Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

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Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Soontir C'boath »

For the most part, wages are still too low for many people across the country where the majority make less than $30k. It is a joke that a blip of a rise would "overheat" the economy.

The Atlantic
The Dow Jones Industrial Average has fallen by 1,000 points only twice in its 122-year history. The first time was Monday. The second was Thursday.

There are two points to make about this. First, stocks have had a miserable week. The Dow erased nearly $3 trillion in wealth with a 10 percent plunge that officially qualifies as what’s called a market “correction.”

Second, stocks have had a marvelous decade. The Dow has thousands of points to lose because it has accumulated thousands of points in the last few years, quadrupling since 2009. With this latest collapse, the index of 30 stocks has fallen way, way back to levels not glimpsed since the dystopian hellscape of … Thanksgiving 2017.

So, what’s this all about? The stock market is a synthesis of stories about the future, a global anthology of investors’ financial predictions. When stocks rise steadily with little volatility—as they have for the last few years—it suggests widespread agreement on the world’s economic narrative. For a long time, the story went that corporate profits were rising in global unison for the first time in years, as both inflation and interest rates stayed low, creating a relatively risk-free environment for equities.

Then, rather suddenly, the story changed. On Friday of last week, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced that wages had grown by 2.9 percent over the previous 12 months, a record high for the current expansion. This seems to have triggered fears that higher wages chasing a finite number of goods and services would lead to higher prices and furthermore that higher prices would encourage the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to combat inflation.

Just as low interest rates had buoyed stock prices for years, the fear of rising interest rates has the opposite effect, inspiring a “flight to safety” as traders switch from stocks to fixed-income investments, such as government bonds. As investors scrambled to move money from equities to bonds, many traders who had bet against this sort of volatility—through a (now controversial) financial instrument, called XIV, that essentially allowed people to place wagers on continued calmness in the markets—were nearly wiped out. It all led to the worst nominal loss in the history of the Dow.

And that was just Monday. On Tuesday and Wednesday, stocks whirled like a plastic bag in a hurricane, at one point recovering most of their losses. Then, on Thursday, everything fell apart all over again in the midst of a crowded news cycle, as China’s trade surplus narrowed, and Republicans announced their plan to pass a deficit-swelling budget.

The significance of this week’s market gyrations can be stated simply: There is no reason to believe that this is the beginning a global financial crisis. Nor is there reason to believe this is the foreshadowing of a U.S. recession. Assigning monocausal blame for soaring or plunging stocks is a rough business, but what happened this week is in all likelihood a tizzy over inflation.

But if markets are afraid of inflation, they are fearing a ghost. Ever since the 2008 financial crisis, warnings of incipient inflation have been both persistent and wrong. The Federal Reserve has routinely aimed for 2 percent inflation in the years following the housing crash, and its aim has been routinely low. In 2016 and 2017, wage growth accelerated for lower-income Americans. But annual growth in “core personal-consumption expenditures”—the Fed’s most commonly used inflation measure—was 1.7 and 1.5 percent in those years. Wages perked up a bit. Prices didn’t.

If investors are afraid of the Fed’s approach to inflation, it is ironic that this season’s research note from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis is titled “Why is inflation so low?” “The U.S. inflation rate has been below the Fed’s 2 percent inflation target since 2012,” the paper begins, going on to cite “several reasons to be concerned about very low inflation,” such as the risk of a recession caused by falling prices, or deflation. This isn’t a purely American phenomenon, either. The world has been trapped for years in a steady state of low price growth. In 2017, annual inflation across the rich countries that make up the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was just 1.7 percent.

Is this story about to change? Nobody knows. But one data point of 2.9 percent wage growth is just that: one point of data. It’s not proof that wages are taking off. It’s certainly not proof that accelerating wage growth is driving up prices. For now, it’s just a statistic, yet it seems to have helped trigger a frenzy of fear across global markets that inflation—that ever-feared and never-appeared boogeyman—will finally materialize.

For years, stock prices have inflated in part due to constraints on labor costs. Now at the slightest sign that labor costs might themselves be inflating, equities seem to be crashing for fear the central banks might rein in their support of economic growth. That’s quite a shame. If investors are wary of central bankers because they think bankers are wary of labor’s gains, it sets up a dynamic where capital specifically defines risk-free success by its capacity to restrain the prospects of labor. Capitalism may be the best flawed economic system out there, but is it any wonder that more Americans are starting to doubt that it’s working?
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Just gonna quote this
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https://twitter.com/MkBlyth/status/960902339954642944

Also a new podcast from him out I haven't heard yet but i bet it contains stuff on the this backslide.
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I longterm invest in index funds (100 euros a month) so I guess this is a good time to add a little extra.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by K. A. Pital »

Just the overlords freaking out that someone may get more crumbles from their table, and mass-panicking as they do in such cases. "SELL SELL SELL".

Routine thing, as in "sky is blue".
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Gaidin »

My favorite part of this whole thing were people were trying to micromanage their retirement plans all through last week and trades on things like that were up 12 times higher than normal as the market was falling. And during the times the market was having its little upshoots they didn't make anything back. I can't ever help but wonder if people remember how long term a retirement plan is supposed to be and just...you know...forget the password during events like these?
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Broomstick »

Yeah.

I have a 401(k) and a very few stocks in a separate account. I just ignored the reports of the sky falling and sat tight. My only regret is not currently having a bit of money and the required research under my belt to buy low on this downswing, but I'm just sitting tight.

The talking heads are ignoring that even with this plunge stocks are up for the recent past. When it comes to stocks, what goes down goes up again.

But then, most people are idiots when it comes to money, especially in my country.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Esquire »

Yeah - who could have foreseen that constant manic growth isn't, you know, sustainable? Who, I ask?
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by aerius »

Esquire wrote: 2018-02-11 11:20am Yeah - who could have foreseen that constant manic growth isn't, you know, sustainable? Who, I ask?
Ya think? When governments, central banks, and the financial industry among others have spent the past 10 years blowing massive bubbles to cover their losses in the last crash, it's only going to end one way. What we got last week was a warning, something in the market imploded and they're trying to contain the damage, in other words, finding bag holders for their dog shit.

I'll put it this way. I went through the 2000 tech crash and the 2008-2009 crash and came out ahead on both. I'm sitting this one out, I'd rather fuck a hooker with AIDS than stick my dick into this market.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Rogue 9 »

Oh, that's bullshit. The correction can be laid directly at the feet of the tax plan that just passed. The huge stock jumps we've been seeing are the result of corporate stock buybacks, which have been at record highs, partially because of the tax cuts making more money available, which companies have been using to buy back their stock. But it also ballooned the deficit, which has caused long term interest rates to go up, making less money available for stock buybacks since most public companies have a lot of loans on their balance sheets... so stock prices go down.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Simon_Jester »

Honestly, I can't decide if "the stock market hiccuped because wages increased" is a right wing talking point designed to bullshit wages down, or a Poe's Law artifact of left-wingers trying to smear the stock market's reputation.

The stock market hiccuped because the stock market hiccuped, which it naturally tends to do after chugging a whole price boom/bubble/explosion over an extended period of years. Trying to attribute the hiccup to any single thing that happened in the recent past is a losing game, especially since there are dozens of competing stimuli all pushing in opposite directions. It's like trying to figure out which butterfly in the Amazon to blame the hurricane on. Rogue 9 may be right, or someone else may be right, or they may both be right, or neither, and just from looking at a graph of the Dow Jones no one can realistically tell; one would have to look at other indicators.

Insofar as the market crash came after a wage increase, it would probably be related to an underlying cause- long term economic growth has both pumped up stock prices and pumped down unemployment, and low unemployment drives higher wages.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Dragon Angel »

Simon_Jester wrote: 2018-02-12 11:36amHonestly, I can't decide if "the stock market hiccuped because wages increased" is a right wing talking point designed to bullshit wages down, or a Poe's Law artifact of left-wingers trying to smear the stock market's reputation.
Come again?

I'm curious what you'd say have been "smears" to the stock market.

Anyway, this talking point seems so far away from usual leftist discourse that I can only imagine it being said in an extremely ironic context, so I doubt it's such an artifact in any case...
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Simon_Jester »

Well, honestly it's a very uncharitable interpretation, I made the mistake of posting while grumpy. But basically the core premise "high wages are the cause of a faltering stock market" implies an antagonistic relationship between the stock market and wages that doesn't necessarily exist. From what I understand, insofar as there's an antagonistic relationship, it's between stock prices and other underlying factors, some of which contribute to higher wages and some of which don't.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by LadyTevar »

I will point out there's a lot of 'Bots using algorithms to make trades on Wall Street now, and the DOW dropped that fast and that low because the algorithms were all triggers for the 'Bots to Sell high, and then attempt to buy them back low.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Elheru Aran »

^ Following on to that: One has to wonder how that will affect future drops. Are they going to re-jigger things so the bots don't sell quite so quickly? Are they going to give them more of a hair-trigger? Are the bots going to cause even worse crashes in the future by entering a self-perpetuating cycle of selling and buying?

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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Aether »

It just wasn't an increase in wages. Investors (including plebes like me) panic all the time. The increase in wages, inflation, the tax breaks, quarterly reports, the phase of the moon...

I didn't immediately sell, but I did set up a trailing stop loss on all stocks where I have a majority of my money placed. I figured the Dow would continue to slide and then recover as it already has.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Pelranius »

I imagine the real correction will come around next year or so. Probably 2022 at latest.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I do not understand why anyone would invest their money in the damn stock market, or at least no more than I understand the compulsion to gamble in general. If I wanted to risk what little money I have like that, I could go bet on a horserace or something.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Zwinmar »

Meanwhile, I know Walmart is trying to get rid of third shift, as well as cutting supposedly excess jobs.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-18 06:36pm I do not understand why anyone would invest their money in the damn stock market, or at least no more than I understand the compulsion to gamble in general. If I wanted to risk what little money I have like that, I could go bet on a horserace or something.
Long term, it's the best + most consistent ROI compared to the majority of legal, liquid investment options. It massively outperforms gov.bonds , it's far less risky (and less capital intensive) than real estate, and has far better ROI than putting it in your local bank at negative interest (0.5 interest with ~2.5% inflation = lose money).
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Eh, call me overly cautious, but I'd rather take a more certain, if less lucrative option than one that depends on semi-random stock market fluctuations that I freely admit I have a very limited understanding of.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by K. A. Pital »

Far less risky than real estate? *laughs* Which econ school teaches that? I would love to know, so that I know where to tell my friends to never set their foot in.
TRR wrote:Eh, call me overly cautious, but I'd rather take a more certain, if less lucrative option than one that depends on semi-random stock market fluctuations that I freely admit I have a very limited understanding of.
The problem with "less lucrative" options is that you are bound to lose money if the ROI falls below inflation - which often happens to be the case with very "safe" investments, nevermind the maintenance etc. fees that happen regardless of which instrument you happen to invest in.

However, the stock market is pretty much an amalgamation of capital as such, in its purified monetary form, and therefore it remains among the very few things consistently growing. The core law of capitalism is that capital increases itself. Which is why capital remains the most profitable investment, so as long as capitalism keeps functioning.

Now, it is not true that all banks have negative interest, but the First World collectively has a very easy monetary policy and suffers from what was previously though to only be a Japanese problem (neglible growth, neglible inflation and, well, neglible investment returns outside th stock market, a static but precarious economy fuelled only by a massive debt bubble). In the developing world you could still try to invest classically (bank, interest, all that), but the options are closing down. Across-borders banking is now actually harder than ever.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by The Romulan Republic »

K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-02-19 01:14pm Far less risky than real estate? *laughs* Which econ school teaches that? I would love to know, so that I know where to tell my friends to never set their foot in.
Did I say that? I''ll acknowledge that real estate risks losing money too. My money (little though it is) sits in my home or in the bank, though perhaps I should look into government bonds.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by K. A. Pital »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-19 01:18pm
K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-02-19 01:14pm Far less risky than real estate? *laughs* Which econ school teaches that? I would love to know, so that I know where to tell my friends to never set their foot in.
Did I say that? I''ll acknowledge that real estate risks losing money too. My money (little though it is) sits in my home or in the bank, though perhaps I should look into government bonds.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I think I misread you, yeah.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Aether »

The Grim Squeaker wrote: 2018-02-19 08:59am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-18 06:36pm I do not understand why anyone would invest their money in the damn stock market, or at least no more than I understand the compulsion to gamble in general. If I wanted to risk what little money I have like that, I could go bet on a horserace or something.
Long term, it's the best + most consistent ROI compared to the majority of legal, liquid investment options. It massively outperforms gov.bonds , it's far less risky (and less capital intensive) than real estate, and has far better ROI than putting it in your local bank at negative interest (0.5 interest with ~2.5% inflation = lose money).
I wouldn't call that "losing" money unless the interest rate itself is negative; e.g., $100 deposit decreases due to a -1% interest. Put it another way, the bank is charging you to simply store your cash (see Japan). The purchasing power of the dollar (or any fiat currency) simply decreases with inflation. That affects everyone and you cannot write that off as an investment loss.
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Re: Stock Market Drops 1000 Points Because of Increase in Wages

Post by Patroklos »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-19 01:18pm
K. A. Pital wrote: 2018-02-19 01:14pm Far less risky than real estate? *laughs* Which econ school teaches that? I would love to know, so that I know where to tell my friends to never set their foot in.
Did I say that? I''ll acknowledge that real estate risks losing money too. My money (little though it is) sits in my home or in the bank, though perhaps I should look into government bonds.
So you are planning on saving yourself to retirement, with no mechanism to counteract inflation? Surely you have something going on besides this?
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