9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

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9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Tribble » 2018-04-23 06:37pm

So ya, this happened today:

9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto
Pedestrians hit near Yonge Street and Finch Avenue shortly before 1:30 p.m.
CBC News · Posted: Apr 23, 2018 1:38 PM ET | Last Updated: 27 minutes ago


Nine people are dead and 16 others are injured after a van struck a number of pedestrians Monday in the Yonge Street and Finch Avenue area of North York in Toronto.

One suspect is in custody.

Toronto police Deputy Chief Peter Yuen told reporters police have mobilized all available resources and that officers expect to be at the scene for a number of days to come.

"This is going to be a long investigation," Yuen said. There were numerous witnesses and surveillance cameras in the area, he said.

The Toronto Transit Commission, meanwhile, has suspended Line 1 subway service between Sheppard and Finch stations and has said no shuttle service will be available.

Police were called to the Yonge and Finch area for a report of a crash around 1:30 p.m. after a van mounted the curb and hit pedestrians on the sidewalk before being stopped by police.
"There were a lot of pedestrians out enjoying, a lot of witnesses out enjoying the sunny afternoon," Yuen said. Police are establishing two hotlines — one for victims and their families, and the other for witnesses to call in information related
to the incident.
A witness said separately that he had seen at least four bodies lying covered on the ground and that the people hit included a man who was crossing the street and others on the sidewalk.
In a tweet, Sunnybrook Hospital said 10 victims were transported to its trauma centre. Two of those are among the dead, while five are in critical condition, two are in serious condition and one is in fair condition. The hospital's emergency department has been locked down as a precaution, it said.
In a statement, Ryder, the company from which the van was rented, said it was co-operating fully with authorities.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale said he cannot confirm whether the incident is being treated as a terror attack.
"There is no information available to me at the present time that would indicate a change in the risk level," Goodale told reporters in Toronto, where he is attending the G7 foreign and security ministers meeting.

Meanwhile, Mayor John Tory said his office was being updated by Toronto Fire Service, Toronto Paramedic Services, the TTC and the acting city manager.
"My thoughts are with those affected by this incident and the frontline responders who are working to help those injured. I have offered any and all assistance that the city can provide to police to help this investigation."
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau expressed condolences as he was heading into question period in Ottawa. He said he was just learning of the incident. "Our hearts go out to everyone affected."
Trudeau said he would have more to say in the coming hours.

Amir Bahmeyeh, a student, was in the area at the time the pedestrians were struck.
"I saw the crazy van, like a rental van, hitting the people … one after one," he said. "I'm sure it was like a terrorist attack because he drove really fast, like crazy.
"I almost had a heart attack. When I came here people told me it was a safe country and that's why I stayed here," said the student, who said he'd come from Iran.
"Now, I saw the accident, maybe I go back my country," he said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p ... -1.4631564

Not confirmed yet but apparently the suspect was known to police and it was likely a terrorist attack; it was definitely no accident. Also kudos to the police for managing to take the suspect alive.

I will update later as more information comes out. I'm sticking to Canadian media as it is generally less speculative and sensational than our American counterparts.

My thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Eulogy » 2018-04-23 07:37pm

My guess is was a particular sort of utter cunt who wanted suicide by cop and though this was the best way to get it.

Bet he's regretting it right about now.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-23 08:10pm

Eulogy wrote:
2018-04-23 07:37pm
My guess is was a particular sort of utter cunt who wanted suicide by cop and though this was the best way to get it.

Bet he's regretting it right about now.
May he have many years in a small cell to reflect on the futility of his life.

No confirmation yet on motive? I suppose its too much to hope for that this was just a suicidal nut bag with no larger political implications that can be used to justify sweeping xenophobia or authoritarianism.

Canada's not as bad as America in that respect, but we aren't immune to it either, sadly.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Tribble » 2018-04-23 08:21pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-04-23 08:10pm
Eulogy wrote:
2018-04-23 07:37pm
My guess is was a particular sort of utter cunt who wanted suicide by cop and though this was the best way to get it.

Bet he's regretting it right about now.
May he have many years in a small cell to reflect on the futility of his life.

No confirmation yet on motive? I suppose its too much to hope for that this was just a suicidal nut bag with no larger political implications that can be used to justify sweeping xenophobia or authoritarianism.

Canada's not as bad as America in that respect, but we aren't immune to it either, sadly.
No motive as of yet as far as I can tell, though there are only a couple of reasons why someone would plow into a bunch of people like that on purpose.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-04-23 08:38pm

As we've all found out the hard way, treat all personal information about the perp within the first 24 hours as gossip regardless of the claimed sources, and treat it as unconfirmed for the first 72 even if it's "confirmed" by someone. I've seen a half-dozen theories about the guy flying around, and at least five of them must be wrong.

Damned good show by the cops arresting him, though. There's video of the guy trying to get the cops to shoot him, and they weren't having any of it.
Officer: Come on get down.

Suspect: Kill me.

Officer: No get down. Get down.

Suspect: I have a gun in my pocket.

Officer: I don't care get down.

Suspect: I have a gun in my pocket.

Officer: Get down, get down or you'll be shot.
Sounds like it's up to 10 dead now.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-04-24 12:25pm

Dammit, media. Stop falling for obvious hoaxes.

1) make a fake Facebook screenshot on your phone showing a 4chan copypasta
2) take a photo of your phone with something else
3) set it loose on the internet
4) make it to a national news outlet
5) laugh

Please stop.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Lagmonster » 2018-04-24 12:49pm

While it may or may not have been a motive, CBC reports that they contacted Facebook and confirmed that the "incel" post was real before Facebook took it down. What makes you think it's a hoax?

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-04-24 02:13pm

Lagmonster wrote:
2018-04-24 12:49pm
While it may or may not have been a motive, CBC reports that they contacted Facebook and confirmed that the "incel" post was real before Facebook took it down. What makes you think it's a hoax?
The usual 'chan shitposters were spamming it around, and it follows the template of 4chan copypastas (Incel Rebellion, Chads and Stacys, Supreme Gentleman, and Elliot Rodger are all common memes over there), so I was assuming (durr) that with that meme density, and 4chan trying to get everyone to swallow bait after the last few mass casualty events, that it was bait.

If this is a real post, I'm revising my assessment to tryhard memery being mistaken as a serious political statement, as unless this guy was completely bugfuck crazy (beyond what it takes to pull such a stunt), I have extreme difficulty believing anyone would make such a post in a serious way.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-24 06:21pm

The Toronto police force appears to have conducted themselves in an exemplary manner in this case, yes.

I'd really prefer that there be no ideological motive to exploit here, beyond "random nut job".
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-25 05:12pm

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-04-24 02:13pm
Lagmonster wrote:
2018-04-24 12:49pm
While it may or may not have been a motive, CBC reports that they contacted Facebook and confirmed that the "incel" post was real before Facebook took it down. What makes you think it's a hoax?
The usual 'chan shitposters were spamming it around, and it follows the template of 4chan copypastas (Incel Rebellion, Chads and Stacys, Supreme Gentleman, and Elliot Rodger are all common memes over there), so I was assuming (durr) that with that meme density, and 4chan trying to get everyone to swallow bait after the last few mass casualty events, that it was bait.

If this is a real post, I'm revising my assessment to tryhard memery being mistaken as a serious political statement, as unless this guy was completely bugfuck crazy (beyond what it takes to pull such a stunt), I have extreme difficulty believing anyone would make such a post in a serious way.
If there is one thing we ought to have learned from the political dialogue of the last few years, its that no matter how stupid, crazy, or petty something is, there are people who seriously believe it. Sadly, I have zero difficult believing that there are people out there who regard "Incel" shit as a serious political ideology (although really, from what I can tell, its just typical male entitlement and misogyny given a rebranding).

I suppose the question now is weather we regard Insel shit as an ideological motive for the purposes of defining this as a terrorist attack. So far the authorities don't seem to be classing it as one, but I can't help but think that if this guy had been a Muslim and posted on Facebook calling for Jidhadi rebellion and praising Supreme Jihadi Bin Laden, there wouldn't be any doubt as to what people would call it. The only real difference is if you don't consider "Insel" an actual ideological motive. But hell, there are equally pathetic things that people take deadly seriously (like Jihadism, for example).
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Wild Zontargs » 2018-04-25 07:13pm

If he's cuckoo for cocoa puffs enough to believe that /r9k/ meme shit is serious (honestly, they're >greentext central), then I'd expect that if it wasn't being an incel, he'd have found some other group to attach himself to and use as an excuse.

Humor aside, I suspect this guy has serious psychological issues, especially if the bits about him "meowing" to himself and biting people at random are true.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-25 08:08pm

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-04-25 07:13pm
If he's cuckoo for cocoa puffs enough to believe that /r9k/ meme shit is serious (honestly, they're >greentext central), then I'd expect that if it wasn't being an incel, he'd have found some other group to attach himself to and use as an excuse.
Quite possibly, though I wouldn't be surprised if that's true for most terrorists. Angry, frustrated people looking for something to validate their grudges, someone else to blame, and an excuse to engage in violence.
Humor aside, I suspect this guy has serious psychological issues, especially if the bits about him "meowing" to himself and biting people at random are true.
Well, yeah, he's obviously nuts, whatever ideology he may had.

A lot of these lone mass killers are like that: raging lunacy wrapped in a cloak of pseudo-ideological excuses.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Zaune » 2018-04-26 04:57am

As someone who's spent a lot of my life failing to score with attractive women and experienced intense shame and self-loathing as a result, "incels" have my pity... up to a point.

Unfortunately, the few times I've tried to engage with self-proclaimed incels I've discovered that depressingly few of them are willing to engage in a little introspection and ask themselves if they could or should be doing something different, but instead choose to blame literally anyone and everyone except themselves. And while I get that some people end up ostracised and worse for no better reason than having some non-mainstream hobbies and not having the sense to keep quiet about them, if you're not willing to accept that social success is a two-way street then you're in a hell of your own making.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Vendetta » 2018-04-26 05:39am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-04-25 08:08pm
A lot of these lone mass killers are like that: raging lunacy wrapped in a cloak of pseudo-ideological excuses.
Conversely, almost no mass killers actually have a diagnosed or diagnosable mental condition.

It's easy for us to set up psychological barriers between ourselves and people who do extreme things by labelling them "crazy", because it stops us thinking too hard about real causes.

I suspect much more likely is that this guy had relatively little social contact in real life and got drawn into a social circle online that normalised abusive and violent attitudes to women. With no countervailing attitudes being presented the distance between him and thinking this sort of thing was an appropriate thing to do got smaller and smaller until he did it.

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-04-26 03:20pm

The thing is, "absolutely bonkers" isn't a diagnosable mental condition. That doesn't mean it's sanity.

Most psychiatric diagnosis guidelines focus on specific behaviors, not on "is generically evil." That has a lot of virtues, but among its vices is that it isn't really suitable for identifying cases where a politically aligned idee fixee causes someone to become convinced they need to do terrible things in the outside world. Or to differentiate between people who are 'merely fanatical' and, well, bonkers.
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Ralin » 2018-04-26 11:27pm

Wild Zontargs wrote:
2018-04-24 02:13pm
(Incel Rebellion, Chads and Stacys, Supreme Gentleman, and Elliot Rodger are all common memes over there),
They're also pretty common memes on actual incel websites and forums.

I've been reading a mock thread of quotes from one on the SomethingAwful forums. I don't recognize the Supreme Gentleman bit, but otherwise those are all pretty common terms they throw around. Turns out that it's a thing with them to capitalize the letters 'e r' in words like "winnER' as a tribute to their hero.

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Soontir C'boath » 2018-04-26 11:35pm

So apparently incel was suppose to refer to people who have trouble interacting and being intimate with the opposite sex and was originally coined by a woman a couple decades ago. She is now not happy the term has taken on new meaning. Guardian
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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Soontir C'boath » 2018-04-27 10:49am

I should rephrase the above as having trouble getting laid in general.
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Vendetta » 2018-04-27 03:27pm

Though it’s probably actually an unhelpful term because it puts sex ahead of any other normative relationship. The problem with internet self diagnosed “Incels” is that they don’t have friendships with women not just that they can’t get their dicks wet.

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-04-27 04:51pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-04-27 03:27pm
Though it’s probably actually an unhelpful term because it puts sex ahead of any other normative relationship. The problem with internet self diagnosed “Incels” is that they don’t have friendships with women not just that they can’t get their dicks wet.
I think a major part of the problem is that many of the said self-diagnosed "Incels" have zero interest in any relationship with women beyond getting their dicks wet.

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by Vendetta » 2018-04-28 03:21am

Civil War Man wrote:
2018-04-27 04:51pm
Vendetta wrote:
2018-04-27 03:27pm
Though it’s probably actually an unhelpful term because it puts sex ahead of any other normative relationship. The problem with internet self diagnosed “Incels” is that they don’t have friendships with women not just that they can’t get their dicks wet.
I think a major part of the problem is that many of the said self-diagnosed "Incels" have zero interest in any relationship with women beyond getting their dicks wet.
If that were true, there are any number of professionals who could help them with that for reasonable compensation.

It isn't though because sex is a relatively small part, if any at all, of the social validation they feel they aren't getting. It's not about sex, it's about the social validation of being seen as "successful with girls".

Again the irony being that if they had actual friendships with women they might actually get the success they aren't. But that would require recognising the basic humanity of women and/or other people not like themselves, and staying out of negative reinforcement loops of the kind that aggressive and hostile "Incel" communities develop.

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Re: 9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians 'one after one' in north Toronto

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-29 04:50pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-04-28 03:21am
Civil War Man wrote:
2018-04-27 04:51pm
Vendetta wrote:
2018-04-27 03:27pm
Though it’s probably actually an unhelpful term because it puts sex ahead of any other normative relationship. The problem with internet self diagnosed “Incels” is that they don’t have friendships with women not just that they can’t get their dicks wet.
I think a major part of the problem is that many of the said self-diagnosed "Incels" have zero interest in any relationship with women beyond getting their dicks wet.
If that were true, there are any number of professionals who could help them with that for reasonable compensation.
Seeing women as only good for sex, and thinking having to pay them for it is beneath you, are hardly incompatible positions.
It isn't though because sex is a relatively small part, if any at all, of the social validation they feel they aren't getting. It's not about sex, it's about the social validation of being seen as "successful with girls".
That's probably right.
Again the irony being that if they had actual friendships with women they might actually get the success they aren't. But that would require recognising the basic humanity of women and/or other people not like themselves, and staying out of negative reinforcement loops of the kind that aggressive and hostile "Incel" communities develop.
Yeah. They probably do bring it largely on themselves. I mean, if women aren't having sex with these guys, it probably just shows that said women have good instincts as to who to avoid.
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