Texas school shooting happening now

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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 09:29am

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-05-19 09:06am
Even conceding that this specific incident could not have been stopped that's hardly Broomsticks point. As She's happy to say, she's been around for a long while and we've all seen many of these incidents happen, there's nothing about this one incident that proves 'nothing will change' it's just its the latest in the long string of incidents where nothing has changed because they've not stopped happening.
Yeah, basically that - we're averaging more than one school shooting a week this year and all we get from those allegedly in charge is "thoughts and prayers" which does exactly jackshit. Not to mention the "shooting score" given every Monday for the carnage in the streets of Chicago given just after the box office results at the movies.

I'm just disgusted. And discouraged.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 09:52am

The only real solution is to ban guns entirely in the US. But I doubt the significant enough majority wants this in the US. Having this sort of events the price many Americans are willing to pay for gun ownership.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Zaune » 2018-05-19 10:25am

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-05-19 09:15am
Honest question, as I've not seen anything specific to this: do we know he didn't have them locked up? If (for whatever reason) he knew where the key was / what the combination was, he could have stolen them from secured storage just prior to the shooting. If the father made a good faith effort to secure the guns, I'm not sure we can expect much more.

If he didn't, yeah, that's just dumb. Secure storage is mandatory up here in Canuckistan.
That's a fair question, and I don't suppose we'll get a definite answer until the trial. But still, you'd think people would bother to notice their teenage sons were going through a rough patch mentally and take some basic precautions against them doing something stupid when these incidents happen every damn week.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 10:36am

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 09:52am
The only real solution is to ban guns entirely in the US. But I doubt the significant enough majority wants this in the US. Having this sort of events the price many Americans are willing to pay for gun ownership.
As it would not only involve altering the document that is the basic foundation of the government as well as a massive change in American culture, no, a total ban is not going to happen. You don't even have a total ban in the UK. And based on other nations no, a complete ban is not actually what's necessary.'

The thing is that even in the US school shootings used to be rare. It's not JUST guns that are the problem here. Even if Q snapped his fingers and all the guns in the US vanished you'd still have all the underlying factors that feed the violence and it would still manifest some other way, with some other weapon(s).

Yes, there needs to be better gun control, but the underlying causes of this bullshit also needs to be addressed.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 10:45am

Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 10:36am
As it would not only involve altering the document that is the basic foundation of the government as well as a massive change in American culture, no, a total ban is not going to happen. You don't even have a total ban in the UK. And based on other nations no, a complete ban is not actually what's necessary.'

The thing is that even in the US school shootings used to be rare. It's not JUST guns that are the problem here. Even if Q snapped his fingers and all the guns in the US vanished you'd still have all the underlying factors that feed the violence and it would still manifest some other way, with some other weapon(s).
Whether they use to be rare or not doesn't matter. Things have changed, media exposure to such events have changed. Once someone has done this, there will be other copycats.

Also, violence caused by "underlying factors" is still mitigated by the fact that other tools of violence are less damaging than guns.
Yes, there needs to be better gun control, but the underlying causes of this bullshit also needs to be addressed.
Do you think it's possible for the US to really address the underlying causes of this bullshit? There's no political will to address the underlying causes, far less than the will to ban guns.

I don't believe banning guns is feasible in the US, but there is nothing that suggests alternative solutions are more feasible. I'm sorry, but this just feels like chickening out from making any meaningful solutions
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Zaune » 2018-05-19 10:52am

Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 10:36am
Yes, there needs to be better gun control, but the underlying causes of this bullshit also needs to be addressed.
If this is another "incel", I think that might be as difficult or more so than lobbying Congress to Tippex out the 2nd Amendment. Not only would that entail massively expanding access to mental health services but you've got to deprogram a terrifyingly high number of men and boys who base the entirety of their sense of self-worth around the amount of sex they're getting.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-05-19 10:55am

On the subject of underlying causes, this video is doing the rounds:



TL;DW: the news media are losing relevance, and blasting "Lookit this school shooter! Don't do this very bad thing that will get you 24/7 coverage for a week!" gets ratings. It also causes copycats, but who cares, that just makes sure we pay next month's bills too.

Forcibly regulating this probably can't happen due to guarantees on the freedom of the press, and self-regulation probably can't happen as it would accelerate the demise of cable news.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 10:59am

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 10:45am
Whether they use to be rare or not doesn't matter.
Yes, it does matter. Change matters, whether it's for good or ill.
Also, violence caused by "underlying factors" is still mitigated by the fact that other tools of violence are less damaging than guns.
Tell that to Oklahoma City.
ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 10:45am
broomstick wrote: Yes, there needs to be better gun control, but the underlying causes of this bullshit also needs to be addressed.
Do you think it's possible for the US to really address the underlying causes of this bullshit? There's no political will to address the underlying causes, far less than the will to ban guns.
Yes, it's possible, it just doesn't seem likely.
I don't believe banning guns is feasible in the US, but there is nothing that suggests alternative solutions are more feasible. I'm sorry, but this just feels like chickening out from making any meaningful solutions
Oh, fuck you - I'm not "chickening out", I'm fucking tired. I've been living in a blood thirsty society for over 50 years, I'm goddamned exhausted. So... again, FUCK YOU.

Political solutions aren't going to work, that's clear. It's going to have to be genuine grass-roots and that won't be for at least another generation.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Feil » 2018-05-19 11:18am

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-05-19 10:55am
TL;DW: the news media are losing relevance, and blasting "Lookit this school shooter! Don't do this very bad thing that will get you 24/7 coverage for a week!" gets ratings. It also causes copycats, but who cares, that just makes sure we pay next month's bills too.

Forcibly regulating this probably can't happen due to guarantees on the freedom of the press, and self-regulation probably can't happen as it would accelerate the demise of cable news.
Suicide coverage contributed to similar contagion of self-destructive violence in the late 80s. A broad multilevel push for changing (self-enforced) reporting standards was largely successful. This CDC report, for example. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm

That was then and this is now, but it did happen once.

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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 11:18am

Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 10:59am
Yes, it does matter. Change matters, whether it's for good or ill.
And we can't go back to the pre-constant media exposure to school shooting days.
Tell that to Oklahoma City.
Mass shooting will not be possible without guns. That should be obvious. There are other tools used by mass killers, but it's much easier to stop/run away from a person wielding a knife than a gun.

Yes, it's possible, it just doesn't seem likely.
Then it's basically the same as changing the 2nd amendment.
Oh, fuck you - I'm not "chickening out", I'm fucking tired. I've been living in a blood thirsty society for over 50 years, I'm goddamned exhausted. So... again, FUCK YOU.

Political solutions aren't going to work, that's clear. It's going to have to be genuine grass-roots and that won't be for at least another generation.
Being tired of it doesn't seem enough to push for any real change. There's been talks about other solutions to end school-shootings for years, and nothing has been implemented in the US.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-05-19 11:23am

ray245 wrote:Mass shooting will not be possible without guns. That should be obvious. There are other tools used by mass killers, but it's much easier to stop/run away from a person wielding a knife than a gun.
The employees at Vaguhn Food in Moore, OK would beg to disagree.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 11:27am

U.P. Cinnabar wrote:
2018-05-19 11:23am
ray245 wrote:Mass shooting will not be possible without guns. That should be obvious. There are other tools used by mass killers, but it's much easier to stop/run away from a person wielding a knife than a gun.
The employees at Vaguhn Food in Moore, OK would beg to disagree.
One dead and one injured being saved from death compared to dozens of dead in a school/uni shooting.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 11:35am

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 11:18am
Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 10:59am
Tell that to Oklahoma City.
Mass shooting will not be possible without guns. That should be obvious. There are other tools used by mass killers, but it's much easier to stop/run away from a person wielding a knife than a gun.
The incident I referenced resulted in 168 dead, 680 injured, and a building destroyed. It did not involve knives.
Being tired of it doesn't seem enough to push for any real change.
Again, FUCK YOU. You really do not understand what I am saying here.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 11:43am

Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 11:35am
The incident I referenced resulted in 168 dead, 680 injured, and a building destroyed. It did not involve knives.
Which is much rarer than school shootings.
Again, FUCK YOU. You really do not understand what I am saying here.
You're not proposing anything that is feasible in the American context. How is your idea of addressing the underlying cause any more realistic than repealing the 2nd amendment?
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 11:58am

Goddamn you, the point is I AM FUCKING TIRED OF STRUGGLING. I am exhausted by the violence in my society. That is the POINT. I am TIRED of this goddamned shit and your bleating about my personally not having an answer is not fucking helping. It's like setting off firecrackers next to someone with PTSD. I am run dry so stop expecting me personally to fucking do something about what I am not personally responsible for. Again, FUCK OFF. Just shut the fuck up. YOU aren't helping either.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 12:25pm

Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 11:58am
Goddamn you, the point is I AM FUCKING TIRED OF STRUGGLING. I am exhausted by the violence in my society. That is the POINT. I am TIRED of this goddamned shit and your bleating about my personally not having an answer is not fucking helping. It's like setting off firecrackers next to someone with PTSD. I am run dry so stop expecting me personally to fucking do something about what I am not personally responsible for. Again, FUCK OFF. Just shut the fuck up. YOU aren't helping either.
Your generational attitude is preciesly why there's no meaningful change. We've been hearing shit like there are other viable solutions other than an outright ban for years, including people in this forum. You want a half-ass middle point solution when there isn't one, at least not one that can be realistically implemented in the US.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Crossroads Inc. » 2018-05-19 12:43pm

You can't have mass gun shootings without guns
QED

You can have:
Terrorist bombings...
Knife attacks,
Chemical attacks

But you cannot have mass shootings. If anyone is "Seriously" tired of the violence, and kids shooting kids, then you need to be for deep gun restrictions. If you aren't then all you are doing is paying lip service and doing the equivalent of saying:
"My prayers are with you"
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-05-19 01:31pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 12:25pm
Your generational attitude is preciesly why there's no meaningful change. We've been hearing shit like there are other viable solutions other than an outright ban for years, including people in this forum. You want a half-ass middle point solution when there isn't one, at least not one that can be realistically implemented in the US.
Small problem: these arguments can be used for dealing with terrorists instead, and with better basis. Inclusive list of US school shootings, American deaths in terrorist attacks

Using the most restrictive numbers for terrorism (US citizen deaths within the US), and a shared window of 1995-2016:

Terrorism deaths/year: 149
Terrorism deaths/year excluding 2001 entirely: 17.6
School shooting deaths/year: 13

If school shootings are a reason to ban guns, then the US should do [insert rights-violating shit here] to protect people from terrorists. If we're going to say "but other gun crimes", then I'm going to point at Trump tweeting stupid shit about border walls and say "but other [insert group here]-caused crimes".
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 01:40pm

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-05-19 01:31pm
Small problem: these arguments can be used for dealing with terrorists instead, and with better basis. Inclusive list of US school shootings, American deaths in terrorist attacks

Using the most restrictive numbers for terrorism (US citizen deaths within the US), and a shared window of 1995-2016:

Terrorism deaths/year: 149
Terrorism deaths/year excluding 2001 entirely: 17.6
School shooting deaths/year: 13

If school shootings are a reason to ban guns, then the US should do [insert rights-violating shit here] to protect people from terrorists. If we're going to say "but other gun crimes", then I'm going to point at Trump tweeting stupid shit about border walls and say "but other [insert group here]-caused crimes".
While the right to bear arms is a consitutional right, it is not a universal human right. I'm more in favour of repealing the 2nd amendment once and for all if Americans truly want to put an end to gun violence. Would that stop all other forms of violence? Of course not. But it would limit gun violence.

Restricting Americans rights to bear arms is in no way comparable to throwing people(including legal American citizens caught up in the whole mess) back into hellholes. The fact you think they are even comparable shows how problematic the American psyche about gun-rights really is.

I'm very well aware that repealing the 2nd amendment is not possible. That does not mean you have grounds to make an argument that gun ownership is comparable to any sort of basic human rights.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Highlord Laan » 2018-05-19 02:06pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 12:25pm
Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 11:58am
Goddamn you, the point is I AM FUCKING TIRED OF STRUGGLING. I am exhausted by the violence in my society. That is the POINT. I am TIRED of this goddamned shit and your bleating about my personally not having an answer is not fucking helping. It's like setting off firecrackers next to someone with PTSD. I am run dry so stop expecting me personally to fucking do something about what I am not personally responsible for. Again, FUCK OFF. Just shut the fuck up. YOU aren't helping either.
Your generational attitude is preciesly why there's no meaningful change. We've been hearing shit like there are other viable solutions other than an outright ban for years, including people in this forum. You want a half-ass middle point solution when there isn't one, at least not one that can be realistically implemented in the US.
Do you have a fucking point, or are you just getting off on trolling? Nevermind, it's you, we all know the answer already.

The underlying social issues of America's violence problem won't be solved any time soon. They're ingrained and backed by people that profit off them. Meanwhile, we have a whole slew of people that start drooling like Pavlov's dogs whenever the media gives wall to wall coverage of a shooting for a week since it gives them more air time to act like their silver bullet solution would work.

Never mind that said people don't actually give a shit about guns, violence, or "gun violence." If they did they'd be more up in arms at the daily violence in inner cities and the constant low-level counterinsurgency police gang units face instead of only piping up when their precious suburban lives suddenly has reality ensue.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-19 02:08pm

Highlord Laan wrote:
2018-05-19 02:06pm
Do you have a fucking point, or are you just getting off on trolling? Nevermind, it's you, we all know the answer already.
See what Crossroads Inc. wrote. Anyone is who annoyed with people saying "they're tired of violence but not willing to embrace harsh gun control" is a troll now?
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 02:47pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 12:25pm
Your generational attitude is preciesly why there's no meaningful change. We've been hearing shit like there are other viable solutions other than an outright ban for years, including people in this forum. You want a half-ass middle point solution when there isn't one, at least not one that can be realistically implemented in the US.
Alright, fuckstick, what do you think I personally should do? C'mon, you're up on the soapbox now. It's not like I have an arsenal in my basement, I've never owned a gun (though I have considered it). I've voted for candidates for office who are pro-control, fuck all that did. What the fuck actual personal power do you think I have?
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Highlord Laan » 2018-05-19 02:51pm

Broomstick wrote:
2018-05-19 02:47pm
ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 12:25pm
Your generational attitude is preciesly why there's no meaningful change. We've been hearing shit like there are other viable solutions other than an outright ban for years, including people in this forum. You want a half-ass middle point solution when there isn't one, at least not one that can be realistically implemented in the US.
Alright, fuckstick, what do you think I personally should do? C'mon, you're up on the soapbox now. It's not like I have an arsenal in my basement, I've never owned a gun (though I have considered it). I've voted for candidates for office who are pro-control, fuck all that did. What the fuck actual personal power do you think I have?
Given that his stance is the same one I've seen from other people on forums like SB, I assume he thinks changing your forum avatar and making more passionate posts on facebook.
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 02:52pm

Highlord Laan wrote:
2018-05-19 02:06pm
Never mind that said people don't actually give a shit about guns, violence, or "gun violence." If they did they'd be more up in arms at the daily violence in inner cities and the constant low-level counterinsurgency police gang units face instead of only piping up when their precious suburban lives suddenly has reality ensue.
PLENTY of people "give a shit" about inner city violence, the problem is that those protests and people don't get air time, don't get publicity, don't have money, and don't have political power. I'm pretty sure ya'll missed out on the week-long protest after an ATF officer was shot on the South Side of Chicago and it was pointed out that FAR more time, money, resources, effort, and publicity were given to that non-fatal (albeit serious) shooting than to the dozen or so murders committed that same week in Chicago. Because the brutal truth is that the lives of the little people don't mean shit. They're expendable. They don't matter.

It is true the suburbanites only clutch their pearls (and guns) when their own lives and those of their children are at risk. Even more so for the wealthy elite
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

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Broomstick
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Re: Texas school shooting happening now

Post by Broomstick » 2018-05-19 02:56pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-19 02:08pm
See what Crossroads Inc. wrote. Anyone is who annoyed with people saying "they're tired of violence but not willing to embrace harsh gun control" is a troll now?
No, telling someone who has never owned a gun they're part of the problem of gun violence is being an asshole.

While I don't think a ban is politically possible in the US, I have numerous times spoken out in favor of far more controls and limitations than are currently in place. Your characterization of me as someone soft on gun control is what is trolling. You accusing me of "chickening out" and being a coward are trolling. Your doubling-down on me when I express exasperation about my own society is trolling.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

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