Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

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Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-02 07:33am

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/ ... t-backlash
After criticism of student Keziah Daum’s Twitter post showing her wearing the traditional qipao, Chinese commenters call it cultural appreciation, not appropriation

Keziah Daum, an 18-year-old from Utah in the United States, who has no Chinese roots, was accused of “cultural appropriation” after posting photographs on Twitter that featured her in a traditional Chinese qipao, or cheongsam.

The dress symbolised a silent protest to promote gender equality after the fall of the dynasties and the beginning of the republican period in the early 1900s, and was worn during the 1919 reformist May Fourth Movement.

Daum has stood by her decision to wear the dress, which was red and embroidered with gold and black, and told the South China Morning Post it projected a “wonderful message”. She has not deleted her original April 22 post.

She was not aware of the dress’ history before buying it at a vintage shop in Salt Lake City, she said in an email, but “simply found a beautiful, modest gown and chose to wear it”.

“One person commented it represented female empowerment,” she wrote. “If that is the case, then it is a wonderful message for any young woman my age to learn, regardless of culture and background.

“I posted photos for my friends to see. I never imagined it would go so far.

“I am sorry if anyone was offended. That was never my intention. I am grateful I was able to wear such a beautiful dress.”

One Twitter user, Jeremy Lam, had written: “My culture is not your ... prom dress.” The tweet generated more than 40,000 retweets, nearly 180,000 likes and thousands of comments on the social media platform.

“This isn’t OK. I wouldn’t wear traditional Korean, Japanese or any other traditional dress and I’m Asian,” another user wrote. “There’s a lot of history behind these clothes. Sad.”

But those commenting in mainland China were less opposed to Daum’s dress.

“Very elegant and beautiful! Really don’t understand the people who are against her, they are wrong!” one person commented on an article by Wenxue City News. “I suggest the Chinese government, state television or fashion company invite her to China to display her cheongsam!”

“It is not cultural theft,” another wrote. “It is cultural appreciation and cultural respect.”

Weibo users added that Daum looked beautiful and criticised those who have accused her.

“Culture has no borders,” one wrote. “There is no problem, as long as there is no malice or deliberate maligning. Chinese cultural treasures are worth spreading all over the world.”

The qipao is believed to have been adapted from the style of Manchu women in the Qing dynasty of 1644 to 1912. The tightly fitting modern version was created in Shanghai in the 1920s and made fashionable by socialites and the upper class.

It fell out of fashion between the 1950s and 1970s, as those who wore it were judged as being bourgeois in a time of anti-tradition movements, but has since regained popularity.

With the recent promotion of traditional Chinese culture, the dress now embodies the idea of being ethnically Chinese.

Peng Liyuan, China’s first lady and wife of President Xi Jinping, has worn a qipao several times on foreign visits.
I'm not sure anyone would seriously think wearing the qipao is some sort of cultural appropriation if they realised how recent it was created. If anything, Asian-Americans making claims that no cultural clothing can be worn by another ethnicity is counter-productive imo. It basically entrenched western-originated clothings as the only acceptable "cross-cultural"/global clothing in the world.

The qipao is not a religious clothing that is only worn on rare occasion. It's a 1920s popular dress meant for formal occasion. It's basically an invented tradition.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-02 08:18am

Most of the people who cry foul about cultural appropriation don't care about the actual origins of the things they are alleging are being appropriated. It can often seem like a sort of well meaning racism, asserting that cultures must always be pure and separate and unsullied by foreign hands.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by AniThyng » 2018-05-02 08:24am

There is also apparently a subsection of Chinese/Chinese diaspora netizens that have huge chips on thier shoulders at the existence of Asian women who date white men, calling them basically race traitors, and that Asian men are systematically emasculated by white popular culture. They too see this "appropriation" as mockery, it seems...
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Zixinus » 2018-05-02 08:47am

So the problem was that she wore a dress she found in a thrift-store?
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by LaCroix » 2018-05-02 08:53am

There is no cultural appropriation, only cultural apprechiation.
People wear clothes because they like them.

Now, if someone was to wear a certain type of clothes and claiming (wrongly) to be part of and speak for that culture group, or to mock them, that would be something completely different. But wearing something does not carry any inherent statement apart from "I think this looks rad".
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-05-02 08:54am

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-02 08:18am
Most of the people who cry foul about cultural appropriation don't care about the actual origins of the things they are alleging are being appropriated. It can often seem like a sort of well meaning racism, asserting that cultures must always be pure and separate and unsullied by foreign hands.
To expand on this, I see way more problems with the person who posted "My culture is not your prom dress" being a guy than a non-Asian girl wearing a qipao to the prom because she thought it was a nice dress. On top of that, it's pretty heavily implied that the guy is American, which makes Chinese culture as much "his" as Irish culture is mine.

The way I see it, appropriation in a vacuum is a neutral concept. It becomes negative when it's done with malice, or for the purpose of mocking the culture or profiting off of it.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by AniThyng » 2018-05-02 09:15am

Civil War Man wrote:
2018-05-02 08:54am


On top of that, it's pretty heavily implied that the guy is American, which makes Chinese culture as much "his" as Irish culture is mine.

I don't think it's quite so far removed for 2nd or even 3rd generation Chinese diaspora though? I get the impression that there are a not insignificant number of American Chinese that consider their distinct Chinese cultural background to be far more important than it would be for Americans of European ancestry.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-02 09:30am

What really annoys me is Asian-American assuming their own discourse and viewpoints are representative of a universal Asian viewpoint. Many "traditional" Chinese custom are relatively modern and are designed for mass market consumption. Chinese cultural artifacts should not be understood in the same manner as many sub-Saharan African or Polynesian cultures cultural artifacts.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-05-02 10:12am



Ok, ok, why am I showing a clip of the 2002 rendition of Spiderman? Look at what Mary Jane Watson (Kirsten Dunst) is wearing. It looks like a qipao to me. This kind of stuff already happened. More than a decade ago.

Personally paying homage to something because you like it isn't insulting. Dressing up in Asian clothing to mock Asians would be inappropriate and that's when it becomes cultural appropriation.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-05-02 10:40am

“This isn’t OK. I wouldn’t wear traditional Korean, Japanese or any other traditional dress and I’m Asian,” another user wrote. “There’s a lot of history behind these clothes. Sad.”
Man, I have heard of and even seen some fantastical racism between those noted Nationalities. There's a lot more history behind them besides "clothes."
It fell out of fashion between the 1950s and 1970s, as those who wore it were judged as being bourgeois in a time of anti-tradition movements, but has since regained popularity.
This is funny because when I started reading about this, my first joke thought was "Man, how shitty it is all these other cultures DARE wear the blue jeans of my people!?" I started laughing more when I read this because Jeans kind of went from a working person clothing, to a rebellion against fashion, to becoming a fashion statement around the 1920s or so, which put it's in opposition to the Chinese dress.

Let's face it, this isn't black-face. There's degrees here even in something like that. She didn't glue/tape her eye into slants or anything of that nature. This is pretty evidently either a positive display of another culture or completely "I just saw a nice dress and I look hot in it."

But hey, another example of the Internet making mountains our of mole-hills. One guy says "I don't like the thing" and other people repost it, and it make the situation really look worse than it is. I'm sure a lot of it was white people getting offended on behalf other cultures.

Let's make this Star Wars related: I never heard of anyone of kicking down doors due to the "Jedi Robes."

Sidenote: I wish my wife would wear shit like this. Not the Jedi Robes.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-02 11:16am

AniThyng wrote:
2018-05-02 09:15am
I don't think it's quite so far removed for 2nd or even 3rd generation Chinese diaspora though? I get the impression that there are a not insignificant number of American Chinese that consider their distinct Chinese cultural background to be far more important than it would be for Americans of European ancestry.
It does mostly seem to be a diaspora issue.

China doesn't give a shit (as noted in the link and article in the OP from a Chinese news site).

I think there is a strong argument that the attitudes to Chinese culture and modes of thought of Chinese Americans are closer to all the other Americans than they are to mainland Chinese. Which does throw the argument from ownership of that culture into relief.

It's not just that Chinese Americans consider their cultural background more important than European Americans do, but that they consider their Chinese cultural background more important to protect from ousiders than Chinese people do

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-02 11:23am

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-05-02 10:40am
“This isn’t OK. I wouldn’t wear traditional Korean, Japanese or any other traditional dress and I’m Asian,” another user wrote. “There’s a lot of history behind these clothes. Sad.”
Man, I have heard of and even seen some fantastical racism between those noted Nationalities. There's a lot more history behind them besides "clothes."
Asian is a useless term for people living in Asia. The idea of a pan-Asian identity is very much more of an Asian-American construct than someone that reflects the mindset of people still in Japan, China, Taiwan and so forth.

Asian-Americans needs to get out of their American-bubble if they want to form a meaningful cultural discourse.

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-02 11:16am
AniThyng wrote:
2018-05-02 09:15am
I don't think it's quite so far removed for 2nd or even 3rd generation Chinese diaspora though? I get the impression that there are a not insignificant number of American Chinese that consider their distinct Chinese cultural background to be far more important than it would be for Americans of European ancestry.
It does mostly seem to be a diaspora issue.

China doesn't give a shit (as noted in the link and article in the OP from a Chinese news site).

I think there is a strong argument that the attitudes to Chinese culture and modes of thought of Chinese Americans are closer to all the other Americans than they are to mainland Chinese. Which does throw the argument from ownership of that culture into relief.

It's not just that Chinese Americans consider their cultural background more important than European Americans do, but that they consider their Chinese cultural background more important to protect from ousiders than Chinese people do
And those Chinese Americans can fuck off if they try and claim to be representative of Chinese culture as a whole. The Chinese diaspora is very fragmentary and diverse. An "overseas Chinese" in Malaysia and Singapore are very different from Chinese-American. And the aims of someone from China, Taiwan and Hong Kong are very different from what the Chinese Americans want.

People from China very much want Americans to adopt more things from Chinese culture. It's a cultural bargaining chip that is beneficial to the various Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwanese ( and to some extend Singaporean) governments.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-02 11:33am

It's not dissimilar to the crying about Matt Damon being in Great Wall.

Much was made about it being a "White Saviour" story from people who hadn't seen the film and didn't look particularly deeply into who was making it and so didn't realise it was actually "Cast a Hollywood name to sell our mainstream Chinese movie overseas".

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-05-02 12:06pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-02 11:23am
Asian is a useless term for people living in Asia. The idea of a pan-Asian identity is very much more of an Asian-American construct than someone that reflects the mindset of people still in Japan, China, Taiwan and so forth.
Eh... can't blame them too much. You're not going to deal with "yellow face" or negative national stereotypes on the mainland. So I can see how some asian-americans get bent out of shape out it and I can't blame them. You might need something to rally around in the face of racism.

If THEY tried wearing that dress, it'd be like "Go home <insert slur here>" or "I guess you WOULD wear that" kind of deal. But a white girl can do it and there's nothing really said about it as a matter of course.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-05-02 12:12pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-02 11:33am
It's not dissimilar to the crying about Matt Damon being in Great Wall.

Much was made about it being a "White Saviour" story from people who hadn't seen the film and didn't look particularly deeply into who was making it and so didn't realise it was actually "Cast a Hollywood name to sell our mainstream Chinese movie overseas".
What got me in on this was white people getting offended on behalf of Mexicans for Speedy Gonzales. Is he a racist depiction of a Mexican (or I guess nationalistic)? Pretty much. But I couldn't find a single hispanc action group (or person) that didn't view him as a (one of very very few) extremely positive depictions of a Mexican character even if he's a walking (running, really) stereotype.

Meanwhile, Netflix has a "Lead Latina Actress" category in 2018 where very. single. fucking. show. is "gets into dealing drugs."

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-05-02 12:33pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-05-02 12:06pm
ray245 wrote:
2018-05-02 11:23am
Asian is a useless term for people living in Asia. The idea of a pan-Asian identity is very much more of an Asian-American construct than someone that reflects the mindset of people still in Japan, China, Taiwan and so forth.
Eh... can't blame them too much. You're not going to deal with "yellow face" or negative national stereotypes on the mainland. So I can see how some asian-americans get bent out of shape out it and I can't blame them. You might need something to rally around in the face of racism.
I've noticed a similar-ish phenomenon in my reading regarding African-Americans, actual Africans, and pan-Africanism. In general pan-Africanism tends to be a concept held by Americans of African descent rather than Africans themselves. I mean... if you think about it, it's about as silly as say, pan-Caucausianism, pan-Europeanism, or whatever. It's basically an useless umbrella term that doesn't really do anything but make people feel good about identifying with a whole continent rather than a specific people group or country.

I get that people like being able to identify with a group, and particularly with African-Americans I can understand not being able to know exactly where you come from given the history they have in the US and thus simply identifying with more or less the whole continent as some sort of mythic ancestral homeland. Though if you want to go far enough back we ALL probably come from Africa... anyway. My beef is mostly that it's too easy. Too casual. Africans themselves, by and large, don't identify at all as pan-African. It's only just now, fifty-odd years or so after the end of colonialism, that a strong national identity is starting to form in most countries there; they aren't very far at all from their past tribal allegiances.

That said, I honestly don't know if you would get the same reaction from a white person wearing traditional African garb. Certainly there'd be cries of cultural appropriation here and there, but I think African garb or knockoffs thereof have been floating around American culture since the 70s-ish. Dashiki are probably the best known example. Asian garb on the other hand, less so perhaps.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-05-02 12:53pm

AniThyng wrote:
2018-05-02 09:15am
I don't think it's quite so far removed for 2nd or even 3rd generation Chinese diaspora though? I get the impression that there are a not insignificant number of American Chinese that consider their distinct Chinese cultural background to be far more important than it would be for Americans of European ancestry.
I'm only 4th generation myself (my mother's paternal grandfather was from Northern Ireland), and while I do feel a natural affinity towards it, I'm not so presumptuous to think that Irish culture is "mine." I reserve the right to think that assholes who "celebrate" Saint Patrick's Day because they want an excuse to day-drink are assholes, but I feel the same about white people during Cinco de Mayo. To me, getting angry at this girl for wearing a qipao to the prom, when she's not doing anything to mock or disparage Chinese people, feels akin to getting angry at a Chinese person who is listening to The Pogues because they like the music.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-05-02 02:04pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-02 12:33pm
I get that people like being able to identify with a group, and particularly with African-Americans I can understand not being able to know exactly where you come from given the history they have in the US and thus simply identifying with more or less the whole continent as some sort of mythic ancestral homeland. Though if you want to go far enough back we ALL probably come from Africa... anyway. My beef is mostly that it's too easy. Too casual. Africans themselves, by and large, don't identify at all as pan-African. It's only just now, fifty-odd years or so after the end of colonialism, that a strong national identity is starting to form in most countries there; they aren't very far at all from their past tribal allegiances.

That said, I honestly don't know if you would get the same reaction from a white person wearing traditional African garb. Certainly there'd be cries of cultural appropriation here and there, but I think African garb or knockoffs thereof have been floating around American culture since the 70s-ish. Dashiki are probably the best known example. Asian garb on the other hand, less so perhaps.
I think we just forget that the specific form of racism YOU encounter isn't what the person over the pond does, if they encounter any. It's been years, but I recall a prominent Chinese celebrity taking flak because they said something to the effect of "American's aren't racist, no one has treated me different since I've been over here." It might have been Jet Li, but that doesn't feel like it. Maybe Yao Ming. And Chinese American groups came out and said "duh, you're a fucking celebrity, you don't 'live' here."

But man can white Americans get offended by about anything. Years back my (then girlfriend) wife posted a picture of me wearing a sombrero at a party and some woman from California (why were they even friends?) went into "This is of course how Texans handle racial acceptance." Which started a mini-shitstorm until my friend (who was Hispanic) posted that HE WAS THE ONE who traded my cowboy hat for his sombrero.

Of course, not long after the trade I ask him "why the fuck do you even own this? Give me back my hat." Whatever, I didn't get involved since I never posted on shitbook. But hey, if I DID want to wear a sombrero, what the fuck is the big deal? "Mexican" isn't a damn race. TEXANS WERE MEXICANS! In fact a fairly large portion of white Texans wanted to stay part of Mexico, but they also still wanted slaves and to tell the Feds to fuck off.

But no man, some dumb drunk Texan in a sombrero is serious race baiting or something.

My stupid rant aside, people need to get the fuck over the idea that what THEY deal with at THAT point in time in THEIR area is how shit is 100% of the time everywhere. If I could, I'd go every Halloween as Mace Windu. I mean, I COULD do that since I saw a guy in blackface win a costume contest dressing up as the Crackhead from the Chapelle show. A fight almost broke out until 4 black guys intervened and said they put him up to it because he was last in the fantasy football draft (I guess that's a thing). But still, Texas man.

I just need more black friends. I've only got like 2. Then again.... that's like 90% of the non-family I interact with. Shit... I need to make some more friends.

But still, like say I dress up as Shaft with no blackface. People seriously going to blow a fuse over that? Probably because the Internet can always produce someone ready to be offended. And their delicate sensibilities are prime to be retweeted or shared on other social media.

I think I've just been around racists too long. I've had to have two different conversations with people who make fun of "Black Cowboys." "They think they're rednecks." And shit like "they're stealing our culture" as kind of a jab at the idea. Then I've had to say "You know black and Hispanic cowboys were like... a really big thing. Especially in Texas." And I just get these blank stares. Yes, there were shitloads of black cowboys. In fact, even during the civil war, while all the white guys were off killing each other SOMEONE (mostly black slaves, who afterward had job skills to work as cowboys after the war) had to heard cattle if only because (I think I'm right on this one) barbed wire had yet to be invented.

EDIT: caught myself ranting then started ranting again. I'm just that damn good.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-02 03:23pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-05-02 12:06pm
ray245 wrote:
2018-05-02 11:23am
Asian is a useless term for people living in Asia. The idea of a pan-Asian identity is very much more of an Asian-American construct than someone that reflects the mindset of people still in Japan, China, Taiwan and so forth.
Eh... can't blame them too much. You're not going to deal with "yellow face" or negative national stereotypes on the mainland. So I can see how some asian-americans get bent out of shape out it and I can't blame them. You might need something to rally around in the face of racism.

If THEY tried wearing that dress, it'd be like "Go home <insert slur here>" or "I guess you WOULD wear that" kind of deal. But a white girl can do it and there's nothing really said about it as a matter of course.
Their so-called rally is just entrenching the western/American dominated cultural thinking across the world. It's these kinds of stupid arguments that resulted in people living in tropical Southeast Asia having to wear a full suit and tie for formal and professional events. Asian-Americans are culturally American more than anything else. What they've done is to simply reinforce their American cultural assumptions and thinking onto the rest of the world.
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-02 12:33pm
I've noticed a similar-ish phenomenon in my reading regarding African-Americans, actual Africans, and pan-Africanism. In general pan-Africanism tends to be a concept held by Americans of African descent rather than Africans themselves. I mean... if you think about it, it's about as silly as say, pan-Caucausianism, pan-Europeanism, or whatever. It's basically an useless umbrella term that doesn't really do anything but make people feel good about identifying with a whole continent rather than a specific people group or country.

I get that people like being able to identify with a group, and particularly with African-Americans I can understand not being able to know exactly where you come from given the history they have in the US and thus simply identifying with more or less the whole continent as some sort of mythic ancestral homeland. Though if you want to go far enough back we ALL probably come from Africa... anyway. My beef is mostly that it's too easy. Too casual. Africans themselves, by and large, don't identify at all as pan-African. It's only just now, fifty-odd years or so after the end of colonialism, that a strong national identity is starting to form in most countries there; they aren't very far at all from their past tribal allegiances.

That said, I honestly don't know if you would get the same reaction from a white person wearing traditional African garb. Certainly there'd be cries of cultural appropriation here and there, but I think African garb or knockoffs thereof have been floating around American culture since the 70s-ish. Dashiki are probably the best known example. Asian garb on the other hand, less so perhaps.
There's a level of cultural arrogance among minority-Americans in assuming they are the representative of all those regional cultures as a whole. Being an Asian-American of Japanese descent does not give you the right to speak on behalf of all East Asians or all those of Chinese descent. The cultural discourse in the US between ethnicity is just plain problematic and damaging to the rest of the world.

"Asians" has never been a uniform, regional identity the same way "whites" are. Hell, even southeast Asians don't identify as a community the way Americans assume. A Singaporean-Chinese would identify more so with a Taiwanese or Hong Konger than someone from Thailand.

America isn't the world despite what silly Americans think. Ethnic-minority experience in the US does not and cannot speak for the rest of the world.
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-05-02 03:44pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-02 03:23pm
"Asians" has never been a uniform, regional identity the same way "whites" are. Hell, even southeast Asians don't identify as a community the way Americans assume. A Singaporean-Chinese would identify more so with a Taiwanese or Hong Konger than someone from Thailand.
Hell, even white is not a uniform identity even in the US. In my experience, the only white people who have whiteness as a core part of their identity are racist. Most white Americans I know identify themselves along ethnic (Irish, Italian, French, etc) or regional (Texan, New Yorker, Californian, etc) lines.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-05-02 03:54pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-02 03:23pm
"Asians" has never been a uniform, regional identity the same way "whites" are. Hell, even southeast Asians don't identify as a community the way Americans assume. A Singaporean-Chinese would identify more so with a Taiwanese or Hong Konger than someone from Thailand.
Can you expand on this because I really don't have any issue with the rest of your argument, but I'm going to take a shot at this, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing your point. I recall an except I read back in college from a Japanese historian around WW2 and his adamant stance against getting involved in the war. Because he said something to the effect of "anyone who willingly enrages the white man does so at his own peril, because when he's not busy honing his killing skills against his own brother, he's more than adept at killing those different than him."

He basically called the white race out as being ridiculously good at killing each other over extremely minute details in "whiteness." And you even see it in other areas such as no one today would say the Irish aren't white, but that was a big issue back in American history. And whites HAVE always seemingly just started killing each other over stupid bullshit. And "regional" can mean county lines. Not to say other races aren't just as prone to this, but the white race seemingly dominated this whole idea so hard, rather large amounts of real-estate and time have been affected.

So, if I had to sum up my stupid line of thought, I could just give an example: a bunch of white religious assholes ran over and helped fuck up the entirety of North America because another group of religious white assholes were giving them too much bullshit.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-02 04:14pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-05-02 03:54pm
Can you expand on this because I really don't have any issue with the rest of your argument, but I'm going to take a shot at this, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing your point. I recall an except I read back in college from a Japanese historian around WW2 and his adamant stance against getting involved in the war. Because he said something to the effect of "anyone who willingly enrages the white man does so at his own peril, because when he's not busy honing his killing skills against his own brother, he's more than adept at killing those different than him."

He basically called the white race out as being ridiculously good at killing each other over extremely minute details in "whiteness." And you even see it in other areas such as no one today would say the Irish aren't white, but that was a big issue back in American history. And whites HAVE always seemingly just started killing each other over stupid bullshit. And "regional" can mean county lines. Not to say other races aren't just as prone to this, but the white race seemingly dominated this whole idea so hard, rather large amounts of real-estate and time have been affected.

So, if I had to sum up my stupid line of thought, I could just give an example: a bunch of white religious assholes ran over and helped fuck up the entirety of North America because another group of religious white assholes were giving them too much bullshit.
The idea of a "white" race have existed as a concept within a variety of western countries, but most notably in places that were built as settler-colonies. Even if "whites" disagree about who exactly is "white", the fact that it exists as an articulated concept ( with legal institution supporting this ideology) meant it is far more defined as an imagined community than "Asian".

If you're still having issues with what I am saying: Basically "Asian" exist as a negative-construct. It only exists the same way "barbarians" exist. It's not an idea constructed by people living in Asia because they all shared some common identity or shared cultural heritage. It's an imposition by people outside of Asia. "White" community, on the other hand, is internally defined.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Vendetta
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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-02 05:23pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-05-02 04:14pm
The idea of a "white" race have existed as a concept within a variety of western countries, but most notably in places that were built as settler-colonies. Even if "whites" disagree about who exactly is "white", the fact that it exists as an articulated concept ( with legal institution supporting this ideology) meant it is far more defined as an imagined community than "Asian".

If you're still having issues with what I am saying: Basically "Asian" exist as a negative-construct. It only exists the same way "barbarians" exist. It's not an idea constructed by people living in Asia because they all shared some common identity or shared cultural heritage. It's an imposition by people outside of Asia. "White" community, on the other hand, is internally defined.
Somewhat. But it's mostly defined in places some way away from Europe/Russia where all the white people come from.

In Europe there's no real sense of shared whiteness, and the people who are likely to act like there is are actually defining "white" as "white and also my nationality". Like the main scares about immigration in England are about the wrong type of white people immigrating from eastern europe.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-02 05:39pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-02 05:23pm
Somewhat. But it's mostly defined in places some way away from Europe/Russia where all the white people come from.

In Europe there's no real sense of shared whiteness, and the people who are likely to act like there is are actually defining "white" as "white and also my nationality". Like the main scares about immigration in England are about the wrong type of white people immigrating from eastern europe.
All the more reason to treat American cultural discourse as being worthless on a world stage. I find many of the cultural discourse in the US, while being suited to the US, extremely reductive on a global scale. It reduces vast ethnic groups into a collective regional identity that has no meaningful value outside of the US (and maybe other settler colonies like Canada, Australia and so forth).
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

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Re: Chinese dress at US prom wins support in China after internet backlash

Post by Soontir C'boath » 2018-05-02 09:51pm

I have no problem with this. The young lady just found it in a thrift shop after all. We have allowed the suit (pantsuit) to perpetuate pretty much everywhere in the world. I wouldn't mind if it was push back the other way, but on our terms and that's the important part.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."

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