unity, and thereby aiding Trumpism every bit as much as the Bernie or Bust crap did.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


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I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by FireNexus » 2018-11-08 06:38pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-11-08 05:49pm
I do think that Bernie Sanders perhaps underestimates the chances of appealing to Trumpers by addressing economic concerns, and underestimates the extent to which they are motivated by bigotry and cult of personality.

That said, Bernie is a highly popular Senator who caucuses with the Dems, supports the Democrats on most issues, and is in no way a Trump supporter (in fact, he swiftly responded to the removal of Sessions by saying that interference with Mueller would be an impeachable offense), and I reiterate my view that Democrats constantly taking pot shots at Bernie Sanders and his supporters, and telling them to just shut up and go away, is destructive to party unity, and thereby aiding Trumpism every bit as much as the Bernie or Bust crap did.
OK. Bernie Sanders caucuses with the Democrats, and thinks that it’s not racist to vote against someone due to race. But he’s kind of popular with white people so we should never talk about it. Cool.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by FireNexus » 2018-11-08 06:42pm

And frankly, he’s going to run in 2020 and inevitably going to lose. Then we’ll be living 2016 again with him refusing to drop out of the race until too late, crying rigging, and spending the remainder of the campaign tepidly and inconcsistently stumping for the winner while giving backhanded compliments. But I’m definitely aiding Trumpism more than him and his die hard dumbasses by being mean to them.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by FireNexus » 2018-11-08 06:45pm

I’ll stop relitigating 2016 here, though.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-11-08 06:48pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-11-07 03:20pm
Colbert coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqBoCCleMz4
Steven Colbert wrote:In West Virginia, Democratic incumbent Joe Manchin has defeated Republican Patrick Morrisey. Manchin celebrated his victory by saying "Wait, I'm a Democrat?"
Edit: Also...
Steven Colbert wrote:And in New Jersey's Senate race, Democrat Bob Menendez, who is indicted... who is indicted for corruption and accused of underage prostitution, has defeated challenger Bob Hugin, proving you cannot keep a good man down, or Bob Menendez. Congratulations to the devil you know.
So that's two Democrats I don't think I could have voted for with a clean conscience, even this year. Better luck next primary.

That said... how hard do you have to fail to lose to a guy accused of child prostitution?
I will just point out the Manchin/Morrisey race was between a native Wvian, and an outsider who couldn't win a seat in his own home state. The Home-town Boy won, because we didn't want an Outsider. Also, Morrisey had pissed off a lot of folks with his actions as Attorney General.
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by Zaune » 2018-11-08 06:48pm

FireNexus wrote:
2018-11-08 05:20pm
He’s entirely wrong. Because his statement is that it doesn’t necessarily make them racist. Just because they’re as stupid as he is doesn’t make him partly right. They’re just ignorant to their own racism. Being unwilling to vote for someone because of their race is racist.
Maybe so, but lumping people who simply don't know any better in with the actual Nazis is not how you win friends and influence people. If their entire understanding of how non-white people think and act comes from Fox News because they've literally never met anyone outside their own race before, then at the very least they deserve a little slack for acting out of ignorance rather than malice. And maybe with a bit of tact and patience they will come to realise that their fears are irrational.

If progressives don't at least attempt to combat this sort of low-key, unconscious racism with education and outreach then they're certainly not going to be less vulnerable to radicalisation by the real hardcore racists. Hell, the ultimate logical conclusion of going down that route is to declare that the only good Republican is a dead one, and if we start thinking like that then Trump is the least of America's problems.
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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections Thread.

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-11-08 06:51pm

Also, sadly, Amendment 1 passed.
In plain terms, Amendment 1 is a change to the WV State Constitution limiting the availability of abortions, even in the case of Rape and Incest.
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